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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: U.S. Detention Centers are Part of Long-Term DHS Plan: "ENDGAME," Part I
Source: Daily Kos
URL Source: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/30/74155/1739
Published: Sep 30, 2007
Author: Residentcynic
Post Date: 2007-09-30 12:21:35 by Zipporah
Keywords: None
Views: 1579
Comments: 113

U.S. Detention Centers are Part of Long-Term DHS Plan: "ENDGAME," Part I Hotlist

by Residentcynic [Subscribe]

Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:41:55 AM PDT

I recently spent some time on the web researching the Bush Doctrine and neocon (Straussian)-based policy. What I didn’t expect to find was an operational government program which targets immigrants and "potential terrorists" on a grand scale. Never missing an opportunity for Orwellian titles, the Department of Homeland Security has named this little gem "ENDGAME."

Its goal is "the removal of all removable aliens, (including illegal economic migrants, aliens who have committed criminal acts, asylum-seekers required to be retained by law) or potential terrorists." (Executive summary of document)

Can't "potential terrorist" mean, well, anybody?

Details below~~

ENDGAME is the policy executed by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and its sub-agencies, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and the Office of Detention and Removal (DRO), that is part of a sweeping 10-year plan (2002-2012) to: 1) apprehend, 2) incarcerate (detain), 3) "process"—(investigate and question), and 4) remove all removable aliens or potential terrorists. The order of apprehension to removal is literal, as the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) under DHS shifted the traditionally two-pronged approach of 1)investigation, 2)detention-removal to a one-pronged approach in 2000: detention-first and "process" the person while incarcerated. (p. 2-7 of ENDGAME document)

This is especially troubling, as the detention-removal prong was originally set up for aliens who had committed crimes. According to ICE, the investigation prong was discarded in 2000 because incarcerating first "reduce[s] potential demand for detention space, save[s] money,"increase[s] public safety, reduce[s] the potential for future crimes, and enhance[s] the welfare of our society." (2-7)

In 2000, 2004, and most recently on January 22, 2006, DHS awarded Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown, and Root (KBR) a contingency contract from DHS. The 2006 contract gave KBR $385 million "to establish temporary detention and processing capabilities to expand existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S.,or to support the rapid development of new programs."

Two weeks later, on Feb. 6, 2006, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, "announced that the Fiscal Year 2007 federal budget would allocate over $400 million to add 6,700 additional detention beds. This $400 million allocation is more than a four-fold increase over the FY 2006 budget, which provided only $90 million for the same purpose." The contract accomodates "up to 20,000 refugees from environmental and political disasters. A future expansion in 2008 calls for another 20,000 beds."

Four hundred million dollars and 40,000+ beds is certainly a bizarre way to save money and improve efficiency, no? Further, the contingency in the contract provides that KBR gets paid well before an "immigrant emergency" happens, and funds KBR even if an emergency doesn't occur. Representative Henry A. Waxman, (D-CA), called the contract "worrisome."

"With Halliburton's ever expanding track record of overcharging, it's hard to believe that the administration has decided to entrust Halliburton with even more taxpayer dollars," Mr. Waxman said. "With each new contract, the need for real oversight grows."

If KBR building enough detention centers by the end of this year to incarcerate 20,000+ people, and another 20,000 by 2008, isn’t enough to give one pause, the spokespeople should:

"A spokesman for the [Army Corps of Engineers, who issued the bid], Clayton Church, said that the centers could be at unused military sites or temporary structures and that each one would hold up to 5,000 people." He also claimed the reason for the centers were to "feed, house, and protect" the immigrants.

(Perhaps the 30 bases that Rumsfeld decommissioned just weeks after the 9-11 attacks are what they have in mind.)

A spokeswoman for ICE, Jamie Zuieback, said:

"KBR would build the centers only in an emergency like the one when thousands of Cubans floated on rafts to the United States."

She emphasized that the centers might never be built if such an emergency did not arise.

"It's the type of contract that could be used in some kind of mass migration" Ms. Zuieback said.

Mass migration into the United States? The same United States that deports "potential terrorists" to Guantanamo and other far flung renditions? Sorry, I don’t buy it. I believe ENDGAME's program "is designed to house additional detainees who have not been convicted of crimes."

Attorney Ahilan Arulanantham with the ACLU of Southern California told AlterNet":

"Obviously, if the government's intentions are to care for refugees displaced by a natural disaster, we have no problem with that. But with the numbers of detentions, which have exploded since 1996 and more so after Sept. 11 -- and remember after 9/11, the government detained over 1,000 people in New York City, none of whom were linked to terrorist activity -- based on stories like these, we fear that their program could victimize people fleeing persecution or calamity, the very people that the program is designed to help."

BACKGROUND:

Not surprisingly, the original highly classified version of ENDGAME began during the Reagan administration, and was called "Continuity of Government" or COG. The planners included Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld when Cheney was a congressman for Wyoming and Rumsfeld was former defense secretary under Gerald Ford, and CEO of G.D. Serle, a pharmaceutical company.

"Under it U.S. officials furtively carried out detailed planning exercises for keeping the federal government running during and after a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. The program called for setting aside the legal rules for presidential succession in some circumstances, in favor of a secret procedure for putting in place a new "President" and his staff. The idea was to concentrate on speed, to preserve "continuity of government," and to avoid cumbersome procedures; the speaker of the House, the president pro tempore of the Senate, and the rest of Congress would play a greatly diminished role."

"COG proposals included vastly expanded detention capabilities, warrantless eavesdropping and detention, and preparations for greater use of martial law. These men planned for suspension of the Constitution, not just after nuclear attack, but for any "national security emergency," which they defined in Executive Order 12656 of 1988 as: 'Any occurrence, including natural disaster, military attack, technological or other emergency, that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States.'"

COG was made official in 2002 as a Commission, and is "an American Enterprise Institute and Brookings Institution project, funded by the Carnegie, Hewlett, Packard, and MacArthur Foundations." President Jimmy Carter is the honorary chairman and Lloyd Cutler and Alan Simpson are the commission's co-chairs; its members include Newt Gingrich, Leon Panetta, Jamie Gorelick, and other notables. On the website, the introduction describes its reason for existence:

"September 11th raised the possibility that foreign enemies might seriously disrupt the filling of vacancies in Congress, presidential succession, and achieving a quorum for the Court so much so that our basic institutions might not function in a normal constitutional manner."

According to the Washington Post and the 9-11 Commission Report, Vice President Cheney implemented a COG plan in the form of a "shadow government" by the new name of "Continuity of Operations Plan" (COP) immediately after 9-11, which dispatched "100 senior civilian managers to live and work secretly outside Washington, activating for the first time long-standing plans to ensure survival of federal rule after catastrophic attack on the nation's capital." The extent of their operation has never been reported. (Also reported on CBS News and CNN.)

Although I don’t agree with his platform, Rep. Ron Paul has this to say about COG and its Commision:

The "Continuity of Government Commission" (COGC), spearheaded by the Brookings Institution and the American Enterprise Institute, recently issued proposals for the operation of Congress following a catastrophic terrorist attack. Specifically, COGC advocates a constitutional amendment calling for the appointment of individuals to the House of Representatives to fill the seats of dead or incapacitated members, a first in American history. An examination of the proposal reveals that it is both unnecessary and dangerous.

Note that COGC is "self-commissioned," its members being neither elected nor appointed by any government body. The biographies of the commissioners demonstrate that COGC is made up mostly of professional lobbyists. Of course COGC is well-intentioned, but the nation should know exactly who is trying to substitute their wisdom for that of James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and other framers of the Constitution. I think most Americans would prefer that proposals to amend the Constitution come from elected lawmakers or grassroots efforts, not from think tanks and lobbyists.

One reading the COGC proposal cannot help but sense the familiar Washington conceit at work, a conceit that sees America as totally dependent on the workings of Capitol Hill. It is simply unthinkable to many in Washington that the American people might survive a period in which Congress did not pass any new laws. But the truth is that the federal state is not America. The American people have always been remarkably resilient in the face of emergencies, and individual states are far more equipped to deal with emergencies and fill congressional vacancies than COGC imagines.

In summary, ENDGAME is the second phase of a Reagan-era program, COG, furthered by Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld to thwart the constitutional process of succession in case of an national emergency or disaster. ENDGAME is now aligned with the immigration arm of government, and also terrorism. It's goal, or "endgame" is to round up and detain "all" deportable aliens or "potential terrorists" before 2012, some 12 million is a conservative estimate. A heady feat, but well on its way with a $400 million contingency contract awarded to Halliburton's subsidiary, Kellogg, Brown, and Root by the Department of Homeland Security.

If it weren't for everything we've been through these last six years, I wouldn't believe these programs were legitimate. Unfortunately, they are. This isn't the America I know, this is fascism.

I plan on doing another diary, a Part II, in the next week or two, which will detail current ICE abuses and immigration issues. This walk has become a marathon, and I don't want to abscond anyone else's material. BTW, I searched the terms, "ENDGAME" "Detention Centers" "COG" and "KBR" and didn't come up with any diaries on these subjects. Apologies if I repeated anyone's material.

A final note: I tried to keep personal commentary to a minimum (hard!) to let the facts speak for themselves.

Thanks for reading,
RC

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#3. To: Zipporah (#0)

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-09-30   12:27:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Mister Clean (#1)

..and youre still a dumbass..

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   12:27:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Zipporah (#4)

..and youre still a dumbass..

Are you a supporter of illegal immigrants?

Only a supporter of illegal immigrants could oppose deporting them.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   12:29:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Mister Clean (#5)

.. you have a total disconnect with reality #1.. and no knowledge of history .. if you did you'd get a clue.. how about watching this ..it may just spark a brain cell or two that's been idle for so long...

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   12:32:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Zipporah (#6)

.. you have a total disconnect with reality #1.. and no knowledge of history .. if you did you'd get a clue.. how about watching this ..it may just spark a brain cell or two that's been idle for so long...

Yeah, yeah... America is being turned into the new Nazi Germany.

YAWN.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   12:38:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Mister Clean (#7)

.. not the message of the video dumbass..you didnt watch it ..

A fool sees not the same tree that a wise man sees.

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   12:44:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Zipporah, Mister clean (#4)

what Zipporah said.

1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Red Jones  posted on  2007-09-30   12:46:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Zipporah (#8)

.. not the message of the video dumbass..you didnt watch it ..

Save me the trouble of watching the whole thing and just tell me what it has to do with this post.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   12:46:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Mister Clean (#10)

.. no.

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   12:49:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Zipporah (#11)

. no.

All righty then.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   12:50:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Mister Clean (#12)

~shrug~

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   12:51:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Mister Clean (#7)

you're not here to learn a thing or to debate in good faith. if you were, you'd at least watch the video and then discuss what it is you think is inaccurate.

christine  posted on  2007-09-30   12:53:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: christine (#14)

you're not here to learn a thing or to debate in good faith. if you were, you'd at least watch the video and then discuss what it is you think is inaccurate.

I watched the first few moments of the video. All it talked about was the Bush connection to the Nazi regime.

I seriously doubt there is any connection between the video and this thread.

Except in the mind of the conspiracy theorist.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   13:00:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: christine (#14)

you're not here to learn a thing or to debate in good faith.

Posting a video is a pretty lazy form of "debate."

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   13:01:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: All (#0)

And this on the hearings

STATEMENT

OF
JOHN P. TORRES
DIRECTOR
OFFICE OF DETENTION AND REMOVAL OPERATIONS

U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
REGARDING A HEARING ON
“CROSSING THE BORDER: IMMIGRANTS IN DETENTION AND
VICTIMS OF TRAFFICKIN

BEFORE THE

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

SUBCOMMITTEE ON BORDER, MARITIME AND GLOBAL
COUNTERTERRORISM
Thursday, March 15, 2007 @ 10:00 am
311 Cannon House Office Building

INTRODUCTION

Good afternoon, Chairwoman Sanchez, and distinguished Members of the Subcommittee. My
name is John Torres, and I am the Director of the Office of Detention and Removal Operations
(DRO) at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). It is my privilege to appear before

you to discuss the enforcement mission of DRO.
DRO is responsible for promoting public safety and national security by ensuring the safe and
efficient departure from the United States of all removable aliens through the fair enforcement of
the nation’s immigration laws. As such, DRO’s core mission is the apprehension, detention, and
removal of inadmissible and deportable aliens, the management of non-detained aliens as their
cases progress through immigration proceedings, and the enforcement of orders of removal.

DISCUSSION
DRO employs a number of tools to accomplish this mission. Using these tools, DRO has
achieved considerable success in executing its immigration enforcement mission.
Increased Detention Capacity: Since 2006, ICE increased its detention capacity by more than
7,500 beds in Alabama, Arizona, California, Georgia, New Mexico and Texas.

Improved Detention Management: In addition to adding detention resources to prevent the
release of illegal aliens, ICE has achieved a number of important successes in appropriately
deploying this added capacity:

In 2006, DRO deployed a strategy to realize cost efficiencies, by relying more heavily on
larger regional facilities and thereby realize economies of scale while relieving the
burden on Field Offices facing detention shortages.

ICE created the Detention Operations Coordination Center (DOCC) in July 2006. The
DOCC monitors DRO Field Office detained dockets in order to coordinate movement of
detained aliens from Field Offices with detention shortages to Field Offices with surplus
capacity. The DOCC also actively ensures that all enforcement efforts by DRO and other

apprehending entities are matched with adequate detention space. As a result the average
daily population has risen from approximately 18,000 in July, 2006 to approximately
28,000 today.
DRO began to restructure the detainee transportation system in order to utilize ICE staff

and transportation resources as effectively as possible. In particular, DRO expanded the
use of ground transportation in order to minimize inefficient and costly short-range
Justice Prisoner and Alien Transportation System (JPATS) flights and increase flight
service routes for longer, more cost-effective flights.
DRO expanded its Alternatives to Detention programs to reduce the cost of monitoring

aliens under supervision. Under this program, the Electronic Monitoring Program
utilizes radio frequency ankle bracelets and a telephonic reporting system to remotely
manage detention cases. In addition, the Intensive Supervision Appearance Program
utilizes home and office visits, mandatory curfews, as well as radio frequency ankle
bracelets, as effective alternative case management techniques.

As detention space is added, DRO continues to ensure that all facilities comply with the
38 ICE National Detention Standards. These standards were developed in partnership
with Nongovernmental Organizations, such as the American Bar Association, and


Page 3
3
building upon standards established by the American Correctional Association, meet or
exceed correctional industry standards.
Expanded Use of Legal Authority: In 2006, the Department of Homeland Security employed
Expedited Removal authority under the Immigration and Nationality Act to streamline the

processing of aliens apprehended at or near the border. Under Expedited Removal, aliens who
present no claim for asylum or other protection are removed under streamlined processes, which
reduce both the period of time such aliens are detained and the enforcement resources necessary
to secure orders of removal.
Technological Enhancements: In addition to increased detention capacity, improved

management of that capacity, and mechanisms to improve removal and transportation processes,
DRO has also used key technological tools to further its mission. These tools include the
Electronic Travel Document system and Video Teleconferencing capability.
The electronic travel document allows us to work with cooperating foreign governments

to process and obtain travel documents required for removal electronically, avoiding the
need for slower, less efficient, mail-based correspondence. This system has reduced the
processing times for travel document issuance from weeks to days.
Video Teleconferencing capability allows DRO to provide for remote interviews of

detainees by foreign consular officials, thereby reducing the need for in-person interviews
during the travel document issuance process.
Combined, these tools have allowed DRO and the Department of Homeland Security to realize
significant and concrete gains:
For example, in 2006, DRO made record use of JPATS. Compared to 10,352 movements
in 1995, we moved 115,000 aliens in 2006. DRO is currently on pace to move 170,000

aliens through the use of JPATS in 2007.
Also in 2006, DRO removed a record number of aliens—more than 190,000, of whom
nearly 90,000 were criminal aliens.

In addition, through the expanded use of Expedited Removal, DRO was able to decrease
the time aliens spend in custody, effectively increasing the bedspace available for
detention each year. Specifically, while the average length of detention for aliens in
traditional removal proceedings is 89 days, the length of detention for aliens removed

under Expedited Removal processing is 19 days.
Finally, through the increased and more efficient use of bedspace, DRO now ensures that
no alien apprehended at the border is released for lack of detention capacity, thereby

effectively ending “catch and release” at our borders.
In addition to these gains, and consistent with DRO’s mission to promote public safety and
national security, DRO has committed significant resources to the apprehension, detention, and
removal of criminal and fugitive aliens.
Criminal Alien Program: ICE has worked aggressively to transition criminal alien
enforcement efforts from its Office of Investigations, while making the most of DRO’s

specialized administrative immigration processing capabilities and expertise.
Most recently, 2007 began with an aggressive push to transition all remaining
Institutionalized Criminal Alien Operations from the Office of Investigations to DRO.


Page 4
4
This transition is scheduled to be completed by June 1, 2007. Currently, 11 out of 24
DRO Field Offices have fully transitioned.
In June 2006, DRO established the National Detention Enforcement and Processing

Offenders by Remote Technology (DEPORT) Center, a Chicago-based center that
supports the screening, interviewing, and removal processing of criminal aliens detained
in federal custody throughout the United States.
Since its inception, DEPORT has screened nearly 10,000 cases, issued over 7,100

charging documents, located almost 100 alien absconders, and lodged more than 2,600
detainers.
National Fugitive Operations Program: Established in 2003 and tasked with locating,
apprehending, and effecting the removal of fugitive aliens, the ICE National Fugitive Operations
Program within DRO has been working aggressively to reduce the number of fugitive aliens.

DRO has currently deployed 53 teams, nearly tripling the number of teams in 2005, and
continues to work on deploying the additional 22 Fugitive Operations Teams funded by
Congress.
Team enforcement activities prioritize alien absconder cases in the following order:
aliens identified as threats to national security; those who pose a threat to the community;

those convicted of violent crimes; those with criminal records; non-criminal absconders.
State and Local Responses: In addition to partnerships with state and local law enforcement
agencies under section 287(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act ICE is taking steps to
explore increasing responsiveness to state and local law enforcement agency requests for
assistance. One example of these exploratory efforts is the creation of a pilot program in the
Phoenix, AZ, metropolitan area to service such requests.

Under this pilot program, which began in September 2006, ICE created a dedicated unit
in DRO’s Phoenix Field Office, called a Law Enforcement Agency Response Unit, to
provide primary rapid response to law enforcement agency requests for assistance in
immigration-related cases on a 24-hour-per-day, 365-day-per-year basis.

From September 4, 2006, through March 4, 2007, this unit received 468 calls for
assistance from state, local, and federal law enforcement agencies in the Phoenix area,
encountering over 2,700 aliens.
ICE will continue to study the successes of this pilot program and the feasibility of
adopting similar programs in other localities.

CONCLUSION
The integrity of our immigration system requires fair and effective enforcement of our Nation’s
immigration laws. By aggressively enforcing these laws, we seek to deter criminal and terrorist
organizations who threaten our way of life, and we seek to strengthen the legal immigration
process for worthy applicants.
I would like to thank you, Ms. Chairwoman and Members of the Subcommittee, for the
opportunity to testify today on behalf of the men and women of DRO, and I look forward to
answering any questions you may have.

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   13:02:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: All (#17)

And for those who cant see the forest for the trees..the Pandora's Box opening:

Foundations are in place for martial law in the US

By Ritt Goldstein
July 27 2002

"When president Ronald Reagan was considering invading Nicaragua he issued a series of executive orders that provided the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) with broad powers in the event of a "crisis" such as "violent and widespread internal dissent or national opposition against a US military invasion abroad". They were never used.

But with the looming possibility of a US invasion of Iraq, recent pronouncements by President George Bush's domestic security chief, Tom Ridge, and an official with the US Civil Rights Commission should fire concerns that these powers could be employed or a de facto drift into their deployment could occur.

On July 20 the Detroit Free Press ran a story entitled "Arabs in US could be held, official warns". The story referred to a member of the US Civil Rights Commission who foresaw the possibility of internment camps for Arab Americans. FEMA has practised for such an occasion.

FEMA, whose main role is disaster response, is also responsible for handling US domestic unrest.

From 1982-84 Colonel Oliver North assisted FEMA in drafting its civil defence preparations. Details of these plans emerged during the 1987 Iran-Contra scandal.

They included executive orders providing for suspension of the constitution, the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the president and FEMA.."

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   13:08:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Zipporah (#18)

They included executive orders providing for suspension of the constitution, the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the president and FEMA.."

Have you ever seen a discussion as to why Tom Ridge abruptly resigned from Homeland Gestapo and disappeared???

Cynicom  posted on  2007-09-30   13:11:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Zipporah (#6)

That was a great video, well worth the time it takes to watch it.

One thing that sets apart those of us who are part of the 9-11 truth movement from those who deride it is our approach to information. We have a never ending quest for new videos, new analyses, new witnesses, new approaches. We are open ended in our approach.

The naysayers view every new piece of information as a threat, and therefore seek to discount it as soon as possible. This means they try to avoid taking in new information, and when they review it, look only for a reason to dismiss it.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-09-30   13:12:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Cynicom (#19)

Date: September 30 1:06:06 PM From: Cynicom To: Mister Clean Subject: Re: U.S. Detention Centers are Part of Long-Term DHS Plan: "ENDGAME," Part I

Christine...

I know it is your forum but Clean is a professional troll and he is easily accomplishing his agenda when people respond to him.

Good people are turned off by such and go elsewhere as the endless bickering is tiresome. And Clean (sinkspur) smiles. He is a troll, even Freakville finally had enough and threw him out.

cyni..

Funny stuff especially since I'm not "sinkspur" and I've never posted on FreeRepublic.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   13:14:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Cynicom (#19)

They included executive orders providing for suspension of the constitution, the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the president and FEM

Have you ever seen a discussion as to why Tom Ridge abruptly resigned from Homeland Gestapo and disappeared???

Actually yes.. he left to spend more time with his family :P

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   13:25:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Zipporah (#6)

Nice video Zipporah.

It should be watched by school children in the morning with the same ferociousness they make them say the pledge.

I refused to say it in high school. With all the crap I caught by joining in that tiny aspect of the protest against the Indochina war, I shudder to think what they do to school kids today who refuse to stand and say the lie mantra called the Pledge of Allegiance.

In any event, short, concise videos like this are good ways to get people to wake up, because they cover the short attention spans most intellectually lazy suffer from, and help pull them in to a point of being curious enough to study enough of the facts hidden in plain view from them to be as dangerous to the criminals in power as they actually should be.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-09-30   13:27:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Paul Revere (#20)

That was a great video, well worth the time it takes to watch it.

One thing that sets apart those of us who are part of the 9-11 truth movement from those who deride it is our approach to information. We have a never ending quest for new videos, new analyses, new witnesses, new approaches. We are open ended in our approach.

The naysayers view every new piece of information as a threat, and therefore seek to discount it as soon as possible. This means they try to avoid taking in new information, and when they review it, look only for a reason to dismiss it.

As Ive said before.. I am in a quest for the truth.. where ever it leads.. that does mean take in information ..more or less use the Socratic method.. reject that which is not supported with evidence.. retain that which is..

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   13:29:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Ferret Mike (#23)

Well I do need to give Rob Noel the credit ..he posted this video on another thread but IMO it needs to be viewed by many..

This video is concise and does connect the dots which it seems so many are unable to do for some reason.

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   13:30:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Zipporah (#24)

>www.entertainmentearth.com/images/%5CAUTOIMAGES%5CRU4418lg.jpg>

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-09-30   13:31:46 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Mister Clean (#1)

The government is too incompetent and disorganized to carry this out but it sounds like a great idea.

It is hard to believe that someone as stupid as you actually comments on 'stuff' when all it does is reveal what a shill you are.

What part of "potential terrorists" do you not understand?

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-09-30   13:46:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Mister Clean (#7)

America is being turned into the new Nazi Germany.

BINGO! Amazing.... you finally get it!!

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-09-30   13:50:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: richard9151 (#27)

What part of "potential terrorists" do you not understand?

Worried they'll come and get you?

Where do you think they would deport you to?

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   13:54:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: richard9151 (#28)

BINGO! Amazing.... you finally get it!!

When the US invades Canada maybe the whole America-is-turning-into-Nazi-Germany could be taken seriously.

But plans to deport large numbers of illegals? That's a good idea.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   13:56:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Mister Clean, Zipporah (#5)

Are you a supporter of illegal immigrants?

No one is..... EXCEPT.... the United States government which has passed countless laws incouraging more and more illegal aliens to enter the United States. And then granting those same illegals countless benefits for coming and STAYING within the United States.

And these changes in the law started in 1965. I have posted all of the info about this several times in the thread on immigration.

Look it up and enjoy.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-09-30   13:56:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: richard9151 (#31)

No one is..... EXCEPT.... the United States government which has passed countless laws incouraging more and more illegal aliens to enter the United States. And then granting those same illegals countless benefits for coming and STAYING within the United States.

Oh so let me guess... this whole detention camp thing is being set up for US CITIZENS!!!

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   14:00:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: richard9151 (#31) (Edited)

..what is plain to see which eludes some.. is that this is a Pandoras Box.. and if some unnamed mental midgets would take the time to THINK which apparently is either not an option or is impossible, one would see that this is about far more than about illegal aliens.. that is why I posted the video.. the video speaks of internal strife ..pitting one group against another.. public opinion reveals that most Americans are very upset about illegal immigration and would think this is a good idea.. as shown by some here.. but dont have the ability to see beyond their own nose..

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   14:01:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Zipporah (#33)

the video speaks of internal strife ..pitting one group against another.. public opinion reveals that most Americans are very upset about illegal immigration and would think this is a good idea.. as shown by some here.. but dont have the ability to see beyond their own nose..

America is about money.

There is no money in a tyrannical police state but there is lots and lots of money in an economy driven by consumerism.

The rich won't get richer if American consumers are in detention camps.

That's what you don't understand.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   14:04:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Mister Clean (#34)

..youre a dolt..

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   14:05:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Zipporah (#35)

..youre a dolt..

I am in touch with reality.

You are in touch with stupid conspiracy theories.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   14:07:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Mister Clean (#32) (Edited)

"Oh so let me guess... this whole detention camp thing is being set up for US CITIZENS!!!"

Yep. Considering we incarcerate far more people then any other country, taunt away, brain dead boy.

"The 50 states, the District of Columbia and the federal government held 1,355,748 prisoners (two-thirds of the total incarcerated population), and local municipal and county jails held 665,475 inmates.

By midyear 2002, America's jails held 1 in every 142 U.S. residents. Males were incarcerated at the rate of 1,309 inmates per 100,000 U.S. men, while the female incarceration rate was 113 per 100,000 women residents.

Of the 1,200,203 state prisoners, 3,055 were younger than 18 years old. In addition, adult jails held 7,248 inmates under 18."

Because the rest of us see the big picture. The one where 'state of emergencies' are declared and pesky, troublesome activists -- such as Truthers - - are rounded up, and this policy base that keeps way to many people incarcerated as it is is notched up to a whole new level.

Most of us here at 4UM see through the base of deception and lies you work to preserve.

Quote from: usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/aaprisonpop.htm

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-09-30   14:10:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Mister Clean (#36)

"I am in touch with reality."

You mentally masturbate the paradigm those in power want enforced.

We are more interested in the truth, and the way things actually are. This scares people like you.

Perhaps you are in the wrong place. You should waste more of your time in lie pits such as LP.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-09-30   14:14:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Mister Clean (#36)

..youre a dolt

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   14:14:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Ferret Mike (#37)

hes ignorant regarding history.. look at the Soviet Union.. and Red China.. who did they intern first? Anyone with ANY capacity whatsoever for logic can see it.. so its an utter waste of time attempting to have any exchange with one who choses ignorance...

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   14:17:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Zipporah (#6)

Great post

exdem2000  posted on  2007-09-30   14:24:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Mister Clean (#15) (Edited)

I watched the first few moments of the video. All it talked about was the Bush connection to the Nazi regime.

I seriously doubt there is any connection between the video and this thread.

Except in the mind of the conspiracy theorist.

As I said b/f you have NO clue.. how old are you anyway? .. Im beginning to wonder if youre not some 14 year old sitting at the computer while your mom yells at you to clean your room ..is that where you got the name Mr. Clean? ..

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   14:35:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: exdem2000 (#41)

... at lot to digest..

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   14:36:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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