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Title: Tent City Jail to Hold AWOL Soldiers
Source:
The Arizona Republic
URL Source: [None]
Published: Sep 27, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2007-09-27 12:20:24 by ghostdogtxn
Keywords: None
Views: 533
Comments: 45
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#1. To: ghostdogtxn (#0)
A long time ago, the National Lampoon did a brilliant takeoff on Reader's Digest, including its Humor in Uniform section. To the best of my memory, this is one of the jokes. A young PFC got drunk during leave and finally found his way back to base a few days later, much worse for the wear. After due course, he was brought up on charges of being absent without leave and was sentenced to 10 years in prison. "Jesus Christ," quipped the plucky private. "What the fuck is this, RUSSIA?"
PC wussies... During Korean war, when the AWOL rate went through the roof, the military adopted a new policy. Any man AWOL was put in irons, transported to Travis AFB in CA and flown in irons with MPs direct to Korea as replacements in the front lines. The AWOL dropped to next to nothing. In Korea these slackers were thrown into the worst of conditions. I witnessed many a MATS flight of them in irons bound for Korea.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
At the time and of personal consideration, we were unhappy to be risking our lives and these people were taking the cowards way out. Right or wrong was not an issue, rather personal survival. These people would wait until the day before their ship was to depart CA, desert and come back after the ship left. For this they were given 6 months in the brig and dishonorably discharged. There were hundreds of them that took that route. After direct flights began, desertion was very rare.
Are you familiar with the word, "fragging"?
"He is a very shallow critic who cannot see an eternal rebel in the heart of a conservative." - G.K. Chesterton
Cowards way out? Cowards because they didn't want to travel 8000 miles to kill people in a country they had never heard of and didn't do anything to them. I consider that stand quite brave. Right or wrong was not an issue Obviously for you it wasn't. There were hundreds of them that took that route. They should have all gotten medals.
How many $$ per day does tent city receive for each AWOL soldier?
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
more conditioning
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Does this mean that all the military facilities are full? Why else would they need tent city?
Perhaps you were one of them???? It seems the concept totally eludes you.
Must be a helluva lot of AWOL
"I wish for a bright future for all human beings and the dawn of the liberation of and freedom for all humans, and the rule of love and affection all around the world, as well as the elimination of oppression, hatred, and violence, a wish which I expect will be realized in the near future". -- MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD
servitude?? Far worse than that. It comes down to this, you take your chance with "our" enemy, or we shoot you, your choice. Contrary to beliefs of some that were not there, I take it personal when a man adopts cowardice as a defense and others have to take their place. Some of these people with big mouths are just that, all mouth, all talk. Recall our HERO Ike had Slovik shot. Would the big mouths face that???
The major tenant of Fort Huachuca is the U.S. Army Intelligence Center (Army intelligence has a big training facility there.) Fort Huachuca is also the headquarters of Army Military Affiliate Radio System. Other tenant agencies include the Joint Interoperability Test Command and the Electronic Proving Ground.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
They want to approximate the living conditions of soldiers in Iraq, so that soldiers will have less have an incentive to go AWOL so as to avoid going to Iraq. (But it doesn't sound as if the inmates will be facing anything like combat.)
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Korea was not a clearly immoral and illegal war.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
You mean the concept of travelling to the other side of the planet to murder people because the government says to? You're right about that. It goes right over my head. Good thing we have guys like you smart enough to grasp it. It leaves women behind for us dummies to go about building our homes, careers and families while the geniuses are conceptualizing what is so elusive as a mortar rips their balls off.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
The Army's confinement facilities are very limited. According to my recollection there is one west of the Mississippi and one east of it. With the latest BRAC there may only be one eventually remaining. I'm going on memory here so don't take this as gospel.
During last night's The War, a vet was saying that during the invasion of Italy, soldiers got to talking about how much they would charge to do what they were doing basically for free, if they COULD charge. At first, they said $1,000 a mission. But as they got into bloodier and bloodier battles with the Nazis, the amount went up to $10,000 a mission (enough to buy a nice house back then) and then $100,000 and then "no amount of money." Obviously not Blackwater material.
Ironic??? Not at all. The man at the bottom NEVER has a choice. Wrapping oneself in a higher moral veil cloaks only one thing, his own willingness to let others sacrifice, not me, however I will gladly partake of any benefits that may follow. The Revolutionary war is a perfect example of the personal selfishness of men. Thirty per cent of Americans fought and won freedom for this country. That thirty per cent did the suffering, bleeding and dying while the moralists sat safely at home. As soon as the war was settled the shirkers were out in force, we were with you all the time.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Thanks for the tent city enlightenment.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
That's just the warmonger's marching song. It sounds a lot like "you don't support the troops if you don't support the war." ghost... That has nothing to do with the man at the bottom. Cowardice is cowardice. Slovik was told, one more AWOL under fire and you will be shot. He accepting being shot. I will give him credit for not wrapping himself in any fraudulent moral veil. I personally do not believe that many moralists would have the strength of Slovik. Any man that will tell me here that they would accept the death penalty rather than be dragged into war then surely is a moralist.
Hear, hear. Well said. And if the price of ethical free choice is imprisonment, so be it. Better that than enslavement to serve corrupt and greedy men's/foreign nation's self-serving agendas.
I'm not sure what big mouth posters you refer to on this board. But if you are meaning it to be a broad scatter shot across the bow against everyone who has spoken out against conscription and against our gov'ts propensity to get into faux foreign wars, I will respond because I certainly have done both. Without a doubt, I would choose corporal punishment or imprisonment over being used as a pawn to kill others in a foreign war I know to be waged for false reasons ( not for America's defense) and for no just cause.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
ghost... There you go assuming things. LOL Slovik was a criminal thus classified as 4F. He was living the good life. Good job, new car, newly married, nice apartment. He had it made. Let someone else do it, he was safe. Then they changed the rules, criminals were wanted and needed. Immediately Slovik was against the war. Risking ones life in war was not for him. He did have the strength (I mentioned that) to accept death rather than fight and I rather doubt anyone here has that courage of their convictions. I suspect all would fall in line, just as they did during the Korean War. Sloviks cowardice was so great he was willing to forfeit his life. I have never encountered a coward of that magnitude.
Careful what you wish for. Wait till the troops hear about a "tent city" where there are no snipers, IEDs, insurgents, rocket attacks, friendly fire, long foot patrols, orange jump suits instead of heavy body armor, and you're not surrounded by a few million people who want you dead in the worst way. "I'm supposed to be a soldier out protecting people and helping people, and I'm cleaning toilets," Thompson said of his stay in Tent City. And there are 10 soldiers in Iraq who would sell their soul for such a job. Another run down IED alley vs moping floors? Let's give that offer to every troop in Iraq and see what the results are.
"The more I see of life, the less I fear death" - Me.
Correct... The man under the gun has NO choice, regardless of how he got there. We voted for this government and WE sent them there. Blaming Bush is fine but I voted for the SOB so to me, we all share the blame.
It would appear that The Powers That Be disagree with your observation or else these chickenhawk power brokers would have pulled the trigger on conscription 2 years ago at the first hints of "Vietnam War like quagmire" signs in Iraq and "Soviet like failure" signs in Afghanistan.
Why two years ago???? I am old and remember in 1939 that people had a good laugh that we would have a draft. Even FDR said he would NEVER draft American boys to fight in foreign wars. Your history class must have told you who laughed last. Over ten million Americans were taken away. There was no laughter, no moral indignation. Those with fear of death were hauled in anyway, by their government. It will happen again, to think otherwise is extremely foolhardy. Somewhere today ghost said the powers to be were hell bent on aligning Russia/China with our enemies in the ME. If ghost is correct, just who do you think will volunteer for that war? Or perhaps you might see a draft?
Most of us here are in the same boat - at least for the 2000 (s)election. We should blame the SCOTUS for installing commander guy.
Not all of us voted for Bush. And would you seriously maintain that, after the German people voted Hitler in, no German had any business refusing to take part in his wars?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
FDR's words in that notorious speech in Boston of Oct. 30, 1940. Note that he said nothing there about no draft. As a matter of fact, Congress had passed the Selective Training and Service Act of 1940 on Sept. 14, at the behest of FDR's administration.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
b. Somewhere today ghost said the powers to be were hell bent on aligning Russia/China with our enemies in the ME. If ghost is correct, just who do you think will volunteer for that war? Or perhaps you might see a draft? a. different times no Internet no instant debunking of gubment pap, different ethnic composition of our citizenry - like Asians and Hispanics have any interest in fighting AIPAC-Exxon's foreign wars, different school propaganda regarding "patriotism" K-gr.12- do our kids even cite the Pledge anymore each morning in public schools?, higher propensity of dual and triple citizenship and conflicted loyalties, different attitudes to Congress and the Oval Office - today people hold those 2 entities in as high a regard as a used car salesman - etc, etc b. Do you honestly think a draft would be useful if Russia/China/ME nations went to war against us as a cohesive alliance? Dream along with me. Their alliance would have the numbers as well as the weaponry, hands down. If this truly is the Mother of all Wars that the Insane in DC want, then they must be counting on using nukes in that type of conflict and they are hoping to sit out the worst of the contamination by living for a couple of years in their underground bunkers. The Insane in DC recognize better than you that conscription is no hedge against an alliance of China+Russia+ME nations. Nukes - quick lethal strikes - would be the first choice of the Insane. That's what I'd guess.
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#2. To: ghostdogtxn (#0)
Military officials also hope that the AWOL soldiers' experiences in Tent City will be close to the living accommodations of soldiers in Iraq.
#3. To: Cynicom (#2)
#4. To: ghostdogtxn (#3)
A good reminder that we are the property of the state.
#5. To: Cynicom (#4)
After direct flights began, desertion was very rare.
#6. To: Cynicom (#4)
... we were unhappy to be risking our lives and these people were taking the cowards way out.
#7. To: ghostdogtxn (#0)
(Edited)
Because Tent City is a federally approved confinement facility...
#8. To: Cynicom (#4)
#9. To: Fred Mertz (#7)
#10. To: ghostdogtxn, Red Jones (#0)
#11. To: ghostdogtxn. anyone (#0)
#12. To: SmokinOPs (#6)
They should have all gotten medals.
#13. To: lodwick (#11)
#14. To: ghostdogtxn (#8)
Otherwise that kind of servitude would really suck.
#15. To: ghostdogtxn (#0)
#16. To: lodwick (#11)
#17. To: Cynicom (#14)
#18. To: Cynicom (#12)
It seems the concept totally eludes you.
#19. To: robin (#10)
#20. To: lodwick (#11)
#21. To: Cynicom (#14)
#22. To: lodwick (#11)
Does this mean that all the military facilities are full?
#23. To: ghostdogtxn (#8)
We ceded a lot of liberty with the draft, and that's a concession that goes back to the Civil War, if not farther. We now generally accept that our leaders have the right to press us into service to murder other people. Good thing war is so glorious. Otherwise that kind of servitude would really suck.
#24. To: ghostdogtxn (#21)
(Edited)
Our freedom? Doesn't that strike you as a bit ironic?
#25. To: Mekons4 (#23)
#26. To: Everyone (#25)
#27. To: Cynicom (#24)
#28. To: ghostdogtxn (#27)
#29. To: ghostdogtxn (#27)
But if I were drafted to fight for the oil companies in Iraq by the oil president to fight a war for Israel and oil, I wouldn't go. I'd do everything in my power to keep my friends and family from going, too. It's an immoral war, and a man ought to have the right to choose what's moral and what's not, just like a man ought to have the right to choose whether he has the personal courage or strength to go and fight. That's what it means to be a free man.
#30. To: Cynicom (#14)
Recall our HERO Ike had Slovik shot. Would the big mouths face that???
#31. To: Cynicom (#28)
#32. To: ghostdogtxn (#31)
(Edited)
Your positions assume a lot, Cynicom. First of all, regards Slovik, he wasn't as courageous as you might think. I
#33. To: ghostdogtxn (#0)
Military officials also hope that the AWOL soldiers' experiences in Tent City will be close to the living accommodations of soldiers in Iraq.
#34. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#33)
And there are 10 soldiers in Iraq who would sell their soul for such a job. Another run down IED alley vs moping floors? Let's give that offer to every troop in Iraq and see what the results are.
#35. To: Cynicom, ghostdogtxn (#32)
I rather doubt anyone here has that courage of their convictions. I suspect all would fall in line, just as they did during the Korean War.
#36. To: scrapper2 (#35)
would have pulled the trigger on conscription 2 years ago
#37. To: Cynicom. all (#34)
Blaming Bush is fine but I voted for the SOB so to me, we all share the blame.
#38. To: Cynicom (#34)
so to me, we all share the blame.
#39. To: Cynicom (#36)
"And while I am talking to you mothers and fathers, I give you one more assurance. I have said this before and I shall say it again and again and again: Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars."
#40. To: Cynicom (#36)
(Edited)
a. Your history class must have told you who laughed last. Over ten million Americans were taken away. There was no laughter, no moral indignation. Those with fear of death were hauled in anyway, by their government.
.
.
.