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Title: Are Ed and Elaine Brown Dead?
Source:
Keene Free Press
URL Source: http://www.keenefreepress.com/mambo ... ent&task=view&id=630&Itemid=36
Published: Oct 6, 2007
Author: Kat Kanning
Post Date: 2007-10-07 12:39:01 by JiminyC
Keywords: None
Views: 2683
Comments: 258
Are Ed and Elaine Brown dead? We don't know - the government won't tell where they are, so we cannot verify their condition. If Ed and Elaine had been hurt during their arrest, it would be in the government's interest to withhold this information, since they obviously fear a violent reaction to the arrest from Brown supporters. Until the government chooses to divulge information on the Brown's whereabouts, we will be unable to verify their condition and will have to assume the worst.
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#148. To: RidinShotgun (#146)
You've gotten a thousand dollars worth of tax advice. Free. You won't take it, though, will you?
RS, That's an unfair assessment. I have stated as did Paul Revere that we don't necessarily agree with all the laws. We agree to different methods other then what the browns advocate is all. Just because we advocate staying within the realm of the law to change things we don't like about it, doesn't mean we are defending bad laws. I have stated more then once, that the Browns have done a disservice to real tax protest. They have harmed the cause more then helped it. Being a realist and stating the obvious doesn't make me a defender of tyranny.
Thanks. In a year you can send me a bill saying "this bill is one year old" and I'll send you a birthday card. And since you're an expert on tax code, it shouldn't have been all that difficult for you to pull up the clause where it states "who must file". You didn't do that, though, did you? But I should take your advice?
You argue like a teenager, so I treat you like one.
Okay, I'll accept that. So what method would you suggest? And please don't say "call your representative". When the rules are crooked (which they are) and the dice are loaded (which they are), playing the game will bankrupt you. Of course NOT playing the game will bankrupt you, too, so either way you're about to get screwed.
Argue? Me? You said your advice was worth a thousand dollars and I want you to earn it. Show us the code ... who must file?
I suggest a well organized movement staying within the confines of the law and a non-violent approach. This country needs someone to inspire them to overcome the dark cloud of the government. This country as a whole lacks direction and lacks courage. When the people have to much to risk, very few will gamble when they know the cards are stacked against them. I'm waiting for someone to inspire me.. so far I've seen very little. Lots of good ideas of how things should be, but very little direction in accomplishing that. I don't know an easy fix for this, that's not to say I'm not open minded to one if someone presents it.
Hehehe.........you are one funny dude. Have you tried out for the latest commedian reality show or sumthin? Whatever would possess you to think I have any like or respect for the two dumb sonsabitches whom you think are Murder, Inc., or whatever? What planet do you live on? I was against the bushes and cheneys before you were ever born, sonny. With that said, I call a spade a spade........a jerk is a jerk, a lyin sonofabitch is a lying sonofabitch....I don't care about party, nor tax status. Anything else ya wanna complain, or should I say, whine about? Or tack a label on or call a name? Have at it..... If you think you have a reason to doubt me, check with chrissie-- she's known me for quite a few years now, as has loddy.
Quibblin' over the Browns and their well-intentioned misadventures is a sideshow to the more important emerging fascist state. I just don't agree with Ed Brown being a jerk. Hell He's going to prison while the pricks are having parties and planning their retirement in Paraguay. He at least did something. Naive, too-trusting, not saavy enough, OK. A jerk? I can't in good conscience allow someone who at least did something to be called a jerk unopposed.
No. They've brought it to the attention of some. That's a helluva lot more than what most are doing.
Do you have any idea how fast a serious (lawful) movement to alter the status quo is infiltrated and blown apart from within? I've seen that first hand on more than one occasion. Infiltraters join the group, they work to become everybody's best buddy and then little by little they begin to gnaw away on the integrity of the mission and the cohesiveness of the members. Whenever possible, they try to get the leaders to incriminate themselves.
Get your jollies on with your boyfriend, weirdo. As to my lawyer experience, I know enough to have a well-connected one. And I've seen blatant disregard for the law in many a courtroom with more than a few corrupt judges. Lawyers ain't all that respectable, in my experience.
Sounds a bit like this thread.
Sounds a bit like this thread. Sleeper agents, they're here, they're everywhere.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Internet forums are a prime target for infiltrators to create hate and discontent among liberty lovers. They'll agree with you on every single thing except the really important stuff. FreeRepublic is a prime example of how good they are at it.
Actually, I think most are really ham-handed and very obvious. But a few are good, the ones you're never quite sure about.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Yeah, and I forgot to mention Liberty Forum.
Everyone take a deep breath, or two, and try and remember why most of us are here. For me, it's to read the breaking news of the world, the weird, and interesting information that other members post. Let's try to be civil to one another, but if that's not possible, there is a Bozo Filter, and an Ignore Thread filter at our disposal. We have enough known enemies of freedom, without making enemies of those who should be our friends and allies. imo Peace all.
No matter how good they are at it, most eventually out themselves, especially when they become moderators. But I think the goal is more about continually interrupting good threads than anything sinister. At least I hope that's correct.
Thanks Lodwick. I'll vote for him in the primary (in NH), I honestly don't see much of another choice. To be honest, I'm a bit disheartened with the state of this nation. There was a time I considered myself a 'broken glass republican' today I'm a Capital L libertarian, although the party itself is in dire need of major direction. It needs to learn the art of winning people to their side and being focused.
I think where disruptive trolls are not allowed, it becomes more sly.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
I guess it all depends on who determines who is being a disruptive troll. Personally I detest banning, even of those who probably richly deserve it.
angle, we could banter back and forth all day about it....and get nowhere. You are more impressed that the fella did 'something'--anything, it seems--while I'm not impressed at all that he would be willing to give up all he's worked for all his life INCLUDING his family and family life. Ed's not a spring chicken, nor is Elaine, and to think of coming out of prison and trying to start life anew at that late time isn't something most people would think was very smart. I could have called him a whole lot worse--in fact, I typed several different words, before I erased again and settled on just plain and simple 'jerk'. He isn't dumb in the sense of lack of intelligence. He is dumb in the sense of throwing it all away rather than realizing he can't fight the system and then compounding it with the stupid statements made on a radio program or in news outlets or whatever. He doesn't have enough $$$$$$$$ to wait out the gubmint, nor enough lawyers to make any sort of convincing case in a court of law. Perhaps you're right........and I should have just called the old boy a gambler. AFter all, he gambled that he could do it and get away with it; he gambled he could win in court; he gambled that he could outlast them hole up in his 'hilltop fortress/compound/whatever'; he gambled that he and Elaine could just finish life all hunky dory. About the only thing I could possibly concede in that last scenario is that all of this is a sham; that they wound up getting secret accounts overseas somewhere; and that once they serve their time in prison, they can just take off and go live there and laugh at the system on the million or two that they stuffed away. On all other parts of the scenario, he gambled and he LOST.
Oh, Jim.......there's no problem......I only meant that you and Chrissie are both people who can attest to how much I *puke* 'love' the bastard in chief. Hell, I've even banned myself for language used as it regards him. It just struck me funny that angle would even bring up the liar in chief and vice liar in chief as though I have in any life said anything good or positive about those two...as though somehow I was for 'them' and again the Browns.
.. his ride was prior to the battles of Concord and Lexington.. and the colonists were ready to fight.. so.. quite a bit different
I think it's easily apparent that Ed Brown was, for all intents and purposes, advocating a violent revolution, and that revolutions are either construed as valiant or stupid, depending solely on whether they're successful or not. Since it's apparent that Ed Brown will not succeed (some political figures have risen again after prison), he'll get the stupid label regardless of whether he was brave or not. Wars are hell and always have been.
Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec
Then what are the volumes upon volumes of revised statutes doing in all the law libraries? I'd say cherry picking the law is somebody's favorite passtime. And then there's precedent setting, which knows no cherry picking bounds.
That's possible, but he isn't in jail for advocating revolution. Well, at least not yet. He's there for refusing to pay the piper. The only political figure I can think of who took on the IRS was Rep. George Hanson and believe me, he barely survived their loving attention, much less rose again. Oh, and then there's Traficant, still languishing behind bars for telling it like it is. So who rose from the ashes?
The problem with the LP is that it's next to impossible to organize a bunch of people who are so devoted to non-conformity, which libertarians are. It's the people who believe life should be regulated and controlled that organize much better. Makes me think that the deck is stacked against freedom lovers regardless of the political machine being run.
Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec
I'll concede that RS. When everything's illegal everyone's a criminal, I know the drill. Tax evasion is what we're talking about here with this case. He paid money on some income and hid a large chunk of it to avoid the tax, that's what he was convicted on. It was only as a last stitch effort he attached himself to an already established movement. I believe there are many groups which are taking on the latest and greatest expansion of government. Winning small battles but not the war on rights. At this point I'll join any legitimate cause that's taking on the big brother out of control infringements.
Makes me think that the deck is stacked against freedom lovers regardless of the political machine being run. A post full of wisdom! You've hit the nail on the head. So what should we do?
However, when citizens openly challenge the government, they must recognize that there are ways to challenge the government that have legal and social acceptance, and those that do not. The issue here is one of perception. You, like the majority of the vested, appear to want to believe that the "rules" still have any meaning in the various socially accepted arenas. There have been a few victories in those arenas lately, but I find it hard to believe that it will be allowed to continue. Life is more complicated than simple thoughts and simple homilies. We can all do better than condescension. I posted the Goldwater snippet, written by Karl Hess, for a reason. Here's the full quote: "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." BTW, wasn't Paul Revere a good buddy of Al Hamilton's?
Read New History So WHY did they not take as many of the jackboots with them as possible and begin ARII? Do they not know they will die in prison? Something FUBAR is amiss. No rational person could take the prison option at their ages, especially unjustly.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition If he suggested the judges and kin would pay for his incarceration, then I'd consider them revolutionary fightin' words. I'm not up on the details of what the Browns were convicted of. I assumed it was willful failure. If they filed false documents..... well, what difference does it make in substance? Matters to the sentencing guidelines but not much else. There are patriots that stand on principle, and there are those fake ones that are just looking to have more money. But there is some gray area between those two as it's not wrong to be jealous for money you've rightly earned. If it's yours, then it's yours. Who are we to blame someone for the method they choose to keep what's rightly their own? Sure, Ed may face more charges, perhaps enough to ensure he's never a free man again. Then again if Ed realizes that, he may attempt suicide, which would be a political victory for him. The feds might see value in leaving him hope of one day being free again and choose not to prosecute him further. Mandela. I recall mention of someone else who ran for president from prison. I think that was in Europe but I don't recall the name. I think he won, also. In this country, I can't think of any, though we've only had such opportunities for the past 50-60 years since before that our system was reasonably decent and didn't have political prisoners, so far as I know.
Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec
I believe there are many groups which are taking on the latest and greatest expansion of government. Winning small battles but not the war on rights. At this point I'll join any legitimate cause that's taking on the big brother out of control infringements. I'd be willing to bet there isn't one out of a hundred people who couldn't be convicted for evasion if the taxman really wanted to make mincemeat of them. Figures lie and liars make figures. Anyway, ya know what its like to be smack dab in the middle of doing something and suddenly discovering that whatever it is you're doing is self-destructive and stupid? I don't know, maybe you'd take a page out of someone else's book who seems to have a better plan. Or maybe you'd keep right on doing the self- destructive stupid chit because there are risks involved in that other plan. Its a personal choice. I don't see many groups winning small battles .. granted there are a few. I hear many more talking ... and talking .... and talking about it.
Sadly, I have no idea. Very sadly. But if the system can't be saved, the next best thing is to do what you can to protect yourself. (Did I mention I'm in Ecuador now?)
Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec
I think the initial part of the trial went according to the prosecutor's plan until the Brown's figured out it was a kangaroo court. From what I can gather, the real heavy fightin' words didn't start coming out until sometime after that point. Ah, Mandela. You're right. I was only thinking of the US. Maybe SA jails are less brutal than ours. Think how easily the gray areas could be removed by allowing people to keep their earnings.
Michael Herzog related a story today on something that happened when he and John Stadtmiller took Randy Weaver up to the Brown's home. A Good Morning America producer wanted Ed to appear on that show. The show's policy for interviews even if you're president (according to this producer) is to limit the amount of time for an interview. In his case, it probably would have been 5 mins max. Ed refused to do the interview if they wouldn't give him 30 mins. Michael asked him to please consider the number of viewers he would reach and even offered to help him write key points that he thought would have been important. Ed wouldn't even consider it. Apparently, it's his way or the highway. If he had done this, it would have changed the entire course of events, imo.
You're the wisest man I've heard today.
Read New History i don't know why they did a lot of the things they did. read my post prior to this.
Comments (189 - 258) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThis is probably a good time to change the thread title to "Tax Lawyers Unite".
#149. To: RidinShotgun (#146)
#150. To: Paul Revere (#148)
#151. To: RidinShotgun (#150)
#152. To: Japedo (#149)
#153. To: Paul Revere (#151)
You argue like a teenager, so I treat you like one.
#154. To: RidinShotgun (#152)
#155. To: angle (#119)
Picking on Ed Brown whilst BushCheneyInc are murdering and stealing in the name of your country?
#156. To: rowdee, chritine, lodwick (#155)
check with chrissie-- she's known me for quite a few years now, as has loddy
#157. To: Japedo (#149)
They have harmed the cause more then helped it.
#158. To: Japedo (#154)
I suggest a well organized movement staying within the confines of the law and a non-violent approach.
#159. To: Paul Revere (#137)
Did some big bad lawyer spank your behind some time?
#160. To: Japedo (#154)
#161. To: RidinShotgun (#158)
Infiltraters join the group, they work to become everybody's best buddy and then little by little they begin to gnaw away on the integrity of the mission and the cohesiveness of the members.
#162. To: angle, RidinShotgun (#161)
Infiltraters join the group, they work to become everybody's best buddy and then little by little they begin to gnaw away on the integrity of the mission and the cohesiveness of the members.
#163. To: angle (#161)
Sounds a bit like this thread.
#164. To: RidinShotgun (#163)
#165. To: robin (#162)
(Edited)
#166. To: rowdee, angle, all (#155)
#167. To: robin (#164)
#168. To: lodwick (#160)
#169. To: RidinShotgun (#167)
#170. To: robin (#169)
I think where disruptive trolls are not allowed, it becomes more sly.
#171. To: angle (#156)
#172. To: lodwick, angle (#166)
#173. To: angle (#31)
My god, so was Paul freakin Revere's.
#174. To: Paul Revere, rowdee, all (#121)
#175. To: Japedo (#141)
The law isn't there to Cherry pick
#176. To: Pinguinite (#174)
I think it's easily apparent that Ed Brown was, for all intents and purposes, advocating a violent revolution,
#177. To: Japedo (#168)
today I'm a Capital L libertarian, although the party itself is in dire need of major direction. It needs to learn the art of winning people to their side and being focused.
#178. To: RidinShotgun (#175)
(Edited)
Then what are the volumes upon volumes of revised statutes doing in all the law libraries? I'd say cherry picking the law is somebody's favorite passtime. And then there's precedent setting, which knows no cherry picking bounds.
#179. To: Pinguinite (#177)
The problem with the LP is that it's next to impossible to organize a bunch of people who are so devoted to non-conformity, which libertarians are. It's the people who believe life should be regulated and controlled that organize much better.
#180. To: Paul Revere (#75)
"Abe Foxman, my good friend and partner." - John Negroponte
#181. To: christine (#23)
they are both in their 60s. the feds are going to pile more charges on them and they'll be lucky if they ever see each other again. as hard as this is to say, they'll probably die behind bars
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#182. To: RidinShotgun (#176)
That's possible, but he isn't in jail for advocating revolution. Well, at least not yet. He's there for refusing to pay the piper.
The only political figure I can think of who took on the IRS was Rep. George Hanson and believe me, he barely survived their loving attention, much less rose again. Oh, and then there's Traficant, still languishing behind bars for telling it like it is. So who rose from the ashes?
#183. To: Japedo (#178)
He paid money on some income and hid a large chunk of it to avoid the tax, that's what he was convicted on. It was only as a last stitch effort he attached himself to an already established movement.
#184. To: Japedo (#179)
A post full of wisdom! You've hit the nail on the head. So what should we do?
#185. To: Pinguinite (#182)
If he suggested the judges and kin would pay for his incarceration, then I'd consider them revolutionary fightin' words.
#186. To: angle, all (#111)
(Edited)
#187. To: Pinguinite (#184)
Did I mention I'm in Ecuador now?
"Abe Foxman, my good friend and partner." - John Negroponte
#188. To: IndieTX (#181)
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