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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Teacher demands to carry gun in school
Source: The Oregonian
URL Source: http://www.oregonlive.com/printer/p ... ews/118949018187870.xml&coll=7
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: Peter Sleeth and Betsy Hammond
Post Date: 2007-09-12 04:13:00 by mirage
Keywords: None
Views: 602
Comments: 17

Teacher demands to carry gun in school

Untested in court - Oregon law says a woman can have a concealed Glock; Medford district policy says not at work
Similar district policies

Some school districts have more expansive policies than Medford.

Portland, Tigard-Tualatin, Lake Oswego, Vancouver and other large Portland-area school districts make it a rule that no one except police can bring guns onto school property. Even if those rules are unenforceable, they're on the books and school personnel act as if they count.

"We don't allow firearms of any sort in our buildings, no matter who you are," said Matt Shelby, a spokesman for Portland Public Schools.

Others, including Gresham-Barlow, have the same policy as Medford, specifying that as a condition of their employment, staff and contractors can't bring concealed weapons onto school property.

Rebekah Cook, attorney for the Oregon School Boards Association, says districts are on sound legal footing when they prohibit employees from bringing concealed weapons to work, even when they have a legal permit to do so.

In a 2001 case against Washington County, the Oregon Employment Relations Board ruled that the state's concealed weapons law does not prohibit a public agency from making no guns at work a condition of employment.

"An employer . . . retains the right to address its unique concerns with its employees' possession of firearms," the board ruled.

But Cook concedes it is ultimately an "unsettled area of law," having never gone to the Oregon Supreme Court.

Sen. Ginny Burdick, D-Portland, who strongly opposes guns in schools, says, "On the face of the law, it certainly looks . . . that if you have a concealed handgun license, you can basically take your gun wherever you want, except federal buildings or through airport security."

A North Clackamas School District janitor who sued the district after it fired him in 1999 for bringing a concealed weapon to campus brought what was expected to be a test case in 2000. Custodian Greg King had sought back pay and restoration to his job but got neither after dropping his case after a few months. King dropped his suit after the district pointed out that a concealed handgun license allows the holder to carry a gun hidden on his body, whereas King left his semiautomatic weapon in a backpack in an elementary school's elevator.

Portland Public Schools has a rule that no one can bring a concealed weapon on its property, even though the district has been forced to acknowledge state law trumps its rule. That was proven when a parent brought three guns to a Lincoln High School football game in 1999. School security officers were outraged and took him into custody. But ultimately the district conceded the law was on his side.

Kevin Starrett, executive director of the Oregon Firearms Federation, said his organization has sought in the past to clarify gun laws on Oregon's college campuses without success. The issue of public employment and the right to carry a gun remains unresolved, he said.

The Medford teacher contacted the federation seeking advice and help. At first, Starrett said, it attempted to resolve the matter out of court by contacting the district, but a courtroom showdown is increasingly likely.

Burdick, who opposes the state mandate to let concealed handgun license holders bring guns to school, has backed legislation to let schools bar concealed weapons from campus -- but has gotten few lawmakers to vote her way.

Burdick said fear of the National Rifle Association, not public opinion, is what causes Oregon lawmakers to kill the idea year after year.

"It's just ludicrous to allow guns in schools under any circumstances," she says. "There are regular common-sense gun owners who overwhelmingly want the local school board to at least be able to make their own decision on this at the local level. Most of the parents I talked to had no idea, and they were horrified when they found out it was possible to bring a gun to school. . . . Johnny's parents don't want his first-grade teachers packing heat."

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 4.

#1. To: mirage (#0)

Why shouldn't public employees who enter dangerous areas be able to arm themselves?

Can anyone give me one reason why teachers, building inspectors or postal workers shouldn't be able to....oh, wait.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-09-12   4:43:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: HOUNDDAWG (#1)

Why shouldn't public employees who enter dangerous areas be able to arm themselves?

Funny you should mention that.

At one point, a family member had to disarm a student in a classroom.

Technically speaking, since that family member is not a cop, that person was in violation of policy and the law by being in possession of the firearm after tackling and taking it away from the student.

Said student also had about $5k worth of dope on him.

A long conversation with the local sheriff's office ensued and that's where I got a lot of information from. The local sheriff's office said "Got permit?"

The local cops know what is going on. The District Officials have their heads up their arses.

mirage  posted on  2007-09-12   12:00:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 4.

#7. To: mirage (#4) (Edited)

Technically speaking, since that family member is not a cop, that person was in violation of policy and the law by being in possession of the firearm after tackling and taking it away from the student.

Two words: mens rea.

No jury would convict for that and only the stoopidest of prosecutors would take that before a grand jury.

If he or she does and the grand jury hands up a true bill, fine.

I'd still rather go to court for that than to allow the law to paralyze me with fear.

If someone was hurt or worse because I did not act I would have a hard time living with that.

In his book IN GRAVEST EXTREME self defense expert Massad Ayoob makes it clear that if a mugger sticks a gun in your face and demands your wallet, give it to him. It's a whole lot cheaper to let him go than to shoot him. Even if you win you'll lose if you spend your life's savings defending an unnecessary use of deadly force to protect credit cards that you won't be responsible for anyway.

But, the late Jeff Cooper taught that if armed crims bust in and they have the drop on you, you may as well go for it because they're going to kill you anyway.

So, you have to trust your instincts and training and hopefully know when a guy wants your wallet only (a white mugger on a busy street for instance) or he or they intend to kill somebody and get in the big league to earn their gang initiation. (with MS 13, The Crips or La Eme-The Mexican Mafia)

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-09-12 17:03:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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