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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: U.S. Detention Centers are Part of Long-Term DHS Plan: "ENDGAME," Part I
Source: Daily Kos
URL Source: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/30/74155/1739
Published: Sep 30, 2007
Author: Residentcynic
Post Date: 2007-09-30 12:21:35 by Zipporah
Keywords: None
Views: 1529
Comments: 113

U.S. Detention Centers are Part of Long-Term DHS Plan: "ENDGAME," Part I Hotlist

by Residentcynic [Subscribe]

Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:41:55 AM PDT

I recently spent some time on the web researching the Bush Doctrine and neocon (Straussian)-based policy. What I didn’t expect to find was an operational government program which targets immigrants and "potential terrorists" on a grand scale. Never missing an opportunity for Orwellian titles, the Department of Homeland Security has named this little gem "ENDGAME."

Its goal is "the removal of all removable aliens, (including illegal economic migrants, aliens who have committed criminal acts, asylum-seekers required to be retained by law) or potential terrorists." (Executive summary of document)

Can't "potential terrorist" mean, well, anybody?

Details below~~

ENDGAME is the policy executed by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and its sub-agencies, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and the Office of Detention and Removal (DRO), that is part of a sweeping 10-year plan (2002-2012) to: 1) apprehend, 2) incarcerate (detain), 3) "process"—(investigate and question), and 4) remove all removable aliens or potential terrorists. The order of apprehension to removal is literal, as the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) under DHS shifted the traditionally two-pronged approach of 1)investigation, 2)detention-removal to a one-pronged approach in 2000: detention-first and "process" the person while incarcerated. (p. 2-7 of ENDGAME document)

This is especially troubling, as the detention-removal prong was originally set up for aliens who had committed crimes. According to ICE, the investigation prong was discarded in 2000 because incarcerating first "reduce[s] potential demand for detention space, save[s] money,"increase[s] public safety, reduce[s] the potential for future crimes, and enhance[s] the welfare of our society." (2-7)

In 2000, 2004, and most recently on January 22, 2006, DHS awarded Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown, and Root (KBR) a contingency contract from DHS. The 2006 contract gave KBR $385 million "to establish temporary detention and processing capabilities to expand existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S.,or to support the rapid development of new programs."

Two weeks later, on Feb. 6, 2006, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, "announced that the Fiscal Year 2007 federal budget would allocate over $400 million to add 6,700 additional detention beds. This $400 million allocation is more than a four-fold increase over the FY 2006 budget, which provided only $90 million for the same purpose." The contract accomodates "up to 20,000 refugees from environmental and political disasters. A future expansion in 2008 calls for another 20,000 beds."

Four hundred million dollars and 40,000+ beds is certainly a bizarre way to save money and improve efficiency, no? Further, the contingency in the contract provides that KBR gets paid well before an "immigrant emergency" happens, and funds KBR even if an emergency doesn't occur. Representative Henry A. Waxman, (D-CA), called the contract "worrisome."

"With Halliburton's ever expanding track record of overcharging, it's hard to believe that the administration has decided to entrust Halliburton with even more taxpayer dollars," Mr. Waxman said. "With each new contract, the need for real oversight grows."

If KBR building enough detention centers by the end of this year to incarcerate 20,000+ people, and another 20,000 by 2008, isn’t enough to give one pause, the spokespeople should:

"A spokesman for the [Army Corps of Engineers, who issued the bid], Clayton Church, said that the centers could be at unused military sites or temporary structures and that each one would hold up to 5,000 people." He also claimed the reason for the centers were to "feed, house, and protect" the immigrants.

(Perhaps the 30 bases that Rumsfeld decommissioned just weeks after the 9-11 attacks are what they have in mind.)

A spokeswoman for ICE, Jamie Zuieback, said:

"KBR would build the centers only in an emergency like the one when thousands of Cubans floated on rafts to the United States."

She emphasized that the centers might never be built if such an emergency did not arise.

"It's the type of contract that could be used in some kind of mass migration" Ms. Zuieback said.

Mass migration into the United States? The same United States that deports "potential terrorists" to Guantanamo and other far flung renditions? Sorry, I don’t buy it. I believe ENDGAME's program "is designed to house additional detainees who have not been convicted of crimes."

Attorney Ahilan Arulanantham with the ACLU of Southern California told AlterNet":

"Obviously, if the government's intentions are to care for refugees displaced by a natural disaster, we have no problem with that. But with the numbers of detentions, which have exploded since 1996 and more so after Sept. 11 -- and remember after 9/11, the government detained over 1,000 people in New York City, none of whom were linked to terrorist activity -- based on stories like these, we fear that their program could victimize people fleeing persecution or calamity, the very people that the program is designed to help."

BACKGROUND:

Not surprisingly, the original highly classified version of ENDGAME began during the Reagan administration, and was called "Continuity of Government" or COG. The planners included Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld when Cheney was a congressman for Wyoming and Rumsfeld was former defense secretary under Gerald Ford, and CEO of G.D. Serle, a pharmaceutical company.

"Under it U.S. officials furtively carried out detailed planning exercises for keeping the federal government running during and after a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. The program called for setting aside the legal rules for presidential succession in some circumstances, in favor of a secret procedure for putting in place a new "President" and his staff. The idea was to concentrate on speed, to preserve "continuity of government," and to avoid cumbersome procedures; the speaker of the House, the president pro tempore of the Senate, and the rest of Congress would play a greatly diminished role."

"COG proposals included vastly expanded detention capabilities, warrantless eavesdropping and detention, and preparations for greater use of martial law. These men planned for suspension of the Constitution, not just after nuclear attack, but for any "national security emergency," which they defined in Executive Order 12656 of 1988 as: 'Any occurrence, including natural disaster, military attack, technological or other emergency, that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States.'"

COG was made official in 2002 as a Commission, and is "an American Enterprise Institute and Brookings Institution project, funded by the Carnegie, Hewlett, Packard, and MacArthur Foundations." President Jimmy Carter is the honorary chairman and Lloyd Cutler and Alan Simpson are the commission's co-chairs; its members include Newt Gingrich, Leon Panetta, Jamie Gorelick, and other notables. On the website, the introduction describes its reason for existence:

"September 11th raised the possibility that foreign enemies might seriously disrupt the filling of vacancies in Congress, presidential succession, and achieving a quorum for the Court so much so that our basic institutions might not function in a normal constitutional manner."

According to the Washington Post and the 9-11 Commission Report, Vice President Cheney implemented a COG plan in the form of a "shadow government" by the new name of "Continuity of Operations Plan" (COP) immediately after 9-11, which dispatched "100 senior civilian managers to live and work secretly outside Washington, activating for the first time long-standing plans to ensure survival of federal rule after catastrophic attack on the nation's capital." The extent of their operation has never been reported. (Also reported on CBS News and CNN.)

Although I don’t agree with his platform, Rep. Ron Paul has this to say about COG and its Commision:

The "Continuity of Government Commission" (COGC), spearheaded by the Brookings Institution and the American Enterprise Institute, recently issued proposals for the operation of Congress following a catastrophic terrorist attack. Specifically, COGC advocates a constitutional amendment calling for the appointment of individuals to the House of Representatives to fill the seats of dead or incapacitated members, a first in American history. An examination of the proposal reveals that it is both unnecessary and dangerous.

Note that COGC is "self-commissioned," its members being neither elected nor appointed by any government body. The biographies of the commissioners demonstrate that COGC is made up mostly of professional lobbyists. Of course COGC is well-intentioned, but the nation should know exactly who is trying to substitute their wisdom for that of James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and other framers of the Constitution. I think most Americans would prefer that proposals to amend the Constitution come from elected lawmakers or grassroots efforts, not from think tanks and lobbyists.

One reading the COGC proposal cannot help but sense the familiar Washington conceit at work, a conceit that sees America as totally dependent on the workings of Capitol Hill. It is simply unthinkable to many in Washington that the American people might survive a period in which Congress did not pass any new laws. But the truth is that the federal state is not America. The American people have always been remarkably resilient in the face of emergencies, and individual states are far more equipped to deal with emergencies and fill congressional vacancies than COGC imagines.

In summary, ENDGAME is the second phase of a Reagan-era program, COG, furthered by Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld to thwart the constitutional process of succession in case of an national emergency or disaster. ENDGAME is now aligned with the immigration arm of government, and also terrorism. It's goal, or "endgame" is to round up and detain "all" deportable aliens or "potential terrorists" before 2012, some 12 million is a conservative estimate. A heady feat, but well on its way with a $400 million contingency contract awarded to Halliburton's subsidiary, Kellogg, Brown, and Root by the Department of Homeland Security.

If it weren't for everything we've been through these last six years, I wouldn't believe these programs were legitimate. Unfortunately, they are. This isn't the America I know, this is fascism.

I plan on doing another diary, a Part II, in the next week or two, which will detail current ICE abuses and immigration issues. This walk has become a marathon, and I don't want to abscond anyone else's material. BTW, I searched the terms, "ENDGAME" "Detention Centers" "COG" and "KBR" and didn't come up with any diaries on these subjects. Apologies if I repeated anyone's material.

A final note: I tried to keep personal commentary to a minimum (hard!) to let the facts speak for themselves.

Thanks for reading,
RC

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#52. To: Zipporah (#50)

oh yeah, "they" hate it

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-09-30   15:43:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: robin (#52)

Post while we still can :P

Zipporah  posted on  2007-09-30   15:49:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: RickyJ (#47)

This is not about the rich getting richer.

This is about a cult determined to rule the world and everyone in it.

That's what you don't understand.

Still, there's money to be made.

Spare human parts. Medical experimentation. Gladiator type games putting osteo gramma in the ring with pit bulls. Entertainment and Health TV will have a purchase button. Get me that eyeball. I'd like some ground 'Chuck'.

Liver and onions for din din. Michael Vick; Head Chef.

Peppa  posted on  2007-09-30   15:54:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: RickyJ (#47)

This is about a cult determined to rule the world and everyone in it.

You mean they don't rule the world already?

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   16:34:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Ferret Mike (#38)

We are more interested in the truth, and the way things actually are. This scares people like you.

Conspiracy theories are not "truth."

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   16:35:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Ferret Mike (#37)

Yep. Considering we incarcerate far more people then any other country, taunt away, brain dead boy.

How many detention camps are up and running and how many "patriots" and "truthers" are in them?

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   16:36:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Ferret Mike (#37)

The one where 'state of emergencies' are declared and pesky, troublesome activists -- such as Truthers - - are rounded up, and this policy base that keeps way to many people incarcerated as it is is notched up to a whole new level.

They could be doing that right now?

What are they waiting for?

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   16:37:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Mister Clean (#57)

"How many detention camps are up and running and how many "patriots" and "truthers" are in them?"

Quite a few. Many are incarcerated with having committed offenses that are only offenses to flank and take out target populations. Such as the laws against a relatively harmless, even beneficial plant such as cannabis.

I myself have been arrested doing cop watch during unconstitutional harassment of people on the street, and during peaceful and non-violent civil disobedience.

Your dog and pony show answer is faulty as yes indeed, there are political prisoners, and we all are subject now under Bush to arrest we cannot undo as Habeas Corpus under him is no more.

And Der Department of Homeland inSecurity is in a modus wherein they can act instantaneously to redefine as terrorist any legitimate dissent that inconveniences and angers the power elite.

Try again, bozo, give me an answer on this that is not so retarded please.

Thank you.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-09-30   18:44:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Ferret Mike (#59)

"How many detention camps are up and running and how many "patriots" and "truthers" are in them?"

Quite a few. Many are incarcerated with having committed offenses that are only offenses to flank and take out target populations. Such as the laws against a relatively harmless, even beneficial plant such as cannabis.

So potheads and pot dealers are the "patriots" and "truthers" being held in detention camps?

That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   18:47:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Mister Clean (#60)

"So potheads and pot dealers are the "patriots" and "truthers" being held in detention camps?"

It makes as much sense to jail cannabis users as it does people who drink martinis and other alcoholic libations. Alcohol and tobacco are far more dangerous then cannabis ever could be at best.

People who occasionally smoke cannabis are fine, so yes, this is an oppression, one that serves to target the high percentage of people in that demographic group that are part of the group of people folks like you and those you defend are really after.

It is only allegedly funny to you because your purpose is burring and obscuring what is truly happening in this country.

(I also note you take no effort to address what you know is indefensible; the gutting of Habeas Corpus and the oppression bad laws like the Patriot Act serves. This is par for the course with a bozo like you.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-09-30   20:07:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Ferret Mike (#61)

It is only allegedly funny to you because your purpose is burring and obscuring what is truly happening in this country.

People in this country are getting dumber and dumber and believing in more and more idiotic crap.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-09-30   20:17:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Mister Clean (#29)

Worried they'll come and get you?

Where do you think they would deport you to?

LOL!!! Thanks. I needed that!

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-09-30   23:34:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Mister Clean (#30)

When the US invades Canada maybe the whole America-is-turning-into-Nazi-Germany could be taken seriously.

When the US invades joins Mèxico and Canada in the North American Union maybe the whole America United States-is-turning-into- Nazi-Germany could be taken seriously.

NOW the sentance makes sense. Also shows how ridiculous is your idea about so- called illegal aliens, when the entire plan is to have them within the United States.

You should be careful how you use America and the United States, cause the two terms are not interchangeable, according to the US Supreme Court, that is. Two separate jurisdications.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-09-30   23:39:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: richard9151 (#64)

www.mackwhite.com/bush-nazi.gif">

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-09-30   23:43:44 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Mister Clean (#32)

Oh so let me guess... this whole detention camp thing is being set up for US CITIZENS!!!

I am curious as to where you learned about debating? Or, do you simply enjoy giving totally disconnected answers?

What does your comment have to do with the deliberate changes made in immigration laws by the United States government starting in 1965? What does your comment have to do with the refusal of the United States government, over the last 40 years, to enforce the countless laws on the books about illegal aliens working within the US?

Or, possibly, are you bi-polor? Or, is it that you simply can not read and comprehend? Personally, from seeing a few of your posts, I vote for the last.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-09-30   23:46:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Zipporah (#33)

mental midgets would take the time to THINK which apparently is either not an option or is impossible,

No, Zip, that ain't it. No one can be that disconnected unless it is deliberate. There is too much good info posted in 4um by many different people, and those who ignore that info and refuse to acknowledge that there is a serious problem are doing so deliberately.

In other words, it is not ignorance or an accident; it is deliberate dis- information. There is no other answer. Such people are a part of what is revealed in the video.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-09-30   23:50:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Mister Clean (#34)

The rich won't get richer if American consumers are in detention camps.

Really silly statement. First off, America is NOT about money; it was about credit. Two totally different subjects.

Second, since those who control the United States, and feed off of America, already control more than 60% of all of the wealth of the world, now it is about power.

And that is a religious factor/fanatisism. And it all goes back to the Mystery Religion of Babylon, carried forward through the Talmud and the Roman church. But hey, I doubt you got a clue..... or you know much more than you wish to admit.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-09-30   23:55:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Ferret Mike (#37)

Yep. Considering we incarcerate far more people then any other country, taunt away, brain dead boy.

Excellent answer Mike. Thanks. Makes so much so clear, esp. as concerns the natures of the people 'in charge.'

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-09-30   23:57:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: angle (#44)

airport security,

Interesting point. I have the news from Phoenix on in the background, and the airport security goons at the Phoenix airport killed a woman from New York today..... only, this woman is CONNECTED, as in, WELL CONNECTED!

I think they went a step too far this time.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-10-01   0:01:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Zipporah (#51)

consider how much is being spent on them.. what it takes to maintain them.. feed the people who are interred ..it goes on and on...

You bet, Zip, just like the prisons as well, REALLY, REALLY BIG BUSINESS! Good to see you GET it! To hell with those like Ms. Clean who do not.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-10-01   0:03:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: richard9151 (#69)

Thanks, yeah, I have my own theories what this guy does when he is not posting of my own.

Thesis: Official 9/11 story is an unproven conspiracy theory. http://911truth.org http://Justicefor911.org http://summeroftruth.org Probable-cause standards have been met for an unlimited investigation of unsolved crimes relating to the events of Sept. 11, including allegations of criminal negligence, cover-up, complicity or commission of the attacks by US officials and assets of intel services.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2007-10-01   0:46:09 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Ferret Mike (#37)

You are correct.

The United States incarcerates more per capita than any nation in the world, and the reason we do is simple: It's good business for the private prison industry, which absolutely owns the state legislatures through kickbacks in the form of political contributions. This privatization of prisons drives our current zeal for incarceration.

The political fuel comes primarily from the Republican party, which has as a fundamental strategem the criminalizing of millions of citizens for specious reasons, to keep down those who can and will vote for Democrats. The rate of incarceration is directly attributable to Reagan's war on drugs, which is, of course, a war to protect the legitimate drug industry while criminalizing under classes.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-10-01   10:44:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: richard9151 (#66)

What does your comment have to do with the deliberate changes made in immigration laws by the United States government starting in 1965? What does your comment have to do with the refusal of the United States government, over the last 40 years, to enforce the countless laws on the books about illegal aliens working within the US?

Well, if the detention camps aren't for illegal immigrants then they must be for citizens.

Unless they're for Martians.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-10-01   20:17:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: richard9151 (#68)

Really silly statement. First off, America is NOT about money; it was about credit. Two totally different subjects.

America has been and continues to be about money. Credit is just part of the bigger picture.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-10-01   20:23:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Mister Clean (#74)

Well, if the detention camps aren't for illegal immigrants then they must be for citizens.

I never said anything about that, one way or the other. What I did say, and I have posted the proof about it several times, is that the illegals are in the United States because it is the deliberate policy of the United States government to have them within the United States. And the United States government and the judicial system has seen to it that the states offer as many benefits as possible to the illegals to be sure that once they arrive, they stay.

Just as it is the deliberate policy of the United States government to move all manufacturing off shore, put the production of all food into a few strong hands (25 million family farms lost over the last 60 years), and now to outsource computer programming and all related work, and thus destroy the ability of the middle class in America and with that destruction, to limit the ability of the people of America to resist oppression.

And none of this would be possible if it were not for the dependence of America on using credit as a medium of exchange, instead of using money. So do not start with the non-sense about America has always been about money.

This is the result of credit, as used in the world today, as a medum of exchange;

Greenspan's Dark Legacy Unmasked

By Stephen Lendman

Already the top 1% owns 40% of global assets; the top 10% 85% of them; the top 1% in the US controls one-third of the nation's wealth; the bottom 80% just 15.3%; and the top 20% 84.7%. In contrast, the poorest 20% are in debt, owe more than they own, and it's getting worse.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-10-01   21:22:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: richard9151 (#76)

Just as it is the deliberate policy of the United States government to move all manufacturing off shore, put the production of all food into a few strong hands (25 million family farms lost over the last 60 years), and now to outsource computer programming and all related work, and thus destroy the ability of the middle class in America and with that destruction, to limit the ability of the people of America to resist oppression.

And none of this would be possible if it were not for the dependence of America on using credit as a medium of exchange, instead of using money. So do not start with the non-sense about America has always been about money.

Have you ever considered that not everything that happens is part of some sinister plot against the American people?

And when you talk about "dependence" on credit, does the concept of personal responsibility enter your mind?

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-10-01   21:32:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Mister Clean (#77) (Edited)

Have you ever considered that not everything that happens is part of some sinister plot against the American people?

Since it never stops ... and they never fuck up in our favor ... no I think it's a sinister NWO plot. [No border fence after a kazillion terror alerts and 9-11 ... amnesty for TB riddled Mexican rapists, murderers and drug runners]. Dollar devalued by 50% in 5 years, mortgage foreclosures out the wazoo, jobs shipped overseas, unemployed, uneducated people imported in violation of the laws, people tasered to death on a regular basis ...

Geez, Clean ... you gotta be on prozac.

"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins

noone222  posted on  2007-10-01   21:35:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: noone222 (#78)

Since it never stops ... and they never fuck up in our favor ... no I think it's a sinister NWO plot.

The paranoid conspiracy theories never stop. That's for sure.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-10-01   21:36:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Mister Clean, robin, ziporah, Ferret Mike, , *Agriculture-Environment* (#77)

Have you ever considered that not everything that happens is part of some sinister plot against the American people?

That is fine, except that it ignores the facts of life, as revealed by such esteemed politicians as Benjamin Disrali, Franklin Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower and others too numerous to mention. In all cases, these men warned about the combination of powers in the government (whichever government you wish to pick), and always, they individually made the point that there is NEVER an accident in politics. What happens is what was intended to happen.

This is not hard to understand. If, over a period of time, a result occurs as a result of laws being passed, and this observed result is/was different that what was intended in the law when it was passed, then the law will be adjusted until the desired result is achieved. If, on the other hand, what occurs as a result of the law is/was the intneded result, then nothing is done and time drags on.

This is a fact of politics, and in various forms it has been commented on by politicians in many different times and governments.

Since, over a period of 60+ years, America has lost 25 million family farms, then this is the deliberate policy of the United States government, OR, something would have been changed to allivate the problems such farmers were having. And, there have been more than 100 books written about this subject which detail, in painful facts, exactly what is going on.

Since, over a period of 50+ years, America has lost the vast majority of its manufacturing, and it certainly has, then this is revealed as the deliberate policy of the United States government, and, it has nothing to do with eccology so do not go there.

Need I continue?

And when you talk about "dependence" on credit, does the concept of personal responsibility enter your mind?

Bullshit. When credit is the only form of an exchange medium that is permitted within the United States, then it is crass stupidity or delberate ignorance to make such a comment. There is no money in circulation within the United States. The only permitted medium of exchange comes from loans created from nothing by private, commercial banks, all of which are tied into the privately owned Federal Reserve. And since I have been writing and speaking on this subject for more than 20 years, I would not touch it more were I you.

As to why the problems are worse now, and why so many in America no longer have jobs that pay well, blame taxation. As revealed in Bill Clinton's Budget Report to Congress, the ACCUMLATIVE tax rate within the United States would exceed 85% in 2005.

What does that mean? It means that anything which originates within the United States (jurisdiction of) as a resource, and is turned into a product, that 85 cents out of every dollar of cost, is taxes.

And since this is revealed in the budget report of a president, it would be very foolish to make some comment about how all of this is simply an accident. Or, to act as if what is happening to the middle class in America is, somehow, not under the control of the government.

Anything else?

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-10-02   11:33:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: richard9151 (#80)

Since, over a period of 50+ years, America has lost the vast majority of its manufacturing, and it certainly has, then this is revealed as the deliberate policy of the United States government, and, it has nothing to do with eccology so do not go there.

Need I continue?

Nope.

You believe in conspiracy theories, I don't.

End of story.

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-10-02   11:37:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: richard9151 (#80)

And since I have been writing and speaking on this subject for more than 20 years, I would not touch it more were I you.

Fine, I won't touch it.

Have a nice day!

Mister Clean  posted on  2007-10-02   11:38:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Mister Clean (#81)

You believe in conspiracy theories, I don't.

¿Who said anything about a conspiracy theory? I was discussing verifiable government policy. Things that the United States government has been consistently promoting (like illegal immigration) and/or taxing out of existance (such as manufacturing-family farming) over the last 60 years.

There you go, changing the subject again, and, it is obvious, because there is no answer to what I said.

See, this is the problem when you are a shill for an idea; when the real facts are put on the table, you can not answer, because there is no answer to the truth.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-10-02   14:04:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Mister Clean (#82)

Fine, I won't touch it.

See, this is the problem with someone such as yourself;

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

It is for people exactly like you that I use this tag line. Says most all that needs to be said about your posting in 4um.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-10-02   14:06:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Zipporah, *libertarians* (#0)

ping

Why settle for the lesser of two evils, vote Cthulhu!

freepatriot32  posted on  2007-10-02   16:23:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Zipporah, RickyJ (#51)

Let's not forget that those "interned" would be a cheap source of labor, very similar to China's slave factory workers.

In fact, that could be the main goal, allowing major corporations to manufacture new goods here in the US for what they'd pay for labor in China, effectively nothing. They'd eliminate the shipping costs involved in getting those products from China over to here.


You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006

FormerLurker  posted on  2007-10-02   17:17:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: FormerLurker (#86)

Let's not forget that those "interned" would be a cheap source of labor, very similar to China's slave factory workers.

Good point..

Zipporah  posted on  2007-10-02   18:19:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Mister Clean (#77) (Edited)

Have you ever considered that not everything that happens is part of some sinister plot against the American people?

This country was blessed with more natural resources than any other country on earth. We have had some of the most inventive and resourceful people on the planet.

Accordingly, 80 years ago we were the world's #1 creditor nation.

Now we are the world's #1 debtor nation - by a HUGE margin - AND it's not just a small debt either. I don't think that swing could have happened by accident, it had to be planned.

Responsibility in credit is an oxymoron. Credit IS an irresponsible action. Credit is predicated upon usury (interest). Perhaps that is why God specifically told us in Scripture not to participate in usury, neither charge it NOR pay it.

99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
Steven Wright

innieway  posted on  2007-10-03   7:07:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Mister Clean (#81)

You believe in conspiracy theories, I don't.

What is your definition of conspiracy theory?

Diana  posted on  2007-10-03   7:12:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: FormerLurker, RickyJ (#86)

Let's not forget that those "interned" would be a cheap source of labor, very similar to China's slave factory workers.

In fact, that could be the main goal, allowing major corporations to manufacture new goods here in the US for what they'd pay for labor in China, effectively nothing. They'd eliminate the shipping costs involved in getting those products from China over to here.

I have thought that is a real possibility since those who rule us see us as their property.

Diana  posted on  2007-10-03   7:18:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Diana (#89)

What is your definition of conspiracy theory?

It must be "anything that runs contrary to the facts as reported on FOX news".

99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
Steven Wright

innieway  posted on  2007-10-03   7:19:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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