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Title: Federal Approval To Travel WITHIN The US Soon?
Source:
Daily Kos via Rense
URL Source: http://rense.com/general78/fedd.htm
Published: Sep 22, 2007
Author: Blue Patriot Woman
Post Date: 2007-09-22 00:06:15 by Zipporah
Keywords: None
Views: 1339
Comments: 87
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p102/484384.pdf Federal Approval To Travel WITHIN The US Soon? http://blue-patriot-woman.dailykos.com/ 9-20-7 Buried in the September 5 issue of the Federal Register, was a notice that Thursday, September 20, the Transportation Safety Administration (TSA) will hold public hearings on their so-called Secure Flight Plan. http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p102/484384.pdf Come with me into a nightmare world where American citizens will have to obtain permission from the government before they can travel by air in the U.S. Your government (meaning the Department of Homeland Security) is up to no good. Beginning in February 2008, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) will implement their ¨Advance Passenger Information System (APIS),¨ the gist of which is that you will need permission from the United States Government to travel on any air or sea vessel that goes to, from or through the U.S. The travel companies will not be able to issue a boarding pass until you are cleared by DHS. This applies to ALL passengers, US citizens and visitors alike. And how do you get said permission to travel? That´s for your government to know and you to never find out. Now TSA proposes to do for domestic travel what APIS will do for international routes. That´s what I said: the new TSA rule would require that you obtain PERMISSION to travel within the U.S. Here is the summary of their proposed rules, which seem so reasonable, couched as they are in the blandness of governmenteez [emphasis added]. The Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act (IRTPA) requires the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to assume from aircraft operators the function of conducting pre-flight comparisons of airline passenger information to Federal Government watch lists for international and domestic flights. [snip] This rule proposes to allow TSA to ... receive passenger and certain non-traveler information, conduct watch list matching ... and transmit boarding pass printing instructions back to aircraft operators. [snip] TSA would do so in a consistent and accurate manner while minimizing false matches and protecting privacy information. Right. And I have a bridge in Brooklyn... We propose that, when the Secure Flight rule becomes final, aircraft operators would submit passenger information to DHS through a single DHS portal for both the Secure Flight and APIS programs. This would [result] in one DHS system responsible for watch list matching for all aviation passengers. Don´t you feel great knowing that your government will use economies of scale to protect you? <Edward>http://hasbrouck.org/blog/>Edward Hasbrough states that these rules are more insidious than merely complying to demands for ¨Your papers please.¨ He states, The proposal ... require[s] that travellers display their government-issued credentials not to government agents but to airline personnel (staff or contractors), whenever the DHS orders the airline to demand them. But since the orders to demand ID of [certain passengers] will be given to the airline in secret, ... travellers will have no way to verify whether ... demands for ID are actually based on government orders. Think about that: you will not be allowed to verify if the person demanding your papers is actually authorized to do so. In addition, the airlines or their contractors (or sub or even sub sub contractors) have the right, under the proposed rules, to do anything they like with your personal information including: keep copies of your passport ... as long as they like, use it, publish it, broadcast it, sell it, rent it, or pass it on to whomever they please.... [T]hey would have no obligation to get your permission for any of this. Aside from the privacy issue, this is the DHS. Their past performance is an indication of future returns and we can look forward to true travel nightmares beginning February 19, 2008. Just think about the mess that occurred when CBP demanded that travelers to Canada and Mexico have a passport. Multiply that by orders of magnitude to imagine what travelers will be facing. If you can, please attend the TSA hearings on Thursday (Grand Hyatt Washington, 1000 H Street, N.W. beginning at 8:00am). If you can´t attend in person, you have until October 22, 2007 to submit written comments through the <Docket>http://dms.dot.gov/>Docket Management System. The docket number is TSA-2007-28572. The Identity Project at Papers Please is working to prevent your government from robbing you of your right to privacy in your movements.
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#48. To: angle (#47)
Yawn.
The shadow government culture of plausible denial being more important then equal treatment under the law does what the do in a way that reduces the liabilities of doing what they do. I expect to see more lawsuits as they clamp down, and I expect to see even stronger attacks against the rights to use civil court then have come from the Bushies so far in the next few years.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Oh yeah, of course. [eye roll]
If you can only give me a chronology of your facial antics this morning, what good are you? Discuss, or shut up. If I want chimp tactics, I'll go to the zoo and observe the monkeyhouse. I am in no way impressed by your pedestrian ways.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Let's discuss all the "political adversaries" who have been banned from air travel. Got a list of names?
You mean you don't know anyone who has not suffered this harassment? I am part of the activist community here in my community, and yes, I know people who have had to get their names removed from the no fly list, if they even bothered. And there are plenty of news stories that have been carried by even the MSM about people denied air travel for what boiled down to ideological reasons. This gate keeping is one form of harassment that the fascists in this administration use to try to shut up their enemies and disrupt legal political activity. We see and know what is happening here in the United States that is unconstitutional and violates the standard of equal treatment under the law here at 4UM, and that is why we talk about things like the tactics that really are used in building the current no fly lists used at U.S. airports. If you have a Pollyanna attitude about how things are in this county under the Bush Administration and think this lobotomized cheer leading of yours you use to try to spread it will get you anywhere in forum here, you are deluded, and in the wrong place.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
I know thousands of folks on the no-fly list. And they are NOT Arabs OR "terrorists." I talk to them everyday ass- clown. Will I supply you their names? Not on your life, idiot.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition What are their names?
You "know thousands" huh? Right.
CBS reported on the 8 October 2006 edition of 60 Minutes that they had obtained a copy of the list dated March 2006 that contains 44,000 names.[2] "Unlikely Terrorists On No-Fly List", 60 Minutes, CBS News, 8 October 2006. Retrieved on 2006-12-16.
Well, we're a nation of 300+ million so if they're serious about restricting free movement in this country they're gonna have to do better than that.
.. you've said you like to debate.. I say that was a lie.. you dont debate ..youre not here to debate ..youre here obviously to be disruptive .. which is not a free speech issue..
I'm here to bring some balance to this forum.
Balance? I take no issue with disagreement..hmm well maybe I've misunderstood you.. possibly it's ignorance.. possibly you dont understand the definition of the word debate: Debate: a : to contend in words b : to discuss a question by considering opposed arguments Discuss: a : to investigate by reasoning or argument b : to present in detail for examination or consideration Come back when you reflect on the above..
my husband is on it as a *potential risk* whatever that means. he's a doctor. the only thing he's ever done is dispute IRS and speak on the fiat money system and the federal reserve on alternative news radio shows.
The question is who took it upon themselves to place him there and how did they get that much "authority?" SHADOW GOVERNMENT is for real.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition I'll tell you what I'm not going to do. Let some government suck ass like you ask me questions.
I don't think I'm a "political adversary", but I'm banned from air travel. Granted, it's a self-imposed ban (as far as I know, but hell for all I know I might be "on the list") - they want too much info, things like ID. I simply don't qualify.
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. Just as I thought, you're not doing anything but whining.
WTF is a "non-traveler?" Someone that has a driver's license.
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. My papers say - DRIVER LICENSE - with my all CAPS information. Police state bump.
Why don't ya just get a big 666 tatooed on your block-head, like Mr. Clean !!! [Hahahahahaha] !
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
How are you harmed by providing ID?
Of course it's not. It's all about SAFETY. But I don't think that program is working out so good. I'd like to see the stats on the number of accidents caused by folks that don't have a DL compared to those that DO. I have a suspicion that the "unlicensed" ones have a better safety record...
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. You suspicion is based on what?
They won't let me have a state-issued ID. They require me to provide a SS# as per Federal Regulations in Section 666 I'm just not going there...
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. I'm just not going there... Sounds like you're just shooting yourself in the foot.
Based upon the admission of a traffic court judge. The last time I went before a judge for a "no DL ticket". I told the judge "This is the only thing I'm ever in here for. I bet you see worse offenses everyday - some of which probably resulted in an accident, which MAY have been a SERIOUS accident no less - and they ALL have a DL." The judge said "You're right", and proceeded to fine me $1
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. I think that you're 100% correct about that, unless you mix in the unlicensed illegals here.
The judge said "You're right", and proceeded to fine me $1 Has it occurred to you that perhaps since most people have licenses, most accidents would obviously involve licensed drivers?
Well I'm one of those KOOKS that actually BELIEVES in Scripture. As far as I can tell, I still have the RIGHT of Religious Free Exercise. Anyhow, according to the words of the Messiah in Scripture: In the Social Security System, the government is called the benefactor. The applicant is the "beneficiary". If I'm not mistaken, God said "don't go there". So like a good little kid, I'm not questioning daddy's orders; I'm just obeying.
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. Having a SSN doesn't prevent you from exercising your right to religion.
Bible belief and "religion" are two completely different subjects. SS makes one "TRUST" in man ... Bible belief causes one to TRUST God. All we have to offer God is our complete TRUST.
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
Of course. Can you follow simple math? I'm going to presume you can. Now let's work through this together... For simplicity's sake lets say we have a group of 10,000 people that have a driver's license, and they collectively cause 300 wrecks. Then we have a group of 100 people that DON'T have a driver's license, and they collectively cause 2 wrecks. Which group has the better "safety record"? Would it be the group that has a 2% accident ratio, or the group that has a 3% accident ratio? Has it occurred to YOU that perhaps the folks that DON'T have a DL actually pay better attention to their driving? After all they don't want to be speeding, or not fully stopping at stop signs, or not using turn signals, or any of a number of things that may get them pulled over... (When I got the no DL ticket I was talking about the "reason" I got stopped is because the license plate light was not working - unbeknownst to me)
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. No, but it very well may violate your religious beliefs. It does mine.
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. Just as I thought. You're Larry Craig and you're just looking to play with someone's balls. Not mine, Nancy boy. Now run on along and find another man to proposition, Mister Clean.
I do. And if you knew me better, you would realize this baseline admonishment is stupid. I have been nearly killed doing non-violent civil disobedience and have the scars and loss of movement in my arms because of this. I am the one who kept Nader off the ballot in Oregon and as the whistle blower to cheating the petition gatherers were doing, I spoke at the press conference announcing the investigation into it at the SEIU Union headquarters in Portland, Oregon. I an involved in many community activities here in Eugene, Oregon. I am no keyboard warrior. Ferret Mike is my real life nickname, my real name is Mike McCarthy, and my picture is in my homepage here, click on my nick and see it. I am a well known public face locally. And this is solely because I use my political efficacy very actively. ;-D
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Pinging for Mr. Balance. where are ya Mr. Balance the forum? (SIC)
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
I respect that.
I doubt there is any evidence to support that idea.
Not obscure enough for a govt shill like you to be minding the store.
#49. To: Mister Clean (#45)
"Funny how they haven't sued over this injustice."
#50. To: Ferret Mike (#49)
The shadow government culture of plausible denial being more important then equal treatment under the law does what the do in a way that reduces the liabilities of doing what they do.
#51. To: Mister Clean (#50)
(Edited)
#52. To: Ferret Mike (#51)
Discuss, or shut up.
#53. To: Mister Clean (#52)
#54. To: Mister Clean (#52)
(Edited)
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#55. To: Ferret Mike (#53)
And there are plenty of news stories that have been carried by even the MSM about people denied air travel for what boiled down to ideological reasons.
#56. To: IndieTX (#54)
I know thousands of folks on the no-fly list.
#57. To: Mister Clean (#55)
#58. To: Zipporah (#57)
CBS reported on the 8 October 2006 edition of 60 Minutes that they had obtained a copy of the list dated March 2006 that contains 44,000 names.
#59. To: Mister Clean (#58)
(Edited)
#60. To: Zipporah (#59)
youre here obviously to be disruptive ..
#61. To: Mister Clean (#60)
I'm here to bring some balance to this forum.
#62. To: IndieTX (#54)
#63. To: christine (#62)
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#64. To: Mister Clean (#41)
So what are you doing about it besides whining on an Internet forum?
#65. To: Mister Clean (#45)
Is there a list of all the political adversaries who have been banned from air travel?
Steven Wright
#66. To: Paul Revere (#64)
I'll tell you what I'm not going to do. Let some government suck ass like you ask me questions.
#67. To: lodwick (#13)
This rule proposes to allow TSA to ... receive passenger and certain non-traveler information, ...
Steven Wright
#68. To: innieway (#67)
Someone that has a driver's license.
#69. To: lodwick (#68)
(Edited)
#70. To: innieway (#65)
they want too much info, things like ID.
#71. To: Mister Clean (#15)
The driver's license is not designed to RESTRICT a person's ability to travel.
Steven Wright
#72. To: innieway (#71)
I have a suspicion that the "unlicensed" ones have a better safety record...
#73. To: Mister Clean (#70)
How are you harmed by providing ID?
Steven Wright
#74. To: innieway (#73)
They won't let me have a state-issued ID. They require me to provide a SS# as per Federal Regulations in Section 666
#75. To: Mister Clean (#72)
You suspicion is based on what?
Steven Wright
#76. To: innieway, noone222 (#71)
I have a suspicion that the "unlicensed" ones have a better safety record...
#77. To: innieway (#75)
Based upon the admission of a traffic court judge. The last time I went before a judge for a "no DL ticket". I told the judge "This is the only thing I'm ever in here for. I bet you see worse offenses everyday - some of which probably resulted in an accident, which MAY have been a SERIOUS accident no less - and they ALL have a DL."
#78. To: Mister Clean (#74)
Sounds like you're just shooting yourself in the foot.
Luke 22:25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. 26 But ye [shall] not [be] so
Steven Wright
#79. To: innieway (#78)
Well I'm one of those KOOKS that actually BELIEVES in Scripture. As far as I can tell, I still have the RIGHT of Religious Free Exercise.
#80. To: Mister Clean (#79)
(Edited)
#81. To: Mister Clean (#77)
Has it occurred to you that perhaps since most people have licenses, most accidents would obviously involve licensed drivers?
Steven Wright
#82. To: Mister Clean (#79)
Having a SSN doesn't prevent you from exercising your right to religion.
Steven Wright
#83. To: Mister Clean (#66)
Just as I thought, you're not doing anything but whining.
#84. To: Mister Clean (#46)
"If you and others are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo concerned about the "fascism" of air travel security, you should be doing more than posting to an obscure Internet forum."
#85. To: Mister Clean (#79)
#86. To: Ferret Mike (#84)
I an involved in many community activities here in Eugene, Oregon. I am no keyboard warrior.
#87. To: innieway (#81)
Has it occurred to YOU that perhaps the folks that DON'T have a DL actually pay better attention to their driving?
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