See other Neocon Nuttery Articles
Title: The Genesis of the Smears (JOHN COLE ASKS ABOUT FREEPER ICUWHATUDO)
Source:
John Cole's Balloon Juice
URL Source: http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8849
Published: Oct 11, 2007
Author: John Cole
Post Date: 2007-10-11 14:47:37 by aristeides
Keywords: None
Views: 2335
Comments: 176
The Genesis of the Smears By: John Cole October 11, 2007 at 12:53 pm Appears to have been an aide to Mitch McConnell, according to the Communists at ThinkProgress: On Monday morning, Don Stewart sent an email with the following text to reporters: Seen the latest blogswarm? Apparently, there’s more to the story on the kid (Graeme Frost) that did the Dems’ radio response on SCHIP. Bloggers have done a little digging and turned up that the Dad owns his own business (and the building it’s in), seems to have some commercial rental income and Graeme and a sister go to a private school that, according to its website, costs about $20k a year ‹for each kid‹ despite the news profiles reporting a family income of only $45k for the Frosts. Could the Dems really have done that bad of a job vetting this family? In the email, Stewart attacks Democrats for allegedly doing a bad job “vetting this family.” That effort to blame Democrats for the smear campaign seems to have swayed some reporters, as CNN this morning claimed that the real story is that “the Democrats didn’t do as much of a vetting as they could have done.” What is so surprising about all of this is not that all of the stuff in the leaked email has turned out to be completely false- that is just amusing. What is surprising is THE SPEED with which the “citizen journalists” ran with this, and echoed everything the leaked email did- just like good little soldiers. It was viral in no time. I would not be surprised if Malkin, Limbaugh, and some folks at the NRO were not in the coterie of ‘reporters’ this was emailed to, nor would I be surprised if they got it from a friend of a friend (despite pretending to be different from the beltway crowd, all of the above are insiders to the Washington game, despite their protests otherwise). I’d like to know a little more about the freeper who ran with this in the first place, giving Michelle and others their “in” to run with the story without having to be the ones to take the blame for doing it. Who is icuwhatudo? What is her/his real identity? How is this person connected to the McConnell aide or the reporters who received this list. Or was it just a coincidence? If I prided myself in being a citizen journalist, those are the questions I would be asking. And does anyone have any pictures of his living room?
ThinkProgress has obtained an email that congressional sources tell us was sent to reporters by Sen. McConnell’s communications director Don Stewart.
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-110) not displayed.
.
.
.
#111. To: Mekons4, scrapper2 (#101)
I'm talking about in 2003 before they had any medical bills. Let's put it this way: you go down to your State Farm, All State, whatever agent, and ask them how much it would cost to put a medical rider on your auto policy. Come back and tell us all how much, and then we can continue the debate. You probably don't want to do that though because it's not as much fun as name calling.
b. The Frosts also said that they recently have been denied private insurance coverage three times because of pre-existing medical conditions. a. You are into tall grass territory with your latest accusations. I used to think you were better than this, robin. Fyi, I have ZERO association with any reichwing group or blog and I don't belong to any GOP secret forum poster aggitator club. I haven't even looked at Malkin's blog to read what she said or didn't say and I don't listen to fat Pills Limbaugh that's for sure - you otoh seem obsessed with everything they say or write - which seems odd to me frankly. As for attack tactics on other posters here - give me a friggin' break - that's a lie - I admit I frequently use irony, humor to poke fun at silly nonsense but you and Mekons and aristeides have been nothing short of MALICIOUS to me - you 3 have taken turns insulting me left and right in a very mean spirited fashion - calling me unschooled, stupid, evil, dispicable, a mental case, on the Dark Side. The absolute kicker has been the latest whisper campaign you and your compadres have started - that I'm a "mole." As for your unsubstantiated observation that " leading more than one moderate poster here to speculate about your motives." Yes, right, let me guess - those more than one "moderate posters" are you and Mekons4 and aristeides - the 3 Amigos of Bolshevik Utopia Land. Perhaps you think it's been easy to stick to my convictions these past few days with the pack of you trying to bring me to heel with your uncivil tongues but fyi - not that you care - it has not. But I have endured this gang up on one because I know I'm right. And I'm not going to allow myself to be brow beaten to say otherwise. This is a political discussion board to celebrate free and independent thinking and I refuse to be cowed into groupthink The Frosts own their mess due to a series of irresponsible and negligent decisions. The reichwingers' tactics are distasteful but they did not get into the picture until the Frosts came out of the shadows to center stage and in front of the microphone. The Dem Party hacks used this child for a photo op so they are no more "pro-children" than the GOP are. Cynicom and rowdee are right when they say both political parties are looking for an angle to get into power or to stay in power. b. You keep flogging this story about the Frosts being denied insurance because of pre-existing brain injuries as though that's supposed to rehabilitate them into perfect parents who adequately protected their dependents in 2004...it doesn't. This late 2007. If anything this proves how the negligent and irresponsible decisions of Mr. and Mrs Frost in 2004 - by choosing not to establish an HSA and to buy a high deductible catastrophic insurance plan and a medical benefit ryder on their auto insurance - has created difficulties today. This is what happens when you have "other priorities" and you have a family and through caution to the winds. Insurance companies are not going to take on this family of accident victims without charging a high premium - at least initially -to compensate for the projected costs of the long term medical care. They are going to pay a high premium now because of their negligent decision 4 years ago, but they will get insurance.
Yeah, because 1500 sq. ft is such a tiny shack. In fact it ought to be a law that no one has to live in a house under 3000 sq. ft.
If antedotes are 'worthless' why did you bring up your child your daughter {I believe that was on another thread]?
I think it's funny when people call me any of those.
" Junk is the ideal product... the ultimate merchandise. No sales talk necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy." - William S Burroughs
Is it easy to get here in Idaho? Does it grow in cold climes? Or is it manufactured? What do the pharmacists call the stuff?
Since when is a car accident a bad choice? The Frosts have been denied coverage 3 times, because their children have suffered permanent damage from a car accident. Once their children are 65, the govt will take good care of them, until then they must become poor enough to qualify for govt Medicare for the poor; at which point they will no longer be productively working. SCHIPS was created to help families just like the Frosts. A family of 6 on $45K-50K who cannot obtain or afford health insurance. Would you prefer the Frosts turn their children over to the courts? That would certainly cost the taxpayer more and destroy the children's lives. Or they could move to any country in Europe. After what the GOP hate machine has put them through, I wouldn't blame them if they did.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
How should I know, just gimme gimme gimme!
" Junk is the ideal product... the ultimate merchandise. No sales talk necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy." - William S Burroughs
It isn't. The bad choice came before the accident when they didn't put a medical care addendum on their auto insurance policy. What's so hard to grasp about that? How can you expect people to make responsible choices like budgeting for auto medical coverage when then are no negative consequences for taking the irresponsible route of letting the taxpayers take the hit? This is the same mentality that leads banks and subprime borrowers to make stupid choices. "The government will bail me out tomorrow, why worry about today?"
I refuse to buy into the emotional issues either side is dredging up, the fact is that I should not be taxed to pay for anyones healthcare, whether they are pathetic little American children, Mexican truck drivers, or Chinese hookers.
" Junk is the ideal product... the ultimate merchandise. No sales talk necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy." - William S Burroughs
So being in a car accident and being denied health insurance 3 times is irresponsible? Working, paying taxes, trying to start a business, paying your bills for six people is negligent? You really need to try reading some of the obnoxious remarks you've made to the reasonable and moderate posters who tried to help you see this subject from the facts. That you were mistaken as a member of the GOP hate machine by aristeides should tell you how far you have drifted from civil and reasonable discourse.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
That was no guarantee anyway! Insurance companies can decide not renew a policy. And they can deny coverage of certain areas even if you have it. A family of 6 living on $45K cannot pay $1200 a month for health insurance. That was the last quote they had.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
If I may... You are 100% correct in your priorities of how to spend my money once it's taken from me. I'm still arguing that it should not have been taken from me.
" Junk is the ideal product... the ultimate merchandise. No sales talk necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy." - William S Burroughs
I understand this viewpoint up to a point. Consider that we pay taxes to destroy Iraqi families, and to Israel to bomb Gaza and Lebanon. Yes, the system is screwed. If every American over 65 receives Social Security payments and Medicare then children caught between poverty and the ability to obtain and afford health insurance should be eligible too. It's about being part of an advanced civilization, otherwise you will see families like the Frosts begin to fall apart and end up truly in poverty and receiving Medicare - at greater taxpayer expense.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Robin, c'mon......You get insurance BEFORE the need arises; not after. Whoever heard of a house getting flooded and then running out and buying insurance to cover the damages?
In utopia, it will be better. It will take a lot of planning though, keeping a civilization but not bothering anyone.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
What was no guarantee? Are you telling me State Farm wouldn't sell these people a medical rider on their auto policy in 2003-2004? That's nonsense. A family of 6 living on $45K cannot pay $1200 a month for health insurance. That was the last quote they had. I'm not even talking about full medical insurance. I'm talking about just coverage for car accident injuries and it doesn't cost anywhere near $1200 a month.
Health insurance providers can refuse to renew policies. When the Frosts last checked, coverage for their family of 6 was $1200/month. Well beyond their means. And even if you have health insurance, they can refuse to cover necessary therapy and even life-saving procedures. That's what "Sicko" and "The Rainmaker" were about.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Well, no, I'd imagine 45-50% of their income is eaten up by the tax monster too. It's only at the extremes of the spectrum that people benefit.
" Junk is the ideal product... the ultimate merchandise. No sales talk necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy." - William S Burroughs
So can the government. At least I can sue the insurance company for breach of contract.
WHY should the middle class have to self-insure themselves by putting up their entire life's work just in case and then be willing to spend every penny on to bankrubptcy so every big corporation gets their cut..? Do the rich folks do that? Do the politicians do that? I dodn't think so.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition Private health insurance is renewed annually, just like auto insurance. Auto insurance companies can decide not to renew your policy, and so can health insurance companies. The details of their car accident were not revealed to my knowledge, and not germane to the health insurance SHIPS subject. Remember, the Frosts are just one family caught between being ineligible for Medicare and being able to afford or obtain health insurance.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Utopia? I just want the bastards to quit stealing the beer cans from my recycle box.
" Junk is the ideal product... the ultimate merchandise. No sales talk necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy." - William S Burroughs
Yes, that's true. But in this case the govt, through SHIPS, came to the rescue, as the Frosts were denied private health insurance 3 times.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Sign up now for govt homeowners insurance - it's a new bureaucracy called "Katrina Mae". :)
" Junk is the ideal product... the ultimate merchandise. No sales talk necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy." - William S Burroughs
I agree.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
I'll book my Gulf cruise now then.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
What happened to the good old days when a doctor came to your farm and you paid him with eggs?! I dunno, the system is in many ways corrupt. Saving a family like the Frosts seems like a good way to spend tax money, compared to all the other ways it is usually spent. Ron Paul talks about weaning Americans from nanny govt, but I don't think it will happen entirely ever; even when he is elected.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Not once you are actually drawing a claim. If you buy $500,000 of auto medical they are on the hook for $500,000 from the claimable incident whether or not you continue your coverage with them. If insurance was like you make it out to be, a homeowner who has his house burn could just not have his insurance policy renewed and he would have to rebuild on his own. Yes they can cancel before any future incidents happen but they still have to pay for the burned down house.
Remember, the Frosts are just one family caught between being ineligible for Medicare and being able to afford or obtain health insurance. As thieving as the gubmint is, and as nasty as the corporatism and bankster inflation cartel is, I can tell you that many, many of those people are living beyond their means. Now they might have to move to a cheap area like Western Tennessee and live in a 1,200 sq. ft house, cut coupons, never eat out, pay cash for used cars, watch a 20 inch TV with no cable (or gasp, no TV at all), no 30 pack of Miller every week, and you might actually have to cook the kids breakfast instead of the 5 dollar box of Fruit Loops, and pack them sandwiches and a Thermos of soup for lunch, but if you aren't already doing those things, you ain't broke enough to get sympathy from me.
Well, if/when the Frosts are that broke they will be fully eligible for some form of Medicare. They are above the poverty line at the moment.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Where are you coming from? Middle class people - ones whom I know personally and myself included - don't "put up their entire life's work just in case and then be willing to spend every penny on to bankrubptcy so every big corporation gets their cut." The whole point of insurance to protect oneself and one's assets against catastrophic events so as not to go broke. If you are talking about health/auto/propertyinsurance premiums everyone I know pays a monthly premium and that's it. I've never heard of anyone doing what you are suggesting to pay for health/property/auto insurance. The monthly costs are hardly at the horrendus level you imply. Don't you have insurance? You sound like you don't have a handle on premium charges. If you want to protect yourself, your family, and your assets in this nation as well as most Western nations you need insurance. I did not implement the system, I just play by the rules handed down to me through various scrapper generations. The poor typically don't need insurance apart from auto because they don't own property and they get gubment health care. The rich are insured up to the top limits in each category with some type of umbrella insurance on top of everything- if you think Bill Gates, Tony Blair, Angela Merkel have no insurance plans you are deluding yourself.
I ain't talking about the "poverty line". Those things I mentioned are things families should be doing way, way, way above the poverty line. If I hadn't spent so much of my life in rural Michigan, watching the broke asses' cars sit in the bar parking lot three nights a week and seeing them buying a pack of Winstons every morning at the gas station, and the pure garbage food at the grocery store, I would probably have a big liberal heart. But I've lived long among the rural poor, and many ain't really poor, they just suck with money.
Puleeze, robin,,,,,,the world wasn't against these folks. Just the 'evil'
GOPers are. Doncha know, they sacrifice their babies to Molech or is that
Magog.....the first child and the third. The second is kept as a trophy of
their prowess in the bedroom and for appearances sake, at the least. The
last child is always left in some parish.....oops, maybe shouldn't say
that.....left somewhere for use at the Bohemian Grove or some other god-
forsaken place for ritualistic abuse. Or is that to be used for perverts
pleasure. Go ahead and make all/every excuse...all the
wouldas/coulda/shouldas.....it is all hindsight excuses or enabling of the
next batch of bad decision makers. And why are they having 4 kids? Why
isn't gubmint demanding a replacement policy.....we don't have the resources,
neither monetarily or natural, to take care of all these peoples. And what
happened to that car in every garage? The chicken in every pot? Or the
amerikan dream of a house? I think every family should have a cat; why
isn't gubmint taking care of the cat population in that way? Maybe dogs should
be included here, too. I think all kids should be able to wear Jordain Air
shoes, or whatever they're called.....so they don't feel bad to see their
friends in them........should gubmint provide these, too? And I can't help
but laugh......'government-funded'.........where is that damned money tree at?
If everyone was guaranteed a car, we wouldn't have car jackings, or grand
theft auto..and there could be tons of jobs for building these cars. Where's
gubmint on this? I can't wait til the demand for the fast food cops comes
out in force........they are bad for your health, and with health costs what
they are, they have to be made out of toofuu or whatever that crap is. Cows
milk = bad; soy is good. And then what happens when it is decided that
babies with acid reflux problems are too costly to the system; have to be in
it too long; so we just won't cover that expense any more. I believe I
read on one of these threads that the S CHIP (gads, that name is enough to
make one ill) covers to age 26. I guess that is so that those who believe they
are infallible and death or major problems will never affect them and so they
don't get insurance get covered. 26 is a 'kid'? This has all been a dog
and pony show. Just goes along with all this past years' electioneering
gimmicks. The eye is being kept off something...... Its all disjointed
(this response), but what the hell........who cares........its coming; and
there will never be a turning back. If anyone thinks that incrementalism isn't
alive and well had better change their meds. Incrementalism only works when it
is going towards socialism/communism. RIP, amerikan republic.
According to statistics I have read the middle class find $ for eating out and Christmas gift shopping but those are higher priorities than health care insurance. "Almost the entire increase in people without health insurance from 2005 to 2006 took place in families with incomes above $50,000 (median family income is $48,200)...Families with incomes above $50,000 a year account for an improbable 93% of the 2.1 million increase in the uninsured, and now represent 38% of the total uninsured in the United States. Two-thirds of the 2005-2006 increase was actually in families with incomes above $75,000. How far up into the middle class these incomes put someone obviously depends on where they live. In Manhattan, $75,000 a year is not a lot of money (consider that just parking your car, if you are foolish enough to own one, can cost $500 a month). In Topeka, Kansas, however, it’s upper middle class....In 2005, Americans spent about $250 billion out of pocket on health services and had another $190 billion taken out of their paychecks for health insurance premiums. In 2005, we spent a comparable amount, about $440 billion, on Christmas presents and about $470 billion on restaurants and fast food. How important is health coverage for middle and upper middle class households in their mix of spending priorities? ...
Denied BEFORE or AFTER the accident?
comparatively speaking, yes, but multiply a family like the Frosts by 100s of thousands of them. do you want to be responsible for all of them? i don't. no one ever said life is fair. there have been and always will be the haves and have nots. i'm sick of government compelling me to take care of other people's kids. the Frosts chose to have four children. i have one. personal economics was part of my decision to have just one child. what did families do before the nanny state? they took care of their own which, i'm betting for most, extended to neighbors and friends in their respective communities. oh, to go back to the good ol' days.
Eating (or drinking) out, that's a big piss of money away for a lot of folks struggling. I forgot all about the Toys R Us bonanza at Christmas. On one hand I know it's bad decisions that people make and on the other though the Federal Reserve has so destroyed the means and ability to save, that I am understanding of the phenomenon. I don't think the Fed's going anywhere soon, and expanding entitlements will only force the Fed to destroy the currency and savings more leading to a never ending spiral, so heartless is the way it's gotta be for now.
amen
Thank you rowdee and SmokinOps for correcting robin in her sequence of events. If the Frosts had got on a catastrophic health insurance plan and had a medical benefits ryder in their auto insurance plan BEFORE the accident happened, they would have been very nicely covered for the medical services that resulted from the accident. The insurers would not have been able to drop them when the accident happened if they were enrolled before. And with an HSA in place the high deductible insurance premium as of January 2004 ( ie. prior to the accident which occured in December 2004) would not have cost them $1200 per month. The whole purpose of HSA legislation was to make people self-sufficient - take care of the little things out of pocket for young families and have affordable health insurance to pay for the really big things - HSA's are tax deductible - it's a great win/win deal - you pay for the office visits whatever, it's a tax write off, and you get a cheap catastrophic insurance plan that covers catastrophes. The Frosts made a conscious choice in Jan/2004 not take advantage of the avenues that were available which other families used then and now.
And about insurance plans.....he was a small businessman. There are a couple of organizations [one being the National Federation of Independent Businessmen and another is something like National Association of Self Employed], at least, through which he could have obtained policies for his family thru said organizations rather than the local insurance salesman. I won't give 'antedotal' stories cause that is offensive to some, but the organization I was with had numerous options, i.e., size of deductibles, etc., and various family plans. When I signed up, it was just me, but they did quote me family rates, i.e., myself and 2 kids by way of example. I asked them because I had friends I was going to tell about this organization and the insurance. And it was nowhere near the costly figure I've seen tossed out around here.
Comments (152 - 176) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAnd then they live where? Jesus. I can't deal with the stupidity here anymore. What, do you all have mansions? They sell their house to pay medical bills, and then they LIVE FUCKING WHERE?
#112. To: robin (#60)
a. You have indeed agreed with and supported the GOP hate machine's fury against one family, you have even copied it. And, you have engaged in many angry posts that often attack the poster, tactics we are familiar with especially when combined with carbon copy GOP hate machine disinfo; leading more than one moderate poster here to speculate about your motives.
#113. To: kiki (#106)
whatever, yeah, of course they could have. we could all cram into the smallest space we can breath in and pour our money into the insurance industry, just in case.
#114. To: Mekons4 (#105)
#115. To: scrapper2, robin, Mekons3, aristeides (#112)
You 3 have taken turns insulting me left and right in a very mean spirited fashion - calling me unschooled, stupid, evil, dispicable, a mental case, on the Dark Side.
#116. To: Dakmar (#110)
#117. To: rowdee (#109)
to pay for the bad choices others make
#118. To: rowdee (#116)
#119. To: robin (#117)
Since when is a car accident a bad choice?
#120. To: robin (#117)
Since when is a car accident a bad choice?
#121. To: scrapper2 (#112)
The Frosts own their mess due to a series of irresponsible and negligent decisions.
#122. To: SmokinOPs (#119)
It isn't. The bad choice came before the accident when they didn't put a medical care addendum on their auto insurance policy. What's so hard to grasp about that?
#123. To: robin (#121)
#124. To: Dakmar (#120)
#125. To: robin (#117)
#126. To: Dakmar (#123)
#127. To: robin (#122)
(Edited)
That was no guarantee anyway! Insurance companies can decide not renew a policy. And they can deny coverage of certain areas even if you have it.
#128. To: rowdee (#125)
#129. To: robin (#124)
It's about being part of an advanced civilization, otherwise you will see families like the Frosts begin to fall apart and end up truly in poverty and receiving Medicare - at greater taxpayer expense.
#130. To: robin (#128)
(Edited)
And even if you have health insurance, they can refuse to cover necessary therapy and even life-saving procedures.
#131. To: scrapper2, robin (#28)
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#132. To: SmokinOPs (#127)
#133. To: robin (#126)
In utopia, it will be better. It will take a lot of planning though, keeping a civilization but not bothering anyone.
#134. To: SmokinOPs (#130)
#135. To: robin (#132)
#136. To: Dakmar (#129)
It's only at the extremes of the spectrum that people benefit.
#137. To: Dakmar (#135)
#138. To: IndieTX (#131)
#139. To: robin (#132)
Auto insurance companies can decide not to renew your policy, and so can health insurance companies.
#140. To: robin (#132)
(Edited)
The details of their car accident were not revealed to my knowledge, and not germane to the health insurance SHIPS subject.
#141. To: SmokinOPs (#140)
#142. To: IndieTX (#131)
(Edited)
WHY should the middle class have to self-insure themselves by putting up their entire life's work just in case and then be willing to spend every penny on to bankrubptcy so every big corporation gets their cut..? Do the rich folks do that? Do the politicians do that? I dodn't think so.
#143. To: robin (#141)
Well, if/when the Frosts are that broke they will be fully eligible for some form of Medicare. They are above the poverty line at the moment.
#144. To: robin (#128)
#145. To: SmokinOPs (#143)
I ain't talking about the "poverty line". Those things I mentioned are things families should be doing way, way, way above the poverty line.
#146. To: robin (#134)
#147. To: robin (#138)
Saving a family like the Frosts seems like a good way to spend tax money, compared to all the other ways it is usually spent.
#148. To: scrapper2 (#145)
#149. To: rowdee (#144)
#150. To: rowdee, robin, SmokinOps (#146)
Denied BEFORE or AFTER the accident?
#151. To: scrapper2 (#142)
.
.
.