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Neocon Nuttery
See other Neocon Nuttery Articles

Title: Frost family draws ire of conservatives
Source: Baltimore Sun
URL Source: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/na ... page=1&coll=bal-iraq-headlines
Published: Oct 10, 2007
Author: Matthew Hay Brown
Post Date: 2007-10-10 09:23:59 by aristeides
Keywords: None
Views: 527
Comments: 19

Frost family draws ire of conservatives

By Matthew Hay Brown | Sun Reporter
October 10, 2007

When Halsey and Bonnie Frost agreed to go public with how the State Children's Health Insurance Program helped them after a car crash left two of their children comatose, the Baltimore couple expected to hear from critics of government-funded health care.

But while the Frosts were helping a bipartisan majority in Congress sell a plan to expand the program, they were not prepared for comments such as this one, posted over the weekend on the conservative Web site Redstate:

"If federal funds were required [they] could die for all I care. Let the parents get second jobs, let their state foot the bill or let them seek help from private charities. ... I would hire a team of PIs and find out exactly how much their parents made and where they spent every nickel. Then I'd do everything possible to destroy their lives with that info."

So has begun the education of the Frosts, the young family of six who volunteered to advocate for the program for moderate-income families - the expansion has been approved by Congress but vetoed by President Bush - and now find themselves the focus of a nasty national debate.

The onslaught began over the weekend, a week after 12-year-old Graeme Frost delivered the Democrats' weekly radio address with a plea to Bush to sign the bill. A contributor to the conservative Web site Free Republic noted Graeme's enrollment in the private Park School and the sale of a smaller rowhouse on the Frosts' block for $485,000 this year and questioned whether the family should be taking advantage of the state program.

That post was picked up by the National Review Online and other Web sites. By Monday, Rush Limbaugh was discussing the family's earnings and assets on the air, and the blogger Michelle Malkin was writing about her visit to Halsey Frost's East Baltimore warehouse and her drive past the family's Butchers Hill rowhouse. Liberal bloggers, meanwhile, were complaining that the Frosts were being "swift-boated."

"It's really frustrating," said Bonnie Frost, 41, who stated she is upset by the angry Internet posts, e-mails and telephone calls targeting the family. "The whole point of it for me was that this program helped my family, and I wanted it to help others. That's the message, and I can't believe the way the spotlight has been taken off of that."

"It's a distractive technique," said Halsey Frost, also 41. Speaking from their cluttered front room yesterday, the Frosts said they would continue to advocate for government-funded health care.

The Sun, which published articles about the Frosts when House Speaker Nancy Pelosi introduced Bonnie and 9-year-old Gemma at a news conference last month and again when Graeme delivered the radio address, also has drawn criticism from posters on conservative Web sites for not reporting the details of the family's financial circumstances more fully.

At issue is the proposal to expand the State Children's Health Insurance Program - also known as SCHIP - which provides coverage for 6.6 million children from families not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid. Democrats, joined by some Republicans, voted last month to expand coverage to 4 million more children at a cost of $35 billion over five years. Bush has vetoed the bill.

While the president has called for negotiations on the measure, Democrats and their allies have launched a campaign to pressure Republicans into helping to override the veto. The attempt is scheduled for next week.

The Frosts joined the debate through family acquaintance Vinnie DeMarco, the president of the Maryland Citizens' Health Initiative. DeMarco introduced them to the pro-SCHIP organization Families USA, which put them in touch with Pelosi's office.

Bonnie Frost was driving children Zeke, Graeme and Gemma in Baltimore County in December 2004 when the family SUV hit a patch of black ice and slammed into a tree. Graeme sustained a brain stem injury; Gemma suffered a cranial fracture.

The family relied on SCHIP during the more than five months that the children were hospitalized. Graeme had to learn again to walk and talk, his parents say; he remains weak on his left side and speaks with a lisp. Gemma is blind in her left eye; she has difficulty with memory, learning and speech, and sees a behavioral psychologist to help her deal with her frustration.

"Her personality has changed," Bonnie Frost said yesterday. "She's not the same girl."

Bonnie and Gemma Frost joined Pelosi at the Capitol Hill news conference before the SCHIP vote. Then Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid asked Graeme to record the radio address.

It was the news coverage of that broadcast that set off the blogo- sphere. A pseudonymous contributor to Free Republic cataloged the $20,000 cost of tuition at the Park School, the $160,000 Halsey Frost paid for his warehouse in 1999 and the $485,000 for which a neighbor sold his home in March. Links were provided to photos of the Park School's 44,000-square- foot Wyman Arts Center and the Frosts' 1992 wedding announcement in The New York Times.

Soon strangers were posting accusatory messages describing Halsey Frost as a business owner who lived on a street of half-million-dollar homes, worked out of his own commercial property and paid to send his children to private school, yet still took advantage of government-funded health care.

"Bad things happen to good people, and they cause financial problems and tough choices," Mark Steyn wrote on the National Review Online. "But, if this is the face of the 'needy' in America, then no-one is not needy."

The Redstate contributor was less civil.

"Hang 'em. Publically," the contributor wrote. "Let 'em twist in the wind and be eaten by ravens. Then maybe the bunch of socialist patsies will think twice."

The Frosts say the description of their family's circumstances now circulating is misleading. Halsey, they say, is a self-employed woodworker - he has no employees - while Bonnie works part time for a medical publishing firm. Together, they say, they earn between $45,000 and $50,000 a year.

That would make the Frosts eligible for Maryland's Children's Health Program, which is open to families that earn no more than 300 percent of the federal poverty level, or $82,830 a year for a family of six.

The Frosts declined to show The Sun their 2006 income tax returns, and the state Department of Health and Mental Hygiene would not confirm their enrollment in the program. But John G. Folkemer, the deputy secretary for health care financing, said yesterday that applicants must prove their income levels through Social Security numbers or tax returns to be accepted for coverage.

Folkemer said a family's assets are not considered in determining eligibility. Halsey Frost purchased the family home for $55,000 in 1990, according to city records, and refinanced in 2005, he says, to make improvements to accommodate the return of Graeme and Gemma from the hospital. The 1936 brick rowhouse, on a side street near Patterson Park, has an assessed value of $263,140.

Halsey Frost purchased a 1920 warehouse in East Baltimore for $160,000 in 1999, according to city records. It is assessed at $160,500. Frost says he is still paying off the mortgages on both properties.

The four Frost children depend on financial aid to attend private school, the Frosts say. In addition, they say, Gemma receives money from the city for special education made necessary by her injuries.

Halsey and Bonnie Frost say they still have no health insurance. Bonnie Frost said she priced coverage recently at $1,200 a month.

Malkin wrote that the Democrats' use of Graeme Frost to deliver the radio address was "poster child abuse"; Limbaugh told listeners that Democrats had "filled this kid's head with lies."

Pelosi fired back yesterday.

"I think that the attack on this family is just breaking new ground and stooping to new lows in terms of what happens in Washington, D.C.," she told reporters. "I think it's a sad statement about how bankrupt some of these people are in their arguments against SCHIP that they attack a 12-year-old."

The Frosts say they stand by their support of the State Children's Health Insurance Program.

"I'm just trying to understand this moment of nastiness," Bonnie Frost said. "The nastiness caught me by surprise."

matthew.brown@baltsun.com Sun reporter Lynn Anderson contributed to this article.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 15.

#1. To: All (#0)

A pseudonymous contributor to Free Republic cataloged the $20,000 cost of tuition at the Park School, the $160,000 Halsey Frost paid for his warehouse in 1999 and the $485,000 for which a neighbor sold his home in March. Links were provided to photos of the Park School's 44,000-square- foot Wyman Arts Center and the Frosts' 1992 wedding announcement in The New York Times.

Hmmm. I wonder who would have access to that kind of information.

aristeides  posted on  2007-10-10   9:24:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: aristeides (#1)

I found this cross-posted on elPee from FR. Sorry, no link provided to the source.

Did I Really Start A Firestorm in Washington? Myself and Multiple links ^ | 10- 09-07 | ICWHATUDO

Posted on 10/09/2007 9:19:16 AM PDT by icwhatudo

Hello everyone, its been an interesting few days. I had no idea my post about the family used by democrats to push for expansion of the S-CHIP program would cause such a stir. There have been many questions and comments raised about me and my simple Google research that I thought I'd deal with them all on this post if it's ok with the Mods.

My interest in the S-CHIP issue came about because of the way it's portrayed in the media. President Bush's veto was of an EXPANSION of this health insurance program to include higher income families. It would not cut the program, (in fact Bush wants to increase funding), nor would it cause the Frost family to lose their coverage under it.

The Frost family choose to allow their son to give the democrat radio response to the president's veto. They choose to put their family story, picture of their home, and income information in the papers for all to see. Now that I look into the facts of that same story I'm accused of "invading their privacy" or "attacking a 12 year old boy". Could someone from Daily Kos, Think Progress, or Democratic Underground please cut and paste the part of my article that attacked the 12 year old boy?

The Baltimore Sun article about the family mentioned that the son attended Park school. I knew this was an expensive private school so I began to wonder why someone who could send their child there would need others to pay for their health insurance. It led to my use of Google to find out if there was information that the Baltimore Sun left out of the article. All the information I found I linked to in my post.

After posting my article a number of Freepers started emailing the story out to local papers and other blogs, talk show hosts, etc. It really exploded when Mark Steyn of National Review Online posted about it. From there it spread through the blogs including Michelle Malkin and even made it on the Rush Limbaugh's show. Last night ABC news online posted about the "firestorm in Washington" it was causing. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid was accusing GOP leadership aides of "pushing falsehood" and complained that Republican staffers where passing the information out to reporters.

Left wing sites have begun to hit back, questioning my information. Many are linking to these 5 points from Thinkprogress.org that I will comment on:

"1) Graeme has a scholarship to a private school. The school costs $15K a year, but the family only pays $500 a year."

For all the claims my research was poor...where's your link? $15,000? From my link to the schools tuition page:

Tuition for 2007-2008 Lower School $19,530 Middle School $19,530 Upper School $21,080

Where did you get your information the family was paying $500 per year? Was this from the talking points memo you got from Harry Reid spokesman Jim Manley? Did he tell you how long they’ve had those scholarships? Any idea why the tenant in the commercial building they own, Mike Reilly (who has known the Frosts for 10 years) said See "Update 2:50pm"it was his understanding the children’s grandparents paid the bill?

We can debate the amount they are paying, or the amount the grandparents are contributing, or the amount that is earned through scholarships but the fact remains the family is paying to send their child to a private school while asking others to pay for their health insurance. Are you claiming otherwise?

"2) His sister Gemma attends another private school to help her with the brain injuries that occurred due to her accident. The school costs $23,000 a year, but the state pays the entire cost."

Again no link but I heard this as well. It was why I stated in my article that: "His sister Gemma, also severely injured in the accident, attended the same school PRIOR to the accident"

Its funny how the left wing echo chamber is seizing on this point to somehow show my information was bad. That somehow I was saying she was still attending the Park School. Will you concede that my statement "His sister Gemma, also severely injured in the accident, attended the same school PRIOR to the accident" is 100% true? At the time they choose to not purchase health insurance, prior to the accident, at least 2 of their kids attended Park school.

"3) They bought their “lavish house” sixteen years ago for $55,000 at a time when the neighborhood was less than safe."

Your information is incorrect (and again fails to provide a link). "They" did not buy the house 16 years ago, Mr. Frost bought the home on his own on 11/30/1990. The couple was married in 1992, and it appears his wife paid him $52,500 to be added to the deed on 09/06/2005. Interesting that on the Department of Assessments and Taxation form under "Principal Residence:" it states "NO". Do they own a second home in addition to the commercial property? Also, please cut and paste from my article where I said they lived in a "Lavish house". Large house-yes, and nice kitchen from the photo.

"4) Last year, the Frost’s made $45,000 combined. Over the past few years they have made no more than $50,000 combined.

Again no link. What is the source of this claim? Not saying their reported income was not as you state, but as Mr. Frost set up a LLC would you concede its possible that reported income could be different than actual access to financial resources? Maybe those more familiar on why people set up LLC's can tell us what creative things can be done with finances this way.

"5) The state of Maryland has found them eligible to participate in the CHIP program."

Exactly! Thanks for making my point. Even with the private school you admit they are partially paying for, even with the home that is not their primary residence, even with the LLC they set up and purchased commercial property with, even with a tenant in the building they own...they still qualify! So why then do we need to expand the program to families with even higher incomes than the Frosts?

I am also a father of 4 and I live in a waterfront house. We have 2 boats and go to the beach for 2 weeks each year. All 4 of my kids go to private school. If the S-CHIP program is expanded...WE WILL QUALIFY! I'd love to use the savings from others paying for my kids health insurance to buy a new motor for my bass boat but is that what we really want from S-CHIP?

A few other points:

Some blogs, radio shows, etc have incorrectly stated that I claimed their house was bought for $485,000 or was worth $500,000 etc. My actual quote on this was:

"The current market value of their improved 3,040 SF home at 104 S Collington Ave is unknown but 113 S COLLINGTON AVE, also an end unit, sold for $485,000 this past March and it was only 2,060 SF."

I found a similar (actually smaller) home a few doors down that recently sold for $485,000. A Freeper early on in my original post linked a zillow estimate of $360,000. The taxation page assesses the home at $263,140 and we all know assessed values for taxes are lower than market price(at least in Maryland). Are there cheaper homes in the area that have not been renovated yet? Sure, but lets not miss the point here. This is not a family of renters, they own not only a 3,040 SF home but a commercial property as well. I'm not faulting them for it, I'm not trying to say they are rich, I'm trying to make people aware of what types of families are CURRENTLY covered by S-CHIP so we can honestly debate if the income ceiling should be raised.

Hmmmm, I really could use that new bass boat motor and the kids really would like a Nintendo Wii ... maybe I'll change my position.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2007-10-10   10:53:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Fred Mertz (#3)

icwhatudo seems very anxious to have people believe that he did all this on his own, and wasn't put up to it by somebody or something.

aristeides  posted on  2007-10-10   11:00:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: aristeides (#5)

icwhatudo seems very anxious to have people believe that he did all this on his own, and wasn't put up to it by somebody or something.

I think you are missing the point. Who cares who found out the facts about the Frosts' grifting scam? It's the revelations themselves that should be important to us all unless you personally like being a taxpayer dupe who is supporting phonies.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-10   11:11:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: scrapper2 (#7)

I would not like it if it turned out to be the case that taxpayers' money was used to dig up dirt on private individuals. As someone who was formerly in military signals intelligence, when we took seriously the rules against doing that sort of thing, I tend to be sensitive about such matters.

aristeides  posted on  2007-10-10   11:23:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: aristeides (#10) (Edited)

I would not like it if it turned out to be the case that taxpayers' money was used to dig up dirt on private individuals. As someone who was formerly in military signals intelligence, when we took seriously the rules against doing that sort of thing, I tend to be sensitive about such matters.

Nice try, ari, but no cigar.

If you were truly "sensitive" about taxpayers money being used for fraudulent reasons, then you'd be more upset about the Frosts' grifting "the system" than about how the revelations about their faux background came to light.

I'd suggest to you that the Frosts wasted a heck of alot more of our taxpayer money than the guy/gal who may have spent 5 seconds time looking into their financial background.

***The tracking of the Frosts' financial where-with-all should have been done at the time they applied for the SCHIP benefits. Obviously it wasn't so if it has been done now, big deal, better late than never.***

And if it weren't for all this MSM, Dem Party, and Dem supporters chest-beating and croc tears generated confusion about who's more loathsome - the messenger or the message - I would like a criminal investigation done on the Frosts and if necessary have them pay back some of the $ they gamed into the SCHIP "pot" so truly poor and indigent families are not robbed of SCHIP funds in the future.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-10   12:03:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: scrapper2 (#12) (Edited)

I've already told you I was in military signals intelligence. I get upset when I see that system misused for partisan purposes, especially in a way that has police-state overtones.

Whereas you seem not to mind that sort of thing.

You constantly accuse me of being a partisan Democrat. Could that be a bit of projection? You certainly seem to support campaigns supported by the administration and its camp followers. Even this public relations debacle attacking the Frosts.

aristeides  posted on  2007-10-10   12:09:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: aristeides (#13) (Edited)

I've already told you I was in military signals intelligence. I get upset when I see that system misused for partisan purposes, especially in a way that has police-state overtones.

Whereas you seem not to mind that sort of thing.

You constantly accuse me of being a partisan Democrat. Could that be a bit of projection? You certainly seem to support campaigns supported by the administration and its camp followers. Even this public relations debacle attacking the Frosts.

a. Fyi, I'm a Ron Paul supporter because he is a traditional conservative and constitutionalist. I've made no secret that I am a traditional conservative constitutionalist myself. Ron Paul supports small government and self- sufficiency of the individual. I like that! He is opposed to government getting into our lives unnecessarily whether it be covert police state surveillence or nanny statist entitlements that take away individual responsibility. I like that!

Why you otoh pretend to support Ron Paul is a mystery to me especially in light of your continued drum beat of shock and anger that grifters like the Frosts have been revealed to be the middle class gamers of the system that they are. Your support of their weasling their way to use and abuse of tax supported entitlements, their reprehensible abuse of their child to promote a Dem Party nanny state agenda has me concluding that you are a Dem bleeding heart liberal statist regardless of what you like to call yourself on this board.

Did you know that there is no "means test" in Maryland to qualify for SCHIP aid? If you are suggesting that the freaper who "outed" them was a government employee, how is that wrong? What is wrong is that this "means test" was not done in Maryland in the first place. I'm pissed to learn that some states have been less than fiscally responsible in the way they have doled out federal tax dollars for the SCHIP programs. But you're not - hey que sera sera, let the rich pay. But I got news for you - it's middle class tax payers like me and you who are being gouged by the Frosts. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Did you know that in order to get financing for commercial property like what Mr. and Mrs. Frost own [in addition to their lovely brick fronted middle class house] that they would have had the means to put together a significant amount of CASH as their down payment? I would suggest to you that there are many many middle class families who pay their own freight and whose tax dollars have been applied to the SCHIP pot who DO NOT HAVE THE EQUITY that the Frosts have.

Perhaps you need to read this blurb from a WSJ article that was written about the "folly" of the existing SCHIP plan, never mind what the expanded plan would do.

"...Senate Democratic leaders recently unveiled plans to dramatically expand taxpayer-funded health insurance through the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) -- even as 14 states are running out of money to fund coverage in the program now, says Grace-Marie Turner, president of the Galen Institute.

One reason SCHIP is in trouble is because it has allowed states to provide taxpayer-subsidized health care for adults and middle-income families, even when poor children go without coverage. For instance:

In 2005, 87 percent of Minnesota's SCHIP enrollees were adults, as were 66 percent of those enrolled in Wisconsin's program.

In Arizona -- which has one of the highest rates of uninsured children in the nation -- 56 percent of those enrolled in SCHIP were adults.

In addition, SCHIP funds are often used to insure children who are not in low- income families, says Turner:

In New Jersey, for example, Schip covers children whose parents earn up to three-and-a-half times the poverty line -- an amount that exceeds $72,000 a year.

Sen. Hillary Clinton and Rep. John Dingell recently announced their own bill that would subsidize coverage for kids in families earning up to four times the poverty level -- or nearly $83,000 for a family of four.

So what should be done? First, adults should not be eligible, says Turner. In addition, Schip should focus on America's poorest families; the program should assist only families who earn up to twice the poverty line, as the law originally intended.

Finally, it must be easier for states to utilize SCHIP as a premium-support program. It is relatively inexpensive to add children to family policies, but by making the process so bureaucratic, employer-provided plans are underutilized and families are split into private and public coverage plans.

Source: Grace-Marie Turner, "Health Insurance Folly," Wall Street Journal, March 17, 2007.

b. As I said earlier, if you want to be the taxpayer dupe who supports the grifting scam of the Frosts by getting huffy puffy about how the revelations were done - be my guest. Just don't sign me up for your hear no evil, see no evil "taxpayer dupe" SCHIP scheme.

The fact finding should have been done 4 years ago when the Frosts applied for SCHIP benefits but better late than never. And frankly Mr and Mrs Frost were negligent in their care of their family members. They did not purchase a high deductible catastrophic health insurance plan nor does it appear that they had proper auto insurance with a health insurance rider. These are basic things that adults chose to do when they head a family with child dependents.

In many ways, that the Dem Party picked the Frost Family to promote an expansion of an already flawed SCHIP plan was ironic but perfect just desserts to torpedo the Dems' expanded SCHIP proposal. I love it!

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-10   13:12:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: All Ron Paul Supporters (#14) (Edited)

I'm pinging this post to All - in case you did not realize this ...Ron Paul voted "no" to House Bill 976 - he gave the thumbs down to re-authorize and expand the SCHIP program which I agree with 100%.

www.ron-paul.for-presiden...-house-vote-vote-906-h-r- 976.html

Also read the information regarding the Frosts and how states have abused their fiscal responsibilites regarding the intent of how SCHIP funds were to be doled out per post #14.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-10   13:31:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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