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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: US demands air passengers ask its permission to fly - If you're not on the list, you're not getting on
Source: ICH
URL Source: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18549.htm
Published: Oct 14, 2007
Author: Wendy M. Grossman
Post Date: 2007-10-14 19:44:59 by richard9151
Ping List: *Agriculture-Environment*     Subscribe to *Agriculture-Environment*
Keywords: None
Views: 239
Comments: 16

10/13/07 "The Register" -- -

Under new rules proposed by the Transport Security Administration (TSA) (pdf), all airline passengers would need advance permission before flying into, through, or over the United States regardless of citizenship or the airline's national origin.

Currently, the Advanced Passenger Information System, operated by the Customs and Border Patrol, requires airlines to forward a list of passenger information no later than 15 minutes before flights from the US take off (international flights bound for the US have until 15 minutes after take-off). Planes are diverted if a passenger on board is on the no-fly list.

The new rules mean this information must be submitted 72 hours before departure. Only those given clearance will get a boarding pass. The TSA estimates that 90 to 93 per cent of all travel reservations are final by then.

The proposed rules require the following information for each passenger: full name, sex, date of birth, and redress number (assigned to passengers who use the Travel Redress Inquiry Program because they have been mistakenly placed on the no-fly list), and known traveller number (once there is a programme in place for registering known travellers whose backgrounds have been checked). Non-travellers entering secure areas, such as parents escorting children, will also need clearance.

The TSA held a public hearing in Washington DC on 20 September, which heard comments from both privacy advocates and airline industry representatives from Qantas, the Regional Airline Association, IATA, and the American Society of Travel Agents. The privacy advocates came from the American Civil Liberties Union and the Identity Project. All were negative.

The proposals should be withdrawn entirely, argued Edward Hasbrouck, author of The Practical Nomad and the leading expert on travel data privacy. "Obscured by the euphemistic language of 'screening' is the fact that travellers would be required to get permission before they can travel."

Hasbrouck submitted that requiring clearance in order to travel violates the US First Amendment right of assembly, the central claim in John Gilmore's case against the US government over the requirement to show photo ID for domestic travel.

In addition, the TSA is required to study the impact of the proposals on small economic entities (such as sole traders). Finally, the TSA provides no way for individuals to tell whether their government-issued ID is actually required by law, opening the way for rampant identity theft.

ACLU's Barry Steinhardt quoted press reports of 500,000 to 750,000 people on the watch list (of which the no-fly list is a subset). "If there are that many terrorists in the US, we'd all be dead."

TSA representative Kip Hawley noted that the list has been carefully investigated and halved over the last year. "Half of grossly bloated is still bloated," Steinhardt replied.

The airline industry representatives' objections were largely logistical. They argued that the 60-day timeframe the TSA proposes to allow for implementation from the publication date of the final rules is much too short. They want a year to revamp many IT systems, especially, as the Qantas representative said, as no one will start until they're sure there will be no further changes.

In addition, many were concerned about the impact on new, convenient and cash-saving technologies, such as checking in at home, or storing a boarding pass in a PDA.

One additional point, also raised by Hasbrouck: the data the TSA requires will be collected by the airlines who presumably will keep it for their own purposes – a "government-coerced informational windfall", he called it.

The third parties who actually do much of the airline industry's data processing, the Global Distribution Systems and Computer Reservations Systems, were missing from the hearing. ®

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#1. To: richard9151 (#0)

Meanwhile, an employment social security number check gets overruled as disciminatory.

Hassle the citizens, coddle the illegals.


I've already said too much.

MUDDOG  posted on  2007-10-14   19:54:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: richard9151 (#0)

Currently, the Advanced Passenger Information System,

That would be "A-PIS".

Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec

Pinguinite  posted on  2007-10-14   20:46:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: richard9151 (#0)

"The Register" -- -has a nick name: "Hermano Grande"

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2007-10-14   21:45:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: MUDDOG (#1)

Hassle the citizens, coddle the illegals.

Yep. That is the name of the game. Makes one wonder how much it will take before people start to stop using everything that the government wants to control.

If a large number of people simply stopped flying for a month, well, most of the non-sense would go away. But people simply adjust, bitch some more, and continue on.

Anything can be changed, IF the people will it. Pretty obvious that the people are content with the loss of their freedoms.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-10-14   22:06:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: richard9151 (#4)

If a large number of people simply stopped flying

Basically, that's what the rich did, switching to more private aviation.

And in general, that's how it's been going for years, if you're rich enough, to opt out and go into private schools, gated communities, etc.

But if you're middle class, you're screwed.


I've already said too much.

MUDDOG  posted on  2007-10-14   22:14:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: richard9151 (#0)

It's not clear by this article if it means US citizens flying within our borders or foreign citizens wishing to do so.

Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'!

Brian S  posted on  2007-10-14   22:17:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Brian S (#6)

It's not clear by this article if it means US citizens flying within our borders or foreign citizens wishing to do so.

As I understand and read it, ALL, no matter the origin of the flight.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-10-14   22:24:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: richard9151 (#7)

As I understand and read it, ALL, no matter the origin of the flight.

I'm not see it according to this sentence:

all airline passengers would need advance permission before flying into, through, or over the United States

Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'!

Brian S  posted on  2007-10-14   22:31:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: richard9151 (#0)

Hasbrouck submitted that requiring clearance in order to travel violates the US First Amendment right of assembly

Do you think these people really consider the Constitution?

angle  posted on  2007-10-14   22:38:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Brian S (#8)

all airline passengers

Brian; you wrote it; all airline passengers

Now, read this;

Currently, the Advanced Passenger Information System, operated by the Customs and Border Patrol, requires airlines to forward a list of passenger information no later than 15 minutes before flights from the US take off

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-10-14   22:43:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: angle (#9)

Do you think these people really consider the Constitution?

LOL! Sure they doooooo!! Esp. when they run out of paper in the bathroom!

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-10-14   22:45:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: richard9151 (#0)

The new rules mean this information must be submitted 72 hours before departure.

Maybe the Jews will kill this one. Don't they have to bury their dead within 24 hours? Kinda hard to bury someone in California when you live in New York, and have to wait 72 hours to get on a plane.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2007-10-15   0:36:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: richard9151, *libertarians* (#0)

ping

Why settle for the lesser of two evils, vote Cthulhu!

freepatriot32  posted on  2007-10-15   6:14:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#12)

They'll write in a Jewish Funeral Exemption of course.

Dumber people than me have done it.

Critter  posted on  2007-10-15   10:35:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#12)

Maybe the Jews will kill this one.

Naw. They are the ones promoting the "rule of (their) law" and this comes from that; total-absolute control of every move/dollar.

They simply will not be subject to the same rules.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-10-15   10:52:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Critter, AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#14)

They'll write in a Jewish Funeral Exemption of course.

LOL! Never thought of it that way, but you are probably correct!

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-10-15   10:53:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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