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All is Vanity
See other All is Vanity Articles

Title: Grand Conspiracy Theories are Dumb
Source: Aquol
URL Source: http://matthew.aqoul.com/2007/06/grand_conspiracy_theories_are.html
Published: Sep 21, 2007
Author: Matthew Hogan
Post Date: 2007-09-21 07:24:38 by YertleTurtle
Keywords: None
Views: 5507
Comments: 183

Acting alone, and for egotistical and political reasons, Lee Harvey Oswald shot President Kennedy, Texas Governor John Connally, and a Dallas police officer in November 1963. On September 11, 2001, disciples of Osama bin-Laden, a maverick Islamist theocrat, crashed themselves and hundreds of others into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon because they believed America to be their enemy, and Americans to be evil. Rumsfeld, the CIA, the Mossad, Unocal, and so forth, whatever their many sins, did not do it.

Grand conspiracies are grand fantasies. A cabal of bankers do not run the world. The Council of Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission are simply debating societies/social clubs of otherwise very powerful people. The Illuminati did not, and do not, map out history.

Things, especially large political things, actually are far more often what they seem to be.

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are fabrications about a world Jewish conspiracy concocted by Russian bigots in a mad time and place. The Masons are bored grownups playing kids' games.

Of course, history-making conspiracies do happen. And can succeed. That's why I have entitled this "Grand Conspiracy Theories Are Dumb". Small conspiracies by alienated misfits are often quite successful at changing history. The assassination of Lincoln was a successful conspiracy of alienated outsiders. So too, incidentally, were the attacks of September 11, 2001. So was the assassination of an Austrian Archduke in Serbia in 1914 that started World War One.

The pair of snipers who semi-paralyzed the capital of 21st Century America in 2002 were two homeless oddballs.

But the idea of a ruling inner circle of humanity, which grandly orchestrates great events from behind the scenes, seems to excite more interest and attention. Even though such don't exist.

What's the Attraction?

So what then is the attraction of insider conspiracy theories ? I think it is not so much their fascination with great evil but rather their hopeful, if illusory, reassurance of widespread virtue and competence.

Grand insider conspiracy theories give us hope when we feel powerless. Strangely enough, grand insider conspiracy theories reassuringly exaggerate the presence not of evil, but of goodness, humility, and efficiency in the human character.

It may seem shocking at first but grand conspiracy theories actually require an enormous -- and frankly ludicrous -- amount of faith in selfless efficient human dedication to others and/or abstract causes.

We need only consider the incredible amount of virtue imputed to people allegedly involved in grand conspiracies. Imagine, for example, if Jack Ruby really was induced by the mafia or some other nefarious cabal to eliminate Lee Harvey Oswald after Oswald was arrested,. (Rather than being motivated by his actual understandable but unbalanced rage over Kennedy's assassination.)

Why would Ruby be willing to spend the rest of his life in prison, even face the death sentence, and not squeal or blab about his place in changing history? The mafia doesn't always command that level of silence from family members of the Don over a small heroin racket and a few years of jail time.

If we look carefully we see that such alleged conspiratorial behavior presupposes one heck of a sense of integrity and dedication on the part of the participants in evil and deception. Not to mention also presupposing brilliantly effective and flawless coordination and timing among far-flung members of the conspiracy. But in reality people just aren't that clever, but it is comforting, even reassuring, to believe so.

To accept grand conspiracy theories, one must honestly feel that there are large numbers of people willing to suffer, die, kill, as well as lose their wealth and reputation while keeping loyally silent, all in order to consciously protect the good name and position of some other power-mad or simply greedy individuals.

And on top of that, in grand conspiracy theories, there are no uncontrolled unintended results of the actions of such people.

What efficiency, what integrity one must believe humanity capable of!

What loyalty!

What crap!

Street thugs typically cannot help bragging about some sadistic petty crime. To imagine great historical actors collaborating in self-sacrifice across generations and without direct credit or benefit to themselves, and without falling out in petty competition, is to give our species far more credit than it deserves.

Indeed, if such conspiratorial forces actually can undertake and command such dedication and integrity, maybe the manipulators really do deserve to run the world! At least the stock market won't crash.

Self-Righteous Indolence and Envy Enabled

Conspiracy theories reassure us of the prevalence of virtue and comfort in the world in another paradoxical way: they appeal to our sense of self-righteousness and laziness. By making Evil the prerogative of small inner cabal of "them," the rest of us come across as relatively benign. Why look to ourselves to find and do the hard work of fixing the moral and intellectual failings that cause unnecessary ills?

Why look to our own responsibility in the creation and perpetuation of wrong? We don't have to, we can just say that it's the [fill in the blank s.o.b.-parasite conspirators] doing it. No, not us, we are not helping it to happen. The s.o.b.'s are doing so in a manner beyond our control,beyond our poor power to add or detract.

In serving this purpose, insider conspiracy theories also provide a cover for ignorant and bigoted envy and resentment. The villains of conspiracy theories are often simply people who are resented merely for being or appearing successful, admired, or wealthy. Bankers, businesspeople, "corporate America", Jews, Masons, etc.

Human Motive Transparency

Grand conspiracy theories also allow us to ignore the utter transparency of most human motives, good or ill. One actually doesn't need much of a crystal ball to discern personal ambitions, ideological aims, and manipulative tactics. There was nothing especially opaque about the motives and activities of such history-sweeping phenomena as Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Or those of a banker like J.P Morgan, or those of oil companies.

Now, of course, powerful people, movements, and institutions really do carry out manipulative deceptive hidden acts with nefarious agendas, and can do so with some success. They most certainly engage in recurrent dishonesty. As indeed most of us do from time to time. But as the more powerful are better organized and possess a further reach, they can pull off real conspiratorial manipulations here and there from time to time. The ferreting out of these sins is the real hard labor of life and intellect.

Such ferreting out is an ever-present challenge for the attuned citizen. But all that is no excuse for denying that things really are more often what they seem to be, and perhaps a lot less. Grand manipulations are usually found out fairly quickly. The Gulf of Tonkin Incident, the French-British-Israeli pre-collaboration in the 1956 Suez War, the French bombing of the Greenpeace ship in New Zealand, the American role in the overthrow and death of Congolese leader Patrice Lumumba etc. are but a few examples of the difficulty of secrecy in a world where things are usually obvious and people typically blab.

Simple Rules to Remember

Never attribute to evil what you can to stupidity and apathy. Never attribute to idealism and selfless determination what you can to ego, greed, and vanity. Never assume evil power-mad people are so dedicated and clever that they will keep secret their aims and role in affecting history.

Nor are they likely to succeed at efforts like those without overt challenge, embarrassing exposure, and multiple public failures born of inefficiency, competition, transparency and ego.

Perhaps the most important fact to remember is that it is CONSPIRACY THEORISTS who have carried out the worst evils. Hitlerism was based on the fantasy of a conspiratorial nature of Bolshevism , capitalism, and democracy behind which were the Jews.

Conspiracy theorists plunged the world into its worst war and sent millions to crematoria.

Conspiracy theories explain events in a way that reassures us that people are basically good -- so good in fact that even the authors of evil turn up amazingly selfless and dedicated. They paint a world where everything works efficiently.

These provide us with comfort instead of truth, and open the door to far far greater evils in the real world than the conspiracy theories complain of.


Poster Comment:

The psychology of the conspiracist is thus: "I am right and you are not only wrong, you are evil, so ultimately it is okay to murder you."

In the Soviet Union, since Communism does not work, scapegoats had to be found. Of course, it was a "conspiracy" behind all of the failures. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people were convicted as "wreckers" and shot or imprisoned for 25 years.

This is what the belief in impossible conspiracies ultimately leads to.

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#133. To: Mister Clean (#132)

"If you've got some proof you should do something about it."

Have you got a problem with me re-iterating on a continuing basis that 9/11 was a zionist inside job, or is that "anti-semitic?"

nobody  posted on  2007-09-23   10:33:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: nobody (#133)

Have you got a problem with me re-iterating on a continuing basis that 9/11 was a zionist inside job, or is that "anti-semitic?"

I don't have a problem with idiocy unless it effects me personally.

Yours doesn't so by all means carry on.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-23   10:38:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: YertleTurtle (#130)

Ever see the opening scene in "Saving Private Ryan"? In the Higgins boat? There is one part where one soldier is standing behind another, and a machine gun bullet goes in the first's forehead, exits the back of his head, and goes through the forehead of the guy behind him.

That's pretty accurate, except their heads would have exploded, which was not shown. In each case, their heads would also have gone backsward, from the muscle convulsions. Had the bullet hit them from behind, their heads still would have gone backwards, not fowards

Wrong. When you shoot a person in the head, through the brain, there are no muscle contractions. The muscle function STOPS, and the body drops like a rock, except the extent to which it is acted upon by the energy of the bullet load.

The shot that killed JFK came from the front. We know this because we understand geometry and physics. When the last bullet hit him from the front, it struck his skull and knocked the head back upon that contact, followed by it taking the top of his head off by the load's subsequent spread.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-09-23   10:46:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: Mister Clean (#134) (Edited)

"idiocy"

That's zionism for you. I'm glad it bothers you. Expect much more.

nobody  posted on  2007-09-23   10:48:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: nobody (#136)

I'm glad it bothers you.

Your idiocy does not bother me at all.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-23   10:51:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: Mister Clean (#137)

"idiocy"

Well, my zionist friend, it's only idiotic if I'm wrong.

nobody  posted on  2007-09-23   10:53:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#139. To: nobody (#138)

Well, my zionist friend, it's only idiotic if I'm wrong.

You are wrong and I'm not your friend.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-23   10:53:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: Mister Clean (#139) (Edited)

"You are wrong"

But every zionist says that.

... which makes being right positively enjoyable, I don't mind telling you, my professed zionist non-friend.

nobody  posted on  2007-09-23   11:00:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: Mister Clean (#139)

I'm not your friend.

What a tactless, impolite thing to say!

I notice you don't say you're not a Zionist.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-09-23   11:48:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: Mister Clean (#132)

If you've got some proof you should do something about it.

Who do you suggest I go to first, the Log Cabin Republicans?

nobody  posted on  2007-09-23   11:52:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: aristeides (#141)

He is crabby from all the sand in his teeth. Living with one's head stuck in the sand of denial like some human ostrich is actually a miserable existance for bubbas like this one. ;-D

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-09-23   11:52:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: nobody (#142)

"Who do you suggest I go to first, the Log Cabin Republicans?"

That wouldn't be hard. I would be surprised if there are enough of those guys to even fill up an average settler's tiny little dirt floor log dwelling.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-09-23   11:55:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: Ferret Mike (#144)

All suggestions will be entertained.

nobody  posted on  2007-09-23   11:56:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: Paul Revere (#128)

The truth is that such people tend to be authoritarians who think there's a right way and a wrong way to do everything from folding towels to putting dishes in the dishwasher, and will tell you and everyone else so, if you'll only listen. They envy authority, and identify with it like a jailhouse trusty, since they seldom have any real authority over anyone else. Out of their impotence is born their zeal to identify with the power.

astute observation!

christine  posted on  2007-09-23   13:35:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#147. To: nobody (#142)

Who do you suggest I go to first, the Log Cabin Republicans?

You should take your information to someone who will take it seriously.

Good luck.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-23   13:45:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: aristeides (#141)

I notice you don't say you're not a Zionist.

If Zionist means to support the existence of the state of Israel then I most definitely am a Zionist.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-23   13:46:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: Mister Clean (#147)

You should take your information to someone who will take it seriously.

Can't think of one authority who would honestly evaluate it?

Me neither. You have no idea how much I cherish this leverage.

nobody  posted on  2007-09-23   13:50:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: nobody (#149)

Can't think of one authority who would honestly evaluate it?

Me neither.

There's always Alex Jones and the "Loose Change" boys.

Maybe you could be interviewed for the final cut... if they ever finish it.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-23   13:52:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: Mister Clean (#148)

If Zionist means to support the existence of the state of Israel

I dont know anyone who doesnt..

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-23   13:53:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: Mister Clean (#150)

Good suggestion, I'm getting right on it, zionist cover-up clown.

You have no idea how fun it is to be so uniquely right and yet be able to maintain the position by simply poking fun of lying zionist cover-up retards on the internet.

nobody  posted on  2007-09-23   13:59:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: YertleTurtle (#130)

Massive instant brain damage causes the muscles to convulse. Since the back muscles are far stronger than the chest muscules, the head is pulled back.

Turtle Poster.

Did you receive your medical training at the CIA?

Perhaps the Arlen Spector School of Medicine?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-09-23   14:00:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#154. To: nobody (#152)

You have no idea how fun it is to be so uniquely right

You shouldn't take yourself so seriously but I realize that you "truthers" can't help it.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-23   14:03:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#155. To: Mister Clean (#154)

You shouldn't take yourself so seriously but I realize that you "truthers" can't help it.

No, they can't, and no matter how much I or anyone else explains how the belief in impossible conspiracies leads to truly evil behavior, and genocide, none can open their brains just a tiny little crack to even consider it.

"He is a very shallow critic who cannot see an eternal rebel in the heart of a conservative." - G.K. Chesterton

YertleTurtle  posted on  2007-09-23   14:06:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#156. To: YertleTurtle (#155)

none can open their brains just a tiny little crack to even consider it.

It's a cult.

I'm going to start referring to it as the 9/11 "truth" cult.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-23   14:08:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#157. To: Mister Clean (#154)

You shouldn't take yourself so seriously

Yes, you're absolutely right. Given the acute times we live in a fantasy world of government spewed propaganda is the only way to go. Now, pardon me while I turn this frown upside down and hop into your illusion :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-09-23   14:08:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#158. To: Mister Clean (#154)

You shouldn't take yourself so seriously but I realize that you "truthers" can't help it.

It's a serious topic. I suppose you don't like being right, especially when the topic is so important, but I enjoy it immensely, especially when I can freely insult zionist lunatics for their deceptive, murderous and constantly-lying ways.

nobody  posted on  2007-09-23   14:08:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#159. To: nobody (#158)

It's a serious topic.

No, it's an outlandish conspiracy theory that has achieved a cult following. Oh, and it will never be proven.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-23   14:11:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#160. To: Mister Clean, aristeides, Zipporah, robin, christine (#148)

aristeides: I notice you don't say you're not a Zionist.

Mister Clean: If Zionist means to support the existence of the state of Israel then I most definitely am a Zionist.

The following article by a Northwestern U professor provides a dispassionate description, couched in factual history together with Biblical references, regarding the aims and beliefs of Zionists/Zionism.

Does the description fit you, Mr. Clean?

http://www.counterpunch.o rg/shahid05212007.html

"Zionism and the Doctrine of Election"

scrapper2  posted on  2007-09-23   14:16:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#161. To: scrapper2 (#160)

Does the description fit you, Mr. Clean?

I don't care.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-23   14:17:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: YertleTurtle (#155)

No, they can't, and no matter how much I or anyone else explains how the belief in impossible conspiracies leads to truly evil behavior, and genocide, none can open their brains just a tiny little crack to even consider it.

That's the most utter bullshit I've read in a very long time.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-09-23   14:18:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#163. To: Mister Clean (#161)

Does the description fit you, Mr. Clean?

I don't care.

You weren't so dispassionate about stating your support of Israel.

In fact, besides raw capitalism, it's the only other time you've shown any real interest in anything on this 4um.

How are your plans for leaving America?

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-09-23   14:21:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#164. To: robin (#163)

How are your plans for leaving America?

Fine, thanks.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-23   14:24:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#165. To: Mister Clean (#164)

great news

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-09-23   14:25:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#166. To: scrapper2 (#160)

The Zionist plans for a Jewish state required a Jewish majority in Palestine, and preferably a territory cleansed of its native inhabitants.

That is special.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-09-23   14:26:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#167. To: Mister Clean (#159) (Edited)

Sure, psychotic clown.

What's your best alleged debunk for yellow-hot "molten metal" being evidence of pre-planted redox charges? Same ludicrous one as NISTs? Will you refer me to the alleged picture of "molten aluminum" glowing yellow- hot provided by the cards at Popular Mechanics, or to zionist clown Steven Chastain's page where he mixes two different ovens with two different molten metals and calls them all molten aluminum pictures? Perhaps you'll point to the youtube where some other zionist clown burns thermite and claims he made it out of aluminum and gypsum board, or maybe you'll show me the other "debunker"- linked alleged "glowing yellow aluminum" photos at wtc7lies, including other miscaptiond and/or color- altered photos where aluminum is supposedly heated to yellow hot.

All I can say if you do, is where's that zionist psychotically-inspired refractory-brick-insulated aluminum-melting oven hiding inside that tower, spilling out all that overheated over-heavy glowing-yellow "aluminum"-sic stuff? Must suck when chemistry lets you down like that.

Fan of Jerome Hauer? I have an odd copy of a little mis-captioned and correspondingly rigged up photo of alleged wtc7 damage and he apparently had no trouble tolerating it or a "copyright nypd" label upon it. But wait, seems there's another Giuliani guy, Kerik, who's in the legal doghouse for, ironically enough, some unreported structural alterations. How'd that happen, with him being Giuliani's (the zionist darling) right-hand guy once?

nobody  posted on  2007-09-23   14:30:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#168. To: nobody (#167)

What's your best alleged debunk for yellow-hot "molten metal" being evidence of pre-planted redox charges?

I have absolutely no interest in trying to debunk your conspiratorial beliefs.

It's a waste of time.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-23   14:33:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#169. To: Mister Clean (#168)

Zionists absolutely hate taking responsibility for their acts.

Hence the constant lying and false-flags.

Take you, for example, a vicious, yet pathetic and laughable, lying murderous cover-up clown who is trying with no luck to play sane and unbiased on the internet, fully aware the goverment and mainstream media agree with you, yet still unsatisfied.

Must be dizzying.

nobody  posted on  2007-09-23   14:40:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#170. To: Mister Clean (#168)

"It's a waste of time."

If what is usually discussed here on 4Um offends or bores you, you know where the door is.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-09-23   14:40:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#171. To: Ferret Mike (#170)

If what is usually discussed here on 4Um offends or bores you, you know where the door is.

Debating kook conspiracy beliefs with kooks is definitely a waste of time.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-23   14:41:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#172. To: robin, Mister Clean (#163) (Edited)

You weren't so dispassionate about stating your support of Israel.

In fact, besides raw capitalism, it's the only other time you've shown any real interest in anything on this 4um.

Unqualified support/defense of Israel, globalism, and an authoritarian central gub'ment are central to the neozio's docterine. It's little wonder that those are the main subjects of interest to Mr. Clean.

From the horse's mouth:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/000tzmlw .asp

"The Neo-Conservative Persuation"

...One of these policies, most visible and controversial, is cutting tax rates in order to stimulate steady economic growth...

...The cost of this emphasis on economic growth has been an attitude toward public finance that is far less risk averse than is the case among more traditional conservatives. Neocons would prefer not to have large budget deficits, but it is in the nature of democracy--because it seems to be in the nature of human nature--that political demagogy will frequently result in economic recklessness, so that one sometimes must shoulder budgetary deficits as the cost (temporary, one hopes) of pursuing economic growth....

...Neocons do not feel that kind of alarm or anxiety about the growth of the state in the past century, seeing it as natural, indeed inevitable. People have always preferred strong government to weak government, although they certainly have no liking for anything that smacks of overly intrusive government....

...Finally, for a great power, the "national interest" is not a geographical term, except for fairly prosaic matters like trade and environmental regulation....

....Barring extraordinary events, the United States will always feel obliged to defend, if possible, a democratic nation under attack from nondemocratic forces, external or internal. That is why we feel it necessary to defend Israel today, when its survival is threatened. No complicated geopolitical calculations of national interest are necessary...

...Behind all this is a fact: the incredible military superiority of the United States vis-à-vis the nations of the rest of the world, in any imaginable combination...And it is a fact that if you have the kind of power we now have, either you will find opportunities to use it, or the world will discover them for you...

scrapper2  posted on  2007-09-23   14:43:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#173. To: Mister Clean (#161)

Wiki on Bernie:

"Critics state that Giuliani showed consistently poor judgment in promoting the career of Bernard Kerik, who started out as a New York Police Department detective driving for his campaign, then became the city's Correction Commissioner and later police commissioner and a founder of Giuliani Partners. Giuliani then pushed President Bush to nominate Kerik to be secretary of Homeland Security, at which point multiple scandals derailed the nomination and Kerik's career; subsequently Kerik pled guilty to corruption charges dating from his Corrections days.[8] In March of 2007, The New York Times reported that Kerik was likely to also be indicted for tax fraud and illegal eavesdropping, and also disclosed that Giuliani had testified under oath in April 2006 that he had in fact been briefed on Kerik's mob links in 2000 52; prior to his appointment of Kerik as Corrections Commissioner. Giuliani had previously denied knowing of these connections until years later."

This "corruption charges" thing, do you think that's like saying Bernie was in on some sort of (gulp) a "conspiracy?"

Which authority figure does it take, again, to bring the conspiracy out of theoretical territory? The Loose Change guys? Oh haha, you funny zionist clown, it's all a joke to you.

nobody  posted on  2007-09-23   15:02:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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