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Dead Constitution
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Title: Teacher demands to carry gun in school
Source: The Oregonian
URL Source: http://www.oregonlive.com/printer/p ... ews/118949018187870.xml&coll=7
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: Peter Sleeth and Betsy Hammond
Post Date: 2007-09-12 04:13:00 by mirage
Keywords: None
Views: 619
Comments: 17

Teacher demands to carry gun in school

Untested in court - Oregon law says a woman can have a concealed Glock; Medford district policy says not at work
Similar district policies

Some school districts have more expansive policies than Medford.

Portland, Tigard-Tualatin, Lake Oswego, Vancouver and other large Portland-area school districts make it a rule that no one except police can bring guns onto school property. Even if those rules are unenforceable, they're on the books and school personnel act as if they count.

"We don't allow firearms of any sort in our buildings, no matter who you are," said Matt Shelby, a spokesman for Portland Public Schools.

Others, including Gresham-Barlow, have the same policy as Medford, specifying that as a condition of their employment, staff and contractors can't bring concealed weapons onto school property.

Rebekah Cook, attorney for the Oregon School Boards Association, says districts are on sound legal footing when they prohibit employees from bringing concealed weapons to work, even when they have a legal permit to do so.

In a 2001 case against Washington County, the Oregon Employment Relations Board ruled that the state's concealed weapons law does not prohibit a public agency from making no guns at work a condition of employment.

"An employer . . . retains the right to address its unique concerns with its employees' possession of firearms," the board ruled.

But Cook concedes it is ultimately an "unsettled area of law," having never gone to the Oregon Supreme Court.

Sen. Ginny Burdick, D-Portland, who strongly opposes guns in schools, says, "On the face of the law, it certainly looks . . . that if you have a concealed handgun license, you can basically take your gun wherever you want, except federal buildings or through airport security."

A North Clackamas School District janitor who sued the district after it fired him in 1999 for bringing a concealed weapon to campus brought what was expected to be a test case in 2000. Custodian Greg King had sought back pay and restoration to his job but got neither after dropping his case after a few months. King dropped his suit after the district pointed out that a concealed handgun license allows the holder to carry a gun hidden on his body, whereas King left his semiautomatic weapon in a backpack in an elementary school's elevator.

Portland Public Schools has a rule that no one can bring a concealed weapon on its property, even though the district has been forced to acknowledge state law trumps its rule. That was proven when a parent brought three guns to a Lincoln High School football game in 1999. School security officers were outraged and took him into custody. But ultimately the district conceded the law was on his side.

Kevin Starrett, executive director of the Oregon Firearms Federation, said his organization has sought in the past to clarify gun laws on Oregon's college campuses without success. The issue of public employment and the right to carry a gun remains unresolved, he said.

The Medford teacher contacted the federation seeking advice and help. At first, Starrett said, it attempted to resolve the matter out of court by contacting the district, but a courtroom showdown is increasingly likely.

Burdick, who opposes the state mandate to let concealed handgun license holders bring guns to school, has backed legislation to let schools bar concealed weapons from campus -- but has gotten few lawmakers to vote her way.

Burdick said fear of the National Rifle Association, not public opinion, is what causes Oregon lawmakers to kill the idea year after year.

"It's just ludicrous to allow guns in schools under any circumstances," she says. "There are regular common-sense gun owners who overwhelmingly want the local school board to at least be able to make their own decision on this at the local level. Most of the parents I talked to had no idea, and they were horrified when they found out it was possible to bring a gun to school. . . . Johnny's parents don't want his first-grade teachers packing heat."

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 10.

#1. To: mirage (#0)

Why shouldn't public employees who enter dangerous areas be able to arm themselves?

Can anyone give me one reason why teachers, building inspectors or postal workers shouldn't be able to....oh, wait.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-09-12   4:43:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: HOUNDDAWG (#1)

I do not understand this irrational fear of guns. I remember after 9/11 they talked about arming pilots but there was the big outcry against it. Why? Most of them are military anyway and if they wanted to kill you they don't need a gun.

farmfriend  posted on  2007-09-12   8:22:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: farmfriend (#2)

I do not understand this irrational fear of guns. I remember after 9/11 they talked about arming pilots but there was the big outcry against it. Why? Most of them are military anyway and if they wanted to kill you they don't need a gun.

Our masters want to be able to control the police and to make deadly force policy that will discourage the killing of black criminals.

In some scenarios a lawfully armed citizen has more rights than the police to use deadly force with the exception of the common law power to shoot fleeing felons, and most police agencies consider that "out of policy", except corrections officers who are empowered and expected to shoot escapees. And, often the only people who actually stand trial for gun charges are citizens who get snagged and who have committed no other offense against the sensibilities of the govt, while real criminals often have the gun charges dropped in plea agreements.

If Americans trained and carried properly and were mature and circumspect in their judicious use of deadly force (which means don't shoot a neighbor because your kids are fighting or solve domestic or barroom disputes with gunplay) the black crime wave would be reduced considerably and the bruthas would shift their emphasis to property crimes instead of rape, robbery, assault, rape ("You said rape twice!" I like rape"__Blazing Saddles)

"Strong govt breeds weak citizens" and because govt has taken the responsibility of defending ourselves and even disciplining our kids from us we've been reduced to little monkey children with the nanny state telling us everything including when it's time to die and let our spouses collect our life insurance. (Terri Schiavo)

The 2nd amendment is the final obstacle to world government, and the media, the state and academia have conspired to disarm us for that reason.

Even when a homeowner lawfully shoots an armed, escaped convict with a history of brutal chainsaw massacres and the headline should trumpet "HOORAY! GOOD GUYS WIN ONE!" what does the media do? The talking head newscaster announces with a somber voice that "the homeowner will not face any charges" as if he wants to say "This is the worst case of justifiable homicide I've ever seen!"

Gun control isn't about crime, it's about politics.

As the former NRA prez Harlon Carter once asked, "What do you have in mind for me Mr. Politician that my owning a gun makes you so nervous?"

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-09-12   16:12:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: HOUNDDAWG (#5)

As the former NRA prez Harlon Carter once asked, "What do you have in mind for me Mr. Politician that my owning a gun makes you so nervous?"

amen bump

Lod  posted on  2007-09-12   18:12:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 10.

#12. To: lodwick (#10)

Would you tell me again about that Barrett-type of plinker that you ordered that's necked down to slightly under .50?

I can't remember what it's called or the exact caliber.

Is it a .460 Sharpton? ;)

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-09-12 22:27:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 10.

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