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Neocon Nuttery
See other Neocon Nuttery Articles

Title: The Genesis of the Smears (JOHN COLE ASKS ABOUT FREEPER ICUWHATUDO)
Source: John Cole's Balloon Juice
URL Source: http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8849
Published: Oct 11, 2007
Author: John Cole
Post Date: 2007-10-11 14:47:37 by aristeides
Keywords: None
Views: 2932
Comments: 176

The Genesis of the Smears

By: John Cole October 11, 2007 at 12:53 pm

Appears to have been an aide to Mitch McConnell, according to the Communists at ThinkProgress:

ThinkProgress has obtained an email that congressional sources tell us was sent to reporters by Sen. McConnell’s communications director Don Stewart.

On Monday morning, Don Stewart sent an email with the following text to reporters:

Seen the latest blogswarm? Apparently, there’s more to the story on the kid (Graeme Frost) that did the Dems’ radio response on SCHIP. Bloggers have done a little digging and turned up that the Dad owns his own business (and the building it’s in), seems to have some commercial rental income and Graeme and a sister go to a private school that, according to its website, costs about $20k a year ‹for each kid‹ despite the news profiles reporting a family income of only $45k for the Frosts. Could the Dems really have done that bad of a job vetting this family?

In the email, Stewart attacks Democrats for allegedly doing a bad job “vetting this family.” That effort to blame Democrats for the smear campaign seems to have swayed some reporters, as CNN this morning claimed that the real story is that “the Democrats didn’t do as much of a vetting as they could have done.”

What is so surprising about all of this is not that all of the stuff in the leaked email has turned out to be completely false- that is just amusing. What is surprising is THE SPEED with which the “citizen journalists” ran with this, and echoed everything the leaked email did- just like good little soldiers. It was viral in no time.

I would not be surprised if Malkin, Limbaugh, and some folks at the NRO were not in the coterie of ‘reporters’ this was emailed to, nor would I be surprised if they got it from a friend of a friend (despite pretending to be different from the beltway crowd, all of the above are insiders to the Washington game, despite their protests otherwise). I’d like to know a little more about the freeper who ran with this in the first place, giving Michelle and others their “in” to run with the story without having to be the ones to take the blame for doing it. Who is icuwhatudo? What is her/his real identity? How is this person connected to the McConnell aide or the reporters who received this list. Or was it just a coincidence? If I prided myself in being a citizen journalist, those are the questions I would be asking.

And does anyone have any pictures of his living room?

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 172.

#2. To: All (#0)

from USAToday

Bloggers said the house was worth more than $400,000. It turns out it was bought for $55,000 in 1991 in a Baltimore neighborhood where "there were drug dealers and prostitutes on our street," Bonnie Frost said. Halsey Frost, a woodworker, did most of the renovations, which are "still not done," Bonnie said.

Bloggers said Graeme and Gemma go to private Park School, where tuition costs about $20,000. Graeme gets a scholarship, while Gemma's brain injuries were so severe that the city pays to educate her at a school for children with disabilities, the couple say.

From Daily Kos: They web published the home address of SCHIP family - what you can do

robin  posted on  2007-10-11   14:59:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

So let me get this straight:

a. Are the Frosts not owners of a greatly appreciated home ( let's set aside Bonnie's desire to have more renovations done and the fact that she has concrete counters that are as expensive as granite) on which they could have taken out a second mortgage for $20,0000 to fund a tax deductible Health Savings Account and to buy a high deductible health insurance policy for the past 4 years?

b. Are the Frosts not owners of commercial property worth $160,000 which brings in rental income, which also has enough cash equity in it to allow the Frosts to sell and make a profit to supplement their "meager" middle class life style?

c. If the Frosts had lived in a state that has a means test for folks that qualify for tapping SCHIP funds, do you believe the Frosts would have passed?

d. If you were running a private school in Baltimore with its well documented poverty and crime and visible minority children living in dire circumstances, would you give the Frosts' not 1 but 2 children access to the small number of free ride scholarships at your school? Are the Frosts' children living in "special challenging" circumstances that they are needy for a "leg up?"

e. Did Mr. and Mrs. Frost decide to thrust themselves and theiir family into the public stage or did the big bad reich wing evil bloggers seek the anonymous Frosts family and drag them out to front and center stage?

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-11   15:18:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

second mortgage for $20,0000 to fund a tax deductible Health Savings Account

Second mortgages come with a monthly payment, and you are assuming they could find private insurance. With such serious preexisting conditions it is very doubtful the Frosts would find a private health care provider for any price. And if they did, the insurance company probably wouldn't pay for all the necessary therapy. This happened to a middle-class family I know with one autistic child.

Scholarships are awarded for a variety of reasons. It sounds like the Frosts were grateful and willing to share how the SCHIP program helped them, but they are no longer giving interviews because of the GOP hate machine.

robin  posted on  2007-10-11   16:15:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

a. Second mortgages come with a monthly payment, and you are assuming they could find private insurance. With such serious preexisting conditions it is very doubtful the Frosts would find a private health care provider for any price. And if they did, the insurance company probably wouldn't pay for all the necessary therapy. This happened to a middle-class family I know with one autistic child.

b. Scholarships are awarded for a variety of reasons. It sounds like the Frosts were grateful and willing to share how the SCHIP program helped them, but they are no longer giving interviews because of the GOP hate machine.

a. I'm not sure what you are talking about. What "pre-existing" condition did any of the Frost Family members have prior to their auto accident that prevented Mr. and Mrs. Frost from buying a health insurance policy for the family? Once you have a health insurance policy in place, they can't refuse to cover medical issues that come as a result of a car accident. That's why responsible people buy health insurance policies especially when they head a family with minor dependents - to protevct against catastrophic health eventualities that would drain a family's assets otherwise.

Your friend's austic child is not relevant to the discussion about why I believe that the Frosts were irresponsible in the way they did not prepare their family in 2003 against an out-of-the-blue health emergency, which unfortunately subsequently happened.

Monthly payments for second mortgages that amount to $20,000 are peanuts - I've been there so I know of what I speak - in 2003, the Frosts would have been given an excellent rate because of the equity in their highly appreciated residence as well as the equity they had in their commercial property.

b. Scholarships in private schools are generally given to minority children living in dire straights who deserve a leg up - basically scholarships represent a way for a private school to "give back" to their community to help disadvantaged children in their midst whose financial circumstances are very different from their full pay student parent body. The Frosts should have better scruples than to apply for this type of scholarship because it deprived 2 children who were truly needy.

As for why the Frosts will no longer give interviews - they thrust themselves into the kitchen but they did not like the fires. Maybe they should have thought about the risks of grabbing a microphone and taking center stage before they did what they did. Hindset is 20/20 vision.

With regards to the "GOP hate machine" - oh yes, righhhht, for sure, most definitely - the "problem" is the GOP not the Dems who used a child to promote their agenda and it's not the Frosts who scammed a system meant for impoverished children because they consciously took risks with their children's future and lost when Fate stepped in.

Lalalalalala...

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-11   20:13:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The idea that when someone doesn't have health insurance before a catastrophic illness that they are then doomed for the rest of their lives, unable to ever acquire any, is not a very productive notion for society as a whole. It certainly is not compassionate.

Many Americans had health insurance while employed, but after losing their jobs, and COBRA runs out, they are without any, until they find another employer who has good health insurance benefits.

The point of my friend's experience with an autistic child was to show you that even with current health insurance, companies refuse claims regularly. As was also explained well in the film, "The Rainmaker".
Government intervention has its place. Taking the time to sue a health insurance company often ends up with a dead patient before a positive answer is given. Our nation's current health care system is inadequate and getting worse due to rising unemployment due to offshoring and outsourcing.

As I already posted, there are all kinds of scholarships.

You are very eager to defend the GOP hate machine. Why is that?

Health care as enjoyed in Europe is quite good and economically efficient.

robin  posted on  2007-10-11   20:29:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

COBRA

And who can afford COBRA?

Zipporah  posted on  2007-10-11   20:35:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

And who can afford COBRA?

No one unemployed, that's for sure.

The deceptiveness going on by a certain poster got on my last nerve. He's just spewing the Bush/Rush line, amplifying the hate machine's usual spew.

We have a society for one reason: to make life better for our citizens. We are the only country left in the industrialized world that doesn't have national health care. We may have the BEST health care, but if 40 percent of your citizens can't afford it, what the hell is the value of that?

Scrapper's constant drumbeat to demonize the victim strikes me as disingenuous. He's spinning like crazy. He seems to know what the family paid for its counter tops. My brother, just as an example, gets free Vermont marble from a quarry. They end up with chunks they can't sell wholesale, they're too small, so they are happy to have him tote them away in his F-250. He uses these scraps to put together patios, walkways, counter tops, etc. To claim they cost $20,000 is just ignorant and SPINNING. He's a GOP mole, IMO. I wonder how much he gets paid. As most of you know, the GOP pays people to haunt various political sites to spew the GOP line. He's here an awful lot.

Mekons4  posted on  2007-10-11   22:31:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

He's a GOP mole, IMO. I wonder how much he gets paid. As most of you know, the GOP pays people to haunt various political sites to spew the GOP line. He's here an awful lot.

He posts the same kind of lengthy posts with more information than you would think a solitary individual could come up with in the short time between his posts that BAC did.

In BAC's case, I strongly suspected some organization was providing him with his posts.

aristeides  posted on  2007-10-12   13:55:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2007-10-12   16:00:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I can understand disagreeing on an issue like health care.

I can't understand joining in the attack on the Frosts.

aristeides  posted on  2007-10-12   16:05:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2007-10-12   16:14:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

But you know, this is a funny place. Once you get stuck in a position or an opinion, it's hard to back off of it. That's what I meant by "nobody apologizes". I think in this case Scrapper2 jumped to a conclusion and has been fighting a rear-guard action to defend that original leap of faith, and IMO, beyond the point where it's become indefensible.

Ghost and christine, thanks for votes of confidence to assure everyone that I'm not a mole. Sheeesh! Is that the latest insult that the 3 Amigos for a Utopian Leninesque World have come up with today? - my goodness, what next? - wild imaginations, they are not short of, I have to give praise where praise is due.

But ghost I'm not having any second thoughts about my position on the Frost parents. IMO, they were negligent in not providing a basic high deductible insurance policy to protect their family against catastrophic events and they had the assets ( 2 properties) and the means - they could have gotten a real sweet deal for a line of credit of $5000 to start up in HSA in January, 2004 so as to get a cheaper rate on the high deductible insurance premium - and HSA's are tax deductible, a win/win.

But they chose to throw caution to the wind - they rolled the dice and they lost and lost terribly. They got lucky because Maryland's laws were lax and a means test was not required to access SCHIP funds. If they resided in other states that require means testing [ I think means testing should be a requirement in all states] the Frosts would have failed. There's no doubt about it - they had too many assets. But what is unforgiveable in my mind is that the Frost parents let their child be used as a pawn by the Dem Party to promote a political agenda. The Frosts knowingly let their son be USED by political hacks exposing him to public scrutiny. Would you do that to your kid?

With regards to the reich wingers going after the Frosts - I don't defend their tactics - I never have - but how does Michele Malkin's distasteful conduct excuse the Frosts' negligence and irresponsible behavior and bad decisions? It doesn't and you know it and aristeides and robin and Mekons4 know it too - that's why those 3 are trying so hard to kick up dust on the issue and blame the evil reich wingers for this very sad situation. The reich winger party partisans are doing exactly what the left winger partisans would do if the situation were reversed, which is take advantage of opportunity when it presents itself and to go for the jugular. The Frosts parents chose to come out of the shadows - the reich wingers did not pull them out in front of the microphones - as soon as the Frosts consented to go public,they became fair game.

Consider that if there had been no glaring irregularities in the Frost Family story, the Dems would have been successful in using a little boy ( how is that noble?) to promote their expanded SCHIP platform agenda - ie. to buy votes of middle class families earning up to $83,000 in the run up to the 2008 election. Come on - you think the Dem Party is wanting to expand SCHIP out of the goodness of their hearts or because they love the children more the the GOP? I don't think so. As Cyni pointed out elsewhere - both parties use and abuse sheeple individuals to get elected, to get more power and then the sheeple are discarded and forgotten like yesterday's newspaper.

You're a Ron Paul supporter, yes? Ron Paul voted "no" to expand the SCHIP program. You think Ron Paul who is an obgyn hates kids and that's why he voted "no"? No it's more likely that he knows how the intent of the SCHIP 1997 legislation has been totally lost/ misused - SCHIP was set up by bipartisan votes to specifically help impoverished children of indigent families. States like Maryland don't even do a means test before they shell out $ - Baltimore has countless #'s of impoverished children but the Maryland officials gave $ designated for impoverished children in the state to the Frosts who own 2 properties and an SUV - does that seem right? - some states have even given SCHIP money holus bolus to adults - does that seem right? I read recently that one of the big cheerleaders for expanded SCHIP is the Governor of New Jersey - dumteedum -my taxpayer antennae go up whenever I hear that a NJ politician is a booster for an entitlement program.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-12   20:15:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

You have indeed agreed with and supported the GOP hate machine's fury against one family, you have even copied it. And, you have engaged in many angry posts that often attack the poster, tactics we are familiar with especially when combined with carbon copy GOP hate machine disinfo; leading more than one moderate poster here to speculate about your motives.

SCHIP allows up to $83,000, but the Frosts, a family of 6, make $45,000 - $50,000.

The Frost family was not negligent.

The Frosts also said that they recently have been denied private insurance coverage three times because of pre-existing medical conditions. According to the Times, "what on the surface appears to be yet another partisan feud ... actually cuts to the most substantive debate around SCHIP" -- that of eligibility levels.

Ron Paul is also pro-life, yet many of his supporters are not. I doubt that Ron Paul is repeating the GOP hate machine disinfo spin.

robin  posted on  2007-10-12   20:59:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

a. You have indeed agreed with and supported the GOP hate machine's fury against one family, you have even copied it. And, you have engaged in many angry posts that often attack the poster, tactics we are familiar with especially when combined with carbon copy GOP hate machine disinfo; leading more than one moderate poster here to speculate about your motives.

b. The Frosts also said that they recently have been denied private insurance coverage three times because of pre-existing medical conditions.

a. You are into tall grass territory with your latest accusations. I used to think you were better than this, robin. Fyi, I have ZERO association with any reichwing group or blog and I don't belong to any GOP secret forum poster aggitator club. I haven't even looked at Malkin's blog to read what she said or didn't say and I don't listen to fat Pills Limbaugh that's for sure - you otoh seem obsessed with everything they say or write - which seems odd to me frankly.

As for attack tactics on other posters here - give me a friggin' break - that's a lie - I admit I frequently use irony, humor to poke fun at silly nonsense but you and Mekons and aristeides have been nothing short of MALICIOUS to me - you 3 have taken turns insulting me left and right in a very mean spirited fashion - calling me unschooled, stupid, evil, dispicable, a mental case, on the Dark Side. The absolute kicker has been the latest whisper campaign you and your compadres have started - that I'm a "mole." As for your unsubstantiated observation that " leading more than one moderate poster here to speculate about your motives." Yes, right, let me guess - those more than one "moderate posters" are you and Mekons4 and aristeides - the 3 Amigos of Bolshevik Utopia Land.

Perhaps you think it's been easy to stick to my convictions these past few days with the pack of you trying to bring me to heel with your uncivil tongues but fyi - not that you care - it has not. But I have endured this gang up on one because I know I'm right. And I'm not going to allow myself to be brow beaten to say otherwise. This is a political discussion board to celebrate free and independent thinking and I refuse to be cowed into groupthink

The Frosts own their mess due to a series of irresponsible and negligent decisions. The reichwingers' tactics are distasteful but they did not get into the picture until the Frosts came out of the shadows to center stage and in front of the microphone. The Dem Party hacks used this child for a photo op so they are no more "pro-children" than the GOP are. Cynicom and rowdee are right when they say both political parties are looking for an angle to get into power or to stay in power.

b. You keep flogging this story about the Frosts being denied insurance because of pre-existing brain injuries as though that's supposed to rehabilitate them into perfect parents who adequately protected their dependents in 2004...it doesn't. This late 2007.

If anything this proves how the negligent and irresponsible decisions of Mr. and Mrs Frost in 2004 - by choosing not to establish an HSA and to buy a high deductible catastrophic insurance plan and a medical benefit ryder on their auto insurance - has created difficulties today. This is what happens when you have "other priorities" and you have a family and through caution to the winds.

Insurance companies are not going to take on this family of accident victims without charging a high premium - at least initially -to compensate for the projected costs of the long term medical care. They are going to pay a high premium now because of their negligent decision 4 years ago, but they will get insurance.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-12   23:43:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The Frosts own their mess due to a series of irresponsible and negligent decisions.

So being in a car accident and being denied health insurance 3 times is irresponsible? Working, paying taxes, trying to start a business, paying your bills for six people is negligent?

You really need to try reading some of the obnoxious remarks you've made to the reasonable and moderate posters who tried to help you see this subject from the facts.

That you were mistaken as a member of the GOP hate machine by aristeides should tell you how far you have drifted from civil and reasonable discourse.

robin  posted on  2007-10-12   23:59:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

So being in a car accident and being denied health insurance 3 times is irresponsible? Working, paying taxes, trying to start a business, paying your bills for six people is negligent?

You really need to try reading some of the obnoxious remarks you've made to the reasonable and moderate posters who tried to help you see this subject from the facts.

That you were mistaken as a member of the GOP hate machine by aristeides should tell you how far you have drifted from civil and reasonable discourse.

a. They had the financial where-with-all to get proper health and car insurance way before the accident occurred in December 2004. They owned 2 properties and an SUV. Do you own 2 properties? Do you have health insurance?

b. Thanks for your lecture about what constitutes "moderate and reasonable" posters in your mind and how "obnoxious" and thick I have been not to see the light from "facts" thatmoderate posters have tried to show me.

Golly gee and what a surprise that you think aristeides is moderate. And probably Mekons4 would be another one who fits your definition of moderate and reasonable, no doubt. There has not been any moderation in your uncivil behavior and your gang dump on me right from the get go both with frontal attacks and with back-stabbing tactics behind my back - the latest being propagating innuendo that I'm a "mole"??? - does that sound like temperate and reasonable behavior to you?

You 3 have behaved like net bullies, whose noses have been pushed way out of joint because I neither admire the Frost parents for their reckless decisions nor do I believe that universal health care is good.

Probably the latter irritates you even more than the former because the 3 of you desperately are promoting socialized medicine for your own personal reasons and I doubt that those reasons have anything to do with what's in the best interest of Americans - universal health care is VA care - and you and your compadres were as outraged as I was with the VA health care system not too long ago so why are you wishing that system for all Americans today?

You see for yourself the track record the gubment has re:delivering health care to veterans and seniors and the poor you think it will be suddenly improved and more efficient by adding a couple of hundred million more people to the mix?

Also I have pointed out to you 3 the deficiencies of the universal health care in other countries - Canadians are suing their government for unconsciably long delays and no choice of medical service alternatives - in the UK babies are dying because of deficient care and facilities, in France men are dying of prostrate cancer and women of breast cancer at much higher rates than here and still in the face of all these statistics and data I have provided - you march on, talking about the wonders of pre-natal checks for pregnancy. It's always pre-natal pre-natal pre-natal for you. Hello? There's more to health care services than pre-natal visits and I have shown you that in the other areas of health, universal health care is mediocre at best. Socialized medicine is good until you get seriously ill.

It's you 3 who are oblivious to "the facts" not me and it has angered you even more that I persist with data that defuses your sweet anecdotal empty comments - "well I lived in the UK for 2 years a long time ago and I did not think it was bad." You call that a "fact?" Then you pull out those life expectancy rates as your ace card and when I provide information that suggests that apples and oranges are being compared, you ignore the information I provide and talk about how illegals and everyone deserve to have pre-natal checks to prevent "basket cases" to be born - you think I should pay attention to that airy fairy nonsensical prattle?

You don't have any interest in "facts" - you have relied primarily on gratuitous emotional heart string fudging of details both about universal health care as well as about the Frosts' screwed up decision making.

The Frosts made irresponsible decisions in the year BEFORE the accident as well as afterwards when they agreed to let the kid be used as a pawn by the Dem Party machinery - the Frosts are in the mess they are in because of the adult members' foolish choices. That you are blind to this is your problem and your perogative but what makes you think you have the right to treat me as your whipping boy just because I don't share your opinion and hold them on high as some example of wonderful responsible parenting and their situation is all because of the evil reich wingers. Mr and Mrs Frost "own" their choices - no one made those decisions for them and I do not respect or admire them for having taken the courses they did.

I'm done wasting my energy talking to you and your 2 pals about the Frosts. And other posters want to move on to other news items.

scrapper2  posted on  2007-10-13   2:11:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

It's the mindset big swing from far right/REP to far left/DEM. With every far move either way, Americans give up more personal choices, and the government takes them willingly. Look how a few here at 4um have slowly slid toward pure socialism.

Where in my "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" do I have to dig into my pocket to fund public housing, healthcare, transportation, education?

Kamala  posted on  2007-10-13   6:39:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Look how a few here at 4um have slowly slid toward pure socialism.

No it's not that there are those on 4 that are in favor of socialism..it's that the system we're NOW under which is not Constitutional has brought us to this place.. read what Ron Paul said about the medical system as it is now in his interview posted by Arator.. what he is advocating is what we should have and will have IF he's elected.. but as it stands now.. medical care in this country is nothing more than corporatism .. and many dont have adequate care nor adequate insurance or ANY insurance for that matter..

Zipporah  posted on  2007-10-13   12:26:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I never said that what we have now, I like. Its not a freemarket. More and more doctors are completely opting out of HMO's etc. They are able then to provide a much more competive price and care.

Kamala  posted on  2007-10-13   12:41:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Oh I didnt imply that you did.. I was making a statement regarding youre assertion that some on 4 are defending socialism.. which isnt the case ..what I was saying is that the system we're now under is the problem.. and b/c of that system there are only so many options available.. we cannot have it both ways either we make medical care available to all.. the system is rigged for insurance companies period. Either provide care at the same cost for ALL.. insurance companies are billed for much less than those who pay for their own care.. OR scrap it.

Zipporah  posted on  2007-10-13   12:55:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Oh, I agree there. The gov/corps have manipulated the whole system. If I was a practicing doc. I would take no insurance or government programs.

Government healthcare is not the answer. Where is America going to come up with at least 150 billion a year to fund this?

Kamala  posted on  2007-10-13   13:00:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Government healthcare is not the answer. Where is America going to come up with at least 150 billion a year to fund this?

..leave Iraq for one we could well afford it that way.. Drs for the most part have little they can do ..either they accept government payments or go out of business.. people just plain cannot afford out of pocket medical care.. its the facts.. the majority just cant do it.. not because they are irresponsible or because they spend their money on going out to restaurants or the other ridiculous assertions made on this thread..the facts are costs are off the charts.. the average person is majorly fucked if they have any illness that is more than a headcold.

Zipporah  posted on  2007-10-13   13:08:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

leave Iraq for one we could well afford it that way

Ahhh, no. America hasn't even started to pay for Iraq yet. America is still running a 400 billion a year deficit. America owes 9 trillion dollars. Even if we cut, and ran a yearly surplus, we would have to pay back the debt. Foreigners now own around 5 trillion of our debt.

Kamala  posted on  2007-10-13   13:18:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

..there is not a damned thing we can do as it is.. being idealistic is not a bad thing..but its not reality, I believe in the Constitution and everything it stands for but we're not living under that system now.. so we have to find a way to make it ..under the present system.. that people can get the care they need.. at a reasonable cost ..whether it be universal health care or whatever for what is happening now.. the rich and the poor get care the middle class is screwed.

Zipporah  posted on  2007-10-13   13:26:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Pre-payment doctors here in Austin - good site -

www.conciergefamilymedicine.com/Nav/whatframe.html

Lod  posted on  2007-10-13   13:43:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Yep. While I don't recall these doctors being in the NA article, this is the type of deal the article was about. IIRC, most of the NA article focused on Kentucky and Tennessee.

Another way that a lot of medical could be handled is rather than using the ER, which is expensive, and clogged up, would be to set up store front walk in clinics staffed/manned by physicians aides and/or nurse practicioners. It wouldn't be necessary to have $50 - $75 office visits. And even if it was, that doesn't come anywhere hear what people bitch about the insurance premium costs as being for a month.

While we tend to think of ER as for life-saving or trama situations/conditions, it seems like more and more citizens and aliens use it for daily doctors' office type things. And at that, a doctor isn't needed to remove a splinter, or clean wax out of an ear, or burn off a wart, or look at a rash, or swab a throat for culturing, etc. These could be a part of the public health system. The ER big bucks can fund sidewalk clinics or even the mobile vans which are popping up in some cities in ghettos and slums and skid rows.

Have some of these staffed by doctors or nurses or technicians as a way to offset the big bucks used to pay for their education.

Hell, out here in boondocks, the district's hhs provides shots--they will even send the nurse to your home. We did it one year because Dad was having a hard time walking.....and I'll be doing it again because he is getting hard to even stand up.

Yes, things need to be brought back to realistic porportions. Earlier I was looking around on the net, and was reading an article about how good ol' socialized Sweden has found themselves becoming bankrupt due to medical costs; and they've already done a privatization experiment and will be returning their 6 big hospitals over to the private sector--because they do it so much cheaper.

It wasn't all that long ago I was reading an article about Sweden, in which it was all 'glowy' about socialized medicine and the free child care. And then you start finding out the little details--they get to tell you where you child will be put or go. Naturally, this brings to mind good ol mother Russia and her idea of she will test the children and decide what professions and/or schooling they will have.

And you get a tax table, as best they can compare, and look at all the european nations and their taxes--not just income, whether personal or corporate, but look at the VAT taxes! The article I mentioned reading not all that long ago indicated that Swedes were taxed at about 60%. I do believe it was Diane Feinstein that thought taxes on the sheeple in the range of 90% wouldn't be a bad thing.

rowdee  posted on  2007-10-13   15:39:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Earlier I was looking around on the net, and was reading an article about how good ol' socialized Sweden has found themselves becoming bankrupt due to medical costs; and they've already done a privatization experiment and will be returning their 6 big hospitals over to the private sector--because they do it so much cheaper.

If govs would just stop their meddling and "regulating," things could get better.

Lod  posted on  2007-10-13   15:48:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

If govs would just stop their meddling and "regulating," things could get better.

I wouldn't argue against your statement for nothing. Cheers...

rowdee  posted on  2007-10-13   16:00:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#173. To: rowdee. freedom lovers (#172)

Like Dr.Paul says, "Freedom is popular." And freedom from govs is right at the top of our list. That's why our country was founded, for crying out loud - and look at us now...

Cheers up your way.

Lod  posted on  2007-10-13 16:23:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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