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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Teacher demands to carry gun in school
Source: The Oregonian
URL Source: http://www.oregonlive.com/printer/p ... ews/118949018187870.xml&coll=7
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: Peter Sleeth and Betsy Hammond
Post Date: 2007-09-12 04:13:00 by mirage
Keywords: None
Views: 606
Comments: 17

Teacher demands to carry gun in school

Untested in court - Oregon law says a woman can have a concealed Glock; Medford district policy says not at work
Similar district policies

Some school districts have more expansive policies than Medford.

Portland, Tigard-Tualatin, Lake Oswego, Vancouver and other large Portland-area school districts make it a rule that no one except police can bring guns onto school property. Even if those rules are unenforceable, they're on the books and school personnel act as if they count.

"We don't allow firearms of any sort in our buildings, no matter who you are," said Matt Shelby, a spokesman for Portland Public Schools.

Others, including Gresham-Barlow, have the same policy as Medford, specifying that as a condition of their employment, staff and contractors can't bring concealed weapons onto school property.

Rebekah Cook, attorney for the Oregon School Boards Association, says districts are on sound legal footing when they prohibit employees from bringing concealed weapons to work, even when they have a legal permit to do so.

In a 2001 case against Washington County, the Oregon Employment Relations Board ruled that the state's concealed weapons law does not prohibit a public agency from making no guns at work a condition of employment.

"An employer . . . retains the right to address its unique concerns with its employees' possession of firearms," the board ruled.

But Cook concedes it is ultimately an "unsettled area of law," having never gone to the Oregon Supreme Court.

Sen. Ginny Burdick, D-Portland, who strongly opposes guns in schools, says, "On the face of the law, it certainly looks . . . that if you have a concealed handgun license, you can basically take your gun wherever you want, except federal buildings or through airport security."

A North Clackamas School District janitor who sued the district after it fired him in 1999 for bringing a concealed weapon to campus brought what was expected to be a test case in 2000. Custodian Greg King had sought back pay and restoration to his job but got neither after dropping his case after a few months. King dropped his suit after the district pointed out that a concealed handgun license allows the holder to carry a gun hidden on his body, whereas King left his semiautomatic weapon in a backpack in an elementary school's elevator.

Portland Public Schools has a rule that no one can bring a concealed weapon on its property, even though the district has been forced to acknowledge state law trumps its rule. That was proven when a parent brought three guns to a Lincoln High School football game in 1999. School security officers were outraged and took him into custody. But ultimately the district conceded the law was on his side.

Kevin Starrett, executive director of the Oregon Firearms Federation, said his organization has sought in the past to clarify gun laws on Oregon's college campuses without success. The issue of public employment and the right to carry a gun remains unresolved, he said.

The Medford teacher contacted the federation seeking advice and help. At first, Starrett said, it attempted to resolve the matter out of court by contacting the district, but a courtroom showdown is increasingly likely.

Burdick, who opposes the state mandate to let concealed handgun license holders bring guns to school, has backed legislation to let schools bar concealed weapons from campus -- but has gotten few lawmakers to vote her way.

Burdick said fear of the National Rifle Association, not public opinion, is what causes Oregon lawmakers to kill the idea year after year.

"It's just ludicrous to allow guns in schools under any circumstances," she says. "There are regular common-sense gun owners who overwhelmingly want the local school board to at least be able to make their own decision on this at the local level. Most of the parents I talked to had no idea, and they were horrified when they found out it was possible to bring a gun to school. . . . Johnny's parents don't want his first-grade teachers packing heat."

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 3.

#1. To: mirage (#0)

Why shouldn't public employees who enter dangerous areas be able to arm themselves?

Can anyone give me one reason why teachers, building inspectors or postal workers shouldn't be able to....oh, wait.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-09-12   4:43:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: HOUNDDAWG (#1)

I do not understand this irrational fear of guns. I remember after 9/11 they talked about arming pilots but there was the big outcry against it. Why? Most of them are military anyway and if they wanted to kill you they don't need a gun.

farmfriend  posted on  2007-09-12   8:22:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: farmfriend, jethro tull (#2) (Edited)

Untested in court - Oregon law says a woman can have a concealed Glock; Medford district policy says not at work Similar district policies

This woman has made the ultimate mistake. Whining. She should have just done it anyway. It would be concealed so nobody would have ever known unless she had to use it.

While I had my CHP [I let it expire out of principle and still carry dammit! @!!!] I carried my full-size SIGMA 17 shot 9MM concealed in a vertical shoulder holster at work under my cardigan uniform sweater and nobody ever knew..that was for 6 years. On one day during those 6 years, the place was robbed at gunpoint. I was off that day. I've given enough hints about the work, but due to the nature of the details what went down, both Mexican robbers would have been taken out...and I would have been fired...but alive...and the other two agents and a customer would have been alive. And I would have sued and been rich by now.

IndieTX  posted on  2007-09-12   10:13:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 3.

#6. To: IndieTX (#3)

This woman has made the ultimate mistake. Whining. She should have just done it anyway. It would be concealed so nobody would have ever known unless she had to use it.

While I had my CHP [I let it expire out of principle and still carry dammit! @!!!] I carried my full-size SIGMA 17 shot 9MM concealed in a vertical shoulder holster at work under my cardigan uniform sweater and nobody ever knew..that was for 6 years. On one day during those 6 years, the place was robbed at gunpoint. I was off that day. I've given enough hints about the work, but due to the nature of the details what went down, both Mexican robbers would have been taken out...and I would have been fired...but alive...and the other two agents and a customer would have been alive. And I would have sued and been rich by now.

Southland Corp. has a strict "no weapons" policy for their clerks because they learned long ago that it's cheaper to pay double indemnity ($20,000) to the family of a 7-11 clerk killed in a robbery than to be sued by a dead robber's wife and lose millions.

Remember, even though the robber was a violent crim, his wife and kids are victims, and juries often probe deep corporate pockets thanks to lawyers who rent wheel chairs on the day of the trial for their weeping, grief stricken victim/clients.

Southland hates to lose beau coup dinero because a clerk is a better shot and the Goddess smiled on him, and the plaintiff's attorney can bring a jury to tears in sympathy with the family of Mr. Crackhead.

One clerk ignored the policy and he shot and killed an armed robber about 10 years ago. It was a good shooting and there were no charges filed, but Southland fired the clerk. (ok, leave that gig off your resume)

In the stockroom of 7-11s they have signs that advise employees that they are less likely to be hurt if they don't resist a robber. But, if the crim is a three time loser and he will go away for life if he can be picked from a mugbook then he may not want to leave a live or videotape witness. And, many savage black criminals kill whitey just for the pure unadulterated Hell of it. "FOE HUNNRID YEERS OF OPPRESSION MUTHA FUKKA! BLAM BLAM BLAM!!!"

Your point is absolutely right and I couldn't agree more. If producing a firearm in a timely manner and my years spent in preparation for that moment result in a loss to the stockholders, well, that's just tuff dooky.

It's also cheaper to let a clerk go down than to hire armed security, too.

So, it's up to us to explain this to every convenience store, gas station, likka sto and bus company employee we talk to.

And, if I get on their jury (if they're charged with a gun rap like Bernie Goetz) I'll hang the jury all by my little ol' pea pickin' self!

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-09-12 16:43:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: IndieTX (#3)

She should have just done it anyway.

That's what I would have done.

farmfriend  posted on  2007-09-12 17:59:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 3.

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