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Title: Plan ''Daisy'' - (The Suppressed Document at LibertyForum.org)
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Published: May 28, 2005
Author: WindRiverShoshoni
Post Date: 2005-05-28 08:35:42 by toddbrendanfahey
Keywords: LibertyForum.org), Suppressed, 'Daisy'
Views: 491
Comments: 69
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#1. To: Zipporah, Jethro Tull, 1776, wbales, RidinShotgun, Burkeman1, Zoroaster, h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t, HOUNDDAWG, mugwort, Diana, rowdee, Eoghan, gengis, gandhi, griper, D_Joyce, lightmind, orangedog, TommyTheMadArtist, rattler, Don, BrianS, NOLAJBS (#0)
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intersting post. i will say this....I was once sympathetic to the israelis, and the jews at large. now, after witnessing what they are all about, they've simply become what they feared....national socialists. to hell with all of them. anyone who follows a psychotic, racist, genital mutilating, animal sacrificing, jackass 9th density dipshit god is fucked up from the word go anyway. jackass desert alien sure knew how to manipulate the idiots (allah and jehovah are one in the same-violent, racist, juvenile shit, i'll worship a fucking tree before i sign up for that goatfuck.
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anyone who follows a psychotic, racist, genital mutilating, animal sacrificing, jackass 9th density dipshit god is fucked up from the word go anyway. jackass desert alien sure knew how to manipulate the idiots (allah and jehovah are one in the same-violent, racist, juvenile shit, i'll worship a fucking tree before i sign up for that goatfuck. Wow. That's some screed. Blasphemous as hell. You've fallen into a dark place. Perhaps it all started with this illogic: I will say this....I was once sympathetic to the israelis, and the jews at large. now, after witnessing what they are all about, they've simply become what they feared....national socialists. First, all Jews aren't about the same thing. And, though an elite few may be 100 proof satanic evil, most certainly aren't. Assigning the guilt of a relative few to an entire group is just plain stupid. That would be like someone calling me a Jew-hating bigot just because I happened to be "white" like you (assuming you are "white" like me). Come back into the light, ghengis. Don't let the evil some do poison your mind and transport you to exactly the same mental slum in which they dwell. You could become what you claim to hate if you aren't careful.
This tells me you hit the nail on the head. I believe this article and the research that you've brought here. Thanks.
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My communication to "Senator" Kay Bailey Hutchison. I have just visited your official web presence and am appalled at the photo at the bottom with the headline "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS." Every time I see this piece of banality, I want to puke! The time to support the troops is when we are not at war by diplomatic means that does justice to the Constitution and our founding fathers. What passes for diplomacy and statesmanship, today, is the same product that issues forth, in the outhouse, when solid matter fails to pass. How dare you jump up and down, while waving your little Chinese made flag, and tell us to "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" when you utterly failed them by voting to send them off to fight a war in support of Israel, George Bush (the King of Liars) based on a pack of easily provable lies. Then, you have the audacity to tell Texans, and the American people, the troops are fighting for our freedom. Madam, if they were fighting for our freedom, they would be in Washington DC with rope for you and your colleagues. You, collectively, have done more harm to liberty than the entire Moslem world could ever hope to do. MP Calloway had it right in his address to that piece of puke committee of the Senate. He did more to represent the American people that all of you put together. Dennis Joyce PS; to the staffer who will read this, I expect to hear from the Senator, personally. She is the one claiming to represent me, not you.
Hmm.. quite
interesting.. Now how could ONE person possibly be physically able to post that
often ..impossible ..has to be one identity for many people.
excellent, Dennis! I need to send you some of my 'Bring 'em Home' ribbons.
I have a couple questions about the implied tracing techniques, if anyone can answer? (I've copied Mr. Nuke Buzzcut as he may know about the sepcific posters in question, and Neil for his generic understanding of forum servers) The original (now edited) post in question is here at LF #900002 I presume WindRiverShoshoni is the post author and hence references to 'I' and 'my' are to LF poster WindRiverShoshoni. So, assuming Daisy11 is not an identified poster on WindRiverShoshoni's website, and Daisy11 is a poster on LF who (like the rest of us) simply loads a thread from LF's website, then while graphics (or webbugs) might be downloaded from WindRiverShoshoni's website to anyone (including Daisy11) who browses a LF- hosted thread into which WindRiverShoshoni embedded a graphic (via 'img' tags), how could WindRiverShoshoni know which IP (anonymized or not) requesting the webbug is associated with Daisy11? How does WindRiverShoshoni know what IP address is associated with the LF poster Daisy11? So, why does WindRiverShoshoni expect Network Tracer to always return identifying information? Firewalls (if fully enabled) block all of it.
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Todd, if your LF is still open, forward the questions to WRS at his LF private message account. I know he still checks them and responds from time to time...
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Correction: Well, I went to Arin for each of the cited IP address and got an ISP and abuse email and techncial contract address. Further, firewalls block ping requests and prevent messaging to BIOS and other ports.
What I don't understand, there are tons of forums out there, why would Israelis spy on these forums? Not enough people read them to make any difference, unless they are busy collecting names and addresses of those they deem as not friendly enough towards Israel or their neocons in this country running the show.
That's how I read it. You're right that there is no immediate & direct info linking a log entry for a particular IP to a screen name on another site, but some conclusions might be made based on circumstantial evidence over time, like seeing one IP access a thread repeatedly over time. There is room for detective work.
After reading through this fairly and objectively, there is still some room to investigate. However... If you watch Free Republic, LibertyPost, Liberty Forum, DemocraticUnderground, and just about ANY forum, you will see almost the exact same behaviors exhibited. I'm not anti-semitic. I'm not anti-jew. I'm not anti-Israel. What I am, is a guy who pays taxes to my government, and they are making bad decisions with that money. The people of America, ARE A BANK. We are loaners of currency. We are the guarantor of the debts of our government. We have been turned into a bank, by the powers that be. We are the people being robbed at gunpoint by people who claim to be our servants. THEY ARE NOT. They freely give away stolen money to people who neither need it, or deserve it. Israel has been in existence for over 50 years. A country, and its people should be able to stand on their own FROM CONCEPTION. We did it in 1776. WE STOOD AGAINST THE BRITISH. WE STOOD ON OUR OWN. Israel, with all the enemies it has, can stand on its own too. The problem is, there are people who believe that Israel should be babied, coddled, and taken care of like a child whose in their 50's living in their parent's guest house, not contributing a fucking thing. They don't even mow their own grass if you get the metaphor. Israel, like every other country we dole out cash to, should be repaying the people of this country. REPAY YOUR DEBTS TO AMERICA GODDAMN YOU. If I have to pay my paltry Student Loan Debt, then by God Every country that has borrowed BILLIONS should be paying back the people of this country who loaned it to them. The BANK OF AMERICA, THE PEOPLE OF AMERICA ARE THE SAME THING. Israel needs to stand on its own, and repay the debt it owes us.
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From reading about this .. this is my take.. it seems that those who use graphics or icons have those graphics linked to a site of theirs.. they can see the IPs of those viewing those graphics and are able to see who replied to particular threads or posts.. by the time/date ..so the person who revealed this did the same thing as those he's saying were involved in this plant daisy.. I suppose he/she saw that certain people had icons/images linked to a particular site.. and did what they did in reverse.. ?
4 has a much better signal to noise ratio. Anybody doubting that 'Team Judeo' is not as represented in this article is naive.
If Daisy11 replies to a comment that contains the picture, the url will be different from the thread url, and there will be a close timestamp to narrow it down. This is a very common practice. When I see someone with an avatar on a forum that doesn't have them built in, or a clearly experienced poster who is using an avatar (a very dork-newbie device, really), you can assume they're using it to snoop. FR's Sabertooth is a good example. Some forums automatically append text to tell you the number of images in a post. If you see This post contains 1 image(s) under a post that seems to have no images, the poster could have inserted a plain tranparent gif, or one that looks like a period, trying to bait posters who might otherwise avoid replying to a sneak.
This post contains 1 image(s) under a post that seems to have no images, the poster could have inserted a plain tranparent gif, or one that looks like a period, trying to bait posters who might otherwise avoid replying to a sneak. Hmm never thought about transparent images.. interesting.
hmmmm...very interesting and the transparent image usage?
It has occurred to me that those inserting avatars may be doing this type of logging. Coral Snake and Sabertooth both did a lot of that kind of thing. One thing about images though. Normally they are only loaded once by a given browser and not loaded again for that session. Browsers generally don't retrive the same image twice. You can see this happening with the 4um graphic. Compare it's appearance when you first visit the site vs clicking on other links on the site. That hampers attempts to trace a particular user's navigation of the site, though there may well be tricks to get around that. 4um's software does report the number of images in a given post, so any transparancy posts would be detectable by anyone reading the thread. I've thought of adding a feature to shut off images in the user setup, which would replace the images with links to click on that would bring them up.
go back and read the bible, the OT, then read the Koran, and get back to me. you have a 'god' that, as a burning bush, is racist (the chosen ones), jealous, angry, advocates genital mutilation (called circumscion, there, ace) and BLOOD SACRIFICE. But I guess it's different when it's the culture YOU come from, right? I mean, the female genital mutilation in Africa, etc is just SO SAVAGE, right, but the judeo christian belief system is not examined with the same eye. oh, how very unusual for belief system junkies. moreover, the islamisicst are told the same thing, in the same manner, by a 'god' who is essentially the same. you know, an 'enlightened' being who tries to generate love and devotion under force of threat of violence... as I said, I have a cactus out back I'll burn incense to before I sign up for that spiritually naieve, immature fairy tale. I could give a shit what anyone believes, until it gives them an attitude problem, which is pretty much what religion does. or, did you miss that one?
stay keenly tuned for your most interesting form letter, I'm sure.
pretty indistinguishable to me, except the representation in the Koran of deity he is a little less bloodthirsty and ethnocentric.
Sounds like your kind of God, if
you were into self-worship, that is... ...advocates genital mutilation
(called circumscion, there, ace) and BLOOD SACRIFICE. But I guess it's different
when it's the culture YOU come from, right? I mean, the female genital
mutilation in Africa, etc is just SO SAVAGE, right, but the judeo christian
belief system is not examined with the same eye. There is a difference.
Male circumcision just excises the foreskin, a rather useless excess of flesh.
Its loss does not significantly impair a man's enjoyment of sex. Female
circumcision, on the other hand, messes women up badly in that department, and
is meant to. Hence, female circumcision IS cruel and barbaric. Male
circumcision, on the other hand, is just a ritualized cutting that marks one
outwardly, but does no real damage. Big difference, don't you think?
moreover, the islamisicst are told the same thing, in the same manner, by a
'god' who is essentially the same. Not the same at all, really. Is the
god of Islam cruel, distant, capricious, weilding judgment untempered by grace,
mercy, love, etc.? The god of Israel is slow to anger, patient, kind, merciful,
long-suffering, etc. If he were not, you'd be a pile of ash after your post
above. :^)
Well, the post or message URL will be different from the thread URL, yes. But those URLs are not transmitted back to WindRiverShoshoni's website. The requests for those URLs are known only to LF's server, the person browsing (Daisy11 or any number of lurkers) and internet hops in between. Further, the association of screen name "Daisy11" with the IP address for Daisy11's owner is known only to LF and Daisy11's owner. The screen name "Daisy11" is not transmitted with the various requests for posts or threads or avatars or images. But the URL of the avatar, or transparent image or picture hosted by WindRiverShoshoni on WindRiverShoshoni's website is the only URL request that can be monitored by WindRiverShoshoni ('cause he's gotta serve it up when asked by the requesting IP). So when Daisy11 refreshes or replies on a thread, and when a lurker refreshes the same thread, there is no difference in the URL request for the avatar made to WindRiverShoshoni except for the IP address (Daisy11 owner's or a lurker's) to which the avator image is to be returned. And so WindRiverShoshoni has no basis to identify an image/avatar requesting IP address as coming from Daisy11's owner's PC or some lurker's PC Knowledge of Daisy11's owner's IP address must be determined someother way. If Daisy11 replies and so a post is in the thread at time 15:33:25 (HH:MM:ss) and WindRiverShoshoni's logs show avatar requests at the exact same time 15:33:25 and if WindRiverShoshoni's logs show no other image requests near that time, then yes it might be reasonable to infer the Daisy11 post and IP requesting the avatar image came from the same PC. But considering how frequently lurkers refresh an active thread, and that browsers don't always request cached images (as Neil pointed out) how likely can such an association be made?
This has nothing to do with Plan Daisy but it may give an explanation: Blocking your Information "When you send a request to a web site, it may respond with a request for a cookie. The cookie will be placed in your next request. If you wish to prevent web sites (and intermediaries, like your ISP) from seeing your personal information, you need to block the transmission of cookies. This may sound simple--some browsers let you turn cookies off entirely, or block certain sites--but in actuality it's much more complicated. If you turn cookies off entirely, some sites will cease to work. They need some information about you to perform properly--online e-mail sites are a good example. You can't turn off all cookies without running into problems. On the other hand, you can't block certain sites easily either. Most privacy violations are generated by sites you may not even know you visit. The images on CNN.com, for example, may come from a totally different web site that's tracking you. This is done often with ads, to watch you on multiple web sites. If you block CNN.com, you aren't blocking the advertisers who put the images on CNN.com, so your personal information is being sent out anyway, even if you only visit CNN.com. Of course this has to do with advertisers.. but could be used in the same way..
You're absolutely correct. Cookies can (and typically are) used to spy and difficult to block. I recommend ZoneAlarm firewall which can be programmed to block cookies, ads, webbugs, and private headers, on a site-by-site basis, as well as direct attempts to communicate with your BIOS and OS on a protocol and TCPIP port basis. I also recommend Opera browser which can be programmed to block or accept cookies from a specific server, an entire domain, or 3rd party cookies from servers or domains. Opera can also block popups, sound, animation, plugins and execution of Java or Java script, and referrals, but not on a site-by-site basis - it's all or none. That is an enhancement I've encouraged them to make, but not yet. The combination of ZoneAlarm, Opera, Dynamically assigned IP addresses, and ISP spam & virus blocking can be pretty effective.
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Thanks for the advice.. on LF etc.. They couldve used cookies but more than likely it was the IPs w/ time/date stamp of those who replied or viewed the images.. and makes you wonder then.. what do/did they do with that information..?
I should add that using Outlook to send/receive email is dangerous. I recommmend Eudora for email (in POP3 mode). Most of the browsers, firewalls and virus scanners recognize Eudora and will scan its email traffic for viri. The big plus over Outlook is Eudora will not automatically execute the .exe and .asx and dcom stuff that Outlook does (or at least used to) which is how a lot of spyware gets into folks systems - it's emailed to them and Outlook automatically executes it. Eudora won't.
LF requires "private headers" to authenticate posters (not lurtkers, just posters). LF also stores cookies. But neither the private headers nor cookie info from Daisy11 (for example) are accessable to 3rd parties like WindRiverShoshoni (again for example) assuming no security holes in LF's server software. If you mean why does WindRiverShoshoni collect it? I guess because he got suspicious of Daisy11's posting rate (similar to my suspicions of Badeye's posting rates on LP) and LFs management - human nature? I really dunno.
No what I mean was .. why did Daisy 11 compile the data.. why would they want to track users and what would they do with that info.. From what I've read.. WRS was trying to expose what Daisy 11 was doing as far as I can tell .. by duplicating it..
This tells me you hit the nail on the head. Ah hell, Boteye makes over 100 posts every day at LP. "Daisy11" is a rank amateur compared to that lying sack of shit.
Where is Mr. Buzzcut? Wonder what his take on this is? Speaking of, has anyone else noticed how low on posts the site is today???
Actually, yes they are, since the reply page contains the image again. As for caching, I think most users are set to "automatic" which leaves it up to the server. I could be wrong about that, but still there must be ways around it, as I'm not making this stuff up off the top of my head. Google "tracking gif web ip" and see what comes up, I dunno.
Comments (41 - 69) not displayed.
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#2. To: FormerLurker, Neil McIVer, tom007, Uncle Bill, who knows what evil, Red Jones, robin, swarthyguy, honway, Sparker, Fred Mertz, MUDDOG, lodwick, continental op, itisa1mosttoolate, CWRWinger, OKCSubmariner, christine, Arator (#0)
#3. To: toddbrendanfahey (#0)
#4. To: gengis gandhi (#3)
#5. To: gengis gandhi (#3)
to hell with all of them.
#6. To: toddbrendanfahey (#1)
Here is the Liberty Forum article that exposed the operation of an organized Israeli loyalist hasbara operation at Liberty Forum, masquerading as a single individual called "Daisy11" ~ who joined Liberty Forum on November 23, 2002, and had added 11,097 posts by July 20, 2003 ~ 46.43 posts per day for 239 days, posting literally around the clock ...
#7. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#0)
#8. To: gengis gandhi, D_Joyce, robin, Diana, christine (#3)
A repost of Dennis' letter...Ka-Booom ! Thank you, Dennis...
#9. To: toddbrendanfahey (#1)
"Daisy11" ~ who joined Liberty Forum on November 23, 2002, and
had added 11,097 posts by July 20, 2003 ~ 46.43 posts per day for 239 days,
posting literally around the clock ...
#10. To: Eoghan, D_Joyce (#8)
#11. To: toddbrendanfahey, Mr Nuke Buzzcut, Neil McIver, all (#0)
First, notice that there are no Daisy11 entries in my logs for the period from March through June. That means that whoever was posting as Daisy11 had graphics turned off, my log entries come from graphics hosted on my website
So, WindRiverShoshoni is referring to his logs and his website, and not presumably to LF website logs, right? Daisy11 posts regularly from 212.198.0.97, an anonymizing proxy server in Paris; and ALSO shows up in my server logs
Network Tracer comes up with a big nothing. Well, I went to Arin for each of the cited IP address and got an ISP and abuse email and techncial contract address. Further, firewalls block ping requests and prevent messaging to BIOS and other ports.
#12. To: Starwind (#11)
#13. To: toddbrendanfahey (#12)
#14. To: Eoghan (#13)
#15. To: All (#11)
Network Tracer comes up with a big nothing. Well, I went to Arin for each of the cited IP address and got an ISP and abuse email and techncial contract address. Further, firewalls block ping requests and prevent messaging to BIOS and other ports.
Network Tracer comes up with a big nothing.
#16. To: toddbrendanfahey, gengis gandi (#4)
#17. To: Starwind (#11)
So, WindRiverShoshoni is referring to his logs and his website, and not presumably to LF website logs, right?
How does WindRiverShoshoni know what IP address is associated with the LF poster Daisy11?
#18. To: toddbrendanfahey (#0)
#19. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#18)
#20. To: Starwind (#11)
#21. To: toddbrendanfahey, Eoghan, Diana, robin (#0)
But Liberty Forum is the ONLY place that "allows as free discussion of politics as you will find" here.
That and the owners are decent, dedicated patriots. They are unlocatable, they are hidden from view, they are completely obscured, by design and intent
#22. To: Starwind (#11)
How does WindRiverShoshoni know what IP address is associated with the LF poster Daisy11?
#23. To: Rabble Rouser (#22)
When I see someone with an avatar on a forum that doesn't have them built in, or a clearly experienced poster who is using an avatar (a very dork-newbie device, really), you can assume they're using it to snoop.
#24. To: Rabble Rouser, toddbrendanfahey, Neil McIver, 1776, Jethro Tull (#22)
FR's Sabertooth is a good example.
#25. To: christine, Rabble Rouser, toddbrendanfahey, 1776, Jethro Tull (#24)
#26. To: Arator (#5)
#27. To: Eoghan (#8)
I expect to hear from the Senator, personally. She is the one claiming to represent me, not you.
#28. To: gengis gandhi, christine (#26)
moreover, the islamisicst are told the same thing, in the same manner, by a 'god' who is essentially the same.
#29. To: gengis gandhi (#26)
you have a 'god' that, as a burning bush, is racist (the chosen
ones), jealous, angry...
#30. To: Rabble Rouser (#22)
If Daisy11 replies to a comment that contains the picture, the url will be different from the thread url,
and there will be a close timestamp to narrow it down.
#31. To: Starwind (#30)
#32. To: Zipporah (#31)
#33. To: Starwind (#32)
#34. To: Starwind (#32)
#35. To: toddbrendanfahey, Zipporah (#33)
The combination of ZoneAlarm, Opera, Dynamically assigned IP addresses, and ISP spam & virus blocking can be pretty effective.
#36. To: Zipporah (#34)
on LF etc.. They couldve used cookies but more than likely it was the IPs w/ time/date stamp of those who replied or viewed the images..
and makes you wonder then.. what do/did they do with that information..?
#37. To: Starwind (#36)
f you mean why does WindRiverShoshoni collect it? I guess because he got suspicious of Daisy11's posting rate (similar to my suspicions of Badeye's posting rates on LP) and LFs management - human nature? I really dunno.
#38. To: Jethro Tull (#6)
Here is the Liberty Forum article that exposed the operation of an organized Israeli loyalist hasbara operation at Liberty Forum, masquerading as a single individual called "Daisy11" ~ who joined Liberty Forum on November 23, 2002, and had added 11,097 posts by July 20, 2003 ~ 46.43 posts per day for 239 days, posting literally around the clock ...
#39. To: toddbrendanfahey, nuke buzzcut (#0)
#40. To: Starwind, Neil McIver (#30)
Well, the post or message URL will be different from the thread URL, yes. But those URLs are not transmitted back to WindRiverShoshoni's website. The requests for those URLs are known only to LF's server
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