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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Are Ed and Elaine Brown Dead?
Source: Keene Free Press
URL Source: http://www.keenefreepress.com/mambo ... ent&task=view&id=630&Itemid=36
Published: Oct 6, 2007
Author: Kat Kanning
Post Date: 2007-10-07 12:39:01 by JiminyC
Keywords: None
Views: 3084
Comments: 258

Are Ed and Elaine Brown dead? We don't know - the government won't tell where they are, so we cannot verify their condition. If Ed and Elaine had been hurt during their arrest, it would be in the government's interest to withhold this information, since they obviously fear a violent reaction to the arrest from Brown supporters. Until the government chooses to divulge information on the Brown's whereabouts, we will be unable to verify their condition and will have to assume the worst.

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These two will never see the light of day again, sadly.

I agree, and since not a soul except a few on scatered internet forums know of their troubles, their effort was a waste.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-10-07   20:29:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

There are tons of people who do this that we never hear about.

And the contrary is also true. Many folks choose to fight the system only to be beaten down like a dog, w/o anyone except their immediate families knowing the devistation they suffer. Here’s my best advice for anyone who gives a rip what I think; if you have assets, and choose to stay in America, pay the bastards the least amt. of $ you can get away with. If you have nothing,be my guest and test all these wild tax theories. Should they fail, bolt the nation.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-10-07   20:43:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I agree, and since not a soul except a few on scattered internet forums know of their troubles, their effort was a waste.

Since we don't even know where they are, let's withhold judgment.

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-10-07   21:00:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

IMO it was a fool's mission..

My god, so was Paul freakin Revere's.

angle  posted on  2007-10-07   21:34:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Mr. Brown, prior to his battle w/the IRS, was a multi millionaire.

There are things more important than money.

angle  posted on  2007-10-07   21:36:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If anyone failed, it was us, the ones who knew and did nothing; who know and do nothing.

angle  posted on  2007-10-07   21:37:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

At least they're in jail in New Hampshire..

We don't really know if they're in a jail in New Hampshire, do we? If they're being treated to diesel therapy, like they did to Rep. George Hanson who wrote "To Harass Our People" detailing IRS abuses (a book everyone should read), they'd no doubt be spending more time in the air or on busses than they would be in any particular facility.

The thing that confuses me is that I was under the impression that the Browns were never alone on their property and that there was a constant stream of supporters staying with them. If that's true, there could be a lot more to this story than we're currently hearing and I guess the only way we'll know about that for sure is if the friends and families of people who were supposed to be there start wondering why they aren't checking in with them on a regular basis.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-07   21:55:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

When I visited Ed, he carried a 45 tucked in the back of his pants.

I was let in without a search and without much skepticism. I found the lack of scrutiny quite unsettling.

Dumber people than me have done it.

Critter  posted on  2007-10-07   21:59:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Not good, at all.

Thank you for the report.

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-10-07   22:02:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

i'll NEVER understand why they did this. they had to have known this is the MO of the feds.

I suppose they didn't like the idea of living on the run while their self- sufficient property just sat there vacant. Besides, running would be especially hard for a woman of Elaine's age. And obviously they believed they'd have enough support for their cause ... sadly, the shoe just hasn't pinched enough toes quite tight enough yet so widespread support just isn't there. Of course by the time it is finally there, it'll be WAY too late.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-07   22:06:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

My god, so was Paul freakin Revere's.

No, Revere had an army of patriots behind him and he/they fired a shot. We don't, hence a useless effort.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-10-07   22:10:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Ed alienated a lot of potential support. I know this from first hand experience with him.

Anyone with any sense bailed out on him pretty early on.

Dumber people than me have done it.

Critter  posted on  2007-10-07   22:13:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

No, Revere had an army of patriots behind him and he/they fired a shot. We don't, hence a useless effort.

So you think no patriots suffered greatly at the hands of the king PRIOR to Paul Revere's ride? It all started that night? He came with a ready made army and there was no quibbling, or violent disagreements amongst the colonists about which course of action should be taken.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-07   22:14:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Ed alienated a lot of potential support. I know this from first hand experience with him.

Anyone with any sense bailed out on him pretty early on.

Sure. Everybody wants to run the show and I suppose he was no different in that regard, since it was his show. And his conviction. Unfortunately, people can be right and still piss a lot of people off in the process. Whether or not he was right isn't mine to judge, it was his neck on the block, so I'll cut him some slack.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-07   22:20:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I'll cut him all the slack in the world while I pray that my involvement in the beginning doesn't get me a 10 year bid. lol

Dumber people than me have done it.

Critter  posted on  2007-10-07   22:23:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

My point is all this founding rather nonsense is ancient history. What back then could be challenged, man to man, on even terms with muskets is now an absurd notion. For Ed “Lewis” Brown to have an open door policy to his home while at the same time thinking he could put a dent in a Kevlar vest with a .45 cal. was lunacy. I’d have paid my taxes, call me what you want.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-10-07   22:27:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Here’s my best advice for anyone who gives a rip what I think; if you have assets, and choose to stay in America, pay the bastards the least amt. of $ you can get away with.

There's another option for those who don't mind playing paperwork: Create a network of business entities and trusts that own and control one another. Whenever you personally need money, you borrow it. Borrowing money is not a taxable event, and even the IRS acknowledges that. Of course if you do that perpetually, then by the time you die you owe millions, so that's something you have to live with.

Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec

Pinguinite  posted on  2007-10-07   22:34:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I pray that my involvement in the beginning doesn't get me a 10 year bid. lol

No one's safe and vocal people are especially unsafe, so everybody pretty much jams a sock in it. But the revenuers can go after anyone they want at any time they want and write the story after the fact, however they please, knowing a large enough percent of the population will swallow whatever garbage is waved in front of their faces.

Like old blind ladies in wheelchairs really DO deserve to be tased, and kids who drop a chunk of cake on the sidewalk really SHOULD have their wrists broken, and idiots who show up with cameras at the wrong places and times are a genuine threat to society, so they MUST be arrested and charged. With something. And if all else fails to generate enough fear, there are the revenuers.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-07   22:37:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They have more conviction and courage in their little fingertip than you'll ever hope to have

angle ol' buddy,

When I sent my letter to President Reagan in 1983 I said that I'd never file another return "for the convenience of the IRS again!"

Now, people in that income bracket actually pay a smaller percentage than working stiffs who are subject to wage withholding, and if Bush had his way the Browns' corporations would be completely exempt!

If I made that kinda bux I'd stay barely in compliance so I could trumpet info that damages their collection and enforcement efforts, just as attorney Larry Becraft does.

And, because the Browns actually filed incorrect documents and hid income I wouldn't exactly hold them up as shining examples of principled resisters.

If they were principled they'd work in professions that allow them to shift funds away from the IRS' grasp and not misrepresent the actual numbers, instead of pretending to comply while stuffing money into mattresses.

Remember, they were not involved in the tax education movement before their legal troubles began, so it wasn't so much about principled patriotism as it was avoiding taxes. And, they didn't use the methods that principled patriots use. I don't file at all. If I filed and fibbed then I wouldn't claim to be acting on principle if I was targeted for prosecution.

That doesn't wash in my code of ethics.

__________________________

And, to others:

Why do you assume that the Browns are in NH?

They could be in GITMO by now. In fact, when you consider that the enforcement of PROHIBITION was at its all time worst immediately before repeal (the govt didn't want to let go) that's probably what the govt will do to someone before the issue is settled once and for all.

"BOYCOTT AIR TRAVEL! LET'S PUT THOSE TSA IDIOTS ON THE UNEMPLOYMENT LINE!

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-10-07   22:40:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

My point is all this founding rather nonsense is ancient history. What back then could be challenged, man to man, on even terms with muskets is now an absurd notion.

Wrong.

The Price They Paid by Gary Hildreth

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?

Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons in the Revolutionary Army, another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War.

They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.

What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured.

Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.

Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.

Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.

At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt.

Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.

John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart. Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates.

Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. These were not wild eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing tall, straight, and unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-07   22:42:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

When I visited Ed, he carried a 45 tucked in the back of his pants.

I was let in without a search and without much skepticism. I found the lack of scrutiny quite unsettling.

i asked you about this on the other thread before i saw your posts here. gooooood lord, what the heck were they thinking? everyone knows the feds infiltrate these groups. everyone should have been vetted.

christine  posted on  2007-10-07   23:31:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Ed said way too much, taunted the feds way too much, and was way too lax in his security for my taste.

Dumber people than me have done it.

Critter  posted on  2007-10-07   23:35:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If anyone failed, it was us, the ones who knew and did nothing;

been there done that. i'm sorry that my husband and i started our fight with them. the lesson learned and learning, if you got anything, they're not going to leave you alone and they're going to try to get everything you own. they don't play fair ever cuz there is no law....no law that they have to abide by.

christine  posted on  2007-10-07   23:37:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Is this the story that came out several years ago? One that I believe Pat Buchanan made note of; there were numerous radio hosts that did likewise. IIRC, it was essentially debunked.

rowdee  posted on  2007-10-08   0:05:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They can certainly tie up everything in your name........from a safety deposit box, to all banking accounts, car titles, land titles, wages, investments, and the like.

And the good folks at the IRS can lie when answering you and it doesn't absolve you from what they declare is due them. If you keep tabs on who told you what, if they're in a generous mood, they will defer any penalty and interest if you can tell them who gave you the bad info.

rowdee  posted on  2007-10-08   0:08:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

i'm sorry that my husband and i started our fight with them. the lesson learned and learning

I was once so naive in thinking that the government, police et al would obey the law if pressed. You learn otherwise once you deal with them.

I also reached a point where I knew it would be pointless to continue banging my head up against a wall.

Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec

Pinguinite  posted on  2007-10-08   0:34:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If you have nothing,be my guest and test all these wild tax theories.

If you have nothing, the IRS leaves you alone. They only bite into juicy targets that are easy pickins.

Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec

Pinguinite  posted on  2007-10-08   0:36:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Ed said way too much, taunted the feds way too much, and was way too lax in his security for my taste.

That's why so many people like the guy. If a million people would stand up and do what he did the income tax would be dead in America. A few here and few there is a start. Bowing down to these SOBs will make you a slave. If you can live with that then you have no right to be free.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2007-10-08   3:06:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

When dealing with something like the Browns, it is important to recognize that more than one issue is in play, and therefore, we should attempt to delineate among those issues.

For some, this is a taxpayer protest issue.

For some, this is an issue of IRS and government excess.

For some, this is simply the government doing its job.

The evidence seems to suggest that the Browns were not classic tax protestors, but classic tax evaders. Most tax evaders acknowledge their wrong, negotiate a deal, pay a penalty and back taxes, and avoid criminal prosecution or sanctions. The percentage of federal prisoners who are in prison for taxes is truly small. Without addressing whether the income tax is legit, we do know that the Browns actively misrepresented their income in filings with the IRS. This is much different from tax protest. This is tax evasion.

Classic tax protestors refuse to acknowledge that the IRS and that the taxes sought are legitimate. I'm not going to attempt to address that notion, because there's not much to discuss. Whether the income tax is legitimate is a question that has been answered by those who are in a position to indict, prosecute and imprison dissenters. The courts, the IRS, the prosecutors, and most importantly, the public at large, accept the income tax and the right of the government to enforce it.

When someone like the Browns hides income, then files false information, then espouses tax protestor status, then talks of not being taken alive, they open themselves up for maximum grief and government retribution.

I do not like it when our government uses its muscle against citizens. However, when citizens openly challenge the government, they must recognize that there are ways to challenge the government that have legal and social acceptance, and those that do not. We have an accepted way. It's in the court house and in the court of public opinion. It is not playing at tax protestor, talking big, and drawing in a line in the dirt with the federal government.

I am appalled at the way the IRS and our government sometimes behave. I am also appalled at the way some pit bulls attack people. One should understand when and how to interact with the IRS and pit bulls, and also know when and how not to.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-10-08   4:03:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Certain criteria are expected of everyone in a free and transparent society which expects financial support from the citizens.

An honest response to the simple question "what law makes me liable for or subject to the income tax"; a question that has been asked by many people numerous times would be a good place to start.

While I remain ignorant of the Brown's particulars I question the methods being utilized by most government agencies that promote continued misconceptions on the part of citizens that have asked for clarification.

Further, confiscation of personal property, bank accounts, computer hard drives, and other materials necessary to litigate the issues prior to litigation deprive the citizen (individual) of due process and equal protection under the law. There is an articuable bias towards the IRS being demonstrated in most tax cases to such an extent that these hearings/trials operate as summary judgments independent of the evidence.

Simply put, we're instructed from childhood about how free we are, how we are the government, and how superior our system is to others that aren't predicated upon a written constitution which serves as the foundation for all other laws, regulations and codes. Our educational process doesn't include much effort towards our legal knowledge by the time we reach legal majority. More accurately stated we know nothing of the law or court procedures after completion of 12th Grade, yet we're bound to operate within the laws, which are plentiful. Even trained lawyers specialize in limited areas because there are so many categories to be addressed.

A system that demands the participation of everyone regardless of their intelligence or education level should be a simplified one to be fair and in the case of the IRS Code it doesn't appear that even the creators comprehend it.

Lastly, when the system of law doesn't appear to square with the fundamental (constitutional) law, and an individual with an alleged right to redress requests an answer to this discrepancy, incarceration, confiscation and litigation do not contribute much to the notion of honest and transparent government.

Our government forgives billions of dollars in debt annually, mostly that of foreigners while at the same time it pulls out all of the stops to prosecute its own citizens. Forgive me for calling a spade a spade, but regardless of the hidden principles upon which tax laws rely upon to justify collection, the people that operate to enforce them act contrary to all commonly accepted behavior conducive to a civilized society.

Ed and Elaine are just 2 more casualties of the federal notion of FREEDOM. I'm of the opinion that this behavior on the part of the IRS will continue until a violent revolution takes place because there appears to be no shortage of assholes who will do anything to obtain a pay check and the IRS has managed to hire a sufficient number of them.

I have been asked at times to explain withdrawal from the system to people that have become interested in the subject. I usually refuse because it's not a simple silver bullet sort of solution that is easily understood, nor does it make life simple. It becomes a way of life not enjoyed by the timid. I did it strictly because I determined the SSN fit all of the requirements of the Mark of the Beast that is described in the Bible. There are a lot of other reasons to be sure, but not many that instill the intestinal fortitude necessary to take on the federal government.

I determined that the penalty for accepting the Mark outweighed anything the government could do to me. So, my decision to withdraw completely from their system had little to do with the potential repurcussions government might impose, but upon the penalty God will impose.

Most people are able to convince themselves that my determination re. the Mark is in error especially when they come under pressure or decide the inconvenience is ludicrous. I don't blame them for their decision and subsequently I generally reject requests to proselytize the withdrawal process. I think anyone serious enough to withdraw must have the conviction and will to carry it out independent of me. I might add that it must be a spiritual conviction that supercedes all concerns one might have regarding freedom, materialism or life itself. The guys on the other side of the equation play for keeps, they've shown themselves to be callous murdering thugs and to underestimate them is fatal. To assist someone else in taking such a position is a responsiblity that I am not inclined to take mainly because people usually have the wrong motivation to begin with and secondly they usually do a half assed job of it and remain "in" the system.

My fervent hope is that the system will implode and afford the opportunity for people to opt out of any replacement system.

"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins

noone222  posted on  2007-10-08   7:55:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The guys on the other side of the equation play for keeps, they've shown themselves to be callous murdering thugs and to underestimate them is fatal.

Well written rebuttal.

angle  posted on  2007-10-08   8:10:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I once invested in a business situation that caused a great deal of grief and heart-burn. After much litigation and associated expense I asked myself ...wtf, and then resorted to analyzing the pros and cons. In the end I was able to console myself by considering the experience, knowledge and some of the people involved, that I would never have otherwise known, as the value received. All of the challenges strengthen us, the mistakes educate us and in my case made me re-evaluate the temporary arrangements we enjoy in this life and the fact that they can change for a million reasons, some righteous and others not.

All things indicate to me that we're on the precipice of events that will require the training and determined patience we're getting now.

God, I hope I'm wrong.

"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins

noone222  posted on  2007-10-08   8:11:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

"For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."

There are things more important than life.

angle  posted on  2007-10-08   8:16:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Thanks ... there's a movie available at netflix called "The Take" about the collapse of the Argentine economic system and its rebirth. It's worth viewing because it demonstrates the difficulty in establishing a new system free from the qualities and parties that tainted the previous one.

"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins

noone222  posted on  2007-10-08   8:21:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The thing that blows my mind is that BushCheneyInc murder at will in the name of our country. No one is surrounding their homes and dragging them to prison. The Browns, however misguided, resisted what they perceived as illegal confiscation of their wealth. And where are they?

angle  posted on  2007-10-08   8:26:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

IIRC, it was essentially debunked.

I just love it when somebody says something "was debunked" without telling us by whom it was debunked, or when, or giving any details of its debunking.

So are you saying these people didn't exist? Or that they just weren't harmed by the British? Are we supposed to believe the run-up to the revolution was sterile and passive? What?

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-08   9:00:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

thanks for that history review of sacrifices

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-10-08   9:12:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

However, when citizens openly challenge the government...

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice."

Read New History

JiminyC  posted on  2007-10-08   9:17:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

There are things more important than life.

And there are more important things than "toys". Many people don't rock any boats simply because they're afraid they'll lose the toys they've worked so hard to get.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-08   9:28:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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