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Title: Federal Approval To Travel WITHIN The US Soon?
Source:
Daily Kos via Rense
URL Source: http://rense.com/general78/fedd.htm
Published: Sep 22, 2007
Author: Blue Patriot Woman
Post Date: 2007-09-22 00:06:15 by Zipporah
Keywords: None
Views: 1224
Comments: 87
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p102/484384.pdf Federal Approval To Travel WITHIN The US Soon? http://blue-patriot-woman.dailykos.com/ 9-20-7 Buried in the September 5 issue of the Federal Register, was a notice that Thursday, September 20, the Transportation Safety Administration (TSA) will hold public hearings on their so-called Secure Flight Plan. http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p102/484384.pdf Come with me into a nightmare world where American citizens will have to obtain permission from the government before they can travel by air in the U.S. Your government (meaning the Department of Homeland Security) is up to no good. Beginning in February 2008, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) will implement their ¨Advance Passenger Information System (APIS),¨ the gist of which is that you will need permission from the United States Government to travel on any air or sea vessel that goes to, from or through the U.S. The travel companies will not be able to issue a boarding pass until you are cleared by DHS. This applies to ALL passengers, US citizens and visitors alike. And how do you get said permission to travel? That´s for your government to know and you to never find out. Now TSA proposes to do for domestic travel what APIS will do for international routes. That´s what I said: the new TSA rule would require that you obtain PERMISSION to travel within the U.S. Here is the summary of their proposed rules, which seem so reasonable, couched as they are in the blandness of governmenteez [emphasis added]. The Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act (IRTPA) requires the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to assume from aircraft operators the function of conducting pre-flight comparisons of airline passenger information to Federal Government watch lists for international and domestic flights. [snip] This rule proposes to allow TSA to ... receive passenger and certain non-traveler information, conduct watch list matching ... and transmit boarding pass printing instructions back to aircraft operators. [snip] TSA would do so in a consistent and accurate manner while minimizing false matches and protecting privacy information. Right. And I have a bridge in Brooklyn... We propose that, when the Secure Flight rule becomes final, aircraft operators would submit passenger information to DHS through a single DHS portal for both the Secure Flight and APIS programs. This would [result] in one DHS system responsible for watch list matching for all aviation passengers. Don´t you feel great knowing that your government will use economies of scale to protect you? <Edward>http://hasbrouck.org/blog/>Edward Hasbrough states that these rules are more insidious than merely complying to demands for ¨Your papers please.¨ He states, The proposal ... require[s] that travellers display their government-issued credentials not to government agents but to airline personnel (staff or contractors), whenever the DHS orders the airline to demand them. But since the orders to demand ID of [certain passengers] will be given to the airline in secret, ... travellers will have no way to verify whether ... demands for ID are actually based on government orders. Think about that: you will not be allowed to verify if the person demanding your papers is actually authorized to do so. In addition, the airlines or their contractors (or sub or even sub sub contractors) have the right, under the proposed rules, to do anything they like with your personal information including: keep copies of your passport ... as long as they like, use it, publish it, broadcast it, sell it, rent it, or pass it on to whomever they please.... [T]hey would have no obligation to get your permission for any of this. Aside from the privacy issue, this is the DHS. Their past performance is an indication of future returns and we can look forward to true travel nightmares beginning February 19, 2008. Just think about the mess that occurred when CBP demanded that travelers to Canada and Mexico have a passport. Multiply that by orders of magnitude to imagine what travelers will be facing. If you can, please attend the TSA hearings on Thursday (Grand Hyatt Washington, 1000 H Street, N.W. beginning at 8:00am). If you can´t attend in person, you have until October 22, 2007 to submit written comments through the <Docket>http://dms.dot.gov/>Docket Management System. The docket number is TSA-2007-28572. The Identity Project at Papers Please is working to prevent your government from robbing you of your right to privacy in your movements.
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#26. To: Mister Clean, noone222 (#23)
Mr. Clean: If you feel threatened that's your problem. I don't. I have no doubt that this pending restrictive policy re: inter-state travel would not worry you, Mr. Clean. It only applies to American residents not to Israelis.
The silver lining in this black cloud - at least from my perspective - is this...in 11 months 8 days 7 hours and 6 minutes, neocon Trotskyites like Comrade Jerkoff are going to become ordinary American citizens...ergo so it follows that the sinister tangled webs they have woven while in gov't office will soon apply to THEM! Mr. Jerkoff, your papers please...sigh, music to my ears when that day happens and it steadily approaches....
Somehow I think they might not think that prudent. They might get a boot up their ass.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition Well, since you asked politely, yes, comrade.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.
That's a laughable statement. Over a half million names are on the NO FLY list, most of them people who are Americans on the Bush Political Shit List. Your Supreme Court has allowed a complete raping of the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th amendments in the name of security, and in so doing, have made travel in this country subject to anytime, anywhere hassling by government hired modern day Pinkerton agents.
Do you really think so?
"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma Gandhi
Hey shill. May you receive your due when your masters and their children are dragged from their fortresses, stripped of their rights and paraded down main street.
"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma Gandhi
You first.
I travel all the time with no problems from any government officials.
Why should something that doesn't exist worry me?
I'm not worried about Secure Flight.
So what? A good government shill like you doesn't need to worry. What are they going to accuse you of, not jumping high enough while you're cheerleading for them? Your answer to a half million political enemies of the president being on the NO FLY list is to say you're not on it. That isn't logic, it's myopic narcissism.
The people on the no-fly list are not my problem.
They're a problem for anyone who isn't a Nazi.
So what are you doing about it besides whining on an Internet forum?
Injustice anywhere is a threat to peace and freedom everywhere. This is everyone's problem, and one of many symtoms of the disease of corporate fascism this country suffers from thanks to crime syndicates like the one Smirk and Snarl belong to. They won't stop with banning political adversaries from air travel either. Expect surface transportation to get much harder to do too.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
bingo
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
That is a very cheap and generic flame job. What else do you do besides flick your bic lighter of an intellect online? That tiny flame-on baiting you do here cuts both ways.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Is there a list of all the political adversaries who have been banned from air travel? Funny how they haven't sued over this injustice.
It's a legitimate question. If you and others are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo concerned about the "fascism" of air travel security, you should be doing more than posting to an obscure Internet forum.
Not obscure enough for a govt shill like you to be minding the store. Remember what I said about your due.
"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma Gandhi
Yawn.
The shadow government culture of plausible denial being more important then equal treatment under the law does what the do in a way that reduces the liabilities of doing what they do. I expect to see more lawsuits as they clamp down, and I expect to see even stronger attacks against the rights to use civil court then have come from the Bushies so far in the next few years.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Oh yeah, of course. [eye roll]
If you can only give me a chronology of your facial antics this morning, what good are you? Discuss, or shut up. If I want chimp tactics, I'll go to the zoo and observe the monkeyhouse. I am in no way impressed by your pedestrian ways.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Let's discuss all the "political adversaries" who have been banned from air travel. Got a list of names?
You mean you don't know anyone who has not suffered this harassment? I am part of the activist community here in my community, and yes, I know people who have had to get their names removed from the no fly list, if they even bothered. And there are plenty of news stories that have been carried by even the MSM about people denied air travel for what boiled down to ideological reasons. This gate keeping is one form of harassment that the fascists in this administration use to try to shut up their enemies and disrupt legal political activity. We see and know what is happening here in the United States that is unconstitutional and violates the standard of equal treatment under the law here at 4UM, and that is why we talk about things like the tactics that really are used in building the current no fly lists used at U.S. airports. If you have a Pollyanna attitude about how things are in this county under the Bush Administration and think this lobotomized cheer leading of yours you use to try to spread it will get you anywhere in forum here, you are deluded, and in the wrong place.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
I know thousands of folks on the no-fly list. And they are NOT Arabs OR "terrorists." I talk to them everyday ass- clown. Will I supply you their names? Not on your life, idiot.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition What are their names?
You "know thousands" huh? Right.
CBS reported on the 8 October 2006 edition of 60 Minutes that they had obtained a copy of the list dated March 2006 that contains 44,000 names.[2] "Unlikely Terrorists On No-Fly List", 60 Minutes, CBS News, 8 October 2006. Retrieved on 2006-12-16.
Well, we're a nation of 300+ million so if they're serious about restricting free movement in this country they're gonna have to do better than that.
.. you've said you like to debate.. I say that was a lie.. you dont debate ..youre not here to debate ..youre here obviously to be disruptive .. which is not a free speech issue..
I'm here to bring some balance to this forum.
Balance? I take no issue with disagreement..hmm well maybe I've misunderstood you.. possibly it's ignorance.. possibly you dont understand the definition of the word debate: Debate: a : to contend in words b : to discuss a question by considering opposed arguments Discuss: a : to investigate by reasoning or argument b : to present in detail for examination or consideration Come back when you reflect on the above..
my husband is on it as a *potential risk* whatever that means. he's a doctor. the only thing he's ever done is dispute IRS and speak on the fiat money system and the federal reserve on alternative news radio shows.
The question is who took it upon themselves to place him there and how did they get that much "authority?" SHADOW GOVERNMENT is for real.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition I'll tell you what I'm not going to do. Let some government suck ass like you ask me questions.
I don't think I'm a "political adversary", but I'm banned from air travel. Granted, it's a self-imposed ban (as far as I know, but hell for all I know I might be "on the list") - they want too much info, things like ID. I simply don't qualify.
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. Just as I thought, you're not doing anything but whining.
Comments (67 - 87) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latestnoone222: some might feel it's sinsister ...
#27. To: Zipporah, All (#0)
#28. To: Zipporah, christine, fred mertz (#0)
If you can, please attend the TSA hearings
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#29. To: angle (#3)
What's next, roadblocks at state borders? Your papers comrade?
#30. To: Mister Clean, robin (#10)
(Edited)
There are no attempts to restrict free movement in America as tens of thousands of people travel each and every day on planes, trains, ships and automobiles.
#31. To: scrapper2 (#27)
in 11 months 8 days 7 hours and 6 minutes, neocon Trotskyites like Comrade Jerkoff are going to become ordinary American citizens
#32. To: Mister Clean (#21)
#33. To: angle (#32)
May you receive your due when your masters and their children are dragged from their fortresses, stripped of their rights and paraded down main street.
#34. To: Paul Revere (#30)
Your Supreme Court has allowed a complete raping of the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th amendments in the name of security, and in so doing, have made travel in this country subject to anytime, anywhere hassling by government hired modern day Pinkerton agents.
#35. To: scrapper2 (#26)
I have no doubt that this pending restrictive policy re: inter-state travel would not worry you, Mr. Clean.
#36. To: Mister Clean (#35)
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p102/484384.pdf
#37. To: Zipporah (#36)
#38. To: Mister Clean (#34)
I travel all the time with no problems from any government officials.
#39. To: Paul Revere (#38)
Your answer to a half million political enemies of the president being on the NO FLY list is to say you're not on it. That isn't logic, it's myopic narcissism.
#40. To: Mister Clean (#39)
The people on the no-fly list are not my problem.
#41. To: Paul Revere (#40)
They're a problem for anyone who isn't a Nazi.
#42. To: Mister Clean (#39)
"The people on the no-fly list are not my problem."
#43. To: Paul Revere (#38)
So what? A good government shill like you doesn't need to worry. What are they going to accuse you of, not jumping high enough while you're cheerleading for them?
#44. To: Mister Clean (#41)
"So what are you doing about it besides whining on an Internet forum?"
#45. To: Ferret Mike (#42)
They won't stop with banning political adversaries from air travel either.
#46. To: Ferret Mike (#44)
That is a very cheap and generic flame job.
#47. To: Mister Clean (#46)
(Edited)
an obscure Internet forum
#48. To: angle (#47)
Not obscure enough for a govt shill like you to be minding the store.
#49. To: Mister Clean (#45)
"Funny how they haven't sued over this injustice."
#50. To: Ferret Mike (#49)
The shadow government culture of plausible denial being more important then equal treatment under the law does what the do in a way that reduces the liabilities of doing what they do.
#51. To: Mister Clean (#50)
(Edited)
#52. To: Ferret Mike (#51)
Discuss, or shut up.
#53. To: Mister Clean (#52)
#54. To: Mister Clean (#52)
(Edited)
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#55. To: Ferret Mike (#53)
And there are plenty of news stories that have been carried by even the MSM about people denied air travel for what boiled down to ideological reasons.
#56. To: IndieTX (#54)
I know thousands of folks on the no-fly list.
#57. To: Mister Clean (#55)
#58. To: Zipporah (#57)
CBS reported on the 8 October 2006 edition of 60 Minutes that they had obtained a copy of the list dated March 2006 that contains 44,000 names.
#59. To: Mister Clean (#58)
(Edited)
#60. To: Zipporah (#59)
youre here obviously to be disruptive ..
#61. To: Mister Clean (#60)
I'm here to bring some balance to this forum.
#62. To: IndieTX (#54)
#63. To: christine (#62)
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#64. To: Mister Clean (#41)
So what are you doing about it besides whining on an Internet forum?
#65. To: Mister Clean (#45)
Is there a list of all the political adversaries who have been banned from air travel?
Steven Wright
#66. To: Paul Revere (#64)
I'll tell you what I'm not going to do. Let some government suck ass like you ask me questions.
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