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Title: Christ Was Not A Jew
Source:
israelect
URL Source: http://www.israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/ChristNotAJew.htm
Published: Jun 3, 2005
Author: WillieMartin
Post Date: 2005-06-03 09:45:20 by Itisa1mosttoolate
Keywords: Christ
Views: 2268
Comments: 183
Christ Was Not A Jew Jesus Christ Was Not A Jew: Does this shock you? We certainly hope it does. For it is time that Christians woke up to the fact that they have been brainwashed by the Jews with the "big lie technique" to the falsehood that Christ was a Jew. We ask you now, to set aside all prejudice in the matter and as God states in the Bible, "Come let us reason together." (Isaiah 1:18) There are two ways that a person can be a Jew; racially (which means a cross between the descendants of Esau and True Israelites 49; There is Edom [Esau is called Edom in Genesis 36:8. And Edom is in 'Modern Jewry' Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925 edition, Vol. 5, p. 41) or religiously. Let us now see whether Christ fits either of these categories. Ninety49;five percent of the people that we know as Jews today, are mongrels; they are a product of the amalgamation of many races. The majority of the Jews are Asiatics, of Mongolian, stock, the descendants of the tribes of Khazars of Russia who accepted Judaism in 740 A.D. They are the descendants of Cain; No racial Jew is an Israelite. That's right, we repeat, NO RACIAL JEW IS AN ISRAELITE. The Bible itself identifies the Jews as the seed of Cain thereby identfying Satan as their father. (John 8:44) Christ said to the Jews, in the 23rd chapter of Matthew, verses 3349;35: "You serpents, you generation (race) of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore behold I send you a prophet, wise men and scribes and some of them you shall kill and crucify and some of them yuo shall scourge in your synagogues and persecute them from city to city that upon you may come all the righteous blood that has ever been shed upon the earth from the blood of righteous Abel" (Note that carefully). Here Christ is saying to the Jews that they are guilty of the murder of Abel. Jesus could not have said this unless the Jews were/are the descendants of Cain. Christ goes on to say: "Unto the blood of Zacharias, son of Brachias who you slew between the temple and the alter." It's very plan! And it's in your Bible. Christ said to the Jews "You are guilty of the death of righteous Abel because you rfather Cain murdered him." It is also well for you to note here that Jesus further blames these Jews for all the deaths of righteous people from the beginning of time right down to this day. This is not a statement of man but of our Redeem, our King, our Savior. Christ never lied and spoke only the truth; every word contained in the sixty49;six books of the Bible is the Word of Almighty God. Are the Jews then God's Chosen People as some "fogbound, lying, deceiving, Judeo49;Chrisian Clergy" would have us believe? Far from it! Rather than being God's Chosen People, they are Satan's Children! Let us turn for proof of this, to the eighth chapter of John the 42nd verse. The Jews have just said to Christ, we are God's Chosen People, God is our Father. Christ did not answer the Jews the way ninety49;nine percent of our Judeo49;Christian preachers would do today. Rather, He said in the 42nd vers, "If God were your Father you would love me for I proceeded forth and came from God. Neitherdid I come of myself, but He sent Me. Why is it that you do not understand my speech. It is because yuo cannot hear my words." (Read carefully the 44th verse) where Christ said to the Jews, "Ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks oa lie, he speaks of his own for he is a liar and the father of it." The Word "Jew" A Jew is a person whose religion is Jew49;dah49;ism (Judaism). The word Jew is not found in the original texts of the Scriptures, but in many English Bibles the word is an incorrect rendering of the latin word Judaeus, the Greek word Ioudaios, and the Hebrew word Yehudi. Although not found in either the Hebrew or the Greek Scriptures, the word Jew is an English rendering most often incorrectly translated from Yahudah, that is, referring to one belonging to one of the tribes of Israel (Yisrael) called Yahudah (Judah), a Yahudite. The word Jews, the plural of the word Jew, is incorrectly translated most often from the word Yahudim (descendants of the tribe of Yahudah). The letter 'J' was not in general use until after the 17th century as used in many Bibles for the word 'Jew' to substitute for the correct word Yahudite, or Yahudim. In some English Bibles we have received the word Juda, also an error in translation because the word derives from the Greek Iudaios, which in the English would be Judaios. Judaios was none other then a Greek diety (see W.H. Roscher's lexicon of mythology). As used in the Scriptures, the word 'Jew' is sometimes translated to refer to a Yudean (Judean) a native or inhabitant (which includes many diverse races and people groups living in the region) of Yudea (Judea). As the word 'American' includes many diverse peoples living in the Country called 'America'. The word very often refers to an advocate or adherent to the religion of the Yahudim, (Judaism), or it may in a few cases refer to a literal descendant of Abraham, Issac, Jacob/Israel, one of the descent of the tribe of Yahudah (Judah). In present day generic usage, the word has no relationship to the Hebrew or the Greek translated words in the Old or New Covenant Scriptures, and is associated primarily through an adherent or advocate of Jew49;dah49;ism (Judaism) the religion, but not through ethnics or race. Basically, a Jew is anyone who decides to call himself/herself a Jew. Within Jewish Circles, there are two other official ways one can become a Jew. One can be born from a mother who calls herself a Jew, or one can 'convert' to become a Jew. (A convert is called a ger which literally means stranger). Being born a Jew is pretty simple. If one's mother is Jewish (of the Jewish religion) then he/she is considered a Jew, if one's mother is not of the Jewish religion, then neither is the child officially a Jew. (It doesn't matter what the father is). Modern Jew49;dah49;ism began about 1000 AD, and is traced to Rabbenu Gershon of Mainz, Germany the 'Father' of the Ashkenazi Jews, which constitute approximately 90% of the worlds Jews. Modern Jew49;dah49;ism is not the Scriptural worship system of the Yahudim of the Scriptures. Jews do not actively encourage conversion; to a large degree they discourage it. This is the reason Jews have never had missionaries trying to convert non49;Jews. They want the convert but the convert must be 100% committed to being a Jew. Discouraging conversion helps to filter out those 'lacking the proper degree' of commitment. If the non49;Jew still wants to become a Jew, the male is circumcised. After he is healed, he immerses himself in a mikva. A mikva is a special pool of water which is used for many religious purposes in the religion of the Jews. (It must be made according to very specific rules). A female convert only has to immerse herself. The term 'Jew', has come to be used synonymous with the term 'Israel, Israelite', however, this is error. Scriptural Israelites were never called Jews, (Yahudim), unless they were so associated by their religion. Most modern Jews are not of the tribe of Yahudah (Judah), and are not 'Israelites.' They are called Jew(s) because of their religion, Jew49;dah49;ism (Judaism). Jew, Ashkenazi (Franco49;German, Eastern and Central European Jews) After the Northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrian King Shalmaneser V, in 74549;722 BCE, (for their sin before Yahweh), the Israelites were exiled into (Assyria), 2 Kings 17:549;7. They prospered during the years in Assyria, and became a huge number of people. Outgrowing the land area they eventually migrated North through the 'Caucasus Mountains', and into central and Western Europe forming the European Nations, and are known as Caucasians 'whites.' As these Israelites migrated they influenced many people groups, no longer having an organized religious priesthood, and not having a nation or national identity, these migrating people, descendants of Jacob/Israel nevertheless passed on their bits and pieces of the ancient Scriptural worship system which was corrupted through their many years of captive living in pagan Assyria. During the 7th century A.D. these bits and pieces of the corrupt worship system became a form of Jew49;dah49;ism and was embraced by the Khazar King, his court, and the Khazar military class, who are descendants of Ashkenaz. This new religion of Jew49;dah49;ism, became the religion of the Khazars, and forms most of modern cultic European Jewry. In common parlance the present day 'Jew' is synonymous with the 'Ashkenazi Khazar Jew'. Scripture refers to the Ashkenaz in Gen. 10:3, and in I Chron. 1:6, as one of the sons of Gomer, who was a son of Japheth, son of Noah. Ashkenaz is also a brother of Togarmah (and a nephew of Magog) who the Kazars, according to King Joseph, (of the Kazars) claimed as their ancestor. The people who refer to themselves as Ashkenazi Jews are not Israelites, and they are not Semites because they do not descend from Noah's son Shem. They are Ashkenazi Khazar Jews, who descend from Noah's son Japheth. Approximately 8549;90 percent of the Jews in the world call themselves Ashkenazi Jews. Present49;day Jew49;dah49;ism, was formally formed into it's basic cultic form about 1,000 years ago, (according to the Jews), when 49; Rabbenu Gershon of Mainz, Germany, published a ban on bigamy. This marks the recorded beginning of the Ashkenazi Jews*, and Franco49;German halachic** creativity. The word 'Ashkenazi' is not Hebrew for the word Germany, although the name has become 'associated' with Germany because many Ashkenazi Jews organized in Russia, Eastern Europe and Western Mongolia. *Ashkenazi 49; (Franco49;German, Eastern and Central European Jews). **halachic 49; loose 'interpretations' of Old Testament laws Jew, Sephardim (Spanish Jews) After the Northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrian King Shalmaneser V, in 74549;722 BCE, (for their sin before Yahweh), The Israelites were exiled into (Assyria), 2 Kings 17:549;7. The King then imported people groups from his country (Assyria) to replace the exiled Israelites to maintain and control the land of the exiles. The Sepharvaim were one of these people groups, along with Cuthahites, Arrahites, 2 Kings 17:24. They mingled with each other, along with Edomites, who had migrated Northward from Idumea (field of Edom), after Israel and the Yahudim (Judeans) were exiled. Adad and Anu were ancient gods of Babylonia and were also the gods of these pagan Sepharvaim people. The Sephardim Yudeans (Judeans) are a mongrel people whose descent is directly from a mixture of this Assyrian people group and the remnant of escaped Yudeans (Judeans) along with Edomites who had migrated into the land originally occupied by the Kingdom of Israel and the kingdom of Yahudah (Judah). This made their religion also of mixed character, 2 Kings 17:2449;41. The people known as "Spanish Jews," are descended from the Canaanites, the people who colonized Carthage. Following its sack by Rome, they adopted this Sepharvaim, or Sephardim name for deceptive purposes and constitute 5% of world Jewry today. The Sephardim Jews speak Latino, a mixture of Spanish and Hebrew. The Sephardim Jews migrated West through Egypt, then North into Spain from Judea and Samaria before, during, and after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 CE,. This migration became known as the "Jewish 'Sephardim' Diaspora". Today, these Sephardim Jews are still using their ancient adopted name Sephardim (the spelling is a transliteration into English and not of significance). They settled in Spain, Portugal, the Eastern Mediterranean, Italy, the Balkans, Salonica and Macedonia, eventually emigrating into France and England, and Western Europe. The Sepharviam Yudeans (Judeans) were known as Samaritans during the time of Messiah, because they were living in Samaria, which was the area from which Israel was removed by the Assyrian King Shalmaneser V. The twelve apostles during the time if Messiah, were instructed not to enter the cities of the Samaritans, Matt. 10:5. Although the True Israelites of tribal descent, living in Samaria did received the witness of Yahshua and the message of redemption from the apostles, Acts, 1:8. Some of the mixed Samaritans also became proselytes to the Christian faith, Acts 8:449;25. The Sephardim Jews, (or Sepharviam Jews) are not of Israelite blood; they are not of the tribe of Yahudah although they were called Yudeans, 'Judeans', as an inhabitant, i.e. person living in the land originally occupied by the tribe of Yahudah of Israel). Their descent is mixed from Edom/Esau Canaanite stock. The Sephardim Jews, like the Ashkenazi Khazar Jews are not a Semitic people. The word Sephardim is not a Hebrew word for Spain, although the name has become 'associated' with Spain because many Sephardim Jews organized in Spain. Jew49;dah49;ism, (modern 'Judaism') Jew49;dah49;ism, is a cultic (ritual49;istic) religion which originated approximately 1000 CE, and is traced to Rabbenu Gershon of Mainz Germany through the publishing of his 'halachic creativity' (interpretation of Old Covenant laws), he thereby established the beginning of the modern cultic religion of Jew49;dah49;ism. Today the religion is also greatly influenced by the Babylonian Talmud, an ancient Pagan ritual49;listic system of various extreme opinions, interpretations, codes, rules, and regulations. The modern cultic religion of Jew49;dah49;ism has nothing in common with the Scriptural Cultic system of worship which was completely destroyed by Messiah as a religious system in 70 CE at the destruction of Yerushalayim (Jerusalem), Herod's Temple, and through the establishment of the New Covenant through Yahshua Messiah. Christianity, as a religious system of Faith, replaced the ancient system of Cultic (ritual49;istic) sacrificial worship. Jewish A term incorrectly applied to reflect anything pertaining to a Yahudite, a descendant of the tribe of Yahudah. In common use, the term 'Jewish' is now applied to things pertaining to the Jews. Scriptural accuracy has no bearing on the use of the modern term 'Jewish'.See also the word 'Israel'
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#1. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#0)
This is a good example of really bad writing as the author can't seem to stick to a point and develop it. It is also an example of a bad progaganda. Jesus was a Jew as were his parents. The author doesn't want to accept this PROVABLE fact.
Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:23-38 contains the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Matthew recorded Joseph's lineage. Luke recorded the family tree of Mary. Wikipedia may be a little more accurate.
What is this JEWS thing. You sound like a Nazi. -- Mekons4 posted on 2005-06-02 23:41:48 ET
The genealogy of Jesus through his legal father Joseph is given by two passages from Gospels, Matthew 1:2-16 and Luke 3:23-38. Both of them trace his line to King David and from there on to Abraham and Adam. These lists are identical between Abraham and David, but they differ radically between David and Joseph. Jesuss' father (legal) was not Joseph. It was God working a miracle.
He sure was! Consider: 1) He lived with his parents until he was 30. 2) He went into his father's business. 3) He thought his mother was a virgin. 3) She thought he was God. Slam dunk.
Thomas Jefferson explains Blue America: This guy has no frickin' idea what he's talking about. Reminds me of the time I was talking to a member of the Aryan Brotherhood in prison. He was a good-looking, surprising articulate and well-spoken guy. I don't remember his first name, but everybody called him Fred because his last name was Frederick. I brought up the point that Jesus was Jewish, and Fred said no, Jesus was White. How was that, I wondered. Fred looked at me strangely, and spoke as to a little child. He was White (you could hear that capital W when he spoke) because his father was White. His father? Joseph, you mean? No--the Holy Spirit. Fred was surprised that I purported to be a Christian and didn't know that Jesus was the product of the Holy Spirit raping Mary. I'm afraid I spluttered a bit. First, I decided to ask Fred how he knew the Holy Spirit was White. Again I got that "as to a little child" voice. The Holy Spirit is God, isn't he? I frowned. Well, yes...and? There you go! Fred exclaimed. Ah, I said. But if the Holy Spirit is God, I said, then how can he sin? Sin? Fred asked. Yeah, I said. Rape is a sin, right? Fred chuckled. It would have been a sin, he explained patiently, if Mary had been a White woman. But she wasn't; she was only a Jew. So then it's okay? I asked. He shook his head sadly at my benighted, feeble-minded inability to understand. What do you think? he asked. I didn't say it out loud, but what I thought was that I figured I had a pretty fair idea of why he was in prison.
NOLAJBS, did you mean to call me a Nazi too? I think the reason the two genologies differ is that one is for Mary and the other is for Joseph. Itsalmostoolate, why would you want to believe that Jesus is not a Jew and use such silly explanations to support this belief? It comes down to either choosing to believe those who make claims that Jesus wasn't a Jew or believing the Bible. I have choosen to believe the Bible as i have investigated its reliability many times on many issues and it has held up to my hard questions.
"Pure" evangelical poopy-doopy ... The Bible doesn't say Jesus was a Jew ... The Bible states that he was of the tribe of Judah ... which may or may not have any bearing as to whether he was a Jew or not. He certainly didn't have the character of a "Jew" ... a term that didn't even exist during the time of Christ. His primary antagonists were Pharisees, which today are Rabbis promoting the Babylonian Talmud just like their ancestors. Jesus called them vipers (snakes, serpents), and hypocrits.
Agreed.. for one reveals his Davidic tenealogy through Mary.. and the other through Joseph, for as Joseph was his adoptive father and according to the Law Jesus would also receive inheritance through Joseph..
Fatidic and Zipporah are correct: (The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
Amen.. What I do not understand is why it is SO important to those who take the stand that Jesus was not jewish? Yes Jesus did rale against those who preverted the word of God and the law and worshiped the words of men rather than the the word of God.. but that does not change the facts.. it makes no sense to me ..
Where Jesus is concerned, some will take any opportunity to cast doubt or obscure truth, while for other 'believers' it seems to be part of a needless and misguided interpretation that seeks to substitute the Church for Israel, and accordingly separate Jesus from Israel, so the substitution consequently 'aligns' Jesus with the Church and not Israel (again a needless and misguided interpretation).
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
Well this is where we do disagree.. I believe that Jesus was jewish.. but I am a partial preterist..and I do not try to separate Jesus from his jewishness.. for IMO when you see scripture from the standpoint of the OT is the New concealed and the New as the OT revealed.. it's quite the opposite.. for Jesus as he said is the fulfillment of the Law.. and the OT prophesies are of His first coming.. not some future or distant event..
In such matters, charity. I did not think you did 'separate Jesus from his jewishness' My view is best (albeit not entirely) described as prewrath-premillennialist, and I see the OT prophecies of two comings, first as the suffering/servant Messiah, second as the conquering Lord. I do use (and find it scripturally consistent) a quite literal grammatical historical hermeneutic. Perhaps we can discuss this sometime. I've done some very detailed timelines (which I could post - need to update some links) of the fulfillment of Dan 9:25-26 and yet to be fulfilled Dan 9:27 showing (IMO) the preterist view has some timeline inconsistencies. Hopefully an edifying discussion, not rancorous.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
Well, if Jesus isn't Jewish, then he can't possibly be the Messiah from the line of David, and the whole foundation of Christianity (that is, followers of the Christ or Messiah) dissolves. Somebody who calls himself a Christian and says that Jesus isn't Jewish is to be patted gently on the head and pitied.
Zipporah never took the position that Jesus is not Jewish - she has argued to others He in fact is Jewish. You responded to Zipporah's post and thereafter seem to have misunderstood her position, yes?
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
I see them as one coming.. the suffering/servant Messiah AND the conquering Lord.. being that He conquered sin.. once and for all.. the wrath of God re sin taken out upon Himself.. and an 'escape' for those who will accept Him.. "Hopefully an edifying discussion, not rancorous"... Amen..
Thank you.. I do think possibly I was misunderstood.. or maybe Barak was in
agreement ? Sometimes it's hard to distinquish..:P
No, I wasn't disagreeing with Zipporah; I was reinforcing her point. Or at least I intended to be.
That is the way I took it when I first read your reply... :)
"Oh, Well that's different then. Neeever mind"
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
No. That is just my current tag line. If you click the link, you will see who said it as well as the appropriate (or inappropriate) context it was used in. ;-) You are correct. The two genologies differ, one is Mary's and the other is Joseph's.
What is this JEWS thing. You sound like a Nazi. -- Mekons4 posted on 2005-06-02 23:41:48 ET
I take offense to having my head patted and would offer this suggestion. Jesus was descended from the Davidic line, Jesus was of the House of Israel as well as the Tribe of Judah, and could still be non-Jewish. The typical assumption is that Israelites were also Jews ... this is not necessarily true. While many people appear to be awakening to the thousands of years of deception and deportation of so-called Jews, they also appear to cling to false teachings and Jewish "fables" related to the heritage of modern Jewry. It's OK for people to think and believe whatever their own investigations cause them to believe, but don't pat my head or pity me because I may not agree with the same theory as you. The fact is, the comment quoted above is a condescending barb intended to shut the mouths of those wishing to submit a differing opinion.
"Jews" is the Anglicization of the Hebrew word "Y'hudim," which means "people from the tribe of Judah." It's not some spooky, shadowy term whose etymology is only known by the Enlightened Elite. If you wish to add to it another meaning, one that is spooky and shadowy, known only to you and your buddies, and carefully designed not to fit Jesus, then that's your lookout; and I suppose it entitles you and your buddies to say to one another, "Jesus wasn't Jewish, heh heh." But most people understand "Jewish" in its true sense--that is, "descended from Y'hudah ben-Avraham," and when you tell them, "Jesus wasn't Jewish," then you're being dishonest. There is, in Judaism, great rabbinic controversy over the question, "Who is a Jew?" (There is great rabbinic controversy over everything.) But such controversy is far too esoteric for somebody like you to get a handle on without learning a lot more than you know now. There is no rabbinic controversy over whether or not Jesus was Jewish. It wouldn't hurt you to learn a little Hebrew. It's not that hard (Hebrew is a very small language, about as much smaller than English as English is smaller than Greek), and it wouldn't take much of it to keep you from making an ass of yourself in public. That's exactly what it is--except for the word "opinion." The question of whether or not "Jews" is the English form of "Y'hudim" is about as open to opinion as the question of whether or not blue light has a shorter wavelength than red light. Sure, you can hold a contrary opinion if you like; you will simply be wrong and consequently irrelevant. Irrelevance must be a heavy burden to bear. You poor dear. [pat pat]
To believe that the word Jew is relevant one must ignore the fact that only a small portion Judah/Benjamin returned to Jerusalem after the Babylonian Captivity. Most of the small portion (less than 50,000) were inter-racially mixed with Babylonians. This means that MANY of the Tribe of Judah/Benjamin did not return to Jerusalem, leaving wide open the opportunity for many of them to have escaped the inter-breeding and the vile Talmudic Teachings.
There is something about this part that does not make sense to me, as if it's looking at it all from a selfish (?) angle, though I'm certainly no expert on this topic. But it just doesn't sit right somehow, like "let's have this guy take all the blame so we can go around commiting bad acts".
And I'm just trying to figure it all out!
Well that is not exactly how it
works.. God cannot look upon sin..and we all are under the law of sin and
death.. unless we have paid the 'price' which WE on our own.. not by deeds or
sacrifice.. we can never pay.. The bible tells us that 'without the shedding of
blood there is no remission of sin'.. so under the Law there were animal
sacrifices.. those sacrifices did not truly pay the 'price'.. they were only
temporary.. do you remember in the OT in Exodus when the blood of a lamb was put
around the doorframe and the angel of death passed those homes by? This was a
prophesy of what was to come.. Jesus is the 'lamb of God'.. it prophesized that
with Jesus's sacrifice death.. spiritual death would pass over us... it foretold
of the future provision Christ would make.. In Romans it says: Rom 6:20-22
(which refers back to a passage in Jeremiah) When you were slaves to sin, you
felt no obligation to righteousness, and what did you get from this? Nothing but
experiences that now make you blush, since that sort of behavior ends in death.
Now, however, you have been set free from sin, you have been made slaves of God,
and you get a reward leading to your sanctification and ending in eternal
life... SO if we accept Christ's sacrifice for OUR sin.. which we were slaves to
before we accepted his provision.. We are set free from sin.. not free TO sin
but free from it.. we are no longer slaves to sin.. And in Rom 6:23 Sin PAYS
its servants: the wage is death. But God GIVES to those who serve him, his free
gift is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord... We have a choice to
live under sin.. which does pay us.. death.. spiritual death.. but if we accept
Jesus' sacrifice that paid our debt.. for us.. which all of us 'owe'.. we are
freed from sin and death and have the free gift of not death.. but of eternal life.
Good explanation on the purpose of sacrifice, that cleared that up a bit, as I've never gotten that one, though I still don't get why God would have wanted animal's blood shed for him. Another thing, people talk about Jesus dying for our sins, as if no one else has ever died to save others, but there have been lots of people throughout history who have died so that others could live, such as countless soldiers and assorted brave souls. That's another point that has always bothered me. Okey I'll shut up now!
True there have been people who've died for others but.. those people couldnt pay the price for sin.. only a perfect person.. one without sin would be able to do so.. and only Jesus Christ who is God Himself in human form was born without sin and died without sin.. So .. God Himself paid the debt for us all..
My rabbi explained it this way, without using any intimidating jargon. (Note: this is completely extra-biblical; if it doesn't help you, forget it.) Imagine sin as a kind of gooey, disgusting black substance that sticks to your soul and accumulates during your life. God and sin are incompatible: where God is sin cannot be, and where sin is God will not go; that's just the nature of things. Therefore, if you die with sin all over your soul, your soul cannot go to be with God: it has to go somewhere that God isn't. Spending eternity separated from the presence of God is called Hell. But if you could get somebody to clean the sin off your soul for you and take it out of the presence of God, then there'd be nothing stopping your soul from going to be with God...which of course is what we call Heaven. No other human person can help you with your sin, because they all have sin problems of their own. But Jesus, never having sinned even once, had a nice sparkling clean soul that he can scrape your sin onto, if you want. Then he can take that sin somewhere else while you go to be with God. There are some holes in this analogy, and it leaves a lot of questions to be answered, but it does clearly explain a few things lots of people get wrong about Christianity. First, Christianity has nothing to do with balancing evil works with good works. The number of good works you do has nothing to do with whether or not you get into Heaven: the only question is whether there's any sin on your soul or not. Second, God does not decide who gets into Heaven and who doesn't. Individual people decide whether they want to have clean souls or not. As a matter of fact, to get slightly Biblical for a moment, because of certain promises he's made, as long as your soul is clean, God couldn't keep you out of Heaven even if he wanted to...and if it's not, he can't let you into Heaven no matter how much he loves you. So it's really your choice, not his.
No that is a very good explanation! What I don't get is how some Christians appear to think that all they have to do is believe Jesus is the son of God and then they can do whatever they want to. It seems to me that if someone is sincere about being a Christian they would conduct themselves in a manner according to how the bible says we should behave. That's been a big stumbling block for me, it seems to me if a person loves God they should want to be good and do good. I have started reading the bible this past year and it does seem to imply that how we conduct ourselves while on this earth does matter. So I can't help but wonder about those Christians who say all you have to do is believe Jesus is the son of God and he died on the cross for your sins and then you get to go to Heaven, as if that is all there is to it.
My response to this would be that if you believe what you're supposed to believe, and you understand what you're supposed to understand, then it'd be logically inconsistent for you to be what Christians would call "unrepentantly in sin." I don't think that good works will get you into Heaven, but your works spring from what you believe. As James said, "Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by what I do."
I have started reading the bible this past year and it does seem to imply that how we conduct ourselves while on this earth does matter. So I can't help but wonder about those Christians who say all you have to do is believe Jesus is the son of God and he died on the cross for your sins and then you get to go to Heaven, as if that is all there is to it. On one hand they are right.. we cannot save ourselves.. for how would God judge? Would it be that it takes 100 good works? Or how about the person who did 99? Would he then be 'out'? For it is not by our deeds but rather by His.. But the scripture also tells us.. in James.. Faith without works is dead.. so what we do, as Christians.. is a result of our salvation it is a natural thing for the Holy Spirit comes to reside in us.. as Christians.. James wrote about works to the early Christians because they made the same error.. because they believed, rightly, that salvation isnt by works.. by what we/they do or did.. so James was 'putting them straight' .. letting them know that as Christians their works were a result of their salvation ...
Exactly what I was trying to say but you said it in far fewer words..
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here.. People decide themselves? What if a murderer said he had no remorse and thought his soul was clean? What about a sociopath?
Nothing you said was relevant concerning Jesus being a Jew! Believe what ever in the hell you want but to say that Jesus wasn't a Jew because you know of know place in the Bible where it states, "Jesus was a Jew" makes you look willfully ignorant.
There's a difference between thinking and being, wouldn't you say?
(1). It comes down to either choosing to believe those who make claims that Jesus wasn't a Jew "or believing the Bible". (2). "Pure" evangelical poopy-doopy ... The Bible doesn't say Jesus was a Jew ... The Bible states that he was of the tribe of Judah ... which may or may not have any bearing as to whether he was a Jew or not. He certainly didn't have the character of a "Jew" ... a term that didn't even exist during the time of Christ. His primary antagonists were Pharisees, which today are Rabbis promoting the Babylonian Talmud just like their ancestors. Jesus called them vipers (snakes, serpents), and hypocrits. RE: (A). I'm sure ignorance isn't willful on your part, nonetheless the shoe fits the foot in your mouth. RE: (1). I was merely refering to your ignorant remark quoted above. You're the one that concluded that the Bible "says" Jesus was a Jew, when it says nothing of the sort. RE: (2). My statement in response to your ignorance didn't include any reference to my "beliefs," ...
Christ Was Not A Jew Jesus Christ Was Not A Jew: Does this shock you? We certainly hope it does. For it is time that Christians woke up to the fact that they have been brainwashed by the Jews with the "big lie technique" to the falsehood that Christ was a Jew. We ask you now, to set aside all prejudice in the matter and as God states in the Bible, "Come let us reason together." (Isaiah 1:18) There are two ways that a person can be a Jew; racially (which means a cross between the descendants of Esau and True Israelites; There is Edom [Esau is called Edom in Genesis 36:8. And Edom is in 'Modern Jewry' Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925 edition, Vol. 5, p. 41) or religiously. Let us now see whether Christ fits either of these categories. Ninety-five percent of the people that we know as Jews today, are mongrels; they are a product of the amalgamation of many races. The majority of the Jews are Asiatics, of Mongolian, stock, the descendants of the tribes of Khazars of Russia who accepted Judaism in 740 A.D. They are the descendants of Cain; No racial Jew is an Israelite. That's right, we repeat, NO RACIAL JEW IS AN ISRAELITE. The Bible itself identifies the Jews as the seed of Cain thereby identfying Satan as their father. (John 8:44) Christ said to the Jews, in the 23rd chapter of Matthew, verses 33-35: "You serpents, you generation (race) of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore behold I send you a prophet, wise men and scribes and some of them you shall kill and crucify and some of them yuo shall scourge in your synagogues and persecute them from city to city that upon you may come all the righteous blood that has ever been shed upon the earth from the blood of righteous Abel" (Note that carefully). Here Christ is saying to the Jews that they are guilty of the murder of Abel. Jesus could not have said this unless the Jews were/are the descendants of Cain. Christ goes on to say: "Unto the blood of Zacharias, son of Brachias who you slew between the temple and the alter." It's very plan! And it's in your Bible. Christ said to the Jews "You are guilty of the death of righteous Abel because you rfather Cain murdered him." It is also well for you to note here that Jesus further blames these Jews for all the deaths of righteous people from the beginning of time right down to this day. This is not a statement of man but of our Redeem, our King, our Savior. Christ never lied and spoke only the truth; every word contained in the sixty-six books of the Bible is the Word of Almighty God. Are the Jews then God's Chosen People as some "fogbound, lying, deceiving, Judeo-Christian Clergy" would have us believe? Far from it! Rather than being God's Chosen People, they are Satan's Children! Let us turn for proof of this, to the eighth chapter of John the 42nd verse. The Jews have just said to Christ, we are God's Chosen People, God is our Father. Christ did not answer the Jews the way ninety- nine percent of our Judeo-Christian preachers would do today. Rather, He said in the 42nd verse, "If God were your Father you would love me for I proceeded forth and came from God. Neither did I come of myself, but He sent Me. Why is it that you do not understand my speech. It is because you cannot hear my words." (Read carefully the 44th verse) where Christ said to the Jews, "Ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own for he is a liar and the father of it." The Word "Jew" A Jew is a person whose religion is Jew-dah-ism (Judaism). The word Jew is not found in the original texts of the Scriptures, but in many English Bibles the word is an incorrect rendering of the latin word Judaeus, the Greek word Ioudaios, and the Hebrew word Yehudi. Although not found in either the Hebrew or the Greek Scriptures, the word Jew is an English rendering most often incorrectly translated from Yahudah, that is, referring to one belonging to one of the tribes of Israel (Yisrael) called Yahudah (Judah), a Yahudite. The word Jews, the plural of the word Jew, is incorrectly translated most often from the word Yahudim (descendants of the tribe of Yahudah). The letter 'J' was not in general use until after the 17th century as used in many Bibles for the word 'Jew' to substitute for the correct word Yahudite, or Yahudim. In some English Bibles we have received the word Juda, also an error in translation because the word derives from the Greek Iudaios, which in the English would be Judaios. Judaios was none other then a Greek diety (see W.H. Roscher's lexicon of mythology). As used in the Scriptures, the word 'Jew' is sometimes translated to refer to a Yudean (Judean) a native or inhabitant (which includes many diverse races and people groups living in the region) of Yudea (Judea). As the word 'American' includes many diverse peoples living in the Country called 'America'. The word very often refers to an advocate or adherent to the religion of the Yahudim, (Judaism), or it may in a few cases refer to a literal descendant of Abraham, Issac, Jacob/Israel, one of the descent of the tribe of Yahudah (Judah). In present day generic usage, the word has no relationship to the Hebrew or the Greek translated words in the Old or New Covenant Scriptures, and is associated primarily through an adherent or advocate of Jew-dah-ism (Judaism) the religion, but not through ethnics or race. Basically, a Jew is anyone who decides to call himself/herself a Jew. Within Jewish Circles, there are two other official ways one can become a Jew. One can be born from a mother who calls herself a Jew, or one can 'convert' to become a Jew. (A convert is called a ger which literally means stranger). Being born a Jew is pretty simple. If one's mother is Jewish (of the Jewish religion) then he/she is considered a Jew, if one's mother is not of the Jewish religion, then neither is the child officially a Jew. (It doesn't matter what the father is). Modern Jew-dah-ism began about 1000 AD, and is traced to Rabbenu Gershon of Mainz, Germany the 'Father' of the Ashkenazi Jews, which constitute approximately 90% of the worlds Jews. Modern Jew-dah-ism is not the Scriptural worship system of the Yahudim of the Scriptures. Jews do not actively encourage conversion; to a large degree they discourage it. This is the reason Jews have never had missionaries trying to convert non-Jews. They want the convert but the convert must be 100% committed to being a Jew. Discouraging conversion helps to filter out those 'lacking the proper degree' of commitment. If the non-Jew still wants to become a Jew, the male is circumcised. After he is healed, he immerses himself in a mikva. A mikva is a special pool of water which is used for many religious purposes in the religion of the Jews. (It must be made according to very specific rules). A female convert only has to immerse herself. The term 'Jew', has come to be used synonymous with the term 'Israel, Israelite', however, this is error. Scriptural Israelites were never called Jews, (Yahudim), unless they were so associated by their religion. Most modern Jews are not of the tribe of Yahudah (Judah), and are not 'Israelites.' They are called Jew(s) because of their religion, Jew49;dah49;ism (Judaism). Jew, Ashkenazi (Franco-German, Eastern and Central European Jews) After the Northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrian King Shalmaneser V, in 745-722 BCE, (for their sin before Yahweh), the Israelites were exiled into (Assyria), 2 Kings 17:5-7. They prospered during the years in Assyria, and became a huge number of people. Outgrowing the land area they eventually migrated North through the 'Caucasus Mountains', and into central and Western Europe forming the European Nations, and are known as Caucasians 'whites.' As these Israelites migrated they influenced many people groups, no longer having an organized religious priesthood, and not having a nation or national identity, these migrating people, descendants of Jacob/Israel nevertheless passed on their bits and pieces of the ancient Scriptural worship system which was corrupted through their many years of captive living in pagan Assyria. During the 7th century A.D. these bits and pieces of the corrupt worship system became a form of Jew-dah-ism and was embraced by the Khazar King, his court, and the Khazar military class, who are descendants of Ashkenaz. This new religion of Jew-dah-ism, became the religion of the Khazars, and forms most of modern cultic European Jewry. In common parlance the present day 'Jew' is synonymous with the 'Ashkenazi Khazar Jew'. Scripture refers to the Ashkenaz in Gen. 10:3, and in I Chron. 1:6, as one of the sons of Gomer, who was a son of Japheth, son of Noah. Ashkenaz is also a brother of Togarmah (and a nephew of Magog) who the Kazars, according to King Joseph, (of the Kazars) claimed as their ancestor. The people who refer to themselves as Ashkenazi Jews are not Israelites, and they are not Semites because they do not descend from Noah's son Shem. They are Ashkenazi Khazar Jews, who descend from Noah's son Japheth. Approximately 85-90 percent of the Jews in the world call themselves Ashkenazi Jews. Present-day Jew-dah-ism, was formally formed into it's basic cultic form about 1,000 years ago, (according to the Jews), when Rabbenu Gershon of Mainz, Germany, published a ban on bigamy. This marks the recorded beginning of the Ashkenazi Jews*, and Franco-German halachic** creativity. The word 'Ashkenazi' is not Hebrew for the word Germany, although the name has become 'associated' with Germany because many Ashkenazi Jews organized in Russia, Eastern Europe and Western Mongolia. *Ashkenazi - (Franco-German, Eastern and Central European Jews). **halachic - loose 'interpretations' of Old Testament laws Jew, Sephardim (Spanish Jews) After the Northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrian King Shalmaneser V, in 745-722 BCE, (for their sin before Yahweh), The Israelites were exiled into (Assyria), 2 Kings 17:549;7. The King then imported people groups from his country (Assyria) to replace the exiled Israelites to maintain and control the land of the exiles. The Sepharvaim were one of these people groups, along with Cuthahites, Arrahites, 2 Kings 17:24. They mingled with each other, along with Edomites, who had migrated Northward from Idumea (field of Edom), after Israel and the Yahudim (Judeans) were exiled. Adad and Anu were ancient gods of Babylonia and were also the gods of these pagan Sepharvaim people. The Sephardim Yudeans (Judeans) are a mongrel people whose descent is directly from a mixture of this Assyrian people group and the remnant of escaped Yudeans (Judeans) along with Edomites who had migrated into the land originally occupied by the Kingdom of Israel and the kingdom of Yahudah (Judah). This made their religion also of mixed character, 2 Kings 17:2449;41. The people known as "Spanish Jews," are descended from the Canaanites, the people who colonized Carthage. Following its sack by Rome, they adopted this Sepharvaim, or Sephardim name for deceptive purposes and constitute 5% of world Jewry today. The Sephardim Jews speak Latino, a mixture of Spanish and Hebrew. The Sephardim Jews migrated West through Egypt, then North into Spain from Judea and Samaria before, during, and after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 CE,. This migration became known as the "Jewish 'Sephardim' Diaspora". Today, these Sephardim Jews are still using their ancient adopted name Sephardim (the spelling is a transliteration into English and not of significance). They settled in Spain, Portugal, the Eastern Mediterranean, Italy, the Balkans, Salonica and Macedonia, eventually emigrating into France and England, and Western Europe. The Sepharviam Yudeans (Judeans) were known as Samaritans during the time of Messiah, because they were living in Samaria, which was the area from which Israel was removed by the Assyrian King Shalmaneser V. The twelve apostles during the time if Messiah, were instructed not to enter the cities of the Samaritans, Matt. 10:5. Although the True Israelites of tribal descent, living in Samaria did received the witness of Yahshua and the message of redemption from the apostles, Acts, 1:8. Some of the mixed Samaritans also became proselytes to the Christian faith, Acts 8:4-25. The Sephardim Jews, (or Sepharviam Jews) are not of Israelite blood; they are not of the tribe of Yahudah although they were called Yudeans, 'Judeans', as an inhabitant, i.e. person living in the land originally occupied by the tribe of Yahudah of Israel). Their descent is mixed from Edom/Esau Canaanite stock. The Sephardim Jews, like the Ashkenazi Khazar Jews are not a Semitic people. The word Sephardim is not a Hebrew word for Spain, although the name has become 'associated' with Spain because many Sephardim Jews organized in Spain. Jew49;dah49;ism, (modern 'Judaism') Jew-dah-ism, is a cultic (ritual-istic) religion which originated approximately 1000 CE, and is traced to Rabbenu Gershon of Mainz Germany through the publishing of his 'halachic creativity' (interpretation of Old Covenant laws), he thereby established the beginning of the modern cultic religion of Jew-dah-ism. Today the religion is also greatly influenced by the Babylonian Talmud, an ancient Pagan ritual49;listic system of various extreme opinions, interpretations, codes, rules, and regulations. The modern cultic religion of Jew-dah-ism has nothing in common with the Scriptural Cultic system of worship which was completely destroyed by Messiah as a religious system in 70 CE at the destruction of Yerushalayim (Jerusalem), Herod's Temple, and through the establishment of the New Covenant through Yahshua Messiah. Christianity, as a religious system of Faith, replaced the ancient system of Cultic (ritual-istic) sacrificial worship. Jewish A term incorrectly applied to reflect anything pertaining to a Yahudite, a descendant of the tribe of Yahudah. In common use, the term 'Jewish' is now applied to things pertaining to the Jews. Scriptural accuracy has no bearing on the use of the modern term 'Jewish'.See also the word 'Israel'
I "know" that the comment above is an honest sentiment ... but have you considered that "if" it were possible for us to answer it by "figuring it all out" that we (humans) WOULD THEN BE GODS !!! It's bad enough that some of us think that already !
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#2. To: fatidic, Itisa1mosttoolate (#1)
#3. To: NOLAJBS (#2)
#4. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#0)
"The mobs of great cities add just so much to the support of pure government, as sores do to the strength of the human body."
#5. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#0)
#6. To: NOLAJBS, Ittalmosttoolate (#2)
#7. To: fatidic (#6)
It comes down to either choosing to believe those who make claims that Jesus wasn't a Jew or believing the Bible.
#8. To: fatidic (#6)
I think the reason the two genologies differ is that one is for Mary and the other is for Joseph.
#9. To: Itisa1mosttoolate, noone222, fatidic, Zipporah (#7)
I think the reason the two genologies differ is that one is for Mary and the other is for Joseph. ... for one reveals his Davidic genealogy through Mary.. and the other through Joseph, for as Joseph was his adoptive father and according to the Law Jesus would also receive inheritance through Joseph.
Further, Jesus' Jewish heritage was recognized by both Pilate and the Pharissee's as recorded by Josephus, an extra-biblical contemporary historian:
Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews Book 18: 3.3: [63] Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
Pilate was the Roman procurator of Judea and accordingly was the only authority who could command/enforce a death sentance for a crime. But Pilate recognized the religious authority of the Pharisees over a fellow Jew (Jesus) whom the Pharisee's had petitioned Pilate for execution - under Jewish law. Pilate further offered the crowd (of Jews) to exchange the prisoner Barabas (also a Jew) for Jesus - a Jew for a Jew as demanded by Jews.
#10. To: Starwind (#9)
#11. To: Zipporah (#10)
What I do not understand is why it is SO important to those who take the stand that Jesus was not jewish?
#12. To: Starwind (#11)
Where Jesus is concerned, some will take any opportunity to cast doubt or obscure truth, while for other 'believers' it seems to be part of a needless and misguided interpretation that seeks to substitute the Church for Israel, and accordingly separate Jesus from Israel, so the substitution consequently 'aligns' Jesus with the Church and not Israel (again a needless and misguided interpretation).
#13. To: Zipporah (#12)
Well this is where we do disagree..
I believe that Jesus was jewish.. but I am a partial preterist..and I do not try to separate Jesus from his jewishness..
#14. To: Zipporah (#12)
#15. To: Barak, Zipporah (#14)
Somebody who calls himself a Christian and says that Jesus isn't Jewish is to be patted gently on the head and pitied.
#16. To: Starwind (#13)
I see the OT prophecies of two comings, first as the suffering/servant Messiah, second as the conquering Lord.
#17. To: Starwind, Barak (#15)
#18. To: Starwind, Zipporah (#15)
#19. To: Barak (#18)
No, I wasn't disagreeing with Zipporah; I was reinforcing her point. Or at least I intended to be.
#20. To: Barak (#18)
No, I wasn't disagreeing with Zipporah; I was reinforcing her point.
#21. To: fatidic (#6)
NOLAJBS, did you mean to call me a Nazi too?
#22. To: Barak (#14)
Somebody who calls himself a Christian and says that Jesus isn't Jewish is to be patted gently on the head and pitied.
#23. To: noone222 (#22)
Jesus was descended from the Davidic line, Jesus was of the House of Israel as well as the Tribe of Judah, and could still be non-Jewish.
While many people appear to be awakening to the thousands of years of deception and deportation of so-called Jews, they also appear to cling to false teachings and Jewish "fables" related to the heritage of modern Jewry.
The fact is, the comment quoted above is a condescending barb intended to shut the mouths of those wishing to submit a differing opinion.
#24. To: Barak (#23)
#25. To: Zipporah, Starwind, noone222 (#16)
I see them as one coming.. the suffering/servant Messiah AND the conquering Lord.. being that He conquered sin.. once and for all.. the wrath of God re sin taken out upon Himself.. and an 'escape' for those who will accept Him..
#26. To: Zipporah, Barak (#19)
No, I wasn't disagreeing with Zipporah; I was reinforcing her point. Or at least I intended to be.
#27. To: Diana (#25)
"let's have this guy take all the blame so we can go around
commiting bad acts".
#28. To: Zipporah (#27)
#29. To: Diana (#28)
Another thing, people talk about Jesus dying for our sins, as if no one else has ever died to save others, but there have been lots of people throughout history who have died so that others could live, such as countless soldiers and assorted brave souls. That's another point that has always bothered me. Okey I'll shut up now!
#30. To: Diana (#28)
#31. To: Barak (#30)
My rabbi explained it this way, without using any intimidating jargon. (Note: this is completely extra-biblical; if it doesn't help you, forget it.)
#32. To: Diana (#31)
What I don't get is how some Christians appear to think that all they have to do is believe Jesus is the son of God and then they can do whatever they want to.
#33. To: Diana (#31)
What I don't get is how some Christians appear to think that all they have to do is believe Jesus is the son of God and then they can do whatever they want to. It seems to me that if someone is sincere about being a Christian they would conduct themselves in a manner according to how the bible says we should behave. That's been a big stumbling block for me, it seems to me if a person loves God they should want to be good and do good.
#34. To: Barak (#32)
I don't think that good works will get you into Heaven, but your works spring from what you believe. As James said, "Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by what I do."
#35. To: Barak (#30)
Second, God does not decide who gets into Heaven and who doesn't. Individual people decide whether they want to have clean souls or not.
#36. To: noone222 (#7)
#37. To: Zipporah (#35)
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here.. People decide themselves? What if a murderer said he had no remorse and thought his soul was clean?
#38. To: fatidic (#36)
(A). Nothing you said was relevant concerning Jesus being a Jew! Believe what ever in the hell you want but to say that Jesus wasn't a Jew because you know of know place in the Bible where it states, "Jesus was a Jew" makes you look willfully ignorant.
#39. To: fatidic (#36)
#40. To: Diana (#26)
And I'm just trying to figure it all out!
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