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Religion
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Title: Christ Was Not A Jew
Source: israelect
URL Source: http://www.israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/ChristNotAJew.htm
Published: Jun 3, 2005
Author: WillieMartin
Post Date: 2005-06-03 09:45:20 by Itisa1mosttoolate
Keywords: Christ
Views: 2073
Comments: 183

Christ Was Not A Jew

Jesus Christ Was Not A Jew: Does this shock you? We certainly hope it does. For it is time that Christians woke up to the fact that they have been brainwashed by the Jews with the "big lie technique" to the falsehood that Christ was a Jew.

We ask you now, to set aside all prejudice in the matter and as God states in the Bible, "Come let us reason together." (Isaiah 1:18)

There are two ways that a person can be a Jew; racially (which means a cross between the descendants of Esau and True Israelites 49; There is Edom [Esau is called Edom in Genesis 36:8. And Edom is in 'Modern Jewry' Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925 edition, Vol. 5, p. 41) or religiously. Let us now see whether Christ fits either of these categories.

Ninety49;five percent of the people that we know as Jews today, are mongrels; they are a product of the amalgamation of many races. The majority of the Jews are Asiatics, of Mongolian, stock, the descendants of the tribes of Khazars of Russia who accepted Judaism in 740 A.D.

They are the descendants of Cain; No racial Jew is an Israelite. That's right, we repeat, NO RACIAL JEW IS AN ISRAELITE. The Bible itself identifies the Jews as the seed of Cain thereby identfying Satan as their father. (John 8:44)

Christ said to the Jews, in the 23rd chapter of Matthew, verses 3349;35: "You serpents, you generation (race) of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore behold I send you a prophet, wise men and scribes and some of them you shall kill and crucify and some of them yuo shall scourge in your synagogues and persecute them from city to city that upon you may come all the righteous blood that has ever been shed upon the earth from the blood of righteous Abel" (Note that carefully).

Here Christ is saying to the Jews that they are guilty of the murder of Abel. Jesus could not have said this unless the Jews were/are the descendants of Cain. Christ goes on to say: "Unto the blood of Zacharias, son of Brachias who you slew between the temple and the alter." It's very plan! And it's in your Bible.

Christ said to the Jews "You are guilty of the death of righteous Abel because you rfather Cain murdered him." It is also well for you to note here that Jesus further blames these Jews for all the deaths of righteous people from the beginning of time right down to this day. This is not a statement of man but of our Redeem, our King, our Savior.

Christ never lied and spoke only the truth; every word contained in the sixty49;six books of the Bible is the Word of Almighty God. Are the Jews then God's Chosen People as some "fogbound, lying, deceiving, Judeo49;Chrisian Clergy" would have us believe? Far from it! Rather than being God's Chosen People, they are Satan's Children! Let us turn for proof of this, to the eighth chapter of John the 42nd verse. The Jews have just said to Christ, we are God's Chosen People, God is our Father. Christ did not answer the Jews the way ninety49;nine percent of our Judeo49;Christian preachers would do today. Rather, He said in the 42nd vers, "If God were your Father you would love me for I proceeded forth and came from God. Neitherdid I come of myself, but He sent Me. Why is it that you do not understand my speech. It is because yuo cannot hear my words." (Read carefully the 44th verse) where Christ said to the Jews, "Ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks oa lie, he speaks of his own for he is a liar and the father of it."

The Word "Jew"

A Jew is a person whose religion is Jew49;dah49;ism (Judaism). The word Jew is not found in the original texts of the Scriptures, but in many English Bibles the word is an incorrect rendering of the latin word Judaeus, the Greek word Ioudaios, and the Hebrew word Yehudi. Although not found in either the Hebrew or the Greek Scriptures, the word Jew is an English rendering most often incorrectly translated from Yahudah, that is, referring to one belonging to one of the tribes of Israel (Yisrael) called Yahudah (Judah), a Yahudite. The word Jews, the plural of the word Jew, is incorrectly translated most often from the word Yahudim (descendants of the tribe of Yahudah).

The letter 'J' was not in general use until after the 17th century as used in many Bibles for the word 'Jew' to substitute for the correct word Yahudite, or Yahudim. In some English Bibles we have received the word Juda, also an error in translation because the word derives from the Greek Iudaios, which in the English would be Judaios. Judaios was none other then a Greek diety (see W.H. Roscher's lexicon of mythology).

As used in the Scriptures, the word 'Jew' is sometimes translated to refer to a Yudean (Judean) a native or inhabitant (which includes many diverse races and people groups living in the region) of Yudea (Judea). As the word 'American' includes many diverse peoples living in the Country called 'America'. The word very often refers to an advocate or adherent to the religion of the Yahudim, (Judaism), or it may in a few cases refer to a literal descendant of Abraham, Issac, Jacob/Israel, one of the descent of the tribe of Yahudah (Judah).

In present day generic usage, the word has no relationship to the Hebrew or the Greek translated words in the Old or New Covenant Scriptures, and is associated primarily through an adherent or advocate of Jew49;dah49;ism (Judaism) the religion, but not through ethnics or race. Basically, a Jew is anyone who decides to call himself/herself a Jew. Within Jewish Circles, there are two other official ways one can become a Jew. One can be born from a mother who calls herself a Jew, or one can 'convert' to become a Jew. (A convert is called a ger which literally means stranger). Being born a Jew is pretty simple. If one's mother is Jewish (of the Jewish religion) then he/she is considered a Jew, if one's mother is not of the Jewish religion, then neither is the child officially a Jew. (It doesn't matter what the father is).

Modern Jew49;dah49;ism began about 1000 AD, and is traced to Rabbenu Gershon of Mainz, Germany the 'Father' of the Ashkenazi Jews, which constitute approximately 90% of the worlds Jews. Modern Jew49;dah49;ism is not the Scriptural worship system of the Yahudim of the Scriptures.

Jews do not actively encourage conversion; to a large degree they discourage it. This is the reason Jews have never had missionaries trying to convert non49;Jews. They want the convert but the convert must be 100% committed to being a Jew. Discouraging conversion helps to filter out those 'lacking the proper degree' of commitment.

If the non49;Jew still wants to become a Jew, the male is circumcised. After he is healed, he immerses himself in a mikva. A mikva is a special pool of water which is used for many religious purposes in the religion of the Jews. (It must be made according to very specific rules). A female convert only has to immerse herself.

The term 'Jew', has come to be used synonymous with the term 'Israel, Israelite', however, this is error. Scriptural Israelites were never called Jews, (Yahudim), unless they were so associated by their religion. Most modern Jews are not of the tribe of Yahudah (Judah), and are not 'Israelites.' They are called Jew(s) because of their religion, Jew49;dah49;ism (Judaism).

Jew, Ashkenazi (Franco49;German, Eastern and Central European Jews)

After the Northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrian King Shalmaneser V, in 74549;722 BCE, (for their sin before Yahweh), the Israelites were exiled into (Assyria), 2 Kings 17:549;7. They prospered during the years in Assyria, and became a huge number of people. Outgrowing the land area they eventually migrated North through the 'Caucasus Mountains', and into central and Western Europe forming the European Nations, and are known as Caucasians 'whites.' As these Israelites migrated they influenced many people groups, no longer having an organized religious priesthood, and not having a nation or national identity, these migrating people, descendants of Jacob/Israel nevertheless passed on their bits and pieces of the ancient Scriptural worship system which was corrupted through their many years of captive living in pagan Assyria. During the 7th century A.D. these bits and pieces of the corrupt worship system became a form of Jew49;dah49;ism and was embraced by the Khazar King, his court, and the Khazar military class, who are descendants of Ashkenaz. This new religion of Jew49;dah49;ism, became the religion of the Khazars, and forms most of modern cultic European Jewry.

In common parlance the present day 'Jew' is synonymous with the 'Ashkenazi Khazar Jew'. Scripture refers to the Ashkenaz in Gen. 10:3, and in I Chron. 1:6, as one of the sons of Gomer, who was a son of Japheth, son of Noah. Ashkenaz is also a brother of Togarmah (and a nephew of Magog) who the Kazars, according to King Joseph, (of the Kazars) claimed as their ancestor. The people who refer to themselves as Ashkenazi Jews are not Israelites, and they are not Semites because they do not descend from Noah's son Shem. They are Ashkenazi Khazar Jews, who descend from Noah's son Japheth. Approximately 8549;90 percent of the Jews in the world call themselves Ashkenazi Jews.

Present49;day Jew49;dah49;ism, was formally formed into it's basic cultic form about 1,000 years ago, (according to the Jews), when 49; Rabbenu Gershon of Mainz, Germany, published a ban on bigamy. This marks the recorded beginning of the Ashkenazi Jews*, and Franco49;German halachic** creativity. The word 'Ashkenazi' is not Hebrew for the word Germany, although the name has become 'associated' with Germany because many Ashkenazi Jews organized in Russia, Eastern Europe and Western Mongolia.

*Ashkenazi 49; (Franco49;German, Eastern and Central European Jews). **halachic 49; loose 'interpretations' of Old Testament laws

Jew, Sephardim (Spanish Jews)

After the Northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrian King Shalmaneser V, in 74549;722 BCE, (for their sin before Yahweh), The Israelites were exiled into (Assyria), 2 Kings 17:549;7. The King then imported people groups from his country (Assyria) to replace the exiled Israelites to maintain and control the land of the exiles. The Sepharvaim were one of these people groups, along with Cuthahites, Arrahites, 2 Kings 17:24. They mingled with each other, along with Edomites, who had migrated Northward from Idumea (field of Edom), after Israel and the Yahudim (Judeans) were exiled. Adad and Anu were ancient gods of Babylonia and were also the gods of these pagan Sepharvaim people. The Sephardim Yudeans (Judeans) are a mongrel people whose descent is directly from a mixture of this Assyrian people group and the remnant of escaped Yudeans (Judeans) along with Edomites who had migrated into the land originally occupied by the Kingdom of Israel and the kingdom of Yahudah (Judah). This made their religion also of mixed character, 2 Kings 17:2449;41.

The people known as "Spanish Jews," are descended from the Canaanites, the people who colonized Carthage. Following its sack by Rome, they adopted this Sepharvaim, or Sephardim name for deceptive purposes and constitute 5% of world Jewry today. The Sephardim Jews speak Latino, a mixture of Spanish and Hebrew. The Sephardim Jews migrated West through Egypt, then North into Spain from Judea and Samaria before, during, and after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 CE,. This migration became known as the "Jewish 'Sephardim' Diaspora". Today, these Sephardim Jews are still using their ancient adopted name Sephardim (the spelling is a transliteration into English and not of significance). They settled in Spain, Portugal, the Eastern Mediterranean, Italy, the Balkans, Salonica and Macedonia, eventually emigrating into France and England, and Western Europe.

The Sepharviam Yudeans (Judeans) were known as Samaritans during the time of Messiah, because they were living in Samaria, which was the area from which Israel was removed by the Assyrian King Shalmaneser V. The twelve apostles during the time if Messiah, were instructed not to enter the cities of the Samaritans, Matt. 10:5. Although the True Israelites of tribal descent, living in Samaria did received the witness of Yahshua and the message of redemption from the apostles, Acts, 1:8. Some of the mixed Samaritans also became proselytes to the Christian faith, Acts 8:449;25.

The Sephardim Jews, (or Sepharviam Jews) are not of Israelite blood; they are not of the tribe of Yahudah although they were called Yudeans, 'Judeans', as an inhabitant, i.e. person living in the land originally occupied by the tribe of Yahudah of Israel). Their descent is mixed from Edom/Esau Canaanite stock. The Sephardim Jews, like the Ashkenazi Khazar Jews are not a Semitic people. The word Sephardim is not a Hebrew word for Spain, although the name has become 'associated' with Spain because many Sephardim Jews organized in Spain.

Jew49;dah49;ism, (modern 'Judaism')

Jew49;dah49;ism, is a cultic (ritual49;istic) religion which originated approximately 1000 CE, and is traced to Rabbenu Gershon of Mainz Germany through the publishing of his 'halachic creativity' (interpretation of Old Covenant laws), he thereby established the beginning of the modern cultic religion of Jew49;dah49;ism. Today the religion is also greatly influenced by the Babylonian Talmud, an ancient Pagan ritual49;listic system of various extreme opinions, interpretations, codes, rules, and regulations.

The modern cultic religion of Jew49;dah49;ism has nothing in common with the Scriptural Cultic system of worship which was completely destroyed by Messiah as a religious system in 70 CE at the destruction of Yerushalayim (Jerusalem), Herod's Temple, and through the establishment of the New Covenant through Yahshua Messiah. Christianity, as a religious system of Faith, replaced the ancient system of Cultic (ritual49;istic) sacrificial worship.

Jewish

A term incorrectly applied to reflect anything pertaining to a Yahudite, a descendant of the tribe of Yahudah. In common use, the term 'Jewish' is now applied to things pertaining to the Jews. Scriptural accuracy has no bearing on the use of the modern term 'Jewish'.See also the word 'Israel'

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#60. To: Zoroaster (#59)

While I may be hesitant to accept all contained in your very interesting post ... I couldn't agree more with the depiction of those we refer to as "jews" ... forgery being as natural as breathing etc.,

noone222  posted on  2005-06-04   9:37:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Zoroaster (#59)

Well to say this is preposterous is an understatement..

Make hay not war

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-04   10:24:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: noone222, Itisa1mosttoolate, Zipporah, Diana, fatidic, Don, Tauzero, Barak, CAPPSMADNESS (#55)

besides screwing with my world view

Regarding noone222's "world view" (which he doesn't want screwed with) noone222 and Itisa1mosttoolate are posting "Christian Identity" material authored by Wille Martin, a leader of the Christian Identity cult.

Willie Martin's reference materials are outlined at: The Christian Israel (Identity) Truth. Here are a few titles therefrom:

Willie Martin's "bible study" materials are also promulgated by the Christian Party. Here is Willie Martin (now a physicist and cosmologist as well a bible teacher) at http://christianparty.net/ einsteinmartin.htm on Albert Einstein:

When we actually examine the life of Albert Einstein, WE FIND THAT HIS ONLY BRILLIANCE LIES IN HIS ABILITY TO PLAGIARIZE AND STEAL OTHER PEOPLE=S IDEAS, PASSING THEM OFF AS HIS OWN (A typical Jewish expertise). Einstein's education, or lack thereof, is an important part of this story.

Willie Martin's theology ('Christ was a caucasian', 'USA is restored Israel', 'Jesus was not a Jew', etc) and his bible exegesis is so bad and distorted that in the words of Wolfgang Pauli, "It's not right. It's not even wrong. " I may (as I did above in post #9 address some of the more silly arguments offered by Martin/noone22. But for now, I may offer some thoughts in addition to Zipporah's answers to to Diana's questions.

My purpose in this post was only to expose the underlying agenda in Willie Martin's writing, and provide lurkers with some links where they can review Martin's writing's for themselves. This may help to place the arguments being offered in a recognizable context.

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2005-06-04   10:41:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: noone222 (#38)

You can spam this thread with a million irrelevant words which will only demonstrate that you are not only stupid but also evil. My response is not for your benefit but for others who may be deceived by your irrelevant wordiness.

Jesus was born to two Jewish parents whose geneologies you can read in Mathew and Luke. That makes Jesus a Jew.

Jesus kept the Jewish law perfectly and that makes Him a Jew.

The Bible is full of references to Jesus' Jewish roots and fulfillment of Jewish prophecies. John wrote that salvation comes from the Jews and Jesus is our salvation. That makes Jesus a Jew.

It comes down to believing your irrelevat silly word games or honestly looking at relevant words to determine their sense and meaning. In other words, your word plays or the Bible. You believe in your silliness and i believe the Bible.

From now on you, noone222, are a non-entity to me. I have no more pearls for you to trample and i will not answer a fool lest he think he is wise (only in his own eyes, of course).

fatidic  posted on  2005-06-04   10:59:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: fatidic (#63)

I have no more pearls for you to trample and i will not answer a fool lest he think he is wise (only in his own eyes, of course).

That's OK by me ... you could at least support "your" pearls with a little scripture prior to the name calling, rather than expect others to swallow those "huge" pearls whole ...

noone222  posted on  2005-06-04   11:07:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Starwind (#62)

Thanks.. One cannot follow Christ Jesus and reject His own words..for then you are following 'another' Christ.. Jesus taught and spoke of the law and taught and quoted the prophets.. 1 John 4: 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Make hay not war

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-04   11:16:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Starwind, Zipporah (#62)

My purpose in this post was only to expose the underlying agenda in Willie Martin's writing, and provide lurkers with some links where they can review Martin's writing's for themselves. This may help to place the arguments being offered in a recognizable context.

I very much appreciate your taking the time to respond to so much distortion that it is difficult to know where to begin. Thank you, Starwind.

Since it is obvious that those who proclaim patently obvious distortions and lies are not honest in their search for understanding and truth, i think it is best not to get sucked into a point-by-point rebuttal of their lies as you then enter their distored reality of weird presuppostions. Where will it end for as soon as you rebutt one lie, they pop up with more--it's easier to make things up as you go than honestly examining the text for clues to obtaining an accurate understanding. Notice how these dishonest, dishonorable ones ignore what is inconvienent and disturbing to their hateful world view and rely on extra-biblical sources to support their prejudices.

There are many points of belief and conviction where honest, truth-seeking individuals can disagree based on differing understandings of biblical texts, and we can come together here to share reasons, but this vile so called "Christian" identity movement is not one of them as their fruits reveal. I would not want this forum to be identified with such movements as we are then all tainted by their hatreds and distructive agenda.

fatidic  posted on  2005-06-04   11:17:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#0)

One of a number of expressions Christ habitually used when disputing with the Pharisees, was "It is written in your law . . ." This in itself is just odd enough to attract the notice of someone who has been paying attention. If he had been, as everywhere alleged, a "Jew," would he not have said "It is written in THE law" - or even better yet, "It is written in OUR (mutual, common) law" ?

In the Footsteps of Heroes

1776  posted on  2005-06-04   11:20:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Starwind (#62)

My purpose in this post was only to expose the underlying agenda in Willie Martin's writing, and provide lurkers with some links where they can review Martin's writing's for themselves.

Let me first say that I am in the learning process, willing to listen or read the analysis of others investigations, eager to know the "TRUTH" wherever that leads. I sometimes think we all have preconceived or even implanted opinions, that we must admit that we have been manipulated in so many other ways aside from our spiritual belief systems, so why shouldn't they have been tinkered with when they are so important.

When I find that someones analysis has a basis in fact or history, I don't necessarily believe it, nor do I "pitch it" out of hand ... I take my time and consider it.

Main Stream Media is tainted, the educational system is tainted and we are to assume the theological institutions haven't been. Look at the right wing conservative (puke) Christian support for the butcher of Baghdad, George "w" Bush. This man isn't consistent with Christianity, and is a member of the Skull and Bones death cult.

People have thought the world was flat, that slavery was legal (lawful) and the earth was the center of the universe. I don't have all of the answers, that's for sure and I readily admit it. However, others that sometimes place their opinion above that of others haven't even bothered to do the research to support their claim, and resort to name calling, innuendo and hyperbole ...

noone222  posted on  2005-06-04   11:22:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: fatidic (#66)

There are many points of belief and conviction where honest, truth-seeking individuals can disagree based on differing understandings of biblical texts, and we can come together here to share reasons, but this vile so called "Christian" identity movement is not one of them as their fruits reveal. I would not want this forum to be identified with such movements as we are then all tainted by their hatreds and distructive agenda.

I agree there are points of disagreement regarding scripture that Christians can have disagreement.. but we worship the same Lord the same Christ.. the same gospel. Cults come in many forms.. and I see them all as having the same problem.. whether they be Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, The Way, the United Pentatcostal Church and even Christian Identity.. they preach another Christ another Jesus..another gospel. This forum is not a Christian forum but many are Christians who post here.. just as there are atheists..possibly some of the other cults that I listed... and maybe Hindus? I dont know.. but if religious articles/opinions are posted, then as Christians declare the true gospel then the light of that gospel will reveal the darkness..

Make hay not war

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-04   11:28:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: 1776 (#67)

One of a number of expressions Christ habitually used when disputing with the Pharisees, was "It is written in your law . . ." This in itself is just odd enough to attract the notice of someone who has been paying attention. If he had been, as everywhere alleged, a "Jew," would he not have said "It is written in THE law" - or even better yet, "It is written in OUR (mutual, common) law" ?

To which scriptures are you referring?

Make hay not war

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-04   11:29:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: fatidic, Zipporah, Christine (#66)

Zipporah: One cannot follow Christ Jesus and reject His own words..for then you are following 'another' Christ..

Amen.

Fatidic: best not to get sucked into a point-by-point rebuttal of their lies as you then enter their distored reality of weird presuppostions. Where will it end for as soon as you rebutt one lie, they pop up with more.

Yes. Much like battling a Hydra. Rather than attmept to cut off each head, just go for the heart. Expose the big lie, rather than each convoluted distortion.

I would not want this forum to be identified with such movements as we are then all tainted by their hatreds and distructive agenda.

That would be tragic. Yet another forum rent by the enemy's hatred and manipulative lies.

Our Lord exhorts us: "you are in the midst of wolves; be wise as serpents, yet gentle as doves" (Mat 10:16)

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2005-06-04   11:30:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Starwind (#62)

Oh yeah, Willie Martin and others believe that the caucasion people are the sole ethnic descendants of Jacob/Israel. I'm not so sure.

While I believe that white people are descended from Jacob/Israel, I also believe other races could also be descendants as well. We don't know positively what the racial make-up of the hand-maidens that bore him children happened to be.

The early migrations of the Tribes cannot be positively traced, however, much evidence supports the notion that whites are his descendants. The one factor that is very hard to deny is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Promises. Those calling themselves Jews today cannot even claim the first one, that they would be many Nations and an innumerable multitude.

noone222  posted on  2005-06-04   11:30:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#0)

Christ Was Not A Jew

And the Pope is not Catholic. Give me a break...

FormerLurker  posted on  2005-06-04   11:33:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Starwind (#71)

Zipporah: One cannot follow Christ Jesus and reject His own words..for then you are following 'another' Christ..

Agreed: So what about when He said to the Pharisees (Talmudic Rabbis) Ye are of your FATHER the DEVIL and the lusts thereof ye do ... he was a "MURDERER" from the beginning (reference to the 1st murderer, Cain) and the truth does not abide in you for he (their father) is a liar and the FATHER of it (reference to the Father of lies the serpent/satan).

noone222  posted on  2005-06-04   11:44:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Zipporah (#61)

Well to say this is preposterous is an understatement..

The late Dr. Oliver was on the right track. What he wrote in "The Last Stand" is far more plausible, i.e. less preposterous, than the biblical myth and dogma accepted as fact by true believers.

"Every religion is true oned way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphores, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble."

JOSEPH CAMPBELL, THE POWER OF MYTH (1988)

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.

Zoroaster  posted on  2005-06-04   11:46:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: noone222 (#74)

IMO its quite obvious what Jesus meant.. he was speaking SPIRITUALLY not physically.. It is very wrong headed to take one scripture and build an entire doctrine from that scripture.. Two or more 'witnesses' ..God in human form as Jesus came to earth to deal with the spiritual problem of mankind..

Make hay not war

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-04   11:47:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: noone222 (#72)

Oh yeah, Willie Martin and others believe that the caucasion people are the sole ethnic descendants of Jacob/Israel. I'm not so sure.

much evidence supports the notion that whites are his descendants.

Caucasian means of the Caucasus Mountains (bounded by the Black and Caspian Seas to the east and west, Russia to the north, and Turkey and Iran to the south).

Willie Martin claims "Your Savior, YAHSHUA (JESUS CHRIST), was a Caucasian", ie Christ came from Caucasia (the Caucasus Mountains) or that his descendants did and came to American where caucasians are called "whites".

Think about your argument. Jesus was a Caucasian and his descendants. You are arguing Jesus Christ biologically fathered a race of children from the Caucasus Mountains.

Such is your world view that you don't want screwed with (well screwed with any further).

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2005-06-04   11:48:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Zoroaster (#75)

Not going to try to convince you that Christianity is truth.. for that revelation must come from God Himself through the Holy Spirit..

Make hay not war

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-04   11:49:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: noone222 (#74)

So what about when He said to the Pharisees (Talmudic Rabbis) Ye are of your FATHER the DEVIL and the lusts thereof ye do

Read your own words. Jesus was speaking directly to the Pharisees. He was speaking to their spiritual leadership from Satan.

Christ did not say all twelve tribes of Israel (Hebrews, Israelites, Jews whatever name you wish to use) are of their father the devil. He was speaking to and about the Pharisees, castigating them for their religious falsehoods.

But you already knew that.

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2005-06-04   11:54:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Starwind, fatidic, noone222, Zipporah, ALL (#71)

I see no problem with the discussion/debate on this or any other topic. As long as each person is attempting to support their point of view with research and with the absense of personal attacks, I believe that this can be productive and informative for all. I would hope that we are all capable of recognizing that the various positions of posters are their individual opinions and not that of the forum as a whole.

christine  posted on  2005-06-04   11:59:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Zipporah (#78)

I don't reject Christ, just the biblical myth and dogma. The belief that becomes truth for me come from my inner God-given light.

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.

Zoroaster  posted on  2005-06-04   12:01:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Starwind (#79)

IMO the biggest flaw is the reference to the Abrahamic covenant, in that they say it was a fleshly promise.. but of course, repeatedly in scripture it states that the seed of Abraham are those of FAITH.. the people of faith inherit the promises of the Abrahamic covenant.. Gal 3:7 7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. and Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ... therefore, it is not the flesh.. and this is why in Galatians 8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.... it is said the GOSPEL was preached unto Abraham.. it was the promise of Christ Jesus.. to those of faith..

Make hay not war

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-04   12:04:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: christine, Zipporah (#80)

As long as each person is attempting to support their point of view with research and with the absense of personal attacks,

Agreed. Without personal attacks, and I would venture to say without spamming a thread as well.

Any topic can be discussed with civility. It is the lack of civility which tears forums apart, not the diversity of views.

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2005-06-04   12:05:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Zoroaster (#81)

I don't reject Christ, just the biblical myth and dogma

So you say you do not reject Him but you reject His words .. this to me makes no sense..

Make hay not war

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-04   12:06:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Starwind (#83)

It is the lack of civility which tears forums apart, not the diversity of views.

Exactly..

Make hay not war

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-04   12:07:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Zipporah (#84)

I don't reject Christ, just the biblical myth and dogma So you say you do not reject Him but you reject His words .. this to me makes no sense..

Thomas Jefferson had problems with the Bible so he wrote his own version. Perhaps, through a feeling of inadquacy, I haven't attempted such a venture

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.

Zoroaster  posted on  2005-06-04   12:42:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Zipporah, Barak (#34)

I don't think that good works will get you into Heaven, but your works spring from what you believe. As James said, "Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by what I do."

That makes sense. I think the heart has to be in the right place.

It's just that over the years I've run into too many Christians who are either uppity (for no apparent reason) or think because they believe in Jesus they can lie, cheat and steal, get drunk or just do whatever. I admire those Christians who do behave according to the laws God has given us.

Diana  posted on  2005-06-04   13:17:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Zipporah, Barak (#35)

To: Barak

Second, God does not decide who gets into Heaven and who doesn't. Individual people decide whether they want to have clean souls or not.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here.. People decide themselves? What if a murderer said he had no remorse and thought his soul was clean? What about a sociopath?

That's another good point; what about people who are sociopaths, have damaged brains or are just born with brain-wiring that makes them incapable of caring about others, or makes them highly impulsive and prone to bad behavior? Because we are not all the same, everyone does not start out on the same level, everyone is put together differently.

Diana  posted on  2005-06-04   13:22:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#43)

A pregnat Mexican woman comes over the border and has a baby. What is the baby called?

American Citizen?

Diana  posted on  2005-06-04   13:35:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Diana (#87)

That makes sense. I think the heart has to be in the right place.

Well the bible does have a prophesy about this and Christians:

“And I shall give them one heart, and shall put a new spirit within them. And I shall take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances, and do them. Then they will be My people, and I shall be their God”

..so.. it is about the 'heart'.. of course not the physical heart.. but it's not only just by our choices we make but God Himself changes those who know Him..

Make hay not war

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-04   14:14:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Zoroaster (#86)

Thomas Jefferson had problems with the Bible so he wrote his own version. Perhaps, through a feeling of inadquacy, I haven't attempted such a venture

Hm Jefferson had some issues of which I was not aware..

Make hay not war

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-04   14:15:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Zipporah (#91)

Hm Jefferson had some issues of which I was not aware..

A Goggle search will add to your knowledge of Thomas Jefferson. I might add that many of the founders were deists.

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.

Zoroaster  posted on  2005-06-04   14:32:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Zipporah, Starwind, Christine (#69)

Cults come in many forms.. and I see them all as having the same problem.. whether they be Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, The Way, the United Pentatcostal Church and even Christian Identity.. they preach another Christ another Jesus..another gospel.

Well said, and spot on, Zip. It's always about redefining Jesus and His ministry that separates Christians from cults. It is pure evil to redefine Jesus and seek to ensnare others in a system of bondage and spiritual darkness. False prophets/teachers have evil fruits always characterized by hate, bondage and fear. The so-called Christian Identity movement are hate mongers and race baiters and liars, like their father the devil.

fatidic  posted on  2005-06-04   15:39:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Zoroaster (#92)

Jesus speaking to the Jews:

John 8:42-47
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

In the Footsteps of Heroes

1776  posted on  2005-06-04   15:50:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: 1776 (#94)

Thanks, you've added "specific evidence" to support this article.

"I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not." Isaiah 66:4, KJV

"... because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" 2 Thessalonians 2:10b-11, KJV

Itisa1mosttoolate  posted on  2005-06-04   15:57:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#0)

John 7:13
Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews.

John 19:38
And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.

John 20:19
Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

In the Footsteps of Heroes

1776  posted on  2005-06-04   15:59:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#95)

The Self-Chosen terrorized Mel Gibson until he deleted this from The Passion of the Christ

Matthew 27:25
Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

In the Footsteps of Heroes

1776  posted on  2005-06-04   16:03:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: 1776 (#97)

Why does the Pope wear a Yamaka?

http://www.zionjudaica.com/project/shop/subcategory.php?catid=43

Itisa1mosttoolate  posted on  2005-06-04   16:09:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: fatidic (#93)

Well said, and spot on, Zip. It's always about redefining Jesus and His ministry that separates Christians from cults. It is pure evil to redefine Jesus and seek to ensnare others in a system of bondage and spiritual darkness. False prophets/teachers have evil fruits always characterized by hate, bondage and fear. The so-called Christian Identity movement are hate mongers and race baiters and liars, like their father the devil.

I may disagree and vehemently disagree.. but as Chris said debate and discussion as long as it's civil.. is the goal. So if you disagree please add to the discussion.. for I think it's important that those who do take issue with others stance or beliefs contribute so there is both sides to this issue or any other..

Make hay not war

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-04   16:47:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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