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Title: Are Ed and Elaine Brown Dead?
Source:
Keene Free Press
URL Source: http://www.keenefreepress.com/mambo ... ent&task=view&id=630&Itemid=36
Published: Oct 6, 2007
Author: Kat Kanning
Post Date: 2007-10-07 12:39:01 by JiminyC
Keywords: None
Views: 2975
Comments: 258
Are Ed and Elaine Brown dead? We don't know - the government won't tell where they are, so we cannot verify their condition. If Ed and Elaine had been hurt during their arrest, it would be in the government's interest to withhold this information, since they obviously fear a violent reaction to the arrest from Brown supporters. Until the government chooses to divulge information on the Brown's whereabouts, we will be unable to verify their condition and will have to assume the worst.
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#175. To: Japedo (#141)
Then what are the volumes upon volumes of revised statutes doing in all the law libraries? I'd say cherry picking the law is somebody's favorite passtime. And then there's precedent setting, which knows no cherry picking bounds.
That's possible, but he isn't in jail for advocating revolution. Well, at least not yet. He's there for refusing to pay the piper. The only political figure I can think of who took on the IRS was Rep. George Hanson and believe me, he barely survived their loving attention, much less rose again. Oh, and then there's Traficant, still languishing behind bars for telling it like it is. So who rose from the ashes?
The problem with the LP is that it's next to impossible to organize a bunch of people who are so devoted to non-conformity, which libertarians are. It's the people who believe life should be regulated and controlled that organize much better. Makes me think that the deck is stacked against freedom lovers regardless of the political machine being run.
Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec
I'll concede that RS. When everything's illegal everyone's a criminal, I know the drill. Tax evasion is what we're talking about here with this case. He paid money on some income and hid a large chunk of it to avoid the tax, that's what he was convicted on. It was only as a last stitch effort he attached himself to an already established movement. I believe there are many groups which are taking on the latest and greatest expansion of government. Winning small battles but not the war on rights. At this point I'll join any legitimate cause that's taking on the big brother out of control infringements.
Makes me think that the deck is stacked against freedom lovers regardless of the political machine being run. A post full of wisdom! You've hit the nail on the head. So what should we do?
However, when citizens openly challenge the government, they must recognize that there are ways to challenge the government that have legal and social acceptance, and those that do not. The issue here is one of perception. You, like the majority of the vested, appear to want to believe that the "rules" still have any meaning in the various socially accepted arenas. There have been a few victories in those arenas lately, but I find it hard to believe that it will be allowed to continue. Life is more complicated than simple thoughts and simple homilies. We can all do better than condescension. I posted the Goldwater snippet, written by Karl Hess, for a reason. Here's the full quote: "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." BTW, wasn't Paul Revere a good buddy of Al Hamilton's?
Read New History So WHY did they not take as many of the jackboots with them as possible and begin ARII? Do they not know they will die in prison? Something FUBAR is amiss. No rational person could take the prison option at their ages, especially unjustly.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition If he suggested the judges and kin would pay for his incarceration, then I'd consider them revolutionary fightin' words. I'm not up on the details of what the Browns were convicted of. I assumed it was willful failure. If they filed false documents..... well, what difference does it make in substance? Matters to the sentencing guidelines but not much else. There are patriots that stand on principle, and there are those fake ones that are just looking to have more money. But there is some gray area between those two as it's not wrong to be jealous for money you've rightly earned. If it's yours, then it's yours. Who are we to blame someone for the method they choose to keep what's rightly their own? Sure, Ed may face more charges, perhaps enough to ensure he's never a free man again. Then again if Ed realizes that, he may attempt suicide, which would be a political victory for him. The feds might see value in leaving him hope of one day being free again and choose not to prosecute him further. Mandela. I recall mention of someone else who ran for president from prison. I think that was in Europe but I don't recall the name. I think he won, also. In this country, I can't think of any, though we've only had such opportunities for the past 50-60 years since before that our system was reasonably decent and didn't have political prisoners, so far as I know.
Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec
I believe there are many groups which are taking on the latest and greatest expansion of government. Winning small battles but not the war on rights. At this point I'll join any legitimate cause that's taking on the big brother out of control infringements. I'd be willing to bet there isn't one out of a hundred people who couldn't be convicted for evasion if the taxman really wanted to make mincemeat of them. Figures lie and liars make figures. Anyway, ya know what its like to be smack dab in the middle of doing something and suddenly discovering that whatever it is you're doing is self-destructive and stupid? I don't know, maybe you'd take a page out of someone else's book who seems to have a better plan. Or maybe you'd keep right on doing the self- destructive stupid chit because there are risks involved in that other plan. Its a personal choice. I don't see many groups winning small battles .. granted there are a few. I hear many more talking ... and talking .... and talking about it.
Sadly, I have no idea. Very sadly. But if the system can't be saved, the next best thing is to do what you can to protect yourself. (Did I mention I'm in Ecuador now?)
Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec
I think the initial part of the trial went according to the prosecutor's plan until the Brown's figured out it was a kangaroo court. From what I can gather, the real heavy fightin' words didn't start coming out until sometime after that point. Ah, Mandela. You're right. I was only thinking of the US. Maybe SA jails are less brutal than ours. Think how easily the gray areas could be removed by allowing people to keep their earnings.
Michael Herzog related a story today on something that happened when he and John Stadtmiller took Randy Weaver up to the Brown's home. A Good Morning America producer wanted Ed to appear on that show. The show's policy for interviews even if you're president (according to this producer) is to limit the amount of time for an interview. In his case, it probably would have been 5 mins max. Ed refused to do the interview if they wouldn't give him 30 mins. Michael asked him to please consider the number of viewers he would reach and even offered to help him write key points that he thought would have been important. Ed wouldn't even consider it. Apparently, it's his way or the highway. If he had done this, it would have changed the entire course of events, imo.
You're the wisest man I've heard today.
Read New History i don't know why they did a lot of the things they did. read my post prior to this.
He was like that with EVERY media request. I implored him to talk to the media! He didn't or wouldn't understand that any lamestream publicity is good for him, even if they do a hit piece. It was a hit piece that got me interested in the case.
Dumber people than me have done it.
But I think the majority of patriots who have given interviews have regretted it. They edit them down and demonize them. I think the wisest rule is only live interviews that cannot be edited. Would the GMA interview been live?
Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec
Ecuador is no tax paradise. I don't think there is one though Uruguay might come close. But the nice thing about Ecuador is there at least aren't phony lines about our having a bill of rights. If you have money, you can get what you want done, whether inside or outside the courts. In that respect, you can at least be sure what the rules are.
Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec
Time for some Salmon news... just for a nice break. With the way that time is going by, you may have to go back a couple'hundred years now... Thank you.
A consumption tax is constitutional as long as it doesn't invade the privacy of the purchaser by attempting to require government I.D. to track the purchases for some reason or another, such as if a limit were set according to income or wage level by which a cut-off would take place. The reason a consumption tax is legit is because one could decide not to make the purchase if one didn't want to pay the tax.
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
Nice - I had to re-apply for a voter card after I learned that Dr.Paul would be running.
Cool. With all that's going, what we don't need are more "problems." I'm too old, too tired, and too pissed, to deal with them. ;-)
You and I deal in the reality of America today, not what we wish it would be. 1st, you're talking to real "people" with questions, misperceptions and in most cases much angst direcly related to conditions currently existing in America that appear inconsistent with the original intent upon which the country was established. I don't think it necessary to elaborate on each separate issue instantly, but people taking issue with current existing conditions such as the private issuance of fiat currency and the associated cancerous out growths ie., "national debt", income tax, IRS Gestapo and a great multitude of parasitic lawyers, need not be humiliated. Viewing the preceeding commentary on this thread does in fact give me the impression of a drunken bar room argument between slobbering shit-faced patrons. Your ego driven remarks indicate a self-inflicted elitist opinion of yourself that even if justified serves no purpose. Earlier, I mentioned a personal belief that underlies my choice to abstain from any governmental or corporate relationships that might by their existence infer my acceptance of them or status as a member/participant. You replied in an unnecessarily arrogant fashion by referencing biblical authors as goat herders. My comments weren't made in an attempt to persuade anyone else that they take up the goat herders handbook as a reliance defense, my remarks simply let others know that withdrawal from the system is a serious matter that demands more committment than a whimsical interlude created at a patriot meeting. People from all walks of life have in some way or another worked to destroy the favorable conditions intended for this country after the revolutionary war for "independence". I don't think I'd get much argument here, or anywhere in this galaxy for that matter, that attorneys have been "the" most corrosive element contributing to our immediate unacceptable conditions. Lawyers are toadies that rely upon a system of institutionalized grief that results from laws they legislate then litigate. The more lawyers the more litigation. I don't know what happens to well intentioned law students that become callous assholes by the time they earn their degree (or choose a respectable profession), but having had more than ample contact with lawyers and judges I can fairly attest to their mediocrity in most instances. Not only are they made callous in law school, they are convinced, commanded or somehow cowed into submission and acceptance of the status quo. With the current opinion of the President and the Congress more negative than at any other time in history, privacy eliminated, wars concocted, citizens tasered, grannys searched, police state tactics, torture, perverted, bribe taking, lawyer politicians, devaluation/debauchery of the currency ... it's not at all unnatural that people would seek solutions. Some might even look back in time trying to determine where we may have gone wrong or taken a position that time has demonstrated to have been a mistake. That is the reality of America today. Another smart-assed, smart mouthed, sharp tongued lawyer is the last thing any of us or the country really needs. You follow an ancient text written by goatherders or stolen from Mesopotamia pagans, while speaking of others being brainwashed by tales told them since childhood. Proving anything about the goat herders might be difficult but the fact that we've been brainwashed and propagandized into a herd mentality is obvious to anyone near a mail box on April 15th, or anyone witnessing 6 and 7 year old children "PLEDGING ALLEGIANCE" to a flag (good little serfs), High School graduates subject to laws that they haven't been taught anything about ... Mr. Revere, if its brown, and warm, steaming, and looks like shit and smells like shit ... it probably is shit, or on second thought it might just be a lawyer.
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
If he had done this, it would have changed the entire course of events, imo. A Good Morning America producer...well there's a sure bet Ed would have gotten a fair shake, not. With the content filters on the media, how can you possibly be so naive as to come to this conclusion. Look what happened to Rosie.
He laid it on the line though, didn't he? Maybe Ed wasn't too bright about the reality of a possible revolution. Nonetheless, he made a stand. More than 99.99% of the rest of the Umercun peepl.
I'm not going to waste my time reading another installment of your mad rantings, so I didn't read this latest pile you've dumped on the thread. You're a religious nut. Bug someone who values your opinion. I don't.
Standing ovation for your contributions to this thread, noone. The fact that those puffed up in their own "wisdom" don't believe in God, doesn't hinder His plans to bring their "wisdom" to nought.....and as you well know, lawyers were some of the ones He saw coming 2,000 years ago, and singled out for "Woe" [Luke 11]].
Riiiight. The same God who said Jews were his chosen people? You're worshipping a book full of myths, half truths, and stolen stories.
I agree with you, angle....and as of a few moments ago, he STILL was not listed as being at any prison, and therefore is most likely being given the "diesel therapy", or is dead. 9. EDWARD BROWN 03923-049 65 White M 04-30-2012 NOT IN BOP CUSTODY www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp [I think it was Eoghan who provided the link]
yes...once upon a time.... www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Isa/65/15.html You're worshipping a book full of myths, half truths, and stolen stories. nope...I worship the God of truth, not the father of lies.
Right. Your imaginary buddy agrees with you about everything. Isn't that special?
mock me all you want....God is not mocked....as you will find out to your horror one day.
I agree w/your comments on this thread rowdee, and the level of stupidity among most Americans is actually the source of comedy on the late night Leno's and such. I have to laugh at those of well meaning folks who still think educating them is the answer. Anne Sullivan had an easier time with Helen Keller.
I talk to God every day, and he tells me you're full of shit.
then your god must be the father of lies.
Church: where one inbred retard tells other inbred retards stories they all share as mass delusions. Where's your god now, Moses?!
For those who wish to know how the law looks at the tax protester issues, here is a decent reference, which I encourage you to consult. Most of the material promoted by tax protesters is wrong. It's one part fantasy, one part stupidity, and one part wishful thinking. http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html Wishing the tax laws were not there is not the same as making them go away. I hope you will not listen to tax protester nonsense and will take the Brown's experience as a lesson. For the benefit of those who only take their direction from God, I'll quote Jesus. Those who have ears, let them hear.
"gift" from the delusional jews.... www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa066.html#4 ...and their god.... www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev020.html#8 Where's your god now, Moses?! ...coming...
For the benefit of those who only take their direction from God, I'll quote Jesus. Those who have ears, let them hear. www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mar/Mar004.html#23 www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Mar/4/23.html Mat 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Mat 13:10 ¶ And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Mat 13:16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous [men] have desired to see [those things] which ye see, and have not seen [them]; and to hear [those things] which ye hear, and have not heard [them]. Mat 13:18 ¶ Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.......
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html Wishing the tax laws were not there is not the same as making them go away. I hope you will not listen to tax protester nonsense and will take the Brown's experience as a lesson. For the benefit of those who only take their direction from God, I'll quote Jesus. Those who have ears, let them hear. But, more filers than non filers are prosecuted. And if you file and the IRS claims you lied that's felony evasion, but not filing (for an ordinary schmoe) is at worst a misdemeanor, and there always lots of chances to pay up if one chickens out. So, why risk A) a better chance of prosecution and B) a felony charge by filing when its much safer to avoid filing altogether? And, for young people who've never filed, well, if they never do and if the IRS/DOJ can't prove they even know how to then criminal charges are completely out of the question! And, it doesn't matter if so called tax protesters' understanding of the law is correct. all that matters is, it's possible to insulate yourself from seizures and liens and then live your life while not participating in the April Fools' Day (the 15th) ritual at all! The IRS threatened me 15 years ago and I'm still waiting for them to make good on the threat! If I allowed fear mongers to keep me from taking a stand I'd have been bled dry by now and still run a risk of prosecution if I pissed off some politician and he or she sent the IRS to silence me. And, with millions of pages of tax law there's no way anyone can be sure that they are in compliance unless they take no deductions and pay the max, and who can afford that? (That's the whole idea. As one revenoor testified, "The income tax isn't about raising revenue. It's about people control!") And, that's where you thoroughly compromised Judas goats come in to play! Now, get out there and tell those folks some realllly scary stories, okay? I l'l laugh my ass off when I think of you staying up late scribbling numbers and looking for ways to claim questionable "deductions", and paying some accountant to packrat receipts for you, then you driving to the post office and fighting to get in the queue and drop your return in the mailbox before the midnight "deadline"! BWAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH! Now, make sure you pay your taxes! BWAAAAAAAHHHHH!
"BOYCOTT AIR TRAVEL! LET'S PUT THOSE TSA IDIOTS ON THE UNEMPLOYMENT LINE!
I'm not going to help the government do its job, so I'm not going to dissect your comments. Let's just say I sincerely wish you good luck with that.
I have been in touch with Margot Katz of the Concord Monitor and have asked her to look into the whereabouts of Ed. She has responded that she will have an article in the Concord Monitor on this very subject tomorrow. It should be viewable on their website at http://www.concordmonitor.com/ She did not wish to disclose what she knows at this time.
Dumber people than me have done it.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThe law isn't there to Cherry pick
#176. To: Pinguinite (#174)
I think it's easily apparent that Ed Brown was, for all intents and purposes, advocating a violent revolution,
#177. To: Japedo (#168)
today I'm a Capital L libertarian, although the party itself is in dire need of major direction. It needs to learn the art of winning people to their side and being focused.
#178. To: RidinShotgun (#175)
(Edited)
Then what are the volumes upon volumes of revised statutes doing in all the law libraries? I'd say cherry picking the law is somebody's favorite passtime. And then there's precedent setting, which knows no cherry picking bounds.
#179. To: Pinguinite (#177)
The problem with the LP is that it's next to impossible to organize a bunch of people who are so devoted to non-conformity, which libertarians are. It's the people who believe life should be regulated and controlled that organize much better.
#180. To: Paul Revere (#75)
"Abe Foxman, my good friend and partner." - John Negroponte
#181. To: christine (#23)
they are both in their 60s. the feds are going to pile more charges on them and they'll be lucky if they ever see each other again. as hard as this is to say, they'll probably die behind bars
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#182. To: RidinShotgun (#176)
That's possible, but he isn't in jail for advocating revolution. Well, at least not yet. He's there for refusing to pay the piper.
The only political figure I can think of who took on the IRS was Rep. George Hanson and believe me, he barely survived their loving attention, much less rose again. Oh, and then there's Traficant, still languishing behind bars for telling it like it is. So who rose from the ashes?
#183. To: Japedo (#178)
He paid money on some income and hid a large chunk of it to avoid the tax, that's what he was convicted on. It was only as a last stitch effort he attached himself to an already established movement.
#184. To: Japedo (#179)
A post full of wisdom! You've hit the nail on the head. So what should we do?
#185. To: Pinguinite (#182)
If he suggested the judges and kin would pay for his incarceration, then I'd consider them revolutionary fightin' words.
#186. To: angle, all (#111)
(Edited)
#187. To: Pinguinite (#184)
Did I mention I'm in Ecuador now?
"Abe Foxman, my good friend and partner." - John Negroponte
#188. To: IndieTX (#181)
#189. To: christine (#186)
Ed wouldn't even consider it. Apparently, it's his way or the highway. If he had done this, it would have changed the entire course of events, imo.
#190. To: christine (#186)
Ed wouldn't even consider it. Apparently, it's his way or the highway. If he had done this, it would have changed the entire course of events, imo.
#191. To: JiminyC (#187)
#192. To: rowdee (#171)
#193. To: Paul Revere (#121)
I think only by redirecting the populace away from the current system, and towards either a flat tax or a federal sales tax can we hope to end the current system.
#194. To: Japedo (#168)
#195. To: rowdee (#172)
Oh, Jim.......there's no problem.....
#196. To: Paul Revere (#136)
(Edited)
We are talking to people who think the law of the land is whatever misperception they have about what someone intended 100 years ago, or 220 years ago. Some guy thinks he knows what the founding fathers intended, and he's confident that interpretation is the one. Some guy thinks he knows what the income tax amendment means.
#197. To: christine (#186)
#198. To: Zipporah (#173)
.. his ride was prior to the battles of Concord and Lexington.. and the colonists were ready to fight.. so.. quite a bit different
#199. To: noone222 (#196)
(Edited)
#200. To: noone222 (#196)
#201. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#200)
(Edited)
#202. To: angle (#198)
he made a stand. More than 99.99% of the rest of the Umercun peepl.
#203. To: Paul Revere (#201)
The same God who said Jews were his chosen people?
#204. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#203)
(Edited)
#205. To: Paul Revere (#204)
#206. To: rowdee (#106)
#207. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#205)
#208. To: Paul Revere (#207)
#209. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#208)
(Edited)
#210. To: All (#209)
#211. To: Paul Revere (#209)
Church: where one inbred retard tells other inbred retards stories they all share as mass delusions.
#212. To: Paul Revere (#210)
#213. To: Paul Revere, Jethro Tull, Tauzero, christine (#210)
For those who wish to know how the law looks at the tax protester issues, here is a decent reference, which I encourage you to consult. Most of the material promoted by tax protesters is wrong. It's one part fantasy, one part stupidity, and one part wishful thinking.
#214. To: HOUNDDAWG (#213)
#215. To: JiminyC, Paul Revere, HOUNDDAWG, christine, lodwick, noone222, Pinguinite and the rest of you folks interested... (#0)
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