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Title: VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
Source:
http://www.newswithviews.com
URL Source: http://www.newswithviews.com/Pratt/larry81.htm
Published: Sep 22, 2007
Author: Larry Pratt
Post Date: 2007-09-23 04:56:39 by robin
Keywords: None
Views: 520
Comments: 23
Hundreds of thousands of veterans -- from Vietnam through Operation Iraqi Freedom -- are at risk of being banned from buying firearms if legislation that is pending in Congress gets enacted. How? The Veterans Disarmament Act -- which has already passed the House -- would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list. This is exactly what President Bill Clinton did over seven years ago when his administration illegitimately added some 83,000 veterans into the National Criminal Information System (NICS system) -- prohibiting them from purchasing firearms, simply because of afflictions like PTSD. The proposed ban is actually broader. Anyone who is diagnosed as being a tiny danger to himself or others would have his gun rights taken away ... forever. It is section 102(b)(1)(C)(iv) in HR 2640 that provides for dumping raw medical records into the system. Those names -- like the 83,000 records mentioned above -- will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning. No wonder the Military Order of the Purple Heart is opposed to this legislation. The House bill, HR 2640, is being sponsored by one of the most flaming anti-Second Amendment Representatives in Congress: Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY). Another liberal anti-gunner, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), is sponsoring the bill in the Senate. Proponents of the bill say that helpful amendments have been made so that any veteran who gets his name on the NICS list can seek an expungement. But whenever you talk about expunging names from the Brady NICS system, you’re talking about a procedure that has always been a long shot. Right now, there are NO EXPUNGEMENTS of law-abiding Americans’ names that are taking place under federal level. Why? Because the expungement process which already exists has been blocked for over a decade by a "funds cut-off" engineered by another anti-gunner, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY). So how will this bill make things even worse? Well, two legal terms are radically redefined in the Veterans Disarmament Act to carry out this vicious attack on veterans’ gun rights. One term relates to who is classified a "mental defective." Forty years ago that term meant one was adjudicated "not guilty" in a court of law by reason of insanity. But under the Veterans Disarmament Act, "mental defective" has been stretched to include anyone whom a psychiatrist determines might be a tiny danger to self or others. The second term is "adjudicate." In the past, one could only lose one's gun rights through an adjudication by a judge, magistrate or court -- meaning conviction after a trial. Adjudication could only occur in a court with all the protections of due process, including the right to face one's accuser. Now, adjudication in HR 2640 would include a finding by "a court, commission, committee or other authorized person" (namely, a psychiatrist). Forget the fact that people with PTSD have the same violent crime rate as the rest of us. Vietnam vets with PTSD have had careers and obtained permits to carry firearms concealed. It will now be enough for a psychiatric diagnosis (a "determination" in the language of the bill) to get a veteran barred for life from owning guns. Think of what this bill would do to veterans. If a robber grabs your wallet and takes everything in it, but gives you back $5 to take the bus home, would you call that a financial enhancement? If not, then we should not let HR 2640 supporters call the permission to seek an expungement an enhancement, when prior to this bill, veterans could not legitimately be denied their gun rights after being diagnosed with PTSD. Veterans with PTSD should not be put in a position to seek an expungement. They have not been convicted (after a trial with due process) of doing anything wrong. If a veteran is thought to be a threat to self or others, there should be a real trial, not an opinion (called a diagnosis) by a psychiatrist. If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished." © 2007 Larry Pratt - All Rights Reserved Sign Up For Free E-Mail Alerts E-Mails are used strictly for NWVs alerts, not for sale Larry Pratt has been Executive Director of Gun Owners of America for 27 years. GOA is a national membership organization of 300,000 Americans dedicated to promoting their second amendment freedom to keep and bear arms. He published a book, Armed People Victorious, in 1990 and was editor of a book, Safeguarding Liberty: The Constitution & Militias, 1995. His latest book, On the Firing Line: Essays in the Defense of Liberty was published in 2001. The GOA web site is: http://gunowners.org. Pratt's weekly talk show Live Fire is archived there at: http://www.gunowners.org/radio.htm E-Mail: ldpratt@gunowners.org Either Pratt or another GOA spokesman is available for press interviews.
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#1. To: robin (#0)
Another reason for the Iraq war.
In a free society with a Constitution and a second amendment, there will always be tragedies involving (1) guns, (2) a veteran, and (3) killing. It's merely a function of numbers. There are millions of vets, and some of them will end up getting a gun and shooting someone. Only a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of them will ever hurt anyone besides themselves after they leave service. Instead of giving vets proper treatment for PTSD, they're playing like a friggin insurance company and finding reasons to deny vets treatment. Disgusting. I can remember being a gung ho military man and believing every word they told me. I can remember learning different over time, too.
Sounds to me like the neocons fear these returning vets who are being mistreated not only by not receiving proper care, but fear them because they were overused with multi tours of duty in the neocons illegal war.
Coming soon to everyone.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition The "tip" of the iceberg ... losing friends and family members in a war never meant to be won, started through lies at a minimum, or worse a false flag event, might concern returning vets that could easily be diagnosed with PTSD after serving 4-5 tours of duty in the desert. Maybe someone else would loan them a weapon if they promised to make good use of it.
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
If they want a gun for whatever reason, they'll get one, legal or otherwise. They'll make good use of it!
The bottom line on any product, goods, or service - if you want it, it's out there.
That's probably true, but remember, much of the concerns about vets and guns arose after the whole OKC thing. The theme by the shadow government during the Clinton administration was that we need a strong federal government to protect us from homegrown threats like Koresh, McVeigh, and others. Watch out! Those crazy gun toters on the right are going to get you! That was the theme for the onslaught of the SWATifying of all police actions. The ATF created the mess in WACO in 1993 in order to launch its new identity, to be seen as a significant para military domestic force with military assets. They wanted to tie the new Clinton presidency and AG down to a harsh plan that would help ignite the theme that homegrown crazies on the right were the threat to decent Americans now. Then came the WTC bombing of 1993, and the two big hot button fear issues had been triggered for the new presidency. Our government would disarm everyone of us if they could.
You got it. When former NJ Sen. Frank Lautenberg pushed through his domestic violence bill it barred all who were ever convicted of a misdemeanor domestic violence offense from owning firearms. A man who was arguing with his wife at the breakfast table grabbed her arms when she tried to repeatedly slap him, and he was convicted of assaulting her. He lost his gun rights. The govt found (after the law passed) that thousands of police officers had been convicted and because the law was retroactive (that is, ex-post facto which is supposed to be unconstitutional) there are police agencies nationwide who have to keep cops on the rubber gun squad until they retire. The Arizona sheriff who sued the feds and had part of the Brady law overturned because it imposed the unfunded mandate to conduct background checks for gun purchases wrote a great article explaining why the feds are trapped by Lautenberg. If the law stays on the books then the agencies have to keep all of these cops working at jails or on desks until they retire, but if the law is overturned then all of the cops who lost their jobs will have to be compensated for lost wages and promotions. When the feds realized what they'd done they actually toyed with the idea of exempting cops who were convicted of domestic violence offenses! But, needless to say they figured out that not only would feminists scream to high Heaven but other gun owners would have a cause of action to overturn the law based on the equal protection clause. If this proposed law passes (and will be retroactive) it will aggravate the same problem that Lautenberg started. Many active duty cops and military members have sought counseling for PTSD, and I'm guessing that once the feds realize that they'll be shooting themselves in the foot again that the bill will fail.
And they would chip us all too - 'for our own 'protection' -- if they get the go ahead to do so as well.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
They wanted to tie the new Clinton presidency and AG down to a harsh plan that would help ignite the theme that homegrown crazies on the right were the threat to decent Americans now. Then came the WTC bombing of 1993, and the two big hot button fear issues had been triggered for the new presidency. Our government would disarm everyone of us if they could. At least it backfired, the only people Americans learned to fear were govt people.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
They will herd the sheeple by frightening them in this direction.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
They have a scary huge number of veterans suffering from this disorder, and this is a brilliant way to get us vets to shut up and suffer from the effects of their lousy little criminal wars the kids of well to do neocons will never suffer from because they do not enlist and serve because they feel they are too good to join in sharing the burden they feel should be carried by 'the lower classes' alone. This attempt to villify the very people they should respect for serving in the military boils down to worrying about the demand for appropriations that this new huge crop of combat veterans will be screaming for to prop up the overwhelmed and over burdened VA system. It really pisses me off. And I am very very sick and tired of being sick and tired of the antics of these people too.
Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.
Just wait until the effects of exposure to DU kick in. Most of it will be delayed, like the exposure to Agent orange, blue, etc.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Not not mention the fact that anyone who believes in the 2nd Amendment who knows they need counseling, even for minor depression, will now be reluctant to do so due to the StateInc nazis attempting to take away their firearms. Again, TheStateInc is totally out of control and TheTreeOfLiberty needs watering very soon....very soon.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition ================ Just wait until the effects of exposure to DU kick in. Most of it will be delayed, like the exposure to Agent orange, blue, etc. not delayed....COVERED UP! The proof is out there....and it is, or will be, called POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER. ......For years the government described Gulf War Syndrome as a post-traumatic stress disorder. It was labeled a psychological problem or simply dismissed as mysterious unrelated ailments. In this same way the Pentagon and the Veterans Administration treated the health problems of Vietnam vets suffering from Agent Orange poisoning...... Excellent Links: http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/Depleted-Uranium.htm [horrendously deformed babies don't lie, my title] http://www.apfn.org/APFN/DU.htm The spouses of the veterans are suffering from the same maladies. They will be labeled PTS as well. I remember Joyce Riley talking about this many years ago. She said then, that the spouses of the veterans would lose their gun rights too....too unsafe to let those who had served CorpUSA and paid with their lives and those of their families to have guns in the house, period.....[they might turn them on the real enemy don't you know.] I doubt if there has ever been such an evil collection of people to rule this world. This is genocide, not just of Americans but of Arabs, and all the world...DU doesn't just stay put. "...How was the truth about DU hidden from military personnel serving in successive DU wars? Before his tragic death, Sen. Paul Wellstone informed Joyce Riley, R.N., B.S.N., executive director of the American Gulf War Veterans Association, that 95 percent of Gulf War veterans had been recycled out of the military by 1995. Any of those continuing in military service were isolated from each other, preventing critical information being transferred to new troops. The “next DU war” had already been planned, and those planning it wanted “no skunk at the garden party.” The US has a dirty (DU) little (CIA) secret A new book just published at the American Free Press by Michael Collins Piper, “The High Priests of War: The Secret History of How America’s Neo-Conservative Trotskyites Came to Power and Orchestrated the War Against Iraq as the First Step in Their Drive for Global Empire,” details the early plans for a war against the Arab world by Henry Kissinger and the neo-cons in the late 1960s and early 1970s. That just happens to coincide with getting the DU “show on the road” and the oil crisis in the Middle East, which caused concern not only to President Nixon. The British had been plotting and scheming for control of the oil in Iraq for decades since first using poison gas on the Iraqis and Kurds in 1912. The book details the creation of the neo-cons by their “godfather” and Trotsky lover Irving Kristol, who pushed for a “war against terrorism” long before 9/11 and was lavishly funded for years by the CIA. His son, William Kristol, is one of the most influential men in the United States. Both are public relations men for the Israeli lobby’s neo-conservative network, with strong ties to Rupert Murdoch. Kissinger also has ties to this network and the Carlyle Group, who, one could say, have facilitated these omnicidal wars beginning from the time former President Bush took office. It would be easy to say that we are recycling World Wars I and II, with the same faces. When I asked Vietnam Special Ops Green Beret Capt. John McCarthy, who could have devised this omnicidal plan to use DU to destroy the genetic code and genetic future of large populations of Arabs and Moslems in the Middle East and Central Asia - just coincidentally the areas where most of the world’s oil deposits are located - he replied: “It has all the handprints of Henry Kissinger.” In Zbignew Brzezinski’s book “The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives,” the map of the Eurasian chessboard includes four regions strategic to U.S. foreign policy. The “South” region corresponds precisely to the regions now contaminated permanently with radiation from U.S. bombs, missiles and bullets made with thousands of tons of DU. A Japanese professor, Dr. K. Yagasaki, has calculated that 800 tons of DU is the atomicity equivalent of 83,000 Nagasaki bombs. The U.S. has used more DU since 1991 than the atomicity equivalent of 400,000 Nagasaki bombs. Four nuclear wars indeed, and 10 times the amount of radiation released into the atmosphere from atmospheric testing! No wonder our soldiers, their families and the people of the Middle East, Yugoslavia and Central Asia are sick. But as Henry Kissinger said after Vietnam when our soldiers came home ill from Agent Orange, “Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used for foreign policy.” Unfortunately, more and more of those soldiers are men and women with brown skin. And unfortunately, the DU radioactive dust will be carried around the world and deposited in our environments just as the “smog of war” from the 1991 Gulf War was found in deposits in South America, the Himalayas and Hawaii. In June 2003, the World Health Organization announced in a press release that global cancer rates will increase 50 percent by 2020. What else do they know that they aren’t telling us? I know that depleted uranium is a death sentence … for all of us. We will all die in silent ways. http://www.sfbayview.com/081804/Depleteduranium081804.shtml......
yes, disgraceful Kissinger's dumb beasts must never be allowed to know the truth.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Exactly. And, according to their stats 50% of the American people have some minor mental disturbance. It will soon reach a point where if you want to own a gun that will be evidence of why you are legally precluded from doing so.
Oh, it's coming. It's starting with seniors, particularly those who are at-risk to wonder off. Seems reasonable. But now they're going to start chipping babies, to make sure no one can steal your little one. Someone with the government will always know where your kid is. And 30 years from now, everyone will have them, and it will be routine. It will be tied to your official number, will have all your data on everything you've ever done, your DNA, your medical history, and any dickhead working for the government will have access to it.
Disgruntled ex-military men are what those in power fear the most. They have all those skills they were supposed to use on trumped up "enemies" (99% of whom never did any American any harm), and when they realize they've been conned and taken advantage of, what's to stop them from turning those skills on those who conned them? That's why they saw to it that Pat Tillman would never make it out of Afghanistan alive, and covered it up with a feel-good "hero of the people" story that would make Stalin proud.
Welcome back! And no me and mine won't because if they try, this clan will be be deceased along with 200 Stormtroopers for every one of us. Get one million others and we'd have a viable revolution on our hands.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition Agreed. Tillman was assassinated for his political views, and ALL the evidence says so.
They're securing the police state by causing fear to drive all the Americans too weak of mind towards fascism. Fear is how they get citizens to accept quasi military police dressed like SWAT teams, wondering around airports and cities in the name of security. I'd say our biggest battles are (1) the way they control major media and make big events small and small events big, as they desire, and (2) the way our system of electing presidents and national legislators is subject to theft by computer now. As long as they can do those things, they don't need to worry about being held accountable.
VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#2. To: robin (#0)
(Edited)
#3. To: Paul Revere (#2)
In a free society with a Constitution and a second amendment, there will always be tragedies involving (1) guns, (2) a veteran, and (3) killing. It's merely a function of numbers. There are millions of vets, and some of them will end up getting a gun and shooting someone. Only a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of them will ever hurt anyone besides themselves after they leave service.
#4. To: robin (#0)
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#5. To: LACUMO (#3)
Sounds to me like the neocons fear these returning vets who are being mistreated not only by not receiving proper care, but fear them because they were overused with multi tours of duty in the neocons illegal war.
#6. To: noone222 (#5)
Maybe someone else would loan them a weapon if they promised to make good use of it.
#7. To: LACUMO. all (#6)
If they want a gun for whatever reason, they'll get one, legal or otherwise.
#8. To: LACUMO (#3)
Sounds to me like the neocons fear these returning vets who are being mistreated not only by not receiving proper care, but fear them because they were overused with multi tours of duty in the neocons illegal war.
#9. To: IndieTX, robin (#4)
Coming soon to everyone.
#10. To: Paul Revere (#8)
"Our government would disarm everyone of us if they could."
#11. To: Paul Revere (#8)
That's probably true, but remember, much of the concerns about vets and guns arose after the whole OKC thing. The theme by the shadow government during the Clinton administration was that we need a strong federal government to protect us from homegrown threats like Koresh, McVeigh, and others. Watch out! Those crazy gun toters on the right are going to get you! That was the theme for the onslaught of the SWATifying of all police actions. The ATF created the mess in WACO in 1993 in order to launch its new identity, to be seen as a significant para military domestic force with military assets.
#12. To: IndieTX (#4)
Coming soon to everyone.
#13. To: robin (#11)
#14. To: Ferret Mike (#13)
This attempt to villify the very people they should respect for serving in the military boils down to worrying about the demand for appropriations that this new huge crop of combat veterans will be screaming for to prop up the overwhelmed and over burdened VA system.
#15. To: HOUNDDAWG (#9)
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#16. To: robin (#14)
This attempt to villify the very people they should respect for serving in the military boils down to worrying about the demand for appropriations that this new huge crop of combat veterans will be screaming for to prop up the overwhelmed and over burdened VA system.
#17. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#16)
not delayed....COVERED UP!
#18. To: IndieTX (#15)
#19. To: Ferret Mike (#10)
And they would chip us all too - 'for our own 'protection' -- if they get the go ahead to do so as well.
#20. To: Paul Revere (#2)
I can remember being a gung ho military man and believing every word they told me. I can remember learning different over time, too.
#21. To: Paul Revere (#19)
And 30 years from now, everyone will have them, and it will be routine. It will be tied to your official number, will have all your data on everything you've ever done, your DNA, your medical history, and any dickhead working for the government will have access to it.
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#22. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#20)
#23. To: IndieTX (#21)
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