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Title: The Genesis of the Smears (JOHN COLE ASKS ABOUT FREEPER ICUWHATUDO)
Source:
John Cole's Balloon Juice
URL Source: http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8849
Published: Oct 11, 2007
Author: John Cole
Post Date: 2007-10-11 14:47:37 by aristeides
Keywords: None
Views: 3047
Comments: 176
The Genesis of the Smears By: John Cole October 11, 2007 at 12:53 pm Appears to have been an aide to Mitch McConnell, according to the Communists at ThinkProgress: On Monday morning, Don Stewart sent an email with the following text to reporters: Seen the latest blogswarm? Apparently, there’s more to the story on the kid (Graeme Frost) that did the Dems’ radio response on SCHIP. Bloggers have done a little digging and turned up that the Dad owns his own business (and the building it’s in), seems to have some commercial rental income and Graeme and a sister go to a private school that, according to its website, costs about $20k a year ‹for each kid‹ despite the news profiles reporting a family income of only $45k for the Frosts. Could the Dems really have done that bad of a job vetting this family? In the email, Stewart attacks Democrats for allegedly doing a bad job “vetting this family.” That effort to blame Democrats for the smear campaign seems to have swayed some reporters, as CNN this morning claimed that the real story is that “the Democrats didn’t do as much of a vetting as they could have done.” What is so surprising about all of this is not that all of the stuff in the leaked email has turned out to be completely false- that is just amusing. What is surprising is THE SPEED with which the “citizen journalists” ran with this, and echoed everything the leaked email did- just like good little soldiers. It was viral in no time. I would not be surprised if Malkin, Limbaugh, and some folks at the NRO were not in the coterie of ‘reporters’ this was emailed to, nor would I be surprised if they got it from a friend of a friend (despite pretending to be different from the beltway crowd, all of the above are insiders to the Washington game, despite their protests otherwise). I’d like to know a little more about the freeper who ran with this in the first place, giving Michelle and others their “in” to run with the story without having to be the ones to take the blame for doing it. Who is icuwhatudo? What is her/his real identity? How is this person connected to the McConnell aide or the reporters who received this list. Or was it just a coincidence? If I prided myself in being a citizen journalist, those are the questions I would be asking. And does anyone have any pictures of his living room?
ThinkProgress has obtained an email that congressional sources tell us was sent to reporters by Sen. McConnell’s communications director Don Stewart.
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#136. To: Dakmar (#129)
I agree.
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I'll book my Gulf cruise now then.
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What happened to the good old days when a doctor came to your farm and you paid him with eggs?! I dunno, the system is in many ways corrupt. Saving a family like the Frosts seems like a good way to spend tax money, compared to all the other ways it is usually spent. Ron Paul talks about weaning Americans from nanny govt, but I don't think it will happen entirely ever; even when he is elected.
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Not once you are actually drawing a claim. If you buy $500,000 of auto medical they are on the hook for $500,000 from the claimable incident whether or not you continue your coverage with them. If insurance was like you make it out to be, a homeowner who has his house burn could just not have his insurance policy renewed and he would have to rebuild on his own. Yes they can cancel before any future incidents happen but they still have to pay for the burned down house.
Remember, the Frosts are just one family caught between being ineligible for Medicare and being able to afford or obtain health insurance. As thieving as the gubmint is, and as nasty as the corporatism and bankster inflation cartel is, I can tell you that many, many of those people are living beyond their means. Now they might have to move to a cheap area like Western Tennessee and live in a 1,200 sq. ft house, cut coupons, never eat out, pay cash for used cars, watch a 20 inch TV with no cable (or gasp, no TV at all), no 30 pack of Miller every week, and you might actually have to cook the kids breakfast instead of the 5 dollar box of Fruit Loops, and pack them sandwiches and a Thermos of soup for lunch, but if you aren't already doing those things, you ain't broke enough to get sympathy from me.
Well, if/when the Frosts are that broke they will be fully eligible for some form of Medicare. They are above the poverty line at the moment.
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Where are you coming from? Middle class people - ones whom I know personally and myself included - don't "put up their entire life's work just in case and then be willing to spend every penny on to bankrubptcy so every big corporation gets their cut." The whole point of insurance to protect oneself and one's assets against catastrophic events so as not to go broke. If you are talking about health/auto/propertyinsurance premiums everyone I know pays a monthly premium and that's it. I've never heard of anyone doing what you are suggesting to pay for health/property/auto insurance. The monthly costs are hardly at the horrendus level you imply. Don't you have insurance? You sound like you don't have a handle on premium charges. If you want to protect yourself, your family, and your assets in this nation as well as most Western nations you need insurance. I did not implement the system, I just play by the rules handed down to me through various scrapper generations. The poor typically don't need insurance apart from auto because they don't own property and they get gubment health care. The rich are insured up to the top limits in each category with some type of umbrella insurance on top of everything- if you think Bill Gates, Tony Blair, Angela Merkel have no insurance plans you are deluding yourself.
I ain't talking about the "poverty line". Those things I mentioned are things families should be doing way, way, way above the poverty line. If I hadn't spent so much of my life in rural Michigan, watching the broke asses' cars sit in the bar parking lot three nights a week and seeing them buying a pack of Winstons every morning at the gas station, and the pure garbage food at the grocery store, I would probably have a big liberal heart. But I've lived long among the rural poor, and many ain't really poor, they just suck with money.
Puleeze, robin,,,,,,the world wasn't against these folks. Just the 'evil'
GOPers are. Doncha know, they sacrifice their babies to Molech or is that
Magog.....the first child and the third. The second is kept as a trophy of
their prowess in the bedroom and for appearances sake, at the least. The
last child is always left in some parish.....oops, maybe shouldn't say
that.....left somewhere for use at the Bohemian Grove or some other god-
forsaken place for ritualistic abuse. Or is that to be used for perverts
pleasure. Go ahead and make all/every excuse...all the
wouldas/coulda/shouldas.....it is all hindsight excuses or enabling of the
next batch of bad decision makers. And why are they having 4 kids? Why
isn't gubmint demanding a replacement policy.....we don't have the resources,
neither monetarily or natural, to take care of all these peoples. And what
happened to that car in every garage? The chicken in every pot? Or the
amerikan dream of a house? I think every family should have a cat; why
isn't gubmint taking care of the cat population in that way? Maybe dogs should
be included here, too. I think all kids should be able to wear Jordain Air
shoes, or whatever they're called.....so they don't feel bad to see their
friends in them........should gubmint provide these, too? And I can't help
but laugh......'government-funded'.........where is that damned money tree at?
If everyone was guaranteed a car, we wouldn't have car jackings, or grand
theft auto..and there could be tons of jobs for building these cars. Where's
gubmint on this? I can't wait til the demand for the fast food cops comes
out in force........they are bad for your health, and with health costs what
they are, they have to be made out of toofuu or whatever that crap is. Cows
milk = bad; soy is good. And then what happens when it is decided that
babies with acid reflux problems are too costly to the system; have to be in
it too long; so we just won't cover that expense any more. I believe I
read on one of these threads that the S CHIP (gads, that name is enough to
make one ill) covers to age 26. I guess that is so that those who believe they
are infallible and death or major problems will never affect them and so they
don't get insurance get covered. 26 is a 'kid'? This has all been a dog
and pony show. Just goes along with all this past years' electioneering
gimmicks. The eye is being kept off something...... Its all disjointed
(this response), but what the hell........who cares........its coming; and
there will never be a turning back. If anyone thinks that incrementalism isn't
alive and well had better change their meds. Incrementalism only works when it
is going towards socialism/communism. RIP, amerikan republic.
According to statistics I have read the middle class find $ for eating out and Christmas gift shopping but those are higher priorities than health care insurance. "Almost the entire increase in people without health insurance from 2005 to 2006 took place in families with incomes above $50,000 (median family income is $48,200)...Families with incomes above $50,000 a year account for an improbable 93% of the 2.1 million increase in the uninsured, and now represent 38% of the total uninsured in the United States. Two-thirds of the 2005-2006 increase was actually in families with incomes above $75,000. How far up into the middle class these incomes put someone obviously depends on where they live. In Manhattan, $75,000 a year is not a lot of money (consider that just parking your car, if you are foolish enough to own one, can cost $500 a month). In Topeka, Kansas, however, it’s upper middle class....In 2005, Americans spent about $250 billion out of pocket on health services and had another $190 billion taken out of their paychecks for health insurance premiums. In 2005, we spent a comparable amount, about $440 billion, on Christmas presents and about $470 billion on restaurants and fast food. How important is health coverage for middle and upper middle class households in their mix of spending priorities? ...
Denied BEFORE or AFTER the accident?
comparatively speaking, yes, but multiply a family like the Frosts by 100s of thousands of them. do you want to be responsible for all of them? i don't. no one ever said life is fair. there have been and always will be the haves and have nots. i'm sick of government compelling me to take care of other people's kids. the Frosts chose to have four children. i have one. personal economics was part of my decision to have just one child. what did families do before the nanny state? they took care of their own which, i'm betting for most, extended to neighbors and friends in their respective communities. oh, to go back to the good ol' days.
Eating (or drinking) out, that's a big piss of money away for a lot of folks struggling. I forgot all about the Toys R Us bonanza at Christmas. On one hand I know it's bad decisions that people make and on the other though the Federal Reserve has so destroyed the means and ability to save, that I am understanding of the phenomenon. I don't think the Fed's going anywhere soon, and expanding entitlements will only force the Fed to destroy the currency and savings more leading to a never ending spiral, so heartless is the way it's gotta be for now.
amen
Thank you rowdee and SmokinOps for correcting robin in her sequence of events. If the Frosts had got on a catastrophic health insurance plan and had a medical benefits ryder in their auto insurance plan BEFORE the accident happened, they would have been very nicely covered for the medical services that resulted from the accident. The insurers would not have been able to drop them when the accident happened if they were enrolled before. And with an HSA in place the high deductible insurance premium as of January 2004 ( ie. prior to the accident which occured in December 2004) would not have cost them $1200 per month. The whole purpose of HSA legislation was to make people self-sufficient - take care of the little things out of pocket for young families and have affordable health insurance to pay for the really big things - HSA's are tax deductible - it's a great win/win deal - you pay for the office visits whatever, it's a tax write off, and you get a cheap catastrophic insurance plan that covers catastrophes. The Frosts made a conscious choice in Jan/2004 not take advantage of the avenues that were available which other families used then and now.
And about insurance plans.....he was a small businessman. There are a couple of organizations [one being the National Federation of Independent Businessmen and another is something like National Association of Self Employed], at least, through which he could have obtained policies for his family thru said organizations rather than the local insurance salesman. I won't give 'antedotal' stories cause that is offensive to some, but the organization I was with had numerous options, i.e., size of deductibles, etc., and various family plans. When I signed up, it was just me, but they did quote me family rates, i.e., myself and 2 kids by way of example. I asked them because I had friends I was going to tell about this organization and the insurance. And it was nowhere near the costly figure I've seen tossed out around here.
You really need to try reading some of the obnoxious remarks you've made to the reasonable and moderate posters who tried to help you see this subject from the facts. That you were mistaken as a member of the GOP hate machine by aristeides should tell you how far you have drifted from civil and reasonable discourse. a. They had the financial where-with-all to get proper health and car insurance way before the accident occurred in December 2004. They owned 2 properties and an SUV. Do you own 2 properties? Do you have health insurance? b. Thanks for your lecture about what constitutes "moderate and reasonable" posters in your mind and how "obnoxious" and thick I have been not to see the light from "facts" thatmoderate posters have tried to show me. Golly gee and what a surprise that you think aristeides is moderate. And probably Mekons4 would be another one who fits your definition of moderate and reasonable, no doubt. There has not been any moderation in your uncivil behavior and your gang dump on me right from the get go both with frontal attacks and with back-stabbing tactics behind my back - the latest being propagating innuendo that I'm a "mole"??? - does that sound like temperate and reasonable behavior to you? You 3 have behaved like net bullies, whose noses have been pushed way out of joint because I neither admire the Frost parents for their reckless decisions nor do I believe that universal health care is good. Probably the latter irritates you even more than the former because the 3 of you desperately are promoting socialized medicine for your own personal reasons and I doubt that those reasons have anything to do with what's in the best interest of Americans - universal health care is VA care - and you and your compadres were as outraged as I was with the VA health care system not too long ago so why are you wishing that system for all Americans today? You see for yourself the track record the gubment has re:delivering health care to veterans and seniors and the poor you think it will be suddenly improved and more efficient by adding a couple of hundred million more people to the mix? Also I have pointed out to you 3 the deficiencies of the universal health care in other countries - Canadians are suing their government for unconsciably long delays and no choice of medical service alternatives - in the UK babies are dying because of deficient care and facilities, in France men are dying of prostrate cancer and women of breast cancer at much higher rates than here and still in the face of all these statistics and data I have provided - you march on, talking about the wonders of pre-natal checks for pregnancy. It's always pre-natal pre-natal pre-natal for you. Hello? There's more to health care services than pre-natal visits and I have shown you that in the other areas of health, universal health care is mediocre at best. Socialized medicine is good until you get seriously ill. It's you 3 who are oblivious to "the facts" not me and it has angered you even more that I persist with data that defuses your sweet anecdotal empty comments - "well I lived in the UK for 2 years a long time ago and I did not think it was bad." You call that a "fact?" Then you pull out those life expectancy rates as your ace card and when I provide information that suggests that apples and oranges are being compared, you ignore the information I provide and talk about how illegals and everyone deserve to have pre-natal checks to prevent "basket cases" to be born - you think I should pay attention to that airy fairy nonsensical prattle? You don't have any interest in "facts" - you have relied primarily on gratuitous emotional heart string fudging of details both about universal health care as well as about the Frosts' screwed up decision making. The Frosts made irresponsible decisions in the year BEFORE the accident as well as afterwards when they agreed to let the kid be used as a pawn by the Dem Party machinery - the Frosts are in the mess they are in because of the adult members' foolish choices. That you are blind to this is your problem and your perogative but what makes you think you have the right to treat me as your whipping boy just because I don't share your opinion and hold them on high as some example of wonderful responsible parenting and their situation is all because of the evil reich wingers. Mr and Mrs Frost "own" their choices - no one made those decisions for them and I do not respect or admire them for having taken the courses they did. I'm done wasting my energy talking to you and your 2 pals about the Frosts. And other posters want to move on to other news items.
It's the mindset big swing from far right/REP to far left/DEM. With every far move either way, Americans give up more personal choices, and the government takes them willingly. Look how a few here at 4um have slowly slid toward pure socialism. Where in my "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" do I have to dig into my pocket to fund public housing, healthcare, transportation, education?
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
I stated quite clearly, more than once on this thread, that they could not afford before and were denied after. But I also pointed out that before long it would have made no difference. That private health insurance companies, like auto insurance companies can refuse to renew policies. And they can refuse certain treatments while you have coverage. That is what "Sicko" and "The Rainmaker" are about. Having two children or one child refused health insurance makes little difference, the entire health care system is bent on making profit by denying claims. Would you prefer they make that families with children who require health care to become wards of the court? Should they just dump them onto the system entire and go on a cruise? No, of course not. That would cost the taxpayer much more and then the GOP hate machine would be correct in sliming them. In countries with universal health care, like all of Europe, there are price caps to prevent price gouging by Big Pharma and hospitals and no one is denied health care. At the link I gave you yesterday shows, per capita, the US spends far more on health care than the best health care in Europe. Americans without health insurance end up in the expensive Emergency Room where the taxpayer picks up the tab. Preventative care is much less expensive. Would you prefer families who are not poor enough or old enough for Medicare and Social Security to become poor enough so they are eligible? That would cost the taxpayer much more. SCHIPS was designed to stop that from happening, to stop working families from dropping below the poverty line where they can no longer pull themselves up. If the Frosts sold all their assets and relocated and found new jobs, that would not solve the health care dilemma they are in. Their two badly injured children would still be without adequate health coverage. That's what the health care system has become in this country and the health insurance companies like it that way.
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No it's not that there are those on 4 that are in favor of socialism..it's that the system we're NOW under which is not Constitutional has brought us to this place.. read what Ron Paul said about the medical system as it is now in his interview posted by Arator.. what he is advocating is what we should have and will have IF he's elected.. but as it stands now.. medical care in this country is nothing more than corporatism .. and many dont have adequate care nor adequate insurance or ANY insurance for that matter..
Yes indeed - deny that claim, spiraling costs of medicine - it's all about profits
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I never said that what we have now, I like. Its not a freemarket. More and more doctors are completely opting out of HMO's etc. They are able then to provide a much more competive price and care.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Oh I didnt imply that you did.. I was making a statement regarding youre assertion that some on 4 are defending socialism.. which isnt the case ..what I was saying is that the system we're now under is the problem.. and b/c of that system there are only so many options available.. we cannot have it both ways either we make medical care available to all.. the system is rigged for insurance companies period. Either provide care at the same cost for ALL.. insurance companies are billed for much less than those who pay for their own care.. OR scrap it.
Oh, I agree there. The gov/corps have manipulated the whole system. If I was a practicing doc. I would take no insurance or government programs. Government healthcare is not the answer. Where is America going to come up with at least 150 billion a year to fund this?
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Universal health care would cost America about the same, it's what every other advanced nation in the world has, there are different types. It is not govt provided, it is govt paid, with price caps to prevent gouging and spiraling costs by Big Pharma, etc. Just as every advanced nation in the world has public education, national security, public libraries and public transportation. It's not socialism, it's civilized - a step beyond the Dark Ages.
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..leave Iraq for one we could well afford it that way.. Drs for the most part have little they can do ..either they accept government payments or go out of business.. people just plain cannot afford out of pocket medical care.. its the facts.. the majority just cant do it.. not because they are irresponsible or because they spend their money on going out to restaurants or the other ridiculous assertions made on this thread..the facts are costs are off the charts.. the average person is majorly fucked if they have any illness that is more than a headcold.
Keep telling yourself that.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
There is a growing cadre of doctors that are doing just that. The New American magazine recently had an article about this and highlighted several doctors. IIRC, some were using a 'retainer' concept, ie., pay the doctor $100 a month and he takes care of all that ails you--there may be months you don't need any medical, but you still pay the retainer fee, and then again, there could be the operation that he doesn't charge you extra for. Very interesting article; doctors explained how they didn't have to hire extra people to deal with claims forms, etc., and the patients appeared happy.
Ahhh, no. America hasn't even started to pay for Iraq yet. America is still running a 400 billion a year deficit. America owes 9 trillion dollars. Even if we cut, and ran a yearly surplus, we would have to pay back the debt. Foreigners now own around 5 trillion of our debt.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Bingo! The system is very bloated with paper pushers because of corp/gov manipulation.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
i think we are ALL in agreement on that. what we're in disagreement on is how to handle it. whatever though, my concern is that everyone here knows they are welcome at 4um to discuss/debate the issue and any other. no one should be made to feel that they aren't. i have plans with friends now and have to go. i just wanted to say express those sentiments. i have enormous respect and affection for y'all, so i hope this can be resolved while i'm gone.
Very interesting article; doctors explained how they didn't have to hire extra people to deal with claims forms, etc., and the patients appeared happy. This is the way to go, imo.
..there is not a damned thing we can do as it is.. being idealistic is not a bad thing..but its not reality, I believe in the Constitution and everything it stands for but we're not living under that system now.. so we have to find a way to make it ..under the present system.. that people can get the care they need.. at a reasonable cost ..whether it be universal health care or whatever for what is happening now.. the rich and the poor get care the middle class is screwed.
Yep. While I don't recall these doctors being in the NA article, this is the type of deal the article was about. IIRC, most of the NA article focused on Kentucky and Tennessee. Another way that a lot of medical could be handled is rather than using the ER, which is expensive, and clogged up, would be to set up store front walk in clinics staffed/manned by physicians aides and/or nurse practicioners. It wouldn't be necessary to have $50 - $75 office visits. And even if it was, that doesn't come anywhere hear what people bitch about the insurance premium costs as being for a month. While we tend to think of ER as for life-saving or trama situations/conditions, it seems like more and more citizens and aliens use it for daily doctors' office type things. And at that, a doctor isn't needed to remove a splinter, or clean wax out of an ear, or burn off a wart, or look at a rash, or swab a throat for culturing, etc. These could be a part of the public health system. The ER big bucks can fund sidewalk clinics or even the mobile vans which are popping up in some cities in ghettos and slums and skid rows. Have some of these staffed by doctors or nurses or technicians as a way to offset the big bucks used to pay for their education. Hell, out here in boondocks, the district's hhs provides shots--they will even send the nurse to your home. We did it one year because Dad was having a hard time walking.....and I'll be doing it again because he is getting hard to even stand up. Yes, things need to be brought back to realistic porportions. Earlier I was looking around on the net, and was reading an article about how good ol' socialized Sweden has found themselves becoming bankrupt due to medical costs; and they've already done a privatization experiment and will be returning their 6 big hospitals over to the private sector--because they do it so much cheaper. It wasn't all that long ago I was reading an article about Sweden, in which it was all 'glowy' about socialized medicine and the free child care. And then you start finding out the little details--they get to tell you where you child will be put or go. Naturally, this brings to mind good ol mother Russia and her idea of she will test the children and decide what professions and/or schooling they will have. And you get a tax table, as best they can compare, and look at all the european nations and their taxes--not just income, whether personal or corporate, but look at the VAT taxes! The article I mentioned reading not all that long ago indicated that Swedes were taxed at about 60%. I do believe it was Diane Feinstein that thought taxes on the sheeple in the range of 90% wouldn't be a bad thing.
If govs would just stop their meddling and "regulating," things could get better.
I wouldn't argue against your statement for nothing. Cheers...
Like Dr.Paul says, "Freedom is popular." And freedom from govs is right at the top of our list. That's why our country was founded, for crying out loud - and look at us now... Cheers up your way.
Many "MIDDLE CLASS" families are struggling to put food on the table, never mind eating out, or paying a thousand dollars each month on health insurance that MIGHT be useful in the future.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
It's only at the extremes of the spectrum that people benefit.
#137. To: Dakmar (#135)
#138. To: IndieTX (#131)
#139. To: robin (#132)
Auto insurance companies can decide not to renew your policy, and so can health insurance companies.
#140. To: robin (#132)
(Edited)
The details of their car accident were not revealed to my knowledge, and not germane to the health insurance SHIPS subject.
#141. To: SmokinOPs (#140)
#142. To: IndieTX (#131)
(Edited)
WHY should the middle class have to self-insure themselves by putting up their entire life's work just in case and then be willing to spend every penny on to bankrubptcy so every big corporation gets their cut..? Do the rich folks do that? Do the politicians do that? I dodn't think so.
#143. To: robin (#141)
Well, if/when the Frosts are that broke they will be fully eligible for some form of Medicare. They are above the poverty line at the moment.
#144. To: robin (#128)
#145. To: SmokinOPs (#143)
I ain't talking about the "poverty line". Those things I mentioned are things families should be doing way, way, way above the poverty line.
#146. To: robin (#134)
#147. To: robin (#138)
Saving a family like the Frosts seems like a good way to spend tax money, compared to all the other ways it is usually spent.
#148. To: scrapper2 (#145)
#149. To: rowdee (#144)
#150. To: rowdee, robin, SmokinOps (#146)
Denied BEFORE or AFTER the accident?
#151. To: scrapper2 (#142)
#152. To: robin (#121)
(Edited)
So being in a car accident and being denied health insurance 3 times is irresponsible? Working, paying taxes, trying to start a business, paying your bills for six people is negligent?
#153. To: scrapper2, christine (#152)
#154. To: rowdee, christine (#146)
#155. To: Kamala (#153)
Look how a few here at 4um have slowly slid toward pure socialism.
#156. To: Zipporah (#155)
medical care in this country is nothing more than corporatism .
#157. To: Zipporah (#155)
#158. To: Kamala (#157)
#159. To: Zipporah (#158)
#160. To: Kamala (#159)
#161. To: Kamala (#159)
Government healthcare is not the answer. Where is America going to come up with at least 150 billion a year to fund this?
#162. To: robin (#160)
It's not socialism, it's civilized -
#163. To: Kamala (#159)
#164. To: Zipporah (#161)
(Edited)
leave Iraq for one we could well afford it that way
#165. To: rowdee (#163)
#166. To: robin, kamala, Zipprah, ALL (#156)
Yes indeed - deny that claim, spiraling costs of medicine - it's all about profits
#167. To: rowdee (#163)
The New American magazine recently had an article about this and highlighted several doctors. IIRC, some were using a 'retainer' concept, ie., pay the doctor $100 a month and he takes care of all that ails you--there may be months you don't need any medical, but you still pay the retainer fee, and then again, there could be the operation that he doesn't charge you extra for.
#168. To: Kamala (#164)
(Edited)
#169. To: Zipporah. the thread (#168)
Pre-payment doctors here in Austin - good site -
#170. To: lodwick (#169)
#171. To: rowdee (#170)
Earlier I was looking around on the net, and was reading an article about how good ol' socialized Sweden has found themselves becoming bankrupt due to medical costs; and they've already done a privatization experiment and will be returning their 6 big hospitals over to the private sector--because they do it so much cheaper.
#172. To: lodwick (#171)
If govs would just stop their meddling and "regulating," things could get better.
#173. To: rowdee. freedom lovers (#172)
#174. To: scrapper2 (#46)
Fyi, did you know that the fastest growing segment of uninsured in America are the MIDDLE CLASS ( they must have "other priorities" like eating out and Christmas shopping...)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#175. To: scrapper2 (#46)
#176. To: scrapper2 (#49)
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