4um: THE WHORE OF BABYLON [Scripture tells us it was JERUSALEM]

Title: THE WHORE OF BABYLON [Scripture tells us it was JERUSALEM]
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://ecclesia.org/truth/whore.html
Published: Oct 24, 2007
Author: Richard Anthony
Post Date: 2007-10-24 13:17:30 by AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt
Keywords: Israel/Zionism, "Christian" Zionists are False
Views: 454
Comments: 35

The Angel said that he will tell us the mystery of the Woman (Rev 17:7, 18). In fact, the whole book of Revelation gives us clues, so we will start our investigation there. Once we have the internal clues the external evidence shouldn't be too hard to find...

* The Woman is called "Sodom" and "Egypt" and "Babylon" (Revelation 11:8; 17:5, 14:8, 18:10, 21).

* The Woman "sits on many waters" (Revelation 17:1) and these "waters" are diverse peoples (Revelation 17:15).

* The Woman has fornicated with the Heathen World against God (Revelation 17:2, 18:3, 18:9).

* The Woman is the Mother of all Whores and Abominable Atrocities (Revelation 17:5).

* The Woman is Drunk on the Blood of O.T. & N.T. Saints (Revelation 17:6, 18:24, 18:20).

* The Woman is responsible for the death of the Prophets and Apostles (Revelation 17:6, 18:20, 18:24).

* The Woman's authority as someone equipped to Judge is removed (Revelation 18:22).

* The Woman is called "This/That Great City" (Revelation 11:8, 14:8, 16:19, 17:18, 18:10, 16, 18, 19, 21, 21:10).

The most compelling evidence that the woman is Jerusalem is that scripture says it's where Jesus was crucified! (Revelation 11:8). Compare Jerusalem before her Judgment: (Revelation 11:8) and after Her Judgment (Revelation 21:10).

There are two Jerusalem's. One was the literal, fleshly type of the true, spiritual Jerusalem. One was the Zion of Israel - the abode or rallying point of God's chosen nation, the other was the true Zion - the Abode of God and by extension the spiritual Home/Abode of His people where they are written and their spirits assemble before Him in awe and worship.

Jerusalem was once the Beautiful City of God, but now she has become a den of devils and full of idolatries and filthy abominations. God is going to judge Her and give her name to the spiritually faithful - those from both the nation of Israel and the heathen nations. Thus will His "Jerusalem" and His "Zion" be pure.

God also uses the term "this great city" to refer to Jerusalem in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 22:6-9).

The Woman has killed the Saints - the Prophets, Apostles, and Jesus (Revelation 11:8; 17:6; 18: 20,24).

Jerusalem has killed the Saints - the Prophets, Apostles, and Jesus (Matthew 23:29-36; Luke 6:22-23, 26; 11:47-52; 13:28,33-34; Acts 2:23,36; 3:15; 4:10; 5:30; 7:51-52; Romans 11:2-5; 1 Corinthians 2:7-8; 1 Thessalonians 2:14-15, James 5:10).

Heaven is The Country for Saints: (Philippians 3:20, Hebrews 11:13-16, Galatians 4:24-26, Psalm 48:2; 74:2; 76:2; 87:5, Matthew 5:34-35).

The "Dragon" was the source of power and authority for the Beast (also referred to as the serpent, the Devil, and Satan at Revelation 12:9, 20:2). Were the Romans ever called "children of the devil"? The Jews were: (John 8:44; Acts 13:10; 1 John 3:10)! The Jews were also called "serpents" and "offspring of vipers" (Matthew 23:33)! And that same verse (Matthew 23:33) condemns them to a fiery end similar to the end of the Beast and his followers (Revelation 19:19-21)!

The 7 Mountains (Revelation 17:9) refer to Jerusalem, not Rome. The seven mountains upon which Jerusalem was built are Mount Zion, Mount Ophel, Mount Moriah, Mount Bezetha, Mount Acra, Mount Gareb, and Mount Goath.

Some might ask, "If the 'whore' is Jerusalem, how could the 'beast' be Nero Caesar, from Rome? Would not the "beast" be someone who rules over Jerusalem? The answer is that Caesar DID rule over Jerusalem. The highest religious authorities in Jerusalem, and all the Jews living in Jerusalem, even admitted that Caesar is their king (John 19:15).

Let's look at the term "Sodom." John wrote that this is a "figurative" name. That means it does not tell us the actual name of the city, but it's spiritual condition. Once more, in letting the Bible interpret itself, we find this is a reference to Jerusalem. In Isaiah, chapter 1, after declaring that he had a "vision33;concerning Judah and Jerusalem" (verse 1), Isaiah wrote, "Hear the words of the Lord, you rulers of Sodom33;" In Jeremiah 23:14, because of the adulterous prophets, God said that Jerusalem and her inhabitants had "become to Me like Sodom."

But what about "Egypt?" No where in the Bible is Jerusalem called Egypt. However, that the first century generation was also in an exodus. While Old Testament Israel's exodus was from the bondage of Egypt, the New Testament Israel's exodus was from the bondage of the Old Covenant Law. The most recognizable passage that depicts this "new exodus" is found in I Corinthians 10:1-11. Paul wrote, "And all these things happened to those [as] examples, and was written for our warning; to whom the ends of the ages have arrived." His contextual foundation for this statement was the Old Testament exodus from Egyptian bondage. He wrote that they had passed through the sea (verse 1). They ate manna and drank from the rock (verse's 3-4). He then relays how they wandered in the wilderness (verse 5), became idolaters (verse 7), tried the Lord and were destroyed by serpents (verse 9). This shows us that, just like the "type and shadow" of the Old Testament and their deliverance from bondage, the New Testament saints were undergoing the same exodus. The only difference was that Paul's generation was the reality to which the Old Testament example pointed.

Furthermore, in Luke 13:33-34, Jesus said, "[T]oday and tomorrow, and on the following [day], I must travel on, because it is not possible [for] a prophet to perish outside Jerusalem. Jerusalem! Jerusalem! The [one] killing the prophets, and stoning those having been sent to her." Then, in Matthew 23:29-37, Jesus blasted the Jews of His day for killing the prophets and the apostles. He declared that they are the children of their fathers who also killed the prophets. Then in verse 32, Jesus said that they would complete the sin that their fathers started. But the most crucial evidence is found in verse 35, where Jesus said, "upon you (i.e., the Jews of His day) may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on the earth." Then He said, "I tell you the truth, all of these things will happen to you people who are living now. Jerusalem, Jerusalem! You kill the prophets and stone to death those who are sent to you" (verse's 36-37). In both passages, Jesus told the Jews of His day that they were guilty of "all the righteous blood shed upon the earth" (see also Acts 7:51-52).

In Jeremiah 31:32, God said he was 33;an husband33; to Israel. In Jeremiah 3:8-14 and Isaiah 50:1, God states that he was married to Israel, and gave Israel a bill of divorcement, because Israel committed adultery. This occured around 721 B.C.

Jesus said, "It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: (Deuteronomy 24:1) But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." (Matthew 5:31-32).

God said that the only Just reason for divorcing your wife was "on the ground of unfaithfulness." Also, that a "written notice of divorce" must be given. Would God not abide by His own laws? Prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, God served Israel her divorce papers. And this allowed for a new bride.

Revelation 21:2, "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

When was the Old Jerusalem destroyed? 70AD. So when should the "new Jerusalem" have been established? 70AD. Aren't the followers of Christ now the "bride" of Christ? Yes. In 721 B.C., God divorced Himself from the adulterous, harlot wife and gave to His Son a new Bride in 70 A.D.! That's Us!

Ezekiel 16 is very compelling evidence that Jerusalem is the whore. Here are some excerpts:

Ezekiel 16:1-2, "And there is a word of Jehovah unto me, saying, `Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations, and thou hast said:"

Ezekiel 16:7-8, "...And comest in with an excellent adornment, Breasts have been formed, and thy hair hath grown -- And thou, naked and bare! And I pass over by thee, and I see thee, And lo, thy time is a time of loves,"

Ezekiel 16:15-18, "And thou dost trust in thy beauty, And goest a-whoring because of thy renown, And dost pour out thy whoredoms On every passer by -- to him it is. And thou dost take of thy garments, And dost make to thee spotted high-places, And dost go a-whoring upon them, They are not coming in -- nor shall it be! And thou dost take thy beauteous vessels Of My gold and My silver that I gave to thee, And dost make to thee images of a male, And dost go a-whoring with them, And dost take the garments of thy embroidery, And thou dost cover them, And My oil and My perfume thou hast set before them."

Ezekiel 16:20, "And thou dost take thy sons and thy daughters Whom thou hast born to Me, And dost sacrifice them to them for food. Is it a little thing because of thy whoredoms,"

Ezekiel 16:25-26, "At every head of the way thou hast built thy high place, And thou dost make thy beauty abominable, And dost open wide thy feet to every passer by, And dost multiply thy whoredoms, And dost go a-whoring unto sons of Egypt, Thy neighbours -- great of appetite! And thou dost multiply thy whoredoms, To provoke Me to anger."

Ezekiel 16:28-38, "And thou goest a-whoring unto sons of Asshur, Without thy being satisfied, And thou dost go a-whoring with them, And also -- thou hast not been satisfied. And thou dost multiply thy whoredoms On the land of Canaan -- toward Chaldea, And even with this thou hast not been satisfied. How weak is thy heart, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, In thy doing all these, The work of a domineering whorish woman. In thy building thine arch at the head of every way, Thy high place thou hast made in every broad place, And -- hast not been as a whore deriding a gift. The wife who committeth adultery -- Under her husband -- doth receive strangers. To all whores they give a gift, And -- thou hast given thy gifts to all thy lovers, And dost bribe them to come in unto thee, From round about -- in thy whoredoms. And the contrary is in thee from women in thy whoredoms, That after thee none doth go a-whoring; And in thy giving a gift, And a gift hath not been given to thee; And thou art become contrary. Therefore, O whore, hear a word of Jehovah, Thus said the Lord Jehovah: Because of thy brass being poured forth, And thy nakedness is revealed in thy whoredoms near thy lovers, And near all the idols of thy abominations, And according to the blood of thy sons, Whom thou hast given to them; Therefore, lo, I am assembling all thy lovers, To whom thou hast been sweet, And all whom thou hast loved, Besides all whom thou hast hated; And I have assembled them by thee round about, And have revealed thy nakedness to them, And they have seen all thy nakedness. And I have judged thee -- judgments of adultresses, And of women shedding blood, And have given thee blood, fury, and jealousy."

Ezekiel 16:41, " And burnt thy houses with fire, And done in thee judgments before the eyes of many women, And I have caused thee to cease from going a-whoring, And also a gift thou givest no more."

The evidence is overbearing. All throughout scripture, Jerusalem is said to be the whore.

2) "It's time for a new beginning, for an end to government of the few, by the few, and for the few...and to replace it with shared responsibility for shared prosperity."

3) "(We)...can't just let business as usual go on, and that means something has to be taken away from some people."

4) "We have to build a political consensus and that requires people to give up a little bit of their own...in order to create this common ground."

6) "I think it's time to send a clear message to what has become the most profitable sector in (the) entire economy that they are being watched."

(1) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/29/2004
(2) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 5/29/2007
(3) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(4) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(5) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(6) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 9/2/2005

Well, she IS Jewish. God also said He would choose their delusions. The Jews will be their own Messiah. Maybe they want to be their own Whore as well....they already WERE/ARE! or more likely, if she [billary] is the "annointed" to win the election, it is to fulfill a plot to pass off this entire nation as the Whore of Babylon, in order to goad all our enemies to attack us and destroy us in one last push.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city [America: www.originofnations.org/old_bi_literature/Pitts.htm ]: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

I didn't read all of it....Ron Hubbard et al are all just arms of the octopus known as today's version of Mystery Babylon....all of their manipulations are brought to nought if they don't work for God's plan....one of the most interesting things to me, was a link to David Koresh's Seven Seals. Didn't agree with all of what I read, but I agree that the first whore [Jerusalem] is typical of what we see now....the whore as revived in the Judeo-Masonic-Jesuit/Judeo-"Christian"/"Christian"-Zionist/and other APOSTATE CHURCHES, riding the Beast, the heathen United States government which is the revived Roman Empire, and the whole bastard child which is otherwise known as ZOG.

It remains to be seen exactly HOW this all plays out, but this was prophesied for America, and the final act IS known:

Zec 2:1 ¶ I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.

Zec 2:2 Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what [is] the breadth thereof, and what [is] the length thereof.

Zec 2:3 And, behold, the angel that talked with me went forth, and another angel went out to meet him,

Zec 2:4 And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited [as] towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:

Zec 2:5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.

Zec 2:6 ¶ Ho, ho, [come forth], and flee from the land of the north [I have my own interpretation of this: I see this as the spiritually bankrupt Northern Kingdom of Israel, presided over by the calf-worshipping priests, set up by Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim, and by the tribe of Dan, which was the NORTHERNMOST city, and was also on the NORTH side of the tabernacle...."the NORTH is a cold, DARK place" Night Killer freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re...cgi?ArtNum=64378&Disp=All comment #3, which morphed into the traditions of the Pharisees, the Talmud, Judaism, apostate Christianity, and the final Beast government, CorpUSA] , saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.

Zec 2:7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest [with] the daughter of Babylon.

[When God sent the calf-worshipping people (the Northern House of Israel) into captivity in Assyria, Babylonian people were brought into Samaria to replace them. They brought all their Babylonian gods with them, and God sent in lions as punishment, so the Assyrian king ordered that one of the (calf-worshipping) priests be brought back to teach the people "how to fear (know) the LORD". The result was an amalgamation of the apostate religion of the North and the Babylonian religions. This came to be the downfall of Judah as well:

Mic 1:5 For the transgression of Jacob [is] all this, and for the sins of the house of Israel. What [is] the transgression of Jacob? [is it] not Samaria? and what [are] the high places of Judah? [are they] not Jerusalem?

Mic 1:6 Therefore I will make Samaria as an heap of the field, [and] as plantings of a vineyard: and I will pour down the stones thereof into the valley, and I will discover the foundations thereof.

Mic 1:7 And all the graven images thereof shall be beaten to pieces, and all the hires thereof shall be burned with the fire, and all the idols thereof will I lay desolate: for she gathered [it] of the hire of an harlot, and they shall return to the hire of an harlot.

Mic 1:8 ¶ Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls.

Mic 1:9 For her wound [is] incurable; for it is come unto Judah; he is come unto the gate of my people, [even] to Jerusalem.

Our current Government, which despises true Christianity, and alligns itself with the Dalai Lama, the Synagogue of Satan, and any other apostate religion it meets, is the mirror image of that situation that prompted God to pluck the Northern kingdom out of the Holy Land. See Matthew 15:13]

Zec 2:8 ¶ For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

Zec 2:9 For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.

Zec 2:10 ¶ Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.

Zec 2:11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

Zec 2:12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem [the NEW, not the Old] again.

Zec 2:13 Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation.

Doesnt mean a real city..an earthly city as such as scripture is speaking again in an allegory.. the city that comes down from heaven is 'Jerusalem' which is of course the 'city' where the people of God 'reside'.. allegory again.. it's the Church.. and the people of God 'resided' in Jerusalem under the old Covenant .. which again is an allegory for God's people.. who 'prostituted' themselves as was spoken of by Ezekiel. All allegorical ..

I know this is what you believe....I'm still holding the thread where you made this point the other night....I disagreed then, and was too tired at that late hour to explain my point of view....I still disagree....and with all that is happening around us...I am convinced we are seeing the final battle, the Gog and Magog war, unfolding before and around us....the New Jerusalem "comes down from heaven", not just spiritually, but physically...prophecies of the New Israel/New Jerusalem where God's people would dwell in their own land, and NOT BE AFFLICTED by the children of wickedness, cannot by any stretch of the imagination be said to have occurred. [edited - can't see; can't spell!]

As a protestant, I can read anything in the Bible and come up with what **I** believe it means.

Therefore, in true protestant fashion, I proclaim the above to be incorrect. You see, there has been a mistranslation. The true and correct translation is "The whore WHO BABLES ON! The whore in question was someone's ex-girlfriend.

Isa 62:4 — Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

The gist of what I posted was that a co-founder of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Jack Parsons, along with Ron Hubbard (founder of Scientology), were both practicing what could be called Black Magick, performing a ritual in order to invoke the Whore of Babylon on earth by incarnating it into an unborn child.

..the bible is not a newspaper or Fox News filled with current events .. and what youre forgetting is that there is 2000 years of history .. that you've just erased in consideration of your viewpoint.. on one hand youre right in that it is a battle of good vs evil but not one in the physical it has to do with a spiritual battle..

This old testament scripture that is looking forward to the new Covenant.. allegorically speaking of 'land' the new Jerusalem.. the best way I can describe this to you in a simple manner is that the OT is like a little girl playing house with dolls.. to prepare the child for motherhood as an adult.. All of the OT is looking forward to the coming of the Messiah.. the time when the all the scripture prophesy is fulfilled in Him.

What are your thoughts on what follows below? Don't just disregard it as nutty, as everything written there can be verified.

Aleister Crowley's Lam & the Little Grey Men

A Striking Resemblance

by Daniel V. Boudillion

Report

Preface:

This report presupposes two very outlandish things: that there are "aliens", and that some people (occultists) have "magickal powers." It is not the point of this report to prove whether or not there are such beings or powers. What is known is that there are people who believe that there are such beings and believe that they have such powers. The crux of this report is based on what people believe, which may be very different from the way things really are. Please bear this in mind.

This report also recounts some very curious behavior on the part of a number of people. These behaviors and events actually did take place and are fact. However, the supposed results of these events are entirely subjective and entirely in the realm of belief. It is not my purpose to try to prove or disprove the beliefs of the people involved. It's what they did (and do) because of these beliefs that interest me.

Introduction:

I first became curious about a possible connection between the "grey aliens" of popular UFO culture and the activities of certain occultists after seeing several of UFO investigator Ray Fowler's books on the recommended reading list of a satanic website. In an idle moment I had done a Google search on Ray's book, The Watchers II, and one of the spots that listed it - much to my surprise - was the recommended reading list of a satanic group. (It is not my moral judgment that this group is satanic, the group itself calls itself satanic.)

I found this both disturbing and inexplicable - for what reason would a UFO book be included in the curriculum of a satanic group, and why Ray's book in particular? I emailed Ray and asked him if he had any insight into the situation, but he was as perplexed as I was. And there matters rested for a year or so until additional information came into my hands, information that may indicate - much as John Keel himself believed (Mothman Prophesies) - that occult activity may be an ingredient of the "grey alien" mystery.

The pictures below bear a resemblance and may hold the key. The first picture is a drawing made by occultist Alistair Crowley of an entity he had invoked repeatedly in 1918 and called "Lam." The second picture is a composite drawing by Ann Direnger (Contact of the 5th Kind - Imbrogno) of an "alien" type reported throughout 1980's in the Hudson Valley. Having noticed the similarity, I proceeded to investigate the connection.

Lam &n bsp; &nbs p; "Alien"

Purpose of the Report:

It is the purpose of this report to investigate a similarity and possible connection, and particularly answer the question "For what reason would a UFO book be included in the curriculum of a satanic group, and why Ray Fowler's book The Watchers II in particular?"

Investigation

Aleister Crowley:

The Englishman Aleister Crowley (1875 - 1947) was one of the most notorious occultists of his day, and perhaps of modern times. Self-styled as "The Beast 666," he went out of his way to live up to it with his sensationalism and self- promotion. He wrote a number of textbooks on ceremonial magick, most of which are still in print today. He also founded and was head of a number of occult fraternities. In short, he exerted a significant influence on occult circles that has continued to grow dramatically, long after his death.

The Amalantrah Working:

In January through March of 1918 Crowley began a series of magickal workings called the Amalantrah Workings in furnished rooms in Central Park West, New York City. These were a performed via Sexual & Ceremonial Magick (his spelling) with the intent to invoke certain "intelligences" to physical manifestation. In actuality, the workings typically manifested as a series of visions and communications received through the mediumship of his partner, Roddie Minor.

Be that as it may, at least one such "intelligence" was brought into physical manifestation via the Magickal Portal they created. (A portal in this context is a "magickally" created rent in the fabric of time and space.) The entity that came through is the one pictured above left. Crowley maintained the picture is actually a portrait and drawn from real life. This entity either called itself "Lam," or was named "Lam" by Crowley. Either way, he considered it to be of interdimensional origin, which was the term then for extraterrestrial. In communications with Lam, the symbolism of the egg featured prominently.

Crowley included the portrait of Lam in his Dead Souls exhibition held in Greenwich Village, New York, in 1919. In that same year it was published as a frontispiece labeled The Way to Crowley's commentary to Blavatsky's The Voice of the Silence. Beneath the picture was the following inscription: "LAM is the Tibetan word for Way or Path, and LAMA is He who Goeth, the specific title of the Gods of Egypt, the Treader of the Path, in Buddhistic phraseology. Its numerical value is 71, the number of this book."

Other than this, there is no commentary extant from Crowley upon the subject of Lam except for material published by disciples such as Kenneth Grant. Interestingly, Crowley gave the drawing to Grant in 1945.

Cult of Lam:

Since Crowley's time, several occult groups and individuals following in his footsteps have claimed to have intentionally and successfully contacted "Lam." Most notably, Michael Bertiaux in the 1960's followed by a group of O.T.O initiates in the 1970's. (The O.T.O. is the Ordo Templi Orientis, a Magickal order run by Crowley.) These individuals consider "Lam" to be a trans-mundane or extraterrestrial entity and claimed remarkable success in their invocations - if they are to be believed.
Following the success of these contacts, interest in occult circles, especially Crowleyian ones, gathered considerable steam. In 1987, Kenneth Grant, the generally acknowledged successor to Crowley, went so far as to formalize the Lam Workings into something called the Cult of Lam. To quote from Grant's Typhonian O.T.O. website:
"The Cult [of Lam] has been founded because very strong intimations have been received by Aossic Aiwass, 718'.' to the effect that the portrait of Lam (the original drawing of which was given by 666'.' to 718'.' under curious circumstances) is the present focus of an extra-terrestrial - and perhaps trans-plutonic - Energy which the O.T.O. is required to communicate at this critical period, for we have now entered the Eighties mentioned in The Book of the Law. It is Our aim to obtain some insight not only into the nature of Lam, but also into the possibilities of using the Egg as an astral space-capsule for travelling to Lam's domain, or for exploring extra-terrestrial spaces in the sense in which O.T.O. Tantric Time-Travelers are exploring the Tunnels of Set in intra-cosmic and chthonian capsules.
Members of the O.T.O. who feel strongly attracted to this Cult of Lam are invited to apply for participation therein. It is open only to Order members. They should contact Frater Ani Asig, 375'.' of the Sovereign Sanctuary, O.T.O. and submit a formal, typewritten and signed acceptance of the conditions of Working outlined here.

It should be understood that proficiency in the magical formulae of this Cult does not necessarily comport eligibility for advancement in the O.T.O., its parent Order."
Concurrently, a manuscript called "The Lam Statement" was circulated among O.T.O. initiates with a view to "regularizing the mode of rapport and constructing a magical formula for establishing communication with Lam."

Who is Lam?:

It is interesting to note that since Crowley's time, in occult terms at least, Lam is considered a class of entity rather than an individual being. When one invokes Lam, they are invoking an entity of that type, rather than a specific being. For occultists operating along O.T.O. lines, the idea is to invoke these Lam entities through Magickal Portals (intentionally created rents in time and space) into physical manifestation on planet earth. Why this is desirable is not always so clearly stated. (It often appears that within Crowleyian circles the working rule is often: "If Crowley did it, I want to do it, too.")

Michael Bertiaux, a Lam contactee and invoker of note, viewed Lam as the "subterranean burgeoning of Lucifer- Gnosis." Considering that Gnosis means an intuitive knowing, this would mean that knowing Lam is to know a welling-up from the unconscious of an inner knowing of Lucifer. (The Occult being the occult, it is important to bear in mind that occultists at least may not necessarily see Lucifer as the devil, but rather as a "light bringer" who fell to earth.)

Bertiaux goes on to say that Lam is the natural mode of human evolution in the present Aeon - indicating that to him and his followers this Lucifer-Gnosis is the appropriate path of human spiritual growth at this time.

Cowley termed the intentional cultivation of spiritual growth the "Great Work." And the Great work for Crowley, "...involved precisely the establishment of contact with non-human intelligences." Intelligences such as Lam. Using the language of Crowley's time, certain non-human intelligences such as Lam were what we today would term "extraterrestrial."

A Portal Opened:

It is generally agreed within occult circles that Crowley intentionally opened a portal of entry via magick ritual in the Amalantrah Workings which allowed the likes of Lam and other similar entities a passageway onto the earth-world. The rift "in-between the spaces of the stars," created by the Amalantrah Working, created a gateway through which Lam and other extra-cosmic influences could enter the known universe, and most particularly, our earth-world. According to occultists involved in such things, the Portal has since widened.

The Babylon Working:

According to occult lore, the Portal was further enlarged by a Jet Propulsion Laboratory founder and rocket fuel scientist named Jack Parsons, and Scientology and Dianetics founder L. Ron Hubbard in 1946, facilitating - so it is said - a monumental paradigm shift in human consciousness. This Magickal working was called the Babylon Working, and like the Amalantrah Working on which its ritual was patterned, it was based on ceremonial sex magick.

Together they "endeavoured to ... incarnate a physical aspect of Babylon, the Scarlet Woman of the Book of Revelations (17:3-6). They believed that Babylon was the herald of the new Age of Horus, and that Revelations was the understandably negative interpretation by those of the dying Age of Osiris."

The gist of it was that Parsons desired to take the spirit of Babylon, the "Whore of Babylon," and invest it in a human being. The idea was to create a child in the spiritual world, and then call down the spiritual baby and direct it into a human womb. When born, this child would incarnate the forces of Babylon, which they considered to be a good thing.

(Although Crowley had previously written the somewhat hilarious book Moonchild - concerning a similar experiment - he wrote in a letter: "Apparently Parsons and Hubbard or somebody is producing a moonchild. I get fairly frantic when I contemplate the idiocy of these louts.")

In any event, the rites were duly performed as written from January 4th to 15th of that year. It is not known if a spiritual child was enwombed from them. What is known is that the Magickal Portal first created by Crowley, and which originally let Lam into the earth-world, was reestablished with considerable intensity by Parsons and Hubbard. From the diaries of the participants, it is also clear that they were not as adept as Crowley in the closings of portals. What they seemed to have accomplished was the drastic enlargement and ripping of an existing Magickal Portal and the subsequent non-closure of it. Perhaps the rip they created was not possible to close. In any event, the modern UFO era began exactly a year and a half later on June 24th, 1947, with Kenneth Arnold's sighting over the Cascade Mountains in Washington State.

Grey Aliens:

The "grey aliens," slight-bodied, big-headed, large-dark-eyed manikin creatures are primarily an American phenomena. And, it is interesting to note that all the Lam workings were done in America.

Reports of these UFO-associated entities became prevalent in the 1980's and made the big time with Whitley Strieber's book Communion. The "greys" appear eerily similar to Lam, with the exception of Lam not having the large insectoid wraparound eyes reported of the "greys." However, there are variations of these small manikins that very much resemble a Lam. See the second of the two pictures at the top of this page. This entity is a composite of a variation commonly seen in the 1980's. Rather than grey, its skin tone is clay-white and the facial features are different. In fact, the resemblance to the Lam pictured by Crowley is virtually exact.

Also and perhaps most significantly, Kenneth Grant, head of the current O.T.O., states that: "Lam is a Great Old One whose archetype is recognizable in accounts of UFO occupants." It would seem from this official Typhonian statement that the current invokers of Lam are absolutely clear that Lam and the grey-aliens are one.

Satanism:

I am not an expert on Satanism, nor do I intend to be. However, there are some reasonably obvious things I have gleaned. First, Satanism is not a unified movement like Christianity or Islam. It is comprised of individuals with their own distinct ideas about what it means to be a Satanist. Second, to some it is a religion, to some a philosophy, to others a magickal path. Third, there is usually a thread of magickal interest in most Satanists of most types. And, where there is an interest in magick among Satanists, it is almost universally an interest in Crowleyian derived Magick.

Discussion

Back to the Questions:

The questions that initiated this investigation and report were: What possible connection is there between the "grey aliens" of popular UFO culture and the activities of certain occultists & for what reason would a UFO book be included in the curriculum of a satanic group, and why Ray Fowler's book The Watchers II in particular?

Question One Discussion:

Based on face value of the evidence, a theory could be constructed that not only are the Lams "grey aliens," but that the arrival of the "grey aliens" in American UFO culture was facilitated solely by the magical workings of Aleister Crowley and later disciples working in his footsteps. There are official O.T.O. groups today, such as the Cult of Lam, that are dedicated to invoking the Lam entities into the earth-world. According to their literature, not only is contact with non-human entities an integral component of spiritual growth, but the "Lam Consciousness" of Lucifer-Gnosis is the "natural mode of human evolution in the present Aeon." Thus these grey-alien/Lam entities are deemed worthy of invocation into the earth-world on behalf of the interests of humanity's evolution.

According to the face value of the evidence, one could also theorize that the Magickal Portal that Crowley created in the Amalantrah Working brought through the first of these beings. However, the Portal constructed was properly closed. In contrast, when Parsons and Hubbard did their similarly constructed Babylon working involving the opening of the same Portal, either they ripped the portal beyond ability to be repaired and closed, or it was enlarged beyond their ability to close it. In either case, the Portal - according to the evidence - has remained opened ever since to all manner of interdimensional entities to ingress upon the earth-world at will. The Parsons/Hubbard working effectively opened the world to the modern UFO entity situation. And, based on the Lucifer-Gnosis construct, O.T.O.-style occultists have continued to pull further interdimensional entities through this rip or unclosable portal.

Of course, Kenneth Grant's statement noted above ("Lam is a Great Old One whose archetype is recognizable in accounts of UFO occupants") is the final proof that the Crowleyian occultists fully believe that they are indeed invoking "grey aliens" into the earth-world.

Two Cents for John Keel:

Noted UFO/Fortean researcher and author John Keel felt that much of the paranormal situations he investigated, such as the "Mothman," were at root due to occult activity of some sort. And it looks like he was on to something.

Interestingly, part of the ritual for invoking Lam, or Lams, is to begin by meditating on the eyes of Crowley's Lam portrait. To quote Kenneth Grant: "To gaze into the eyes of this entity is to invite potent contact. One feels an immediate sensation of lightness, of weightlessness, and then a sensation of falling... of being sucked into a vortex...." Sound familiar? It is well known among UFO investigators that the eyes of the "grey aliens" have a powerful effect on the witness. Witnesses often feel like they are being sucked into their eyes. They also invoke deep feelings of fear.

Grant continues with instructions: "The eyes will enlarge and will suck in [your] consciousness until there arises a sensation of being within the entities head." (Again, this is presented as a good thing.) In any event, the first gate of consciousness is obviously through the eyes. And thus one who would meditate upon the eyes of a portrait of such a entity will indeed begin the process of opening a portal within themselves to the entity. In other words, you don't have to be a trained occultist to raise hell in yourself, which is also one of Keel's contentions.

Question Two Discussion:

Why would Ray Fowler's Watcher series be recommended by Satanists as part of their curriculum? First, most Satanists have an interest in magick. Second, the kind of magick is almost always Crowleyian magick. Third, a significant portion of the Crowleyain world feel that invoking Lam, or Lams, is a necessary part of moving human evolution ahead. Fourth, Lams are the occult label for "grey aliens." Fifth, the most comprehensive books on the habits and idiosyncrasies of the "greys" are Ray Fowler's Watcher series. If you want to know all about the "greys," you read Fowler.

Summary:

1) "Grey Aliens" are Lams, and were first contacted via magickal ritual by Alistair Crowley. Further magickal ritual along similar lines created a situation where direct access for these entities to the earth-world was established. Certain groups and people believe this to be beneficiary to humanity, and continue to draw these beings into the earth-world through magickal ritual via the original access point.

2) Satanists are involved in Crowleyain Lam invocations and recommend Ray's books for their extensive content on the habits and idiosyncrasies of the "greys" (Lams).

Conclusion:

It is now clear why Ray Fowler's books were recommended reading. This part of the puzzle, and the primary reason I wrote the report, has been solved to my satisfaction.

The secondary question raised by investigating the first (do "aliens" or "lams" actually exist) is a far different matter. People's actions are objective, but the motivations are based on the subjectivity of beliefs. What one person believes to be "reality" may not be in the least "real" to another.

At a certain level - and for the purposes of this report - it does not really matter if these beings and powers are objectively "real" or not. What is significant and of pertinence here is that many members of the occult community (O.T.O./Crowleyian) do indeed believe these beings and powers to be "real" and govern themselves accordingly. They spend considerable time attempting communication and invocation of them. They believe it is for the benefit of us all, although if this were generally known, I would think it would be a point of some considerable debate.

Addendum

Lam Lore:

According to O.T.O. chief Kenneth Grant:

Lam is known to be a link between the star systems of Sirius and Andromeda.
Lam is the gateway to the Void. Its number, 71, is that of "NoThing", an apparition.
Lam, as a Great Old One, whose archetype is recognizable in accounts of UFO occupants.
Lam has been invoked to fulfill the work set afoot by Aiwass; as a reflex of Aiwass.
Lam as the transmitter to AL of the vibrations of LA via MA, the key to the Aeon of Maat.
Lam is the occult energy beaming the vibrations of Maat and may proceed from that future aeon.

Finis

Comments may be addressed to the author at dvb@boudillion.com

Note: The Author is not an expert on Satanism or Crowleyism, nor is a member of any such groups or affiliated with any such groups. The author has no interest in corresponding on such subjects. If you have questions on such subjects, please refer them elsewhere.

Field Journal

None of the Scriptures quoted above are mentioned in relation to Jerusalem being the woman. When I find something so misconstrued at the very beginning it makes it difficult to proceed.

"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins

not at all....as the OT pointed toward Christ and was spiritually fulfilled in the New Covenant, the last 2000 years of history fulfill the other promise of a New Israel/New Jerusalem/promised land where the evil ones wouldn't afflict God's people anymore....

2Sa 7:10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,

1Ch 17:9 Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning,

In Ezekiel, as the Good Shepherd, God again said He was coming to take them TO THEIR OWN LAND:

Eze 34:13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.

Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

Mic 4:1 ¶ But in the last days it shall come to pass, [that] the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

[America is the only nation founded with a cross, on Jesus Christ and the spreading of the gospel, as much as the Jewish revisionists try to erase that history: Can't say 'Christian' at U.S. birthplace Guides at Jamestown allegedly gagged on Ten Commandments, Lord's Prayer http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54712 ].

Mic 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Mic 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Mic 4:4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make [them] afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken [it]......

Mic 4:6 ¶ In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted;

Mic 4:7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.

Mic 4:8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

Mic 4:9 ¶ Now why dost thou cry out aloud? [is there] no king in thee? is thy counsellor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail.

Mic 4:10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go [even] to Babylon [See Ezekiel 17:1-10/John 15:1/Matthew 15:13...it's a parable for the House of Israel: the Church]; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.

Mic 4:11 Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion.

Mic 4:12 But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.

Mic 4:13 Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the LORD, and their *** substance unto the Lord of the whole earth.

Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land [that is] not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years [see THE US IS STILL A (Judeo-)BRITISH COLONY, EXTORTING TAXES FOR THE CROWN];

Gen 15:14 And also that nation ["We are not Russian Jews, we are not American Jews. We are Jews...WE ARE ONE NATION."], whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great **** substance. [Micah 4:13].

"Thy seed" is Christ, and the promise, which was given before THE LAW, is a promise that pertains to the seed of Christ. The Israelites were treated well under Joseph, and multiplied exceedingly. It was only after a KING AROSE WHO KNEW NOT JOSEPH, did they begin to be afflicted. The king arose, according to historians, about 200 years after Joseph died at 110 years of age. When you do all the math, the Israelites were not afflicted 400 years, but approximately 160 years, before they came out of Egypt 430 years to the day. Christian America, on the other hand, has been afflicted from the very beginning. See THEY WERE WHITE AND THEY WERE SLAVES by Michael Hoffman.

Isa 62:4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

Isa 62:5 For [as] a young man marrieth a virgin, [so] shall thy sons marry thee: and [as] the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, [so] shall thy God rejoice over thee.

Isa 62:6 ¶ I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, [which] shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,

Isa 62:7 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.

Isa 62:8 The LORD hath sworn by his right hand, and by the arm of his strength, Surely I will no more give thy corn [to be] meat for thine enemies; and the sons of the stranger shall not drink thy wine, for the which thou hast laboured:

Isa 62:9 But they that have gathered it shall eat it, and praise the LORD; and they that have brought it together shall drink it in the courts of my holiness.

Isa 62:10 ¶ Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people.

Isa 62:11 Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward [is] with him, and his work before him.

Isa 62:12 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.

Isa 14:1 ¶ For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

Isa 14:2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

Isa 14:3 ¶ And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

Isa 14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, [and] the sceptre of the rulers.

Isa 14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, [and] none hindereth.

Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, [and] is quiet: they break forth into singing.

Isa 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, [and] the cedars of Lebanon, [saying], Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet [thee] at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, [even] all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Isa 14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [and] the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Isa 14:17 [That] made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; [that] opened not the house of his prisoners?

Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, [even] all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

Isa 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, [and as] the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

Isa 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, [and] slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Isa 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

Isa 14:22 ¶ For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

Isa 14:23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.

Isa 14:24 ¶ The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, [so] shall it stand:

Isa 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

Isa 14:26 This [is] the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this [is] the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.

Isa 14:27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul [it]? and his hand [is] stretched out, and who shall turn it back?

so..you are saying that the "Whore" is an actual woman? I don't think any of the early church ever saw it that way.

let's take another look at what the Bible says, comparing the priestly garments with the garments of the "woman":

The words purple scarlet gold occur in 12 verses. None are an exact phrase match:

Exd 28:5 And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen.

Exd 28:6 And they shall make the ephod [of] gold, [of] blue, and [of] purple, [of] scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work.

Exd 28:8 And the curious girdle of the ephod, which [is] upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; [even of] gold, [of] blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.

Exd 28:15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; [of] gold, [of] blue, and [of] purple, and [of] scarlet, and [of] fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.

Exd 28:33 And [beneath] upon the hem of it thou shalt make pomegranates [of] blue, and [of] purple, and [of] scarlet, round about the hem thereof; and bells of gold between them round about:

Exd 39:2 And he made the ephod [of] gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.

Exd 39:3 And they did beat the gold into thin plates, and cut [it into] wires, to work [it] in the blue, and in the purple, and in the scarlet, and in the fine linen, [with] cunning work.

Exd 39:5 And the curious girdle of his ephod, that [was] upon it, [was] of the same, according to the work thereof; [of] gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Exd 39:8 And he made the breastplate [of] cunning work, like the work of the ephod; [of] gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet,the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Rev 18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that **** great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet,>

1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Rev 11:8 — And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Eze 16:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity [is] of the land of Canaan; thy father [was] an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.....

Eze 16:10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.

Eze 16:11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.

Eze 16:12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.

Eze 16:13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment [was of] fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.

Eze 16:26 Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger.....

Eze 16:28 Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.....

Eze 16:32 [But as] a wife that committeth adultery, [which] taketh strangers instead of her husband!

Eze 16:33 They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom.

Eze 16:34 And the contrary is in thee from [other] women in thy whoredoms, whereas none followeth thee to commit whoredoms: and in that thou givest a reward, and no reward is given unto thee, therefore thou art contrary.

Eze 16:36 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them;

Eze 16:37 Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all [them] that thou hast loved, with all [them] that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.

Eze 16:38 And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.

Eze 16:39 And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.

Eze 16:40 They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords.

Eze 16:41 And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.

Eze 16:42 So will I make my fury toward thee to rest, and my jealousy shall depart from thee, and I will be quiet, and will be no more angry.

Eze 16:43 Because thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, but hast fretted me in all these [things]; behold, therefore I also will recompense thy way upon [thine] head, saith the Lord GOD: and thou shalt not commit this lewdness above all thine abominations.

Eze 16:44 ¶ Behold, every one that useth proverbs shall use [this] proverb against thee, saying, As [is] the mother, [so is] her daughter.

Eze 16:45 Thou [art] thy mother's daughter, that lotheth her husband and her children; and thou [art] the sister of thy sisters, which lothed their husbands and their children: your mother [was] an Hittite, and your father an Amorite.

Eze 16:46 And thine elder sister [is] Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, [is] Sodom and her daughters.

Eze 16:47 Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as [if that were] a very little [thing], thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways.

Eze 16:48 [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters......etc. etc. etc.

Rev 21:9 ¶ And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

*** Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

I'm a little confused...maybe you can answer a question for me...I have always read that a "woman" in the Bible is often understood to be a church...is this news to everyone else? not meaning to be 'smart', just trying to understand everyone else's point of view.

Eastern Christianity has generally held the Roman Empire of that time was the Whore of Babylon. It needs to be remembered he was in exile and his writing, by necessity, had to have a certain amount of mystery/symbolism attached to it so it could get out and be circulated. Also, bear in mind St John is writing about things present and things yet to come, and sometimes in the same sentence. The Roman Empire would continue it's attempted destruction of Christianity for almost another 220 years. Being overly simplistic, the Book of the Apocalypse is about Christ reigning victorious in the end. Whether that end being Constantine's conversion and ending the formal persecution, triumph after the great and terrible tribulation, or the final victory over death and the grave.

"What began in Russia will end in America."- 1930, Elder Ignatius of Harbin, Manchuria.

Yes, and I agree Jerusalem is described as a woman, and I agree that the House of Israel is described as a woman, and the House of Judah is described as a woman, and that the Whore of Babylon is described as a woman. I would agree that the church is also described as a woman. But, what woman ? Were you inferring that Jerusalem is the whore of Babylon ?

The WHORE of Babylon is the MOTHER of Harlots [Originator of Pagan Sun Worship, via Nimrod (a warrior against the Lord)]. And 99% of modern churches are (descendants) unwitting Sun Worshippers, having suffered a grand delusion.

Jerusalem after the Captivity of Judah was an offspring of the Whore (church) of Babylon, a daughter.

"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins

I think it is very difficult to provide accurate interpretations of the prophecies. and I certainly can't provide good answers. I try to caution people I know (outside this forum) that bible interpretations from christian leaders can easily be incorrect.

I remember a lesson a pastor gave us once that the bible was meant to be interpreted 'in the spirit'. and he used a bible verse to teach this, but I don't know where that verse is. I think there's some (few) bits of prophecies that are meant to be interpreted literally (and you can identify those because there's no other way to interpret them but literally), but most of the time I think it should be interpreted 'in the spirit' or symbolically.

per the bible god does want to marry his church and does describe it as a woman. You showed us certain verses that refer to this in Jeremiah 11 & 31. and I know the same idea is elsewhere too. and in those 2 chapters it said the marriage ended because the woman let god down. when a man is hurt by a woman in marriage due to her cheating on him, and the marriage ends, he can sometimes refer to her as a whore.

I remember the theme that jesus came into his own people (jewish people) and was rejected by them. and I remember the theme that people are very imperfect, sinners and can't do anything truly good (without god). but people are lured into believing in themselves, basically building idols up in their own minds over themselves and 'mankind'.

history unfolds as god wants it to, and it is done for god's purposes, not ours'. and so the same themes can be repeated in history to teach people what god wants us to learn. and thus the same details in the same prophecies can seem to refer to particular institutions at different times in history (perhaps). in other words the prophecies can have multiple meanings, at different times of history. but as this era of history (from god's view) goes on we are headed for a creschendo, a time of the end of this era, a time when the meanings we are supposed to learn become crystal clear to everyone open to believing.

you might enjoy a book by Verl Speeer called 'Pied Piper of Babylon'. I have a copy laying around here, but I can't find it now, I understand it is out of print. In that book he identified babylon as being the mercantile clique surrounding the federal reserve bank system and what this mercantile clique calls the 'new world order'. That book came out about 25-30 years ago.

Example of what I'm talking about - Revelation 13:1 describes this (I think 4'th beast) enabled to rule the world as rising from the sea. In the world of law for thousands of years the phrase 'law of the sea' has meant the treaties made between kings (or governments) to govern international trade. and today's new world order is rising out of such treaties that enable such groups as World Trade Organization, etc. It is these organizations that are non-profit corporations controlled by a mercantile clique, not by national governments or elected officials that are gaining great power. they seem to be ruling over (& dictating to) the national governments. The national governments are no longer listening to their own people or acting in the interests of their own people.

another verse that impresses me is Revelation 18:19 where it says this babylon was able to import massively due to its costliness. well, costliness means an expensive currency making everything sourced from that location of costliness costly. and that describes a scheme used prominently today. We in the US import massively, but don't export so much. Imports are 7% of our gdp, and no nation in history has ever sustained that for long. there is massive effort put into making the US dollar artificially costly. Merchants all over the world do in fact cooperate with the effort to do that so that they can export to the US.

I think that the rise of this 4'th beast that rules is described in Daniel chapter 11 is the same one that is described in Revelation 13 and is this new world order I've mentioned. and I actually think that the talk of 'north' and 'south' in Daniel 11 is referring to the American civil war. The north prevails and this establishes the beginning of the rule of this beast.

But there are many verses that support the idea that Babylon is this mercantile clique that is ruling from behind the scenes today. It is a multi-national clique. but it's power is centered here in America. Perhaps as an organization they may have a power center in Jerusalem. I have no idea.

1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

thank you for your replies....sorry, I got tired and went to bed last night...am just checking in....I've got things to do around the house today, but will get back to you later today or tomorrow....I think this is one of the most important discussions we could have in order to bring down the so-called "new world order".

noone: The WHORE of Babylon is the MOTHER of Harlots [Originator of Pagan Sun Worship, via Nimrod (a warrior against the Lord)]. And 99% of modern churches are (descendants) unwitting Sun Worshippers, having suffered a grand delusion.

Jerusalem after the Captivity of Judah was an offspring of the Whore (church) of Babylon, a daughter.

I think it started before that.....did I mention this recently, or did I imagine it.....i can'f find it...

2Ki 17:28 Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD. read the whole chapter!

It was one of the CALF-WORSHIPPING PRIESTS, taken from the lowest of the people. ....see Judges 18, and my recent posts on the tribe of Dan under religion.

Mic 1:5 For the transgression of Jacob [is] all this, and for the sins of the house of Israel. What [is] the transgression of Jacob? [is it] not Samaria? and what [are] the high places of Judah? [are they] not Jerusalem?

Mic 1:6 Therefore I will make Samaria as an heap of the field, [and] as plantings of a vineyard: and I will pour down the stones thereof into the valley, and I will discover the foundations thereof.

Mic 1:7 And all the graven images thereof shall be beaten to pieces, and all the hires thereof shall be burned with the fire, and all the idols thereof will I lay desolate: for she gathered [it] of the hire of an harlot, and they shall return to the hire of an harlot.

Mic 1:8 ¶ Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls.

Mic 1:9 For her wound [is] incurable; for it is come unto Judah; he is come unto the gate of my people, [even] to Jerusalem.....

"All that ever came before me were robbers and thieves....." , "....the ROBBERS of your people...."

my humble opinion, but i think y'all are giving far too much credit to hillary, a mere human female.

following up on FormerLurker's information I recall Daniel 2:43 where it seems to imply that this beast that rules in the end times has among it an alien race, where it says that they mix with the seed of man.

some of the schemes apparently used by the group that rules are very diabolically evil. and it has been remarked that such things aren't normally conceived of & carried out by human beings who usually have consciences.

1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm