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Dead Constitution
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Title: Are Ed and Elaine Brown Dead?
Source: Keene Free Press
URL Source: http://www.keenefreepress.com/mambo ... ent&task=view&id=630&Itemid=36
Published: Oct 6, 2007
Author: Kat Kanning
Post Date: 2007-10-07 12:39:01 by JiminyC
Keywords: None
Views: 3195
Comments: 258

Are Ed and Elaine Brown dead? We don't know - the government won't tell where they are, so we cannot verify their condition. If Ed and Elaine had been hurt during their arrest, it would be in the government's interest to withhold this information, since they obviously fear a violent reaction to the arrest from Brown supporters. Until the government chooses to divulge information on the Brown's whereabouts, we will be unable to verify their condition and will have to assume the worst.

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Hopefully not the max security one in CO that puts people in solitary confinement 23.5/7. That place is an insanity factory.

Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec

Pinguinite  posted on  2007-10-07   16:45:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If I were making their income I'd have hired a crackerjack CPA and paid as least tribute as possible to the authorities and gone on with my life.

There are tons of people who do this that we never hear about. Ed was the exception that chose otherwise as a matter of conscience, for which we respect him.

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Pinguinite  posted on  2007-10-07   16:49:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

At least they're in jail in New Hampshire...the jails are kinda crude, but they're not likely to be mistreated. I had cops and jailers making phone calls to friends to let them know where I was.

won't they put in federal prisons? are you saying that the locals who work in the NH fed prisons are likely to be kinder?

christine  posted on  2007-10-07   17:14:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

in all the pics and video i saw, he had a piece on his hip.

christine  posted on  2007-10-07   17:15:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

in all the pics and video i saw, he had a piece on his hip.

Thanks - that just makes it stranger and stranger to moi...

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-10-07   17:22:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

God bless him and his wife but they made a mess of what remains of their life.

They couldn't have done it without the Feds.

Read New History

JiminyC  posted on  2007-10-07   17:53:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They have more conviction and courage in their little fingertip than you'll ever hope to have.

angle  posted on  2007-10-07   18:56:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

conviction and courage, yes, but you can't deny that their decisions from beginning to this end has ruined their lives. they are both in their 60s. the feds are going to pile more charges on them and they'll be lucky if they ever see each other again. as hard as this is to say, they'll probably die behind bars. not only that, the government will take everything they own. so much for the Live Free or Die motto. i would bet that right now they're regretting the decisions they made too.

Tom Cryer lucked out in his case. he said so and he and Larry Becraft both advised everyone, "folks don't try this at home."

christine  posted on  2007-10-07   19:31:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Agreed.. now what? What they've worked for all their lives will be gone.. done ..finished. All the time and money wasted for what was a losing proposition from the start.. there are battles and there are battles this isnt one that was winnable IMO.

Zipporah  posted on  2007-10-07   19:49:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They have more conviction and courage in their little fingertip than you'll ever hope to have.

Courage? Mr. Brown, prior to his battle w/the IRS, was a multi millionaire. Toward the end of his odyssey, he referred to himself as “Mr Lewis“. He mentally fell off the cliff and took his wife with him. He's forever is relegated to the patriot KooK Hall of Fame and someone whose tactics should be a reminder of the insanity that grips some decent folks in the patriot movement.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-10-07   20:09:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Agreed.. now what? What they've worked for all their lives will be gone.. done ..finished. All the time and money wasted for what was a losing proposition from the start.. there are battles and there are battles this isnt one that was winnable IMO.

What we are seeing in cases such as this is the same thing ancient tyrants did when they had petty lords in far off regions ignoring their demands for tribute: They lay siege on the recalcitrant, they eventually go in, seize the recalcitrant, and promptly impale him for all to see. They seize all his property, and cast forever his memory as an enemy of the state.

These two will never see the light of day again, sadly.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-10-07   20:24:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

What we are seeing in cases such as this is the same thing ancient tyrants did when they had petty lords in far off regions ignoring their demands for tribute: They lay siege on the recalcitrant, they eventually go in, seize the recalcitrant, and promptly impale him for all to see. They seize all his property, and cast forever his memory as an enemy of the state.

These two will never see the light of day again, sadly.

IMO it was a fool's mission.. those who have money will not win.. and as I said b/f to what end? Exactly what has happened.. they've lost everything.. their legacy is just as youve said.. enemies of the state. Those who encouraged these people to stay the course.. need to be flogged.

Zipporah  posted on  2007-10-07   20:29:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

These two will never see the light of day again, sadly.

I agree, and since not a soul except a few on scatered internet forums know of their troubles, their effort was a waste.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-10-07   20:29:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

There are tons of people who do this that we never hear about.

And the contrary is also true. Many folks choose to fight the system only to be beaten down like a dog, w/o anyone except their immediate families knowing the devistation they suffer. Here’s my best advice for anyone who gives a rip what I think; if you have assets, and choose to stay in America, pay the bastards the least amt. of $ you can get away with. If you have nothing,be my guest and test all these wild tax theories. Should they fail, bolt the nation.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-10-07   20:43:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I agree, and since not a soul except a few on scattered internet forums know of their troubles, their effort was a waste.

Since we don't even know where they are, let's withhold judgment.

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-10-07   21:00:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

IMO it was a fool's mission..

My god, so was Paul freakin Revere's.

angle  posted on  2007-10-07   21:34:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Mr. Brown, prior to his battle w/the IRS, was a multi millionaire.

There are things more important than money.

angle  posted on  2007-10-07   21:36:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If anyone failed, it was us, the ones who knew and did nothing; who know and do nothing.

angle  posted on  2007-10-07   21:37:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

At least they're in jail in New Hampshire..

We don't really know if they're in a jail in New Hampshire, do we? If they're being treated to diesel therapy, like they did to Rep. George Hanson who wrote "To Harass Our People" detailing IRS abuses (a book everyone should read), they'd no doubt be spending more time in the air or on busses than they would be in any particular facility.

The thing that confuses me is that I was under the impression that the Browns were never alone on their property and that there was a constant stream of supporters staying with them. If that's true, there could be a lot more to this story than we're currently hearing and I guess the only way we'll know about that for sure is if the friends and families of people who were supposed to be there start wondering why they aren't checking in with them on a regular basis.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-07   21:55:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

When I visited Ed, he carried a 45 tucked in the back of his pants.

I was let in without a search and without much skepticism. I found the lack of scrutiny quite unsettling.

Dumber people than me have done it.

Critter  posted on  2007-10-07   21:59:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Not good, at all.

Thank you for the report.

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-10-07   22:02:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

i'll NEVER understand why they did this. they had to have known this is the MO of the feds.

I suppose they didn't like the idea of living on the run while their self- sufficient property just sat there vacant. Besides, running would be especially hard for a woman of Elaine's age. And obviously they believed they'd have enough support for their cause ... sadly, the shoe just hasn't pinched enough toes quite tight enough yet so widespread support just isn't there. Of course by the time it is finally there, it'll be WAY too late.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-07   22:06:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

My god, so was Paul freakin Revere's.

No, Revere had an army of patriots behind him and he/they fired a shot. We don't, hence a useless effort.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-10-07   22:10:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Ed alienated a lot of potential support. I know this from first hand experience with him.

Anyone with any sense bailed out on him pretty early on.

Dumber people than me have done it.

Critter  posted on  2007-10-07   22:13:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

No, Revere had an army of patriots behind him and he/they fired a shot. We don't, hence a useless effort.

So you think no patriots suffered greatly at the hands of the king PRIOR to Paul Revere's ride? It all started that night? He came with a ready made army and there was no quibbling, or violent disagreements amongst the colonists about which course of action should be taken.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-07   22:14:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Ed alienated a lot of potential support. I know this from first hand experience with him.

Anyone with any sense bailed out on him pretty early on.

Sure. Everybody wants to run the show and I suppose he was no different in that regard, since it was his show. And his conviction. Unfortunately, people can be right and still piss a lot of people off in the process. Whether or not he was right isn't mine to judge, it was his neck on the block, so I'll cut him some slack.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-07   22:20:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I'll cut him all the slack in the world while I pray that my involvement in the beginning doesn't get me a 10 year bid. lol

Dumber people than me have done it.

Critter  posted on  2007-10-07   22:23:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

My point is all this founding rather nonsense is ancient history. What back then could be challenged, man to man, on even terms with muskets is now an absurd notion. For Ed “Lewis” Brown to have an open door policy to his home while at the same time thinking he could put a dent in a Kevlar vest with a .45 cal. was lunacy. I’d have paid my taxes, call me what you want.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-10-07   22:27:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Here’s my best advice for anyone who gives a rip what I think; if you have assets, and choose to stay in America, pay the bastards the least amt. of $ you can get away with.

There's another option for those who don't mind playing paperwork: Create a network of business entities and trusts that own and control one another. Whenever you personally need money, you borrow it. Borrowing money is not a taxable event, and even the IRS acknowledges that. Of course if you do that perpetually, then by the time you die you owe millions, so that's something you have to live with.

Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec

Pinguinite  posted on  2007-10-07   22:34:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I pray that my involvement in the beginning doesn't get me a 10 year bid. lol

No one's safe and vocal people are especially unsafe, so everybody pretty much jams a sock in it. But the revenuers can go after anyone they want at any time they want and write the story after the fact, however they please, knowing a large enough percent of the population will swallow whatever garbage is waved in front of their faces.

Like old blind ladies in wheelchairs really DO deserve to be tased, and kids who drop a chunk of cake on the sidewalk really SHOULD have their wrists broken, and idiots who show up with cameras at the wrong places and times are a genuine threat to society, so they MUST be arrested and charged. With something. And if all else fails to generate enough fear, there are the revenuers.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-07   22:37:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They have more conviction and courage in their little fingertip than you'll ever hope to have

angle ol' buddy,

When I sent my letter to President Reagan in 1983 I said that I'd never file another return "for the convenience of the IRS again!"

Now, people in that income bracket actually pay a smaller percentage than working stiffs who are subject to wage withholding, and if Bush had his way the Browns' corporations would be completely exempt!

If I made that kinda bux I'd stay barely in compliance so I could trumpet info that damages their collection and enforcement efforts, just as attorney Larry Becraft does.

And, because the Browns actually filed incorrect documents and hid income I wouldn't exactly hold them up as shining examples of principled resisters.

If they were principled they'd work in professions that allow them to shift funds away from the IRS' grasp and not misrepresent the actual numbers, instead of pretending to comply while stuffing money into mattresses.

Remember, they were not involved in the tax education movement before their legal troubles began, so it wasn't so much about principled patriotism as it was avoiding taxes. And, they didn't use the methods that principled patriots use. I don't file at all. If I filed and fibbed then I wouldn't claim to be acting on principle if I was targeted for prosecution.

That doesn't wash in my code of ethics.

__________________________

And, to others:

Why do you assume that the Browns are in NH?

They could be in GITMO by now. In fact, when you consider that the enforcement of PROHIBITION was at its all time worst immediately before repeal (the govt didn't want to let go) that's probably what the govt will do to someone before the issue is settled once and for all.

"BOYCOTT AIR TRAVEL! LET'S PUT THOSE TSA IDIOTS ON THE UNEMPLOYMENT LINE!

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-10-07   22:40:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

My point is all this founding rather nonsense is ancient history. What back then could be challenged, man to man, on even terms with muskets is now an absurd notion.

Wrong.

The Price They Paid by Gary Hildreth

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?

Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons in the Revolutionary Army, another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War.

They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.

What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured.

Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.

Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.

Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.

At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt.

Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.

John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart. Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates.

Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. These were not wild eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing tall, straight, and unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-07   22:42:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

When I visited Ed, he carried a 45 tucked in the back of his pants.

I was let in without a search and without much skepticism. I found the lack of scrutiny quite unsettling.

i asked you about this on the other thread before i saw your posts here. gooooood lord, what the heck were they thinking? everyone knows the feds infiltrate these groups. everyone should have been vetted.

christine  posted on  2007-10-07   23:31:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Ed said way too much, taunted the feds way too much, and was way too lax in his security for my taste.

Dumber people than me have done it.

Critter  posted on  2007-10-07   23:35:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If anyone failed, it was us, the ones who knew and did nothing;

been there done that. i'm sorry that my husband and i started our fight with them. the lesson learned and learning, if you got anything, they're not going to leave you alone and they're going to try to get everything you own. they don't play fair ever cuz there is no law....no law that they have to abide by.

christine  posted on  2007-10-07   23:37:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Is this the story that came out several years ago? One that I believe Pat Buchanan made note of; there were numerous radio hosts that did likewise. IIRC, it was essentially debunked.

rowdee  posted on  2007-10-08   0:05:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They can certainly tie up everything in your name........from a safety deposit box, to all banking accounts, car titles, land titles, wages, investments, and the like.

And the good folks at the IRS can lie when answering you and it doesn't absolve you from what they declare is due them. If you keep tabs on who told you what, if they're in a generous mood, they will defer any penalty and interest if you can tell them who gave you the bad info.

rowdee  posted on  2007-10-08   0:08:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

i'm sorry that my husband and i started our fight with them. the lesson learned and learning

I was once so naive in thinking that the government, police et al would obey the law if pressed. You learn otherwise once you deal with them.

I also reached a point where I knew it would be pointless to continue banging my head up against a wall.

Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec

Pinguinite  posted on  2007-10-08   0:34:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If you have nothing,be my guest and test all these wild tax theories.

If you have nothing, the IRS leaves you alone. They only bite into juicy targets that are easy pickins.

Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec

Pinguinite  posted on  2007-10-08   0:36:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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