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Resistance
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Title: Bitter Harvest for Small Farms
Source: Washington Post
URL Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy ... 007/10/19/AR2007101902757.html
Published: Oct 20, 2007
Author: Jane Black
Post Date: 2007-10-20 08:17:30 by purpleman
Keywords: None
Views: 379
Comments: 39

WINGINA, Va. -- To some, Richard Bean is a folk hero: the small farmer who dared to sell local, naturally raised pork chops, ribs, sausages and bacon. To the government, Bean looks like a felon.

Since 2001, Bean has sold his pork to restaurants and at farmers markets in the Charlottesville area, where he also offers chicken, vegetables and homemade bread. In many ways, his Double H Farm is exactly what the burgeoning eat-local movement wants: a diversified, family-run farm that sells to nearby customers.

But to make farming sustainable, Bean said, he has evaded government requirements that producers have animals slaughtered and processed in inspected facilities. His defiance led to his arrest Sept. 21 when state police officers, armed and dressed in flak jackets, arrived at the Double H with a search warrant and arrested Bean and his partner, Jean Rinaldi.

The officers handcuffed Bean, confiscated the couple's computer and charged them with felony intent to defraud, which carries the possibility of three years in jail for a conviction. The couple are accused of selling meat improperly labeled "certified organic." They also face seven misdemeanor charges. No hearing date has been set.

"We were trying to skirt the system. A small farm, making it work," Bean, 62, said over sandwiches of home-produced ham at his kitchen table. "We were able to earn a significant amount more per animal, and that's how we are able to compete with corporate agriculture."

Eat-local proponents, or locavores, say foods grown by nearby, small farms are fresher and better for the environment and local communities than government-certified organic foods, which can come from as far away as New Zealand. Bean is one of a number of small farmers whose stand against state and federal regulations has landed him in legal trouble.

This month, a county sheriff served Michigan cattle farmer Greg Niewendorp with a warrant before he would allow state agriculture officials to test his herd as part of a program to eradicate tuberculosis. In Pennsylvania, dairy farmer Mark Nolt refused to obtain a permit to sell unpasteurized milk, prompting officials to raid his farm and confiscate raw milk, cheese and yogurt as well as equipment and sales records.

And in Charlottesville, John Coles and Christine Solem of Satyrfield Farms have dodged state regulations for nearly three years by giving away their raw-milk goat cheese, which is illegal to sell in Virginia. They have been soliciting donations for, a sign in front of their market stand says, "legislative and court efforts to allow the sales of raw milk, cheese and other farm products."

Federal and state rules are designed to protect consumers from unsafe foods and provide a level playing field for producers. The Virginia Independent Consumers and Farmers Association declined to comment on Bean and Rinaldi's case. But spokeswoman Elaine Lidholm said: "Our goal is to bring people into compliance, not to punish them. It is in the best interest of everyone if we can bring these farmers and animal owners into compliance because the law is designed to create a safe food supply."

For the past three years, no illnesses from meat or poultry in state-inspected plants have been reported. Outbreaks of food-borne illness, however, are difficult to track because most go unreported, she said.

The growing defiance from small farmers illustrates their increasing frustration with rules that they say penalize them and favor industrial producers, who were the source of headline-grabbing disease outbreaks such as the E.coli-infected spinach that killed three people last year and last month's recall of 21.7 million pounds of E.coli-infected ground beef.

"People are dying of recalled spinach," Bean said. "It's not happening here, because you know what happens when it's a small sale with interaction between farmer and customer? You're face to face. You have to be a really bad guy to screw your customer."

Bean and other farmers advocate unregulated direct sales of locally grown foods. "What we would like to see is an exemption from government intrusion in direct farmer-to-consumer food transactions," said Joel Salatin, owner of Polyface Farm in nearby Swoope, a pioneer of the local food movement and author of "Everything I Want to Do Is Illegal: War Stories From the Local Food Front." "In other words, if you want to come to my farm, look and smell around, and make an informed decision to opt out of Wal-Mart, you should have the freedom to do so."

Bean and Rinaldi founded the Double H Farm in 2000. They grew vegetables that were certified organic -- a federal designation that requires foods to be grown without chemicals and pesticides -- until last year, when Bean decided to let the designation lapse because of cost and hassle and "because local was more important."

The Double H also followed organic principles when raising pigs, giving them a diet of non-genetically modified grain, soybeans and corn, an outdoor pen, and no antibiotics or hormones. But Bean never obtained federal certification that would have required him to submit a plan that, among other things, documents practices and substances used in production and allows annual on-site inspections. The cost of certification for a small farm is about $500 a year.

In the beginning, Bean had his hogs slaughtered in a federally inspected plant in Lynchburg, a 40-minute drive away. But in 2002, he began killing the pigs in his barn. "We were set up to do it, and I knew how, so it just made sense," Bean said.

In May 2006, Bean and Rinaldi were visited at a Charlottesville market by F.C. Lamneck, a state meat and poultry compliance officer. Bean said Lamneck told him that his meat should be slaughtered in a federally inspected facility. That June, Bean received a letter from state agriculture officials saying that he was in violation of the Federal Meat Inspection Act but that legal action would not be taken based on his desire to comply with the statute.

Still, Bean said, he did not immediately begin taking his pigs to an inspected slaughterhouse. The Lynchburg facility had closed, and Bean's only other option was more than two hours away, which he said adds $300 per hog. He complied for a short time in the spring, but, Bean said, the expense and effort made it "easy to fall back into our old ways. We had pigs ready, customers ready, and it's a very busy time of year."

Lamneck next visited the couple in July at the Charlottesville market. Bean said Lamneck asked for documentation that Bean was following the rules. Bean showed him an invoice for two pigs that were killed at the inspected facility. But, Bean said, he had gone there only once.

Then the legal action started: On Aug. 18, Bean and Rinaldi were charged with two misdemeanors in both Nelson and Albemarle counties in the alleged sale of meat that was not killed in a federally inspected facility. On Sept. 6, officials visited a Charlottesville restaurant and requested that staff pour bleach on a roasting pig that Bean had delivered that day, to render it inedible, Bean said.

On Sept. 8, inspectors arrived at the Charlottesville market and put a "detain" sticker on Bean's meat, preventing him from legally selling it. Some of that pork -- about 10 percent, Rinaldi said -- had "certified organic" stickers even though it was not certified.

"Had I known it was a criminal offense to put that sticker on those packages, they would have been in the fire barrel the next day. But he never told us that," Rinaldi said of Lamneck. "They have this thing for us. They are going to raise the notch every time we comply with something."

Lamneck declined to comment, referring questions to the state agriculture department.

On Sept. 21, Bean and Rinaldi were arrested and charged with intent to defraud their customers.

Bean is resigned to the charges, saying he's "pretty much ready" to go to jail. He said the Double H is complying with regulations and selling at farmers markets until the season ends next Saturday.

Bean and Rinaldi's case has divided Charlottesville's farmers markets. Lynne Bair had never bought from the Double H until she heard about the case. The next week, she purchased pork chops, spareribs and sausages.

"It infuriates me that I can go buy a factory-farmed pound of hamburger that's been trucked all over and I can't buy a steak that I know was raised well 10 miles away," she said.

Others disagreed, saying that Bean and Rinaldi's alleged actions gave them an unfair advantage. "I encourage Richard Bean to challenge the law. . . . But until it changes, he and all the vendors must comply," said Amy Childs, manager of the Nelson Farmers Market, who has been called to testify in the case. "When someone comes in and doesn't comply, he is cheating."

Some farmers are trying to change the rules. The Virginia Independent Consumers and Farmers Association, of which Bean and Rinaldi are members, is working to loosen -- if not end -- regulation of direct farmer-to-consumer sales. The group is working with state Sen. R. Creigh Deeds (D-Bath) on a bill that would permit growers to sell to individuals for personal consumption, provided the product is labeled "not for resale, processed and prepared without state inspection."

The group's work has also led to new state chapters, including one in Maryland that has 50 members.

But most are pessimistic about their chances of changing the law. "I've been at the General Assembly. You don't have a chance down there," said Satyrfield Farm's Solem. "Jean called us and said: 'I've never been in trouble with the law. I'm going to be a criminal.' And I said: 'Well, join the club. We're all criminals.' "

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#1. To: purpleman (#0)

a bill that would permit growers to sell to individuals for personal consumption, provided the product is labeled "not for resale, processed and prepared without state inspection."

We cant have that, competition with the food giants is not allowed.

A common farmer might make an honest living from his own labor.

Cynicom  posted on  2007-10-20   8:30:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Cynicom (#1)

Yeah, I know some folks who run a very small slaughterhouse near Front Royal, VA They are required to have an inspector there 100% of the time when they slaughter for resale. I don't think it applies to deer in season (which are not allowed to be resold). Like you say, it's all about helping the big chains with their nice paved parking lots and wonderful food from China.

Money problems do not come from a lack of money, but from living an excessive, unrealistic lifestyle

purpleman  posted on  2007-10-20   8:38:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: purpleman (#2)

Here in the hills, small dairy farms are almost all gone as they could not meet requirements that kept getting stronger every year. Now we have huge dairy factories and the small farmer is gone.

The Amish have resurrected many of the small farms and manage to survive by denying themselves.

Cynicom  posted on  2007-10-20   9:09:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: purpleman (#0)

Three vital steps to effect a remedy:

1) filing for and registering allodial ownership of all small farms and business properties to eliminate federal/state/county jurisdiction.

2) divesting from the dollar and creating alternative currencies for private trade (thus eliminating the word "sell" and inserting the word "exchange")

3) revoking all personal and business contracts with government, which currently bind all parties and properties to federal/state/county authority.

Of course no one will attempt this.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-20   9:47:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: RidinShotgun (#4)

1) filing for and registering allodial ownership of all small farms and business properties to eliminate federal/state/county jurisdiction.

If a method could be achieved to determine an independent small farmer and free them of the regulations, small farms would once again proliferate.

Cynicom  posted on  2007-10-20   9:53:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Cynicom (#5)

If a method could be achieved to determine an independent small farmer and free them of the regulations, small farms would once again proliferate.

First they'd have to study the three steps listed above to understand WHY they haven't been able to achieve independence while bound to the status quo.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-20   9:56:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: purpleman (#0)

'Well, join the club. We're all criminals.'

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-10-20   9:56:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: RidinShotgun (#6)

Government is incapable of such.

Cynicom  posted on  2007-10-20   9:57:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: RidinShotgun (#4)

2) divesting from the dollar and creating alternative currencies for private trade (thus eliminating the word "sell" and inserting the word "exchange")

Small farmers could sell silver bullion to their customers for FRNs and then take silver bullion in exchange for their meat. hehehe

Dumber people than me have done it.

Critter  posted on  2007-10-20   9:57:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: lodwick (#7)

'Well, join the club. We're all criminals.'

No we aren't, unless we acquiese jurisdiction to the real criminals.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-20   9:58:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: RidinShotgun (#10)

unless we acquiese jurisdiction to the real criminals.

That happened long ago.

Cynicom  posted on  2007-10-20   9:59:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Cynicom (#8)

Government is incapable of such.

Government is incapable of anything without our support.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-20   10:00:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Critter (#9)

Small farmers could sell silver bullion to their customers for FRNs and then take silver bullion in exchange for their meat. hehehe

They could accept wooden nickels in exchange for their products if such were acknowledged as having trading value within the community, or pretty river rocks if the trading partners so chose.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-20   10:03:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Cynicom (#11)

That happened long ago.

Lots of things happened long ago. Some things change if enough people admit that things need to be changed and do something to change them.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-20   10:05:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: purpleman (#0)

"When someone comes in and doesn't comply, he is cheating."

Comply or die. Geeze, bring back the Mafia; they only wanted 10% protection money.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2007-10-20   10:07:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: RidinShotgun (#12)

Government is incapable of anything without our support.

The government has proven itself to be a separate entity, totally unresponsive to the masses.

Cynicom  posted on  2007-10-20   10:07:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Fred Mertz (#15)

Comply or die.

Small farms already died of compliance and consumers of food are on their death beds from the disease of compliance. Its a bigger killer than war.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-20   10:11:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Cynicom (#16)

The government has proven itself to be a separate entity, totally unresponsive to the masses.

True. So why do people comply with the rules of this separate entity?

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-20   10:13:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: purpleman (#0)

"We were able to earn a significant amount more per animal, and that's how we are able to compete with corporate agriculture."

Can't have that.

Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org

who knows what evil  posted on  2007-10-20   10:18:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: purpleman (#0)

This is exactly why we need a Ron Paul presidency.

Dumber people than me have done it.

Critter  posted on  2007-10-20   10:45:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Critter (#20)

This is exactly why we need a Ron Paul presidency.

Isn't that kind of like putting all your proverbial eggs into one mortal basket? How will a Dr. Paul presidency make selling raw milk direct from the farm "legal"?

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-20   11:10:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: RidinShotgun (#21)

We have to start somewhere, and I think he would address this issue right away.

Where do you suggest we start?

Dumber people than me have done it.

Critter  posted on  2007-10-20   11:13:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Critter (#22)

We have to start somewhere, and I think he would address this issue right away.

Where do you suggest we start?

I agree that we have to start somewhere, but our basic problem is centralized government, so whoever is president simply presides over that out of control entity. Do you think Con Agra, ADM (supermarket to the world) and their mutual lackey, the FDA would simply roll over if he asked them to decentralize? Or even if he ordered them to do so?

Maybe people need to start by figuring out how we, as individuals, promote and support the centralized government that suppresses free enterprise and OUR economy.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-20   11:24:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: RidinShotgun (#23)

It has taken 100+ years to get where we are now. It won't be fixed in a week or month or even decade. But having a voice of freedom behind the bulliest pulpit of them all would be a great way to get the ball rolling.

Dumber people than me have done it.

Critter  posted on  2007-10-20   11:30:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: purpleman (#0) (Edited)

I hate to have to say it, but farmers are today's Welfare Queen. They suck more funds from the federal tit than welfare queens, but they think they're still rugged individuals. Federal money is used to buy off farmers, so states with small populations but two US senators can have undeserved political power.

The same Republicans those farmers have consistently elected have totally screwed the little farmers by doing everything they can to help BIG FARM wipe out the mom and pop farms.

Farming is not very economic without ridiculous government subsidies.

As for the guy in the OP story, he may be a good guy, but uninspected meat is no laughing matter. If you don't butcher animals right, shit contaminates the meat, and it doesn't take much shit or much of a foul up to do it.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-10-20   11:39:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Critter (#24)

It has taken 100+ years to get where we are now. It won't be fixed in a week or month or even decade. But having a voice of freedom behind the bulliest pulpit of them all would be a great way to get the ball rolling.

Even a Dr. Paul couldn't undo the hundred plus years its taken to propagandize the people into believing that eating unprocessed foods is harmful to their health. Even if he managed to get the FDA to stand down, few people would touch foods not stamped FDA approved ... even if they know the approved stuff can and does kill. Never let it be said that the politics of fear isn't potent.

Sorry to say it but most people only want to be free from the risks true freedom demands.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-20   11:42:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: RidinShotgun (#26)

Sorry to say it but most people only want to be free from the risks true freedom demands.

If the support for RP can be used as a gauge, at least the younger generation is looking ready to take on the risks.

Dumber people than me have done it.

Critter  posted on  2007-10-20   11:44:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: purpleman (#0)

In Pennsylvania, dairy farmer Mark Nolt refused to obtain a permit to sell unpasteurized milk, prompting officials to raid his farm and confiscate raw milk, cheese and yogurt as well as equipment and sales records.

Yes, let's create a whole new agency to find, prosecute, and imprison buyers of unpasteurized yogurt. That's just fucking brilliant.

" Junk is the ideal product... the ultimate merchandise. No sales talk necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy." - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2007-10-20   11:45:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Critter (#27)

If the support for RP can be used as a gauge, at least the younger generation is looking ready to take on the risks.

I'd like nothing better than to see the younger generation taking on some risks (voting is not a risk) to get out from under the beast and I'm dissing neither them, nor Dr. Paul when I say that if in the huge potential for their disappointment over losing the coming election they won't just throw up their hands in defeat and go on semi-functioning under the growing beast like every other generation before them has done when their own candidates, who were considered paragons of freedom and fairness in their time, were defeated in "fair" elections.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-20   12:00:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: RidinShotgun (#4)

Of course no one will attempt this.

I wouldn't say no one. This is what we DO.

1) We ONLY accept silver for our raw dairy products.
2) Everything that leaves here is clearly labeled "Pet Food - Not For Human Consumption"

Purina isn't liable if you go to the grocery store and buy a bag of Alpo, then take it home and feed it to your kids :)

As to allodial title - a bit more involved, but probably worth doing, because an allodial title was bestowed, by law, upon the land with unalienability forever. No government, agency, bank or other sovereign power could place any lien, attachment or encumbrance on land held in an allodial state. An allodial title is derived from the original, federal land patent. "Land Patents" are still today the highest evidence of title and have never been refuted by any court of competent jurisdiction.

The original Land Patent Office is now the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) which consisted of government land officers. Records of the original Land Patents are kept there. Perfecting an allodial title requires updating the original land patent and rewriting the legal description for the land in metes and bounds - the measurements of the original Surveyor General.
Research the abstracts of title, make a claim, and bring the title forward minus any exclusions (i.e., easements). Update and record your Land Patent in the "Great Book" at the County Recorder's office. Because bringing forth the true title is pursuant to the Common law, you must be a sovereign "state" Citizen to claim the rights and title to land.This is distinct from any actions relating to the equitable title, and any liens or encumbrances attached thereof.

In order to be a sovereign "state" citizen, you need to live as an individual as outlined in Hale vs Henkel. But in order to do that you CANNOT have contracts with the state - including driver's license, business license, marriage license, hunting/fishing license, bank account, Social Security account, or any of about 30 other "contracts".

In reality it's not that most will not attempt to secure allodial title, but rather that most simply don't qualify.

99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
Steven Wright

innieway  posted on  2007-10-20   13:55:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Paul Revere (#25)

I hate to have to say it, but farmers are today's Welfare Queen.

The same Republicans those farmers have consistently elected have totally screwed the little farmers by doing everything they can to help BIG FARM wipe out the mom and pop farms.

Farming is not very economic without ridiculous government subsidies.

Excellent points - and very true.

I live in a farming community, and have said for years that farmers around here are nothing more than glorified welfare recipients. These guys LIKE the "system" the way it is. They LIKE the tax system, they don't WANT a "flat tax", because they work it to get enough write-offs under the current system that they can deal with six digit "incomes" and pay less tax than the cashier at the grocery store.

A friend of mine stopped by this morning and was telling me he had looked it up, and mentioned the subsidies received last year by some folks that farm within just a few miles of me. 1 had received a little over $150,000; and the others he mentioned - 2 brothers that are in partnership - received $135,000 each, making the "farm" total $270,000

99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
Steven Wright

innieway  posted on  2007-10-20   14:11:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Critter (#9)

Small farmers could sell silver bullion to their customers for FRNs and then take silver bullion in exchange for their meat.

Then they'd probably try to nail them for not being "licensed bullion dealers".

We tell our customers WHERE they can get silver, but THEY are responsible for getting it. It comes TO us, not FROM us.

99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
Steven Wright

innieway  posted on  2007-10-20   14:15:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Dakmar (#28)

Yes, let's create a whole new agency to find, prosecute, and imprison buyers of unpasteurized yogurt.

B-B-But raw yogurt contains beneficial bacteria - that could be dangerous...

99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
Steven Wright

innieway  posted on  2007-10-20   14:21:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: innieway (#31)

Do you know if the subsidies were LDP or CRP payments?

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-10-20   14:31:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: innieway (#30)

As to allodial title - a bit more involved, but probably worth doing, because an allodial title was bestowed, by law, upon the land with unalienability forever. No government, agency, bank or other sovereign power could place any lien, attachment or encumbrance on land held in an allodial state. An allodial title is derived from the original, federal land patent. "Land Patents" are still today the highest evidence of title and have never been refuted by any court of competent jurisdiction.

The original Land Patent Office is now the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) which consisted of government land officers. Records of the original Land Patents are kept there. Perfecting an allodial title requires updating the original land patent and rewriting the legal description for the land in metes and bounds - the measurements of the original Surveyor General. Research the abstracts of title, make a claim, and bring the title forward minus any exclusions (i.e., easements). Update and record your Land Patent in the "Great Book" at the County Recorder's office. Because bringing forth the true title is pursuant to the Common law, you must be a sovereign "state" Citizen to claim the rights and title to land.This is distinct from any actions relating to the equitable title, and any liens or encumbrances attached thereof.

In order to be a sovereign "state" citizen, you need to live as an individual as outlined in Hale vs Henkel. But in order to do that you CANNOT have contracts with the state - including driver's license, business license, marriage license, hunting/fishing license, bank account, Social Security account, or any of about 30 other "contracts".

In reality it's not that most will not attempt to secure allodial title, but rather that most simply don't qualify.

Bless you, you got it in one. You did a wonderful job of breaking it down. And yes, isn't it a puzzle that more Americans can qualify for sovereignty-busting credit and contracts than for anything remotely resembling sovereignty itself. But I'm sure the gradual usurpation of allodial titles in the US was just another unintended consequence of progressive civilization.

Good for you on your PM for food plan!!! Its a good start and I wish more people could understand what you're doing and why.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2007-10-20   21:10:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: lodwick (#34)

Do you know if the subsidies were LDP or CRP payments?

He didn't say, but I would assume LDP. As far as I know, the 2 brothers don't have any land in CRP, and they farm quite a bit of land (I want to say something like 12 sections).

We have a guy here that benefited from the CRP program in a BIG way. He was the founder of a pretty large seed company, and went through a divorce years back. His ex got the vast majority of the seed company, so he just said to hell with it and walked away from it. Then he restarted a new seed company dealing only in native grass seed. It's now the largest native grass seed supplier in the country. Some of the rarer grass seeds sell upwards of $35/lb!!

So if you know somebody wanting to put in say buffalo grass on some acreage, give me a shout. The cheapest I've seen buffalo on the internet is around $12/lb. I can get it from this guy for $7. Buffalo is EXCELLENT forage for livestock - my horses and cattle do very good on it (I have about 60 acres of buffalo grass pasture). But the goats don't care much for it - or any other grass for that matter. They'd rather have tree leaves and bark, weeds, rose bushes, a garden, cardboard boxes, or burlap sacks. It amazes me that they can eat weeds and burlap and shit and still put out such good tasting milk. It don't work that way with the cows...

99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
Steven Wright

innieway  posted on  2007-10-21   15:00:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: RidinShotgun (#35)

And yes, isn't it a puzzle that more Americans can qualify for sovereignty-busting credit and contracts than for anything remotely resembling sovereignty itself.

Not really. Most Americans don't WANT "sovereignty". They like not having to be accountable or responsible for themselves. They don't WANT any "hassles". They like the idea of someone else preparing for their "retirement" (which is the idea behind Social Security). Personally, I pray everyday that God spares me from the CURSE called retirement.

There may be a "ring of truth" to the notion that we have so many illegals because "they do the jobs we won't". How many will give up their $25/hr job as a licensed electrician to gain "sovereignty" and pick watermelons for $6/hr - and never once consider that they would have just as much after all is said and done because they aren't paying SS, Income tax, union dues, fees to keep their all their licenses current, etc?

The sad fact is we have become a lethargic group of people. Far more prefer the "convenience" of buying a can of beans at the grocery store than the "hassle" of growing and canning their own beans. I don't care what happens, or who gets elected, I'm afraid the ONLY thing that's going to "wake up the masses" will be a TOTAL economic collapse, and then it'll be too late. So the way I see it, a golden opportunity is at hand for the wise who are prepared. There were SOME "winners" in the Great Depression.

99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
Steven Wright

innieway  posted on  2007-10-21   15:24:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: innieway (#37)

The sad fact is we have become a lethargic group of people. Far more prefer the "convenience" of buying a can of beans at the grocery store than the "hassle" of growing and canning their own beans.

That is what most worries me.

I fear that this next generation will accept any kind of government oversight and control to keep their cell phones turned on and their myspaces available. Freedom ends here with whimpers, not bangs.

On the economic front, today's generation loves debt. They really do think it's money, instead of their indentured servitude papers.

It's pretty simple. If you didn't pay cash, you didn't really pay for it. You promised a big chunk of your life for it, on the hope you'll have money to pay it.

Federal and personal debt are at critical mass, and the economy cannot long support such debt.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-10-21   15:45:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: innieway (#36)

So if you know somebody wanting to put in say buffalo grass on some acreage, give me a shout. The cheapest I've seen buffalo on the internet is around $12/lb. I can get it from this guy for $7. Buffalo is EXCELLENT forage for livestock - my horses and cattle do very good on it (I have about 60 acres of buffalo grass pasture).

Super information - thanks.

We just cleared a couple hundred acres in N.TX and put down some Bahia seed which may have been washed away by over six inches of rain in the last monsoon that passed through.

Does your friend have a website for his seeds?

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-10-21   16:04:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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