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Title: America’s broken health insurance system (MALKIN ON MD HEALTH INSURANCE IN 2004)
Source: michellemalkin.com
URL Source: http://michellemalkin.com/2004/08/2 ... roken-health-insurance-system/
Published: Aug 27, 2004
Author: Michelle Malkin
Post Date: 2007-10-10 14:55:18 by aristeides
Keywords: None
Views: 944
Comments: 33

America’s broken health insurance system

By Michelle Malkin • August 27, 2004 07:29 AM

Paul Krugman has a column in today’s New York Times decrying America’s health care system. He supports–surprise!–a single payer approach.

I have commented before on the problems with central planning in health care. I certainly am not convinced that a government-run system is the answer, but I do agree with Krugman that there are serious problems with our health insurance system, particularly in the market for individually-purchased (non-group) coverage.

After my husband quit his job earlier this year (to become a full-time stay-at-home dad), we had a choice. We could either buy health insurance from his former employer through a program called COBRA at a cost of more than $1,000 per month(!) or we could go it alone in Maryland’s individual market. Given our financial circumstances, that “choice” wasn’t much of a choice at all. We had to go on our own.

We discovered that the most generous plans in Maryland’s individual market cost $700 per month yet provide no more than $1,500 per year of prescription drug coverage–a drop in the bucket if someone in our family were to be diagnosed with a serious illness.

With health insurance choices like that, no wonder so many people opt to go uninsured.

In the end, we decided to purchase a very high-deductible plan (sold by Golden Rule Insurance Co.) coupled with a tax-sheltered Medical Savings Account (MSA). We couldn’t qualify for the preferred rate because Golden Rule says I am underweight. Hmph! In any case, while Krugman and most Democrats don’t seem to like MSAs, in our case we were glad they were an option.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

#1. To: aristeides (#0)

We could either buy health insurance from his former employer through a program called COBRA at a cost of more than $1,000 per month(!) or we could go it alone in Maryland’s individual market.

How many in her family?

Great find Ari!

Fred Mertz  posted on  2007-10-10   15:05:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The Malkins meet the reality of medical insurance.

In the mid-90s I went through a similar experience, back then COBRA payments for me (I had a very good plan for 5+ years through a major utility company) were $824 per month. My husband's preexisting health condition made private insurance out of the question. COBRA lasts 18 months.

Many people work for the govt, just for the benefits, which are far superior and less expensive than most anything currently available from today's corporations.

For example, my daughter began working for the State of California a few months ago. She pays $2.00 per month for Kaiser (HMO) for herself and her family. They are all very healthy, so that's all they need. Previously, she had been paying $500 per month for an inferior health insurance through her employer.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-10-10   15:11:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

ping to our health insurance expert!

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-10-10   15:12:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Are these people nuts?

Look at the goob's VA system if you'd like a preview of more goob health care.

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-10-10   15:13:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Look at the goob's VA system if you'd like a preview of more goob health care.

Government-administered medical care is very different from government-provided medical insurance.

The National Health Service they have in Britain is government-administered medical care. The private medical care provided through government insurance they have in France and Germany is very different.

They all cost about half as much as ours, in terms of percentage of GDP. And they all result in a higher life expectancy than in this country.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-10-10   15:18:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Over lunch at a Filipino cafe at Union Station, Malkin, who has two young children, is charming one moment and pugnacious the next. She says she loves the intellectual freedom of the blogosphere, where "you can respond, you can reveal people to be the liars and slanderers they are."

This is from a Feb 2007 WaPo article: www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2007/02/15/AR2007021502065_pf.html

So in 2004 she had at least one child as her hubby became a stay-at-home dad but no more than two.

So the quoted prices are for a family of three or four. The Frost family has six members.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2007-10-10   15:19:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

She says she loves the intellectual freedom of the blogosphere, where "you can respond, you can reveal people to be the liars and slanderers they are."

Can't we though.

angle  posted on  2007-10-10   15:22:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Amen!

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-10-10   15:25:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2007-10-10   15:50:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Malkin's support of SCHIP in some form doesn't seem to have prevented her from stalking the Frosts.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-10-10   16:04:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2007-10-10   16:13:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The National Health Service they have in Britain is government-administered medical care. The private medical care provided through government insurance they have in France and Germany is very different.

Those are not America - our idiots would screw up a wet-dream.

I trust them to do nothing correctly, properly, or honestly.

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-10-10   17:37:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Those are not America - our idiots would screw up a wet-dream.

I wonder how many dealings you've had with the private health insurers.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-10-10   17:39:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Luckily, we've had nothing but excellent results with BC/BS obtained through Mrs.L's employment with the state - before marriage, I self-insured. So I'm not the one who has any horror stories to tell.

Government meddling in anything turns quickly to disaster for those they are allegedly trying to "help."

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-10-10   17:52:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Begging for money on the Internet seems to pay well. House in the suburbs of DC, health insurance, hubby can quit working...she seems to be doing well for someone without a job.

Sorta like RimJob.

Honi soit qui mal y pense

Mekons4  posted on  2007-10-10   18:55:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Are you saying Michelle is a hypocrite? Say it ain't so.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2007-10-10   22:04:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They all cost about half as much as ours, in terms of percentage of GDP. And they all result in a higher life expectancy than in this country.

As usual you talk through your hat about universal health care.

a. You might want to read this summary article about an MD who has actually worked in "the system" - Dr. David Gratzer, Cdn trained physician:

www.investors.co m/editorial/editorialcontent.asp? secid=1502&status=article&id=270338135202343

"A Canadian Doctor Describes How Socialized Medicine Doesn't Work" 07/26/07

...And now even Canadian governments are looking to the private sector to shrink the waiting lists. In British Columbia, private clinics perform roughly 80% of government-funded diagnostic testing.

This privatizing trend is reaching Europe, too. Britain's Labour Party — which originally created the National Health Service — now openly favors privatization. Sweden's government, after the completion of the latest round of privatizations, will be contracting out some 80% of Stockholm's primary care and 40% of its total health services.

Since the fall of communism, Slovakia has looked to liberalize its state-run system, introducing co-payments and privatizations. And modest market reforms have begun in Germany.

Yet even as Stockholm and Saskatoon are percolating with the ideas of Adam Smith, a growing number of prominent Americans are arguing that socialized health care still provides better results for less money...

...One often-heard argument, voiced by the New York Times' Paul Krugman and others, is that America lags behind other countries in crude health outcomes. But such outcomes reflect a mosaic of factors, such as diet, lifestyle, drug use and cultural values. It pains me as a doctor to say this, but health care is just one factor in health.

Americans live 75.3 years on average, fewer than Canadians (77.3) or the French (76.6) or the citizens of any Western European nation save Portugal. Health care influences life expectancy, of course. But a life can end because of a murder, a fall or a car accident. Such factors aren't academic — homicide rates in the U.S. are much higher than in other countries.

In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don't die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country.

And if we measure a health care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels. Five-year cancer survival rates bear this out. For leukemia, the American survival rate is almost 50%; the European rate is just 35%. Esophageal carcinoma: 12% in the U.S., 6% in Europe. The survival rate for prostate cancer is 81.2% here, yet 61.7% in France and down to 44.3% in England — a striking variation.

Like many critics of American health care, though, Krugman argues that the costs are just too high: health care spending in Canada and Britain, he notes, is a small fraction of what Americans pay. Again, the picture isn't quite as clear as he suggests. Because the U.S. is so much wealthier than other countries, it isn't unreasonable for it to spend more on health care. Take America's high spending on research and development. M.D. Anderson in Texas, a prominent cancer center, spends more on research than Canada does.

That said, American health care is expensive. And Americans aren't always getting a good deal. In the coming years, with health expenses spiraling up, it will be easy for some to give in to the temptation of socialized medicine. In Washington, there are plenty of old pieces of legislation that like-minded politicians could take off the shelf, dust off and promote: expanding Medicare to Americans 55 and older, say, or covering all children in Medicaid.

But such initiatives would push the U.S. further down the path to a government- run system and make things much, much worse. True, government bureaucrats would be able to cut costs — but only by shrinking access to health care, as in Canada, and engendering a Canadian-style nightmare of overflowing emergency rooms and yearlong waits for treatment..."

b. regarding myths about international life expectancy studies...

www.freemarketcure.com /singlepayermyths.php

"The 10 Myths of Single-Payer Health Care"

Myth No. 6: Single-payer systems achieve better health outcomes.

Most single-payer advocates point to life expectancy and infant mortality as evidence that single-payer systems produce better health outcomes than the U.S. And, indeed, the U.S. has lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality than many nations with a single-payer system.

The problem is that life expectancy and infant mortality tell us very little about the quality of a health care system. Life expectancy is determined by a host of factors over which a health care system has little control, such as genetics, crime rate, gross domestic product per capita, diet, sanitation, and literacy rate.

The primary reason is that the U.S. has lower life expectancy is that we are ethnically a far more diverse nation than most other industrialized nations. Factors associated with different ethnic backgrounds -- culture, diet, etc. -- can have a substantial impact on life expectancy.

A good deal of the lower life expectancy rate in the U.S. is accounted for by the difference in life expectancy of African-Americans versus other populations in the United States. Life expectancy for African-Americans is about 72.3 years, while for whites it is about 77.7 years. What accounts for the difference? Numerous scholars have investigated this question. The most prevalent explanations are differences in income and personal risk factors. For example, one study found that about one-third of the difference between white and African-American life expectancies in the United States was accounted for by income; another third was accounted for by personal risk factors such as obesity, blood pressure, alcohol intake, diabetes, cholesterol concentration, and smoking and the final third was due to unexplained factors.

Infant mortality is also impacted by many of the same factors that affect life expectancy -- genetics, GDP per capita, diet, etc. -- all of which are factors beyond the control of a health care system. Another factor that makes U.S. infant mortality rates higher than other nations is that we have far more pregnant women living alone; in other nations pregnant women are more likely to be either be married or living with a partner. Pregnant women in such households are more likely to receive prenatal care than pregnant women living on their own.

Perhaps the biggest drawback of infant mortality is that it is measured too inconsistently across nations to be a useful measure. Under United Nations' guidelines, countries are supposed to count any infant showing any sign of life as a "live birth." While the United States follows that guideline, many other nations do not. For example, Switzerland does not count any infant born measuring less than 12 inches, while France and Belgium do not count any infant born prior to 26 weeks. In short, many other nations exclude many high-risk infants from their infant mortality statistics, making their infant mortality numbers look better than they really are.

In areas where a health care system does have an impact, such as treating disease, the U.S. outperforms single-payer systems. For example, the U.S. has a higher five-year survival rate for victims of heart attacks than Canada, due to the fact that we do more bypass surgeries and angioplasties in the U.S. Hospitals in the U.S. also commit fewer errors than hospitals in countries with single-payer systems like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom.

c. Regarding high costs of medicine in the USA as opposed to other Western nations, I'd suggest that tort reform in the USA would bring down the costs substantially. Oddly enough, whenever I hear "folks" talking about implementing the single payer "good stuff" insurance program that "other countries" have, these same folks never talk about the fact that "other countries" don't allow the ambulence chasing lawyers to run their insurance programs into the ground with frivolous malicious lawsuits.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-11   0:13:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Malkin's support of SCHIP in some form doesn't seem to have prevented her from stalking the Frosts.

Oh puhleaze...stop with the drama queen stuff, ari.

Personally I don't care for many of Malkin's positions as they relate to the Iraq War or to profiling Muslims but in this case with regards to the Frosts' and other adults scamming "the system" of SCHIP and the fiscally irresponsible behavior of some states - like Maryland that does not conduct a means test before it doles out taxpayer money to grifters - she is right on.

As for "stalking the Frosts" in your words, the Frosts used their child to promote a political agenda - the Frosts were not only negligent parents for not providing proper health care and auto insurance to protect their dependents, but the Frosts allowed their child to be used as a pawn of political operators which robbed their son of privacy.

Malkin is simply EXPOSING ( not stalking) the fraudulent and negligent parents that the Frosts are.

Blame the Frost adults not the messenger who delivers the message.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-11   0:27:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Are you saying Michelle is a hypocrite? Say it ain't so.

What about saying that the Frost Family parents are hypocrites - scamming the system of SCHIP and pretending that they are poor, which they are not or ever have been. They helped themselves to $ from a taxpayer supported fund that was designed to help children from impoverished households. A couple, like the Frosts, who own a greatly appreciated private residence as well as a commercial property that brings in rental revenues is not an impoverished household. They took risks - they had other priorities building equity and all - and when they lost the roll of the die, they tapped into a fund that hard working middle class "play it by the rules" taxpayers like you and me funded. Perhaps some of you need to adjust your glasses before you decide to weigh in on what is viewed as hypocritical behavior.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-11   0:34:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You approve of Malkin's behavior towards the Frosts?

Did you read John Cole's piece?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-10-11   7:06:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2007-10-11   9:59:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Actually, I read an article recently debunking this stuff. Apparently the Frosts aren't as wealthy as the conservative nabobs would have us believe, and they legitimately qualify for SCHIP.

As for the "scamming," there will always be scammers of any kind of government program. It's a cost of doing business. At least folks scamming SCHIP or SSI or whatever aren't turning around and selling guns and bombs in every turd world hellhole on the planet.

The article you read did not tell the full truth.

First off under Maryland's SCHIP dispersal program assets like property and stocks and bonds are not considered as additional fungable sources of money. The Frosts' assets are considerable - highly appreciated residential property as well as rental commercial property. I suspect that the Frosts have far more assets than people on this board who are their stalwart defenders and whose taxes support the Frosts' entitlements. What a laugh.

Secondly under Maryland's SCHIP dispersal program, there is no means test. Maryland glibbly doles out SCHIP $ to whomever asks them. If the Frosts had resided in any other state that had a means test in place, the Frosts would not pass such a test.

Thirdly the intent of the SCHIP bill passed by Congress in 1997 was that the SCHIP program was to help children under age 12 who lived in poverty to get free medical care. Graeme Frost is not impoverished. His parents have assets up the wazoo. The money that was given to Graeme means there was less money in Maryland's SCHIP pot for truly impoverished children and in Baltimore there are many as we well know. The Frosts got the money from Maryland's SCHIP fund not because they deserved it but rather because Maryland is lax in its SCHIP rules - hey it's not Maryland gubment officials' wallets that are being robbed by scammers its ours.

Therefore, that the Frosts qualified under Maryland's "no qualification required" SCHIP program is technically correct but nonetheless what the Frosts did is morally wrong and irresponsible. As it turns out, the Frosts are the picture perfect poster family for the Dem Party's SCHIP program.

Put yourself into a position of a parent who owns valuable residential property as well as a commercial rental property as well as other assets, would you ever think of not buying health insurance for your family? No you wouldn't. Any responsible parent realizes that one needs to protect one's dependents. Mr. Frost could have taken out a health insurance plan with a high deductible and supplemented that plan with an Health Savings Account - he had lots of cash tied up in his commercial property - what folks here don't realize is that when you buy a commercial property you need to put down a higher sum of money as a down payment than a down payment for residential property - he could have taken out a second mortgage on his commercial property - it doesn't take that much cash to start a HSA account and besides an HSA is income tax deductible. Mr. Frost did nothing. He had other priorities, getting his 2 kids to and from those nifty private school excursions.

As I pointed out before the thing about the Frosts cashing in on private school scholarships (private schools set aside $ for a handful of scholarships to reach out to the less fortunate in their communities "to give back" to children like visible minorities or the disabled or who are challenged in other ways) speaks loudly about Mr. and Mrs. Frosts' arrogance and their sense of entitlement. They not only take the private school's charity for one kid but rather two kids - merrily cutting in front of the line to appropriate limited scholarships designated for others - no problem, no worries. That's the Frosts M.O.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-11   13:24:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

...speaks loudly about Mr. and Mrs. Frosts' arrogance and their sense of entitlement.

Honestly, the nerve of those uppity white folks is amazin'.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2007-10-11   13:30:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2007-10-11   13:32:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You approve of Malkin's behavior towards the Frosts?

What's Malkin's "behavior" to the Frosts? Is she following them around? Is she camped on their front lawn? Malkin is a journalist. Malkin is paid to investigate stories. That's her job. I don't pay Malkin's salary. Therefore I have no right to a judge how she does her job.

Do you approve of the Frosts' behavior? Do you approve of their allowing their son to be used as a pawn by the Dem Party? Do you approve of the Frosts consciously stripping away their child's privacy and setting him up for public ridicule? Do you approve of the Frosts, who have considerable assets, not buying a health insurance policy with a high deductible, supplemented by an HSA account? Do you approve of the Frosts who have considerable assets dipping into a taxpayer supported SCHIP fund whose intent by Congress in approving this fund in 1997 was to give free medical care to impoverished children?

If the Frosts believe they are unfairly maligned by journalists like Malkin, then the fastest and easiest way for the Frosts to clear their name is to volunteer to have themselves audited to demonstrate they really are impoverished.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-11   13:38:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I was refering to this. Now, who do you wanna believe? The same old folks who've lied to us again and again?

Your privilege.

The same old folks who lied to us time and time again are MSM. This is a Time magazine article you referred me to. Come on. Is Time any more truthful than politicians? In fact on certain issues like foreign wars to protect Israel when it suits both parties, they work in concert with one another.

I use common sense to judge what the Frosts did and did not do.

Obviously you did not read my post - you want to BELIEVE in the Frosts. That's your perogative.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-11   13:43:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2007-10-11   13:52:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

What's Malkin's "behavior" to the Frosts?

John Cole says it much better than I ever could:

A Comparison

By: John Cole October 10, 2007 at 3:40 pm

From the comments, to address the screeching about Citizen Journalism:

Option 1: Real Journalism

1. Call the Frosts to verify the details about them.

2. Call the agency that handles S-CHIP in Baltimore to find out their situation.

3. Talk to anyone else that can independently verify the Frost’s situation (i.e. doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.).

4. Publish the facts.

Option 2: Wingnutosphere Journalism

1. Show up at the Frost’s house unannounced and spy on them.

2. Guess as to what the Frost’s situation is based on their car, the value of their house and some Google searches.

3. Talk to neighbors and co-workers to get the inside dirt on the Frost’s (do they throw lavish parties?).

4. Publish their personal information along with your opinion of their situation and invite further scrutiny from the general public based on misinformation.

Pretty much.

And what does it say about the blogosphere that in the end, with all the vast resources of all the citizen journalists, it boiled down to crazy people peering at pictures of the Frost’s kitchen? And even at that absurd level, they were wrong about the Frost’s counters.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-10-11   13:59:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I know you do. That's why I was so surprised and dismayed to see you jumping on the bandwagon of the folks going after them.

I'm not jumping on anyone's band wagon. I'm not attacking the Frosts. I'm pointing out that they are less than impoverished and less than responsible and less than admirable. They consciously chose to not insure their family though they had the means. They could have bought a high deductible insurance plan to cover themselves for the very thing that happened to them - a catastrophic accident and either paid out of pocket for the medical office visits that would add up to be less than their deductible or they could have established an HSA account for those under the deductible expenses. But they deliberately chose not to. The $1200 per month premium is bunk per Mrs. Frost - that's if you have a low decuctible PPO plan with all the bells and whistles. You and I know I'm right on everything I've said. And what's even more dishonest on the part of Ma and Pa Frost is that they dipped into a taxpayer pot of $ and abused a plan whose intent it was to help impoverished families. You and I know that if the Frosts lived in any state that had a means test they would have failed. Furthermore what's most reprehensible about the Frosts in my opinion is that they consciously exposed their child to public ridicule by having him be used as a pawn of the Dem Party to promote a party platform. Would you do that with your kid? No, no decent parent would do that with a child - loving parents are supposed to protect their children not offer them up as commodities to be used by others.

Look I haven't even read what freapers or their ilk are saying. Frankly I could care less. I just use common sense and am seeing that the Frosts are no angels and the ridicule they are getting is what they brought on themselves. The Frosts had an accident and that's sad. But accidents happen to lots of people and those other people prepare themselves and handle that type of situation in much more responsible ways than the Frosts. The Frosts don't have a lock on sympathy by any means. As soon as they chose to step out from the shadows and become a cause célèbre for the Dem Party, they made themselves open game.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-11   14:26:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

a. When did all these investigations start on the Frosts? Did they happen before or after the Frosts consciously thrust themselves into the public eye by chosing to have their son used as a pawn by the Dem Party? Folks who move their lives into the public theatre risk becoming scrutinized by the public. That's what happens when you take risks - sh*t can happen - by hey, we already know that the Frosts are veteran risk takers, so this is nothing new for them is it?

b. Regarding the cost of concrete counters vs the cost of granite, both choices are very expensive. I know because I priced all the options when I was about to remodel my kitchen. I chose neither concrete nor granite because both were out of my price range. I guess I need to be "impovershed" like the Frosts to be able to have afforded concrete.

www.keidel.com/design/select/tops-matl-concrete.htm

"...Concrete countertops are a custom crafted material for high end use. Costs for a standard 1.5" thick countertop, including installation can range anywhere from $75 - $200 per square foot, depending on the area of the country.

Irregular or curbed shapes, 2" thick concrete, integral drain boards, custom edges, and backsplashes will increase the cost..."

c. You seem to be stuck on maligning the messengers instead of recognizing that the message about the Frosts behavior is true and shows a couple who were irresponsible parents and who scammed a system that was meant to help truly impoverished children. If the Frosts had lived in any state that had a means test for deiding who gets SCHIP funds, the Frosts would have failed.

Freapers and Malkin as distasteful as they might be personally DID NOT scam SCHIP funds by taking advantage of Maryland's lax regulations nor did the freapers and Malkin consciously expose their child to public ridicule. The Frosts did all of these things and more and by their own actions the Frosts demonstarted that they are morally and fiscally irresponsible and not worthy of any sympathy for the public derision they brought on themselves and their family members.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-11   14:48:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

from USAToday

Bloggers said the house was worth more than $400,000. It turns out it was bought for $55,000 in 1991 in a Baltimore neighborhood where "there were drug dealers and prostitutes on our street," Bonnie Frost said. Halsey Frost, a woodworker, did most of the renovations, which are "still not done," Bonnie said.

Bloggers said Graeme and Gemma go to private Park School, where tuition costs about $20,000. Graeme gets a scholarship, while Gemma's brain injuries were so severe that the city pays to educate her at a school for children with disabilities, the couple say.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!

robin  posted on  2007-10-11   14:53:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

How many people who read Malkin et all every day, are reading this story and for once, finally, feeling the smack in the face, the venom of their own peeps being used against them? That’s gotta hurt. (even more than it hurts my pansy progressive ass to read this swill). There is just nothing in this story for your average, middle-america repub to cling to. The details, no matter how you shape em, all describe to a tee so many families out there in red america. When I think of a standard 30%er, I think of a lower middle class, white, hardworking parent trying to get by.

I always thought that was why they were so pissed off, actually, so afraid of everything (brown people, terrorist, The Gays)... because they are struggling and straining, most of them, to keep their own families’ head above water and they’re scared. So, now, these blogger lunatics are punching them in the face too? Their own people are punching them in the face!

I am so confused by it all, I can barely articulate my confusion. What the hell are these freaks thinking calling attention to this, making it a spectacle and attacking this family??? This one alienates their very own people! Ultimately it further proves the insularity of the righty blogosphere and how it’s only a big circle jerk, but still, I sense it’s some sort of jumping the shark. When you’ve turned right on your own readers, so unabiguously, so harshly, what happens next?

I found this comment on Daily Kos, but it is allegedly taken from John Cole's site.

By the way, the whole Daily Kos thread, The Frosts Demonstrate Why We Need Single-Payer Health, is worth a read.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-10-11   14:55:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They don't care about the facts. And they certainly don't care about the issue, or at least don't think they have a persuasive case to make about it. Otherwise, they would do that, instead of attacking the Frosts.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-10-11   14:56:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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