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Title: The True Smoking Gun Aint Wtc7, and it isnt the Pentagon hole, or NORAD (Some theories and open source paper trails)
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URL Source: http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_C ... orum/index.php?showtopic=17310
Published: Oct 26, 2007
Author: 8bitagent
Post Date: 2007-10-26 07:28:43 by Kamala
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Keywords: 911
Views: 1023
Comments: 75
The True Smoking Gun Aint Wtc7, and it isnt the Pentagon hole, or NORAD No, in my 2 and a half years of exhaustive 9/11 research, the red hot smoking gun of 9/11 being something far more sinister than "Osama from a cave did 9/11" is... Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi. That's right, with truthers fumbling over themselves, getting into endless tiring circular debates with debunkers over "melting points", "free fall", "pentagon diameters", and truly bogus claims like "fatty Osama" and "Hijackers Alive!"... for *real* serious 9/11 researchers, the smoking guns were always the origins of the hijackers and the funding. So who is Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi? They were nothing short of Saudi Arabian General Intelligence Directive agents carefully monitored by the Pentagon, CIA whose every move was tracked as they were placed in one FBI/CIA safehouse in America to the next. The secret behind who these two 9/11 hijackers are is so dangerous, people have been taken out Livetenko style for trying to get at the truth. I know, I know...Im a disinfo shill because *gasp* I believe al Qaeda hijackers took over the plane, and *gasp* al Qaeda and Arab extremists were all over the 9/11 operation. What you may NOT realize is that Wahabist jihadists have always been the proxy tools of the global elite out of Europe to do their dirty work. Hitler and the Muslim Brotherhood to the Soviet Afghan war. You want shocking? The Pentagon and CIA PMC's were fighting right alongside al Qaeda fighters weeks before 9/11 in Macedonia. Most people dont realize that most if not all the 9/11 hijackers were meant to fight in Bosnia and Chechnya. The heads of al Qaeda were obsessed with fighting the Russians in Chechnya and Serbs in Kosovo/Albania/Macedonia/etc. So what is the smoking gun of 9/11? Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi *were* Saudi intelligence agents. The CIA had filmed them at a January 2000 Malaysian meeting. But conveniently never reported them to the FAA or anyone. No, in fact Saudi intelligence placed them with a top FBI informant in San Diego(whose terror funding partner rented out the house to Heavens Gate death cult in 1997) And what happened? Saudi princess Haifa and other top Saudi financiers sent the two 9/11 hijackers staying with Abusattar Sheikh(who had a bogus teaching credential and was a total intelligence asset for the FBI and CIA) a bunch of checks. And then what happened? Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi got sent to ANOTHER FBI informant safehouse, this time in Shrieveport, Louisiana. It was here that they continued the 9/11 operations with a protected FBI asset from Pakistan named Mr Jamal. Nawaf then goes off with other hijackers to Maryland, Almidhar goes off to New York. But then, Nawaf is found in Oklahoma, *gasp* not far from where most likely the FBI was doing a sting operation involving Zacharius Moussaoui and other hijackers. Relating quite possibly to Nick Berg The hijackers have a fun filled coke snorting hooker time in Vegas, possibly meeting with other CIA/FBI handlers posing as Muslim extremists, then its back down to Florida where a lot of them are safehoused by the owners of the Sun Tabloid who would coincidentally get attacked by Anthrax. The Sun Tabloid provides one of the main safehouses for the 9/11 hijackers. Funny, that Pentagon's Able Danger had been tracking Mohammed Atta and the hijackers...Atta, who clearly was being helped by CIA linked drug traffickers in Venice Florida. Meanwhile Israeli Mossad is crawling all over the 9/11 hijackers in Florida and elsewhere at this point...living next door, monitoring them. The cover story is they are trying to warn the CIA about the imminent threat. The ruse to ALL this is of course that HONEST FBI agents were told to shut up, and never mind these hijackers. The good portion of the FBI knew what was going on. Higher ups were surpressing them from going after well protected hijackers. The same hijackers allowed to have falsified Visas from Saudi Arabia thru the Visa express program. All the other stuff is important, but merely sprinkles on the cake. British MI6/ISI operative Omar Saeed was used to train the hijackers and be the Pakistani Intelligence fallboy scapegoat money middle man. Top Dubai officials, Dubai banks, Omar Saeed, Saudi Royals, and Ali Abdul Aziz Ali all helped with the financial aspect of 9/11, providing the "strict muslims" with all the money they needed to snort coke and sleep with prostitutes. Remember, Dubai is where ALL the money got conduited and funnelled through, some of it through Standard Charter Bank housed in the WTC7 from the Dubai headquarters Pakistani Intelligence controlled Khalid Shaek Mohammed and Ramzi bin Alshibh. Israeli Mossad and spies had infiltrated the plot and were busy compromising government buildings and telecommunications through Comverse-Odigo. US government/al Qaeda tech firm P-tech had infiltrated FAA computers and rendered them crippled on 9/11. MI6 protected Mohammed Zammar helps get together the young Muslims to be part of the Hamberg Cell. Israeli security ran all the security at the airports, including even where Richard Reid would try and pull his shenanigans. Advanced AI software within the twin towers had crippled networks and used them as slave networks for deep data security holes. If there was sabotaging of the twin towers, it came from Memphis terrorists posing as mechanical fixit men who had sprinkler maintanence passes in both towers the week before 9/11. Effectively rendering the sprinklers useless The exact floors where Flight 11 and Flight 175 hit respectively were reported to have been packed wall to wall with giant servers and black computer data boxes in Fuji Bank and Marsh and Mclennan...funny, as this is where the foundry of thermate comes rushing out on video. Possibly where the guidance system beacons were that helped navigate the planes in after the hijackers got control? And you guys want to know WHY Top Pentagon brass cancelled their flight to NYC the day before 9/11? Its because the secret service became aware of a Sudanese national plot to kill Bush and launch an attack the night before 9/11. Hours later at 6am in Florida a white van of "Arab" looking men approached Bush wanting to do an interview during his jog...you know, because 2 days after ISI agents blew up the Northern Alliance leader in Afghanistan after "just wanting an interview". Incidentally, these same "Arab looking men driving white vans" would be used in another aspect of 9/11 in NYC and NJ(Mossad) Also, two of the 9/11 hijackers were staying just a couple miles from Bush 2 days prior to 9/11, where Bush had missile batteries set up on his hotel roof, snipers everywhere and Coast Guard patrol boats. Whoah, thats a lot of security...but lo and behold, they sure kept him in the classroom reading My Pet Goat, even tho he clearly in danger of an assassination. Bush would be flown to Offut AFB in Nebraska after the White house claims a "high level threat penetrated the government saying Angel is Next, code for shooting down air force one". Aw, time to send Bush to Offut for more Manchurian Candidate programming? And so there you have 9/11. And who came up with the plans for 9/11? Well in 1992 a German couple convinced Mohammed Atta to come be part of a special US/German elite program called "CDG", short for Carl Duisberg Gesellschaft. (named after the man who ran Bayer, the company used to bring the world the Holocaust and AIDS, respectively) Well Atta soon became the main star of CDG. And lo and behold, Atta's closest pal in America is a CIA linked drug runner named Wolfgang Bohringer involved in neo Nazi pilot flying clubs. And who is one of the main people behind the CDG exchange program? Oh, why our old buddy, David Rockefeller. The creator of the Twin Towers, who along with the Bin Laden Construction group brought us the World Trade Center in the early 70's... and destroyed it a few decades later. with the ONE man who created the entire modern Osama al Qaeda meme, FBI agent John Oneil...dead in the north tower weeks after quitting the FBI because he felt they were purposefully allowing al Qaeda to operate. All for the globalist new world order, the only entity that could be patient and cunning enough to put this whole sick nightmare into place. I mean just recently it came out that the Lockerbie 1988 bombing was a total set up scam, that Mossad was behind the infamous Entebbe terror event, etc But noone talks about this stuff or pays attention. I'm merely cutting through the noise and disinfo and pointing out what many people have known all along. How many people know that the hijacker's weapons were preplaced underneath their seats, and they had guns and bombs to use? That was reported in MSNBC and Time. Or how about the FAA destroying the hijacker-FAA communication tapes? And hasnt it occured to MORE debunkers that Mohammed Atta was INTENTIONALLY trying to make as much noise as possible in the USA? I mean Atta lands in America and first thing he does "hey, Im looking to rent your cropdusters! Im a pilot...for Osama! hahaha!" He and other hijackers go out of their way to blow all their Arab state/western intelligence slush funds on hookers, coke. getting drunk, and being stupid. "But, but they were Taqfir adepts of Wahabism, it means they needed to blend into America by doing these things" the debunkers will say. Uh, yeah thats not exactly being under the radar. Check this out folks..Mohammed Atta and others are staying at a safehouse provided by the Sun Tabloid, linked to the CIA but still hit with anthrax. Atta and a pal were staying a MILE from Bush in Sarastota. And WHAT does Atta do? What does he do? He takes an impromptu flight to Portland Maine! WTF? Why? Why risk it? To meet with his intelligence handlers, thats why. Its something even the paid 9/11 investigators are scared to talk about. He then takes a puddle jumper cessna to Boston, rents a car...THEN gets into an almost physical confrontation with a man outside the airport just MINUTES before his 9/11 flight. THEN he *barely* makes it...and what do investigators find? His duffle bag mysteriously not on the plane, with a Q'uran, boxcutters, pilot outfit, terror training manual, list of the 19 hijackers, a will and flight sim games. They'd find the same in his rented car, and other hijackers dufflebags(they were checked in, why didnt they make it on the plane?) I mean come on. How bout we all take a trip to Shuckums bar in Florida and find out the REAL truth of Mohammed Atta? Hey we can all go to Supermax in Colorodo, and talk to both Zacharius Moussaoui and Terry Nichols and find out that government provocatueres were handling both of them in Norman Oklahoma. I respect Loose Change, Alex Jone's documentaries, and all the hard working people out there... But come on, the REAL path of 9/11...not the ABC Path To 9/11, not the Liberal "it was all incompetence", and certainly not the focus on drones/missiles IS out there. The nwo globalist perps behind 9/11 prefer people stick to circular debates. They want people to stick to arguing, and pointless inquiries. Why? Because the arteries that pumped the blood of 9/11 will never, ever be uncovered that way. The real story of 9/11 is a thousand times more "sexy" and upsetting and disturbing than the "cheney did it, missiles, drones, etc" meme, its just more tedious and complex and absolutely able to prove. The other 10% is a bit too dangerous and hot to handle. Keep in mind that the modern architect post Brzezinski of al Qaeda was an Egyptian named Ali Mohammed, a Special Forces/FBI/CIA guy who is the one who convinced Osama to be a super villian, created everything the media claims is related to al Qaeda(training manuals, training camps, etc) and is the architect of the 1998 embassy attacks. And where is he? Under witness protection. Has anyone ever wondered WHY there has not been a 9/11 trial? Theres only been three: The first two ended in releasing two of the Hamberg plotters in Germany and Spain The third was Zacharius Moussaoui, a big embarassment for the government as it was revealed that Moussaoui was under an FBI sting operation. Whoops. Sounds like WTC 1993 all over again. Debunkers, you have to ask yourself: what is the real reason Osama and Dr Ayman Zawahiri havent been caught/killed, and why were top al Qaeda men like Ali Mohammed, Abu Hamza, Haroon Aswat, Mohammed Zammar, etc allowed to run around free? Despite being under surveilence, or worse...intelligence assets. Wolfgang Bohringer was a total scumbag. He has a long history of drug smuggling, being a part of neo Nazi flying clubs in Germany, and working as an informant operative for the CIA So why would a Muslim fanatic like Mohammed Atta spend so much time with him and other European nationalist criminals in Florida? Jack Abramhoff's mafia ran Sun Cruz casino boat anyone? My research has shown that so many people from around the globe had a hand in the 9/11 pie, that it will take some deep unravelling to yank on that Jack and the beanstalk yarn to see where 9/11 REALLY leads...and I guarantee it leads not to Osama or Dick Cheney but someplace much higher...much deeper. Much more, upsetting. Heres all about Atta's best friend, Wolfgang Bohringer: www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BJovIhNrmE Aw, I had forgotten to mention Able Danger. "Third source back claims of Able Danger identifying Atta" www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167130,00.html Wasnt Able danger monitoring Atta, al-Midhar and al-Hamzi? These seem to be three candidates of being double agents or moles As for Khalid's funding or credit cards or whatever being used post 9/11... I guess it's possible he somehow ducked out of the flight and went abroad Or, his funding was used by other criminals involved Or they had stolen identities Im just saying, that the hijackers the government has told us hijacked the planes; at least several seemed to have been clearly intelligence assets. Incidentally, several of the hijackers live right next door to the WAMY terror funding charity ran by one of the men who was on the Richard Clarke bin laden flight on sept 13th ANOTHER top saudi official was staying in the same hotel as 3 of the hijackers the night before 911 www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer A pakistani man who did a 250 million dollar money deal with Osama's bank account in 2000 that he shared with him... was on the flight www.cooperativeresearch.org/context...m=a091301flight and then we find out some of the people on board those flights were killed not long after in various shootings I think a lot of the hijackers were brainwashed with mind control, used on them at the al Qud mosque in Hamberg Germany and by intelligence linked assets. It's clear the young hijacker accompanying Atta to Logan was scared and didnt know it would be a kamikaze mission. Atta even says "we have some planes" and then says that they'll land the plane. I think they were willing dupes. Al Qaeda was a willing participant in a way, even tho its rogue intelligence in the Arab and Western world puppeteering people like Khalid Mohammed. I think Mohammed Atta was clearly a mole, or agent meeting with European and intelligence handlers in both Maine, Vegas and Florida. Nawaf and Khalid were definately Saudi intelligence. My view is that they hijacked the planes, put in the coordinance their handlers told them, and boom. in the planes went, perhaps...even matching up to a prepositioned guidance beacon in the north and south tower, and pentagon respectively. Who knows I dont believe Flight 93 was shot down. Maybe a bomb went off. I do know the hijackers had guns and bombs, preplanted under the seats. And the first victim of 9/11 was a high level anti terrorist skyjacking commando from Israel who ran high technology firms named Daniel Lewin So many complex layer, I understand why its easier for people to shut off the brain and say "pffft, what al Qaeda? what hijackers?" This stuff takes work, hard work. And ya really have to have some sort of an open minded and patience toward seeing the big picture in how these arteries were set up during and after WW2 thru the Balkans, Egypt, Afghanistan, etc. Its more complex than "al CIAda"...but yes, none of these groups would be able to do a thing without being guided behind the scenes covertly and overtly mixing with Saudi and Pakistani financing. I'll tell ya, even high paid official investigators are scared to where a lot of 9/11 stuff leads, and theres a big reason the 9/11 commission skips over the era of the Balkans, Chechnya, Afghanistan circa 80's, Brooklyn in the early 90's, and Arab state financing. Of course 9/11 and what lead to it and what spirals from it is much bigger than that. Even an Arizona bootleg cigarette cartel in 2000/2001 racketeering scheme had to do with 9/11, as 9/11 was deeper than a national security apparatus or "Islamic terrorists" I can tell people this much. Ramzi Yousef, Khalid Mohammed, Mohammed Atta, and Osama definatley did not dream up the "planes flying into buildings" or 9/11 operation. The seeds and planning for 9/11 was very long, patient and criss crosses across the globe into areas most would not know how to contextualize. Who Killed John O'neil was onto something...but only a tiny fraction of the story. John O'neil was the sacrifcial lamb in this tragic story. A lot of 9/11 goes back to the Clinton administration, which I know people dont want to hear. Prior knowlege? Oh its a little more than prior knowlege Some of the 9/11 hijackers were jihadists under CIA front groups sponsoring Bosnian fighters against the Serbs as late as 1999. It goes back to the WTC 1993 when Mossad, ISI, and FBI all had informants and moles in that operation 9/11 has just as much to do with global corporations and drug running as it does with "tower implosions". Please point where where I say theres no prior knowlege? Even the braindead Democrats and Republicans who think "Osama did it" say theres forknowlege 9/11 is bigger than the typical "inside job" meme, and I wish people would do their own research instead of just parroting redundant talking points they read from sites. The attack on Pakistan is clearly an "inside job" because Pakistani ISI controls all the terrorism in Pakistan, and elsewhere for the most part. If you guys want Bush involvement, look no further than Riggs bank: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riggs_Bank#Sa...money_transfers While I dont think Bush was "in" on anything, or had any foreknowlege... Consider the fact that Bush had anti plane missiles set up on his hotel roof, snipers and patrol boats the day before 9/11 because of credible threats given to them from Sudanse nations and other "chatter"...and THEN 2 days after ISI blows up the head of Northern Alliance by posing as tv reporters, a van carrying four "Arab looking" men(Mossad?) comes up and asks to interview Bush as hes jogging at 6:05 AM in Florida the morning of 9/11. So by keeping him in the classroom, and saying to themselves "theres no threat", is a big lie. Full story about the assassination attempt on 9/11 www.madcowprod.com/09272007a.html We all know there's something not right about the truth of John O'neil, Mohammed Atta, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed(cough ISI cough), Omar Saeed aka "Mustafa Ahmed"(MI6/ISI) etc Hell John O'neil appears to have been killed and merely placed in the towers, and Who Killed John Oneil may be onto something with their ideas What I do know is that the REAL evil Arabs are the elites of Qatar, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc because they are not just new world order, they are in bed with the US government, england and the rest of the globalist scum waging war on humanity. The truth, while complex, of the deep corporate financial ties of corporations, front companies, drug running, arms smuggling, the Balkans, former soviet republics, Arab state banks and elites, state department officials, offshore accounts and "jihadist" terror networks is so intermingled...this supra national entity with no borders can tap into it. "the US did 9/11"...as if the evildoers in office care about the US and are even part of the US... People say Cheney did 9/11 and somehow the neocons masterminded 9/11? How did the US get Israel, England, the UAE, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc to be a part of this operation? The only answer is that a force above all these is able to play a shell game. Of course people get lazy and say "what Arabs? what hijackers?" Never mind the CIA set up a VAST network in the US and abroad with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan in Brooklyn throughout the globe post 1989 to create proxy jihadist fighters that they used even up til 9/11. In fact, weeks before 9/11 al Qaeda was FIGHTING WITH CIA spooks and Pentagon PMC's in Macedonia. That story got buried pretty quickly. And most the intelligence, FBI, millitary dont even know about this, or they just have a small piece of the puzzle. I know someone whose an analyst in intelligence and is starting to see the research Ive done checks out...but its like one of those things of "what can you do?" Very sad. If you see whose behind the global arms, child sex kidnapping, drug smuggling, and terrorism as well as globalization slavery its all by what people call "the new world order" Only when I say 9/11 was not an inside job, but an nwo job...I describe in detail *who* this nwo is. And it has to do with shell company upon shell company and their proxy rogue agents and terror/drug runners doing the work of very prominent business men and corporations. People think too much in terms of nation states and borders. Of course al Qaeda is state sponsored I tell people that say they are not, every terror group of any stature is allowed to do what they do because of state sponsoring. Ok consider this: Yasan al Qadi helped fund Ptech and BMI, as well as other companies. Hes a top al Qaeda financier and has had intimate dealings with both Saudi elites and al Qaeda leadership Ptech's Promis like software was on most top government computers, including the FAA on 9/11 with backdoor compromising software The FBI listed al Qadi as a top terror sponsor after 9/11, but the investigation into him and Ptech was HAULTED Turns out, I kid you not, al Qadi is good friends with Dick Cheney. His other company BMI was used by 9/11 head Thomas Keane in New Jersey And Moussaoui? He was controlled and funded by a Malaysian al Qaeda top financier who funded Infocus. He also used his condo as the infamous Kuala Lampur meetings, and let Nawaf, Khalid and Moussaoui live there Moussaoui was living with Menepta, who was Mcveigh's driver and WTC 1993 credit card funder. Moussaoio was living with other associates in Norman OK including Hussein al Attas, who drove him to Minnesota and was living with Menepta Menepta showed Mcveigh and the Iraqi nations the Dreamland motel in 1995, where Mcveigh and company plotted. Six weeks before 9/11, Atta and Moussaoui INSISTED on meeting with the 9/11 hijackers at...the Dreamland motel. Hussein al Attas was also living at the same apartment shared by Khalid and Nawaf al Hamzi ran by the top FBI informant Abdusattar Sheikh in San Diego where Atta also visited. Nawaf and Khalid were DIRECTLY funded by top Saudi government officials and elites. Checks being sent to that address. Moussaoui was being sent money by Ramzi bin alshidh. Mohammed Atta was being sent money by MI6/ISI Omar Saeed and ISI Generals. Nawaf and Khalid would then be moved to another FBI informant safehouse in Shreveport Louisiana Mohammed Atta and company would be safehoused by the Sun Tabloid ownes, weeks before they were attacked by anthrax. Atta and company would frequent Jack Abramhoff's Sun Cruz mafia ran boat casino. Now, think youre going to hear any of this in a "truther" film, no. Youre going to see endless youtube cobbled clips of "CD!" and Pentagon missiles Again, Im not poo pooing those documentaries. But lets face facts: The CIA KNEW the Kuala Lampur Malaysian apartment was being used as an al Qaeda 9/11 plot house The CIA WAS MONITORING Mohammed Atta and the Hamberg cell and this CIA man, David Eder watching Atta would be moved to Oklahoma University and Norman Oklahoma under Tenet's best friend David Boren(president of OU) *right* when Nick Berg was used to provocatuer, with FBI informant Menepta, Moussaoui and company. The London mosque's Abu Hamza was MI6, as was al Qud Hamberg mosque. This is where the hijackers got gathered. The plans to bomb the WTC in 1993 came from high level government files, "stolen" by the CIA's Ali Mohammed and delivered to the FBI provocatuered Brooklyn cell. THIS is how you prove WTC 1993, OKC and 9/11 were inside job false flags. The entire truth of 9/11 is contained in these articles FBI involved in safe harboring two of the hijackers www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20071014221652399 Bush assassination planned on 9/11 www.madcowprod.com/09272007a.html The Moussaoui-Nick Berg-Oklahoma City FBI sting operation www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=berg+...man&btnG=Search Atta was Rockefeller CDG asset www.radiofreeamerika.com/Opinion/9-...20ELITE%20U.htm Saudi intelligence involvement www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?C...umber=295787365 www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?C...=&vc=1&t=-1#Pos t295463160 full history of 9/11 www.globalresearch.ca/articles/KUP310A.html www.globalresearch.ca/articles/SCO410A.html Deep saudi intelligence involvement: www.911blogger.com/node/4878 forums.therandirhodesshow.com/lofiv...hp/t103601.html www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,...,846881,00.html www.storiesthatmatter.org/index.php...id=49&Itemid=29 Israeli spies and mossad involved in 9/11 www.cooperativeresearch.org/timelin...and_9/11=israel KSM=ISI asset www.commondreams.org/views03/0303-05.htm KSM killed in shootout in 2002: www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/DJ30Df01.html Sun tabloid hosted the hijackers before they got hit with anthrax: www.sptimes.com/News/101501/Worldan...nked_to_t.shtml Fuji bank and Marsh and Mclenan filled with thermate www.zeitenschrift.net/news/sne-12207-911.ihtml
Poster Comment: This guy is a great open source researcher.
A borderless supra national octopus able to tap into and use Saudi GID, Pakistani ISI, CIA, FBI, Mossad, MI6, the FAA, super computers, Dubai banks, Dubai royals, Saudi Jeddah immigration consulate, etc
Because nothing stays secret for long. All of this information is on the backpage or in international news or wherever, but truthers are so focused on this very sterile cartoonish "Bush and Cheney and robot planes and missiles did 9/11, Osama was framed" idea...they miss the big blues that truthers ignore or may not know about.
You folks want a bush connection? Try Riggs bank. Ran by Bush's uncle, it was shut down for being one of the go betweens between the Saudi royal funders and the 9/11 hijackers, among other criminal schemes.
I'd say 90% of the real truth of 9/11 is provable through legit sources, online mainstream news articles, analysis, etc.
I present the 3rd video on this page for evidence: www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/front/view/
9/11 is not a simple "mihop", "lihop" or "incompetence" meme as some think, it fact it gets REAL complex(like, the real reason John Oneil was killed, and it has everything to do with Saudi and intelligence backdoor stuff)
I think the following links will blow TRUE 9/11 truth seekers away:
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#1. To: Kamala (#0)
youtube.com/user/majorZIONISTplot
"You can not save the Constitution by destroying it."
Finally you guys wake up to the real info trail - the Truthers almost wrecked the truth with their BS.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
There is no need to be dismissive of the recorded evidence of demolition, so I consider this article to be so much garbage. In addition to being annoying on that count, it's also so boring and long that I couldn't finish it. IMO the alleged hijackers were being followed by Mossad so they could be disappeared on 9/11, among other reasons, and those with flight training were most likely being prepared to run contraband. Of course this is highly speculative, but then again so is all the high-level skullduggery alleged by the writer.
Hopsicker at MadCow has covered these details well (mentioned here). And all his articles have been posted on 4um. Bollyn's latest on 9/11: Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Superlative. It's the very complexity of this piece that testifies to it's authenticity. What Danny Casolaro referred to as the Octopus, and Dan Hopsicker calls the Covert Op that Ate the World, and even Peter Dale Scott's writings on the topic. And lest we forget, both French Intelligence and David Shales(?), ex-English spyman maintain that Mi6/CIA worked actively with AQ up until at least 1996, when they concocted a plan to kill Qaddafi. There's a reason why the USG would not allow anyone to investigate prior to 1996. A piece like this is encouraging, even though the sheer volume of data makes it far easier to go for simpler theories. This guy hits ALL the intersections leading upto the Attacks. Brilliant. Thanks for finding and posting.
hey, sg, good to see you again.
We'll probably never be able to figure out exactly what happened. As with the JFK assassination, the people responsible probably made the matter as complicated as they possibly could, so that nobody would ever be able to figure out the whole story, and shills would always be able to point out at least one flaw in every scenario anybody could come up with. It's enough to know our government has been lying to us about both matters, and no doubt a lot of other matters besides.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Thanks. If you want to wade through a masterpiece, try David Fromkin's A Peace to End All Peace about the breakup of the Ottoman Empire. And we think it's messy now.
His main point appears to be that the only facts worth investigating are facts "too hot to handle." So is thermite. He reminds me of that giddy army nurse idiot who claimed it was treasonous to question the Official Government conspiracy theory.
I was going to ping you. I knew you would like some of the info and links. Research and reading like this, takes a longer attention span. Sadly, most Americans are capable of just 10 second sound bites or clips.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
No shit. Covert ops by their very nature are lies within lies, cutouts, fake leads all leavened by PTB acting as those seeking the truth. Yup, most are comfortable with 2 variations; 19 Lone Wolf Arab types or the all powerful omniscient Mossad. The truth, as the piece above shows, is far more complex and convoluted. Be that as it may, as with many coverups, it has worked. We also forget how the hysteria over the Anthrax attacks in the immediate aftermath distracted everyone. In that time, lots of things were fixed. For how a coverup can be conducted successfully, with only a few key people required in critical situations, check out a new book call SCORPION DOWN by Ed Offley, concerning the sinking of USS Scorpion nuclear sub in the Atlantic in the 60's.
I got the impression from the reviews on Amazon that Offley was just speculating. How good is his evidence?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
He puts forward a decent circumstantial case. Anyway, with official secrecy blanketing most info, the best one can get is educated, informed speculation. Best thing, borrow it from the library and judge for yourself. He details timelines, motives and discrepancies in the official story. Motive: The sinking of a Russian submarine in the Pacific, the target of the Glomar Explored that raised part of it subsquently, a few months before. A US Sub that put in for extensive repairs behind heavy secrecy in Japan. Russians believed their sub was sunk by the US. Timeline: How senior admirals jiggered the timeline and conducted false searches. The existence of a Navy commnet that bypassed normal channels. Testimony via personal interviews with retired Senior Admirals that contradicted the official timeline. The sub sank before the official date noted. The Senior Admiral was not where he claimed to be.... The awarding of military honors to the dead of the Soviet sub and the Soviet POV. But a word about those Amazon reviews; a book that I considered fairly strong in its case about KAL007 was badmouthed. The Downing of KAL007 by Michel Blum (IIRC) a French aviation type got the same treatment. So I take those reviews with a grain of salt.
Shortly after John Walker was arrested, the FBI guy who was in charge of the case gave a talk to a bunch of us Naval intel types. I asked him after the talk how good the odds were that, with both the hardware gotten from the Pueblo and the keys gotten from the Walker ring, the Soviets were breaking our naval cyphers -- like what we had done to the Germans in WWII after similar intel coups. He pooh-poohed the idea.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Ah, yes, you reminded me. Offley describes that the Walker case may very well have allowed the Soviets a great ability to shadow and eavesdrop on the USN. He pretty much ridicules the idea of limited damage, saying that between the Walkers and another associate, the Soviets could shadow and listen in to the Navy Commnets. He details the hardware, software and actual transcipts handed over to the Soviets. Also touched on about how the Navy may not have levelled with the FBI on the true state of the damage caused.
Oh what a tangled web they have woven. My head hurts. Thanks for posting this.
"Dear Friends: I thank you for your assistance these many years. It seems, however, that my greatest utility to you has come to an end, and it is time to seclude myself from active service. I have been promoted to a higher do-nothing Senior Executive job outside of regular access to informaiton (sic) within the counterintelligence program. I am being isolated. Further, I believe I have detected repeated bursting radio signal emanations from my vehicle. The knowledge of their existence is sufficient. Amusing the games children play. Something has aroused the sleeping tiger. Perhaps you know better than I. Life is full of its ups and downs. I will be in contact next year, same time, same place. Perhaps the correlation of forces and circumstance then will have improved. Your friend, Ramon Garcia"
Just struck me about the similarities to the Kursk Submarine sinking. The USN back then tried to lay blame on a torpedo misfire, which is the official line of Russia on the Kursk sinking. There was also a US sub forced to do repairs in the Baltic around the same time. Just like in Japan after the Soviet sub went down. Would kinda explain some of Russia's change in attitude over the past few years.
O My Gosh - was eyeing it at Borders this afternoon. Thanks for the heads up.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
Just put a hold on it at the library. Love sub books.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
Watched the Enemy Below on TV the other night. Still remember the visceral experience of watching DasBoot on a big screen when it was first released. Fiction, yes, but like a punch to the stomach.
Most 9/11 "theorists" dont want to acknowlege al Qaeda exists. What they dont realize, is that at the top al Qaeda is controlled by the Arab and Western elites and corporations under the guise of drug running ops. The Balkan conflict plays so heavily into the 9/11 story, its amazing noone talks about it. You literally had the 9/11 hijackers living with a wide array of FBI informants, safehouses, and protected Islamic terror financiers/charities. The charities that were Hamas/al Qaeda fronts like WAMY that FBI agents were told not to go near, were some of the people hosting and funding the attacks, along with Saudi-Dubai-Pakistani elites. The whole WTC 1993 plot was a CIA setup through the MAK--al Kaifa refugee nexus in Brooklyn using Ali Mohammed and other agents. This was the beginning of the 9/11 operation. Pretty much the 19 hijackers and financiers were hand picked over the course of 10 years, from 1991 til 2001. In 1992 a German couple flies out to Cairo Egypt to convince a very young Mohammed Atta to come join the US/German elite government Rockefeller program "Carl Duizberg Society". In 1995 Atta is sending out all kinds of checks to Muslim terror bakeries, Balkan jihadists, etc. Nawaf al Hamzi and Khalid Midhar were CIA protected Balkan fighters. Atta later would be used as a drug runner. This is how 9/11 is proven to be a Western/Arab intelligence operation for supra national corporate means PTECH IS THE smoking gun of 9/11. If Ptech would have been exposed, the ENTIRE 9/11 operation would have been blown. Everyone talks about Sibel, and yes she has some good info. But what Indira Singh has to say is beyond explosive. Yet noone knows about her I urge every serious 9/11 truther to check out this video of government whistleblower Indira Singh. She was a RISK manager for JP Morgan and DARPA, and after working to help people on 9/11 at ground zero...soon was uncovering a CIA-al Qaeda front company called PTech. What she goes in detail to talk about is one of the most explosive smoking guns of 9/11. You may remember she was one of the first WTC7 triage people to come forward about WTC7 countdowns. pt 1 video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8...earch&plindex=0 pt 2 video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8063173299566696388 and the most explosive radio interview about 9/11 youll ever hear: (Indira Singh talking about high level corporate technology, intelligence, etc involved in 9/11) www.h- files.hraunfjord.org/Sweejak/singh_corbin_1.mp3 www.h- files.hraunfjord.org/Sweejak/..._corbin_1.2.mp3 www.h- files.hraunfjord.org/Sweejak/..._corbin_1.1.mp3 I want them to say "al Qaeda penetrated our networks" Thats the cover story of Ali Mohammed, the 1993 WTC and 1998 African embassy mastermind People focus on 9/11, not realizing almost ALL major terror events are connected to intelligence..7/7, 3/11, Bali, WTC 1993, USS Cole, African Embassy, etc. When the white house got scared on 9/11/2001 after "ANGEL IS NEXT" made them think a high level penetration was going on, it shows how deep 9/11 runs How deep? Osama's main financier was Yassin al-Qadi. He created Ptech and BMI(Thomas Keane did a lot of business with BMI and bin Mafouz in 1994) Well, just so happens Yassin al Qadi is good friends with Cheney, who pulled the plug on the FBI investigation into Ptech FBI agent Robert Wright was chasing Yassin, when he discovered the darkest secret... a secret Indira Singh was told not to look into further: al Qaeda is financed by the same people working with the corporate millitary industrial complex. Ptech had their backdoor PROMIS compromising AI software on virtually every government system on 9/11. Including the FAA where they had a whole unit in the bottom floor. They were able to help coordinate the FAA/NORAD false radar shenanigans. Ptech leads to the narco trafficking undercurrent that is one of the closest guarded secrets of 9/11. Drug money, and drug traffickers protected by the CIA were used for 9/11 and al Qaeda operations in the Balkans and Chechnya. Folks, Ptech is the REAL WTC7, the real smoking gun that proves that Western corporate elites and Arab state sponsors of al Qaeda are working hand in glove to create a terror economy. The US government is controlled by supra national organizations. Because Ptech, and other information Ive shown proves 100% that the Western and Arab global elites and corporations control "al Qaeda", are protected from the good guys in the FBI and CIA, and were behind 9/11. They cant refute Ptech, protected hijackers, FBI informant provocatuers, etc They cant explain why a protected FBI provocatuer instrumentally involved in WTC 1993, OKC 1995 and 9/11 is still on the loose. Or why the mastermind of 1993 WTC, USS cole, 1998 Embassy attacks, or 7/7 are out free and about under protection Or why FBI agents were told to back off from investigating the hijackers, flight schools, Saudi elite financiers of al Qaeda, or Osama himself. So they just sit there and call us "twoofers" , "moonbats", "deniers"(even tho they are denying anyone besides Osama was involved) Hell, I can prove that the plans and diagrams to blow up the twin towers in 1993 came from high level sources at Fort Bragg and even higher than that. And that evidence is from 1991 in the Rabi Khahne case.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
VERY interesting! THANKS for the info and links!
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. Inshallah, Kamala, that is one hell of a precis of events, motives, individuals and corporations. PTECH, the company that never was. So much for our much vaunted and touted free press.
bump
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! Bump for later
Stop foreign welfare NOW!
Bullshit.
... seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you...
There were no hijackers.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." ~ Patrick Henry
Like most good disinformation there are elements of truth interspersed with the false trail. Good disinformation requires establishing the bonafides of the disinformationist while discrediting alternatives to the disinformation. For example - ignore all that inconvenient evidence that points at high level government involvement: "The True Smoking Gun Aint Wtc7, and it isnt the Pentagon hole, or NORAD". Use derision to discredit anything which would cause questions to be raised about the disinformation to be presented: " That's right, with truthers fumbling over themselves, getting into endless tiring circular debates with debunkers over "melting points", "free fall", "pentagon diameters", and truly bogus claims like "fatty Osama" and "Hijackers Alive!"..." Then weave a pattern which establishes a credible alternative to what the observed data points at (all the better if you provide it breathlessly while trying to attack anyone who might provide a counter-argument): " I know, I know...Im a disinfo shill because *gasp* I believe al Qaeda hijackers took over the plane, and *gasp* al Qaeda and Arab extremists were all over the 9/11 operation." Then, as is done here, provide an alternative scenario which provides voluminous references to create the air of authority in the piece. This is a well crafted disinformation piece but it is still, in the final analysis, DISINFORMATION. Reference (This articles uses multiple techniques so I posted every part of the reference violated and while these were written to be largely applicable to forum discussions the same general principles apply to articles - but I could have missed one so don't take my word for it): Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation 3. Create rumor mongers. Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method which works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such 'arguable rumors'. If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a 'wild rumor' from a 'bunch of kids on the Internet' which can have no basis in fact. 4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues. 5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues. 8. Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough 'jargon' and 'minutia' to illustrate you are 'one who knows', and simply say it isn't so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources. 11. Establish and rely upon fall-back positions. Using a minor matter or element of the facts, take the 'high road' and 'confess' with candor that some innocent mistake, in hindsight, was made -- but that opponents have seized on the opportunity to blow it all out of proportion and imply greater criminalities which, 'just isn't so.' Others can reinforce this on your behalf, later, and even publicly 'call for an end to the nonsense' because you have already 'done the right thing.' Done properly, this can garner sympathy and respect for 'coming clean' and 'owning up' to your mistakes without addressing more serious issues. 12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to loose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues. 13. Alice in Wonderland Logic. Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards or with an apparent deductive logic which forbears any actual material fact. 15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions. This requires creative thinking unless the crime was planned with contingency conclusions in place. 17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues. 18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.' 20. False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations -- as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Al-Qaeda (Arabic translation: "The Toilet") exists all right. It exists in much the same fashion as "Emmanuel Goldstein". It is a convenient bogeyman that is everywhere and everywhen. It is a PsyOps/Intel creation that exists to present a false target. What bonafide Arab Terrist' group is going to name themselves after "the toilet"? Answer: Only someone who was not a native speaker of the language and unfamiliar with its colloquialisms. So, what does that tell us? "The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Word.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." ~ Patrick Henry
And we think it's messy now. On the Amazon list now, I see how understanding that subject is critical to understanding several World Wars.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" Yuktard is that really you? Aren't you a little far away from your protection? Sterno hallucinations cause you to lose your way?
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
What's your excuse?
Just bot it.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" What bonafide Arab Terrist' group is going to name themselves after "the toilet"? I've asked that same question many times. It's awfully funny that the "toilet" is an offshoot of a CIA operation isn't it? You know, the same CIA that armed and trained the mujahideen that fought against the Soviets in occupied Afghanistan..
Amazing how all these coincidences occur isn't it? Of course it could never be a black Op conspiracy. After all we know that conspiracies don't exist and never have. Just ask Lincoln and JFK.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
All of the above ARE NOT BS, and it's unfortunate that this person has decided to smear those that attempt to demonstrate common sense and elementary science to prove the 9/11 story as written is totally and absolutely impossible. I find it absurd that those that proclaim themselves advocates of "the REAL truth" attempt to disparage what little REAL evidence there is concerning the impossibility of the 9/11 legend. Not sure about the "fatty Osama" reference, but the towers DID collapse at a rate that is impossible IF there were no explosives used to help them fall. Addititionally, it IS rather interesting that at least SOME of the alleged hijackers are still alive, as has been reported globally with the exception of the US mainstream media. Melting points do come into play in regards to the steel of the WTC towers, and the Pentagon disaster is also rather dubious in regards to the complete disintegration of the majority of the alleged aircraft, where the wings, tail, and fuselage effectively vanished. This article more than likely lists some facts that ARE indeed pertinant, although they will more than likely be dismissed by many, simply because of the manner in which they were presented. Perhaps that was the whole idea...
Or Secretary of Defense Forrestal.
It's just amazing what a determined man can do with Bed Sheets.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
It refers to the fake Osama confession video - the actor in the video doesn't look all that close to the real Osama - much heavier and other features that don't match.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Actually, it was the belt of his bathrobe that was wrapped around his neck, or so I've read.. Strange how there were scratch marks on the window sill, as if he were trying to climb back in using his fingernails.
That's what I thought, but wasn't sure.
It's been a while since I read the account. I think it was DC Dave's Website.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
no, just ask Mister Clean and YertleTurtle ;)
Here's an interesting one.. I think that this has been discussed to death here and on other forums. The word "qa'eda" is a root that makes nouns, verbs, adjectives for seatedness, sitting, fixity, a base, stability, etc. It is used in the names of military "bases" in the Arab world and is also used in I.T. to refer to a "database." It is said that British spooks (that were in on the training that the US was giving Gulf Arabs to fight the Soviets) referred to the list of these cadres as "the database" or in Arabic "al Qa'eda." The name stuck & was used by Bin Ladin. It is an accident that "qa'eda" also means the crapper in colloqial Arabic.. It is a place that you're seated. Kind of like calling it the "throne."
Taking a page out of Byteshredder's play book now with names and graphix?
Sort of like a base for the ass?
The knee jerk, emotional reaction from a few of you is very typical. The very things you accuse the article of, you are guilty of. Closed minded beliefs will block other information that maybe important. There are many paths to follow on 911, not just the physical impossibilities. If this author is guilty of anything, it is concentrating only on the people/paper trail, not for disinformation. Paper, people and funding is an important part of any real independent investigation. Patsy organizations like Al Qaeda do exist. They are invented then they are controlled by informants and operatives. Is there a worldwide terrorist network organization? There is no evidence of one. Almost all are regional and small, concentrating on local conflicts and disputes. Yelling that Dick Cheney did 911, NORAD/NEADS, PNAC, or the Mossad, or Bush, shows how weak some individuals research really is. Were elements in our government involved in the plan, and helped carry 911 out? Absolutely, but again, they are just puppets taking orders. There are other levels above the criminals in our government controlling the events. Following the people and paper trail takes time, concentration and an attention span longer than a 10min youtube clip. Its dry, boring and complicated. Paul Thompson, Nafeez Ahmed and others lay out a trail of people and funding to start. 911 doesn't start and end in NY, or with Dr Steven Jones. That research is just a small piece of the whole. 911 has more to do with stealing multi trillions of dollars and protecting the global corporate-government players involved in war, oil, drugs, slavery, military hardware, and smuggling. It about washing money through banks, governments and corporations with the use of software and the world financial markets. All the SEC investigations were stored in WTC7. The very place of the Pentagon damage, is where the Navy investigation of the missing trillions by was being conducted. Guys like Silverstein, Rumsfeld, Cheney are just bit puppet players. The 911 cover is slight of hand, misdirection. Hey, look over here, 19 arabs did it. Hey, look over here, Silverstein did it. So on, and so on. While the peons are chasing crumbs, the real players are eating lobster and caviar. Look at the articles in 4ums 911 section. Look what and who has posted what. Everything is important. I've posted articles on fire and heat temps, bombs, thermite, FEMA, NIST, paper/people trails etc...911 truth involves more than ones self, but trying to awaken others to the official government lie about it. The NIST and 911 Commission are just a hypothesis. I've read just about everything I could, even things I don't agree with, but others believe to be important. If you can convince another citizen of how aspects of 911 leads its way through intelligence agencies, multi national banks, corporations, Saudi Arabia, the ISI of Pakistan with ties to individuals in the US government, what the problem? A lot of citizens are never going to grasp steel temps, free fall times, thermite, etc.., but explain to them the events/coincidences running up to 911, and you may spark an interest. A huge problem is surrounding events, become beliefs, not ideas. Once something becomes a belief, no new idea may change or be added. Many 911 truthers have single close mindedness, with only accepting one avenue of research. It is a giant mistake. Many are still guilty of shaking their fist at the hologram on the wall, and not the people behind the curtain. This is a big part of why, I don't reply and engage most anymore. 911 is over, but the wholesale worldwide criminal thievery continues. When Americans have lost their wealth, jobs and homes, "debating" whether the towers fell in 9 seconds or 14.7 seconds isn't going to be relevant when you are in a soup line and living on the curb.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Good to see you check in. Don't be a stranger. Take it easy.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Speaking of knee jerk reactions, did you even bother reading my comments? I didn't dispute the article's content, I disagreed with the author's approach, which is to smear those that have been actively seeking to present clear and factual scientific evidence that indisputably shows that the official 9/11 legend to be impossible. You appear to have latched on to this author's beliefs and jumped on his bandwagon, burning the bridges behind you that brought you to where you are.
in spite of the bickering regarding who/what/when/why/how, the information is out there and a majority of americans don't believe the government fairytale. isn't the percentage 86? let's not even mention the rest of the world's opinion. what's disgusting, however, is like with the Kennedy assassination, the perpetrators won't ever be punished.
Yes, understood, thank you.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." ~ Patrick Henry
Paper, people and funding is an important part of any real independent investigation. Patsy organizations like Al Qaeda do exist. They are invented then they are controlled by informants and operatives. Is there a worldwide terrorist network organization? There is no evidence of one. Almost all are regional and small, concentrating on local conflicts and disputes. Yelling that Dick Cheney did 911, NORAD/NEADS, PNAC, or the Mossad, or Bush, shows how weak some individuals research really is. Were elements in our government involved in the plan, and helped carry 911 out? Absolutely, but again, they are just puppets taking orders. There are other levels above the criminals in our government controlling the events. Following the people and paper trail takes time, concentration and an attention span longer than a 10min youtube clip. Its dry, boring and complicated. Paul Thompson, Nafeez Ahmed and others lay out a trail of people and funding to start. 911 doesn't start and end in NY, or with Dr Steven Jones. That research is just a small piece of the whole. 911 has more to do with stealing multi trillions of dollars and protecting the global corporate-government players involved in war, oil, drugs, slavery, military hardware, and smuggling. It about washing money through banks, governments and corporations with the use of software and the world financial markets. All the SEC investigations were stored in WTC7. The very place of the Pentagon damage, is where the Navy investigation of the missing trillions by was being conducted. Guys like Silverstein, Rumsfeld, Cheney are just bit puppet players. The 911 cover is slight of hand, misdirection. Hey, look over here, 19 arabs did it. Hey, look over here, Silverstein did it. So on, and so on. While the peons are chasing crumbs, the real players are eating lobster and caviar. Look at the articles in 4ums 911 section. Look what and who has posted what. Everything is important. I've posted articles on fire and heat temps, bombs, thermite, FEMA, NIST, paper/people trails etc...911 truth involves more than ones self, but trying to awaken others to the official government lie about it. The NIST and 911 Commission are just a hypothesis. I've read just about everything I could, even things I don't agree with, but others believe to be important. If you can convince another citizen of how aspects of 911 leads its way through intelligence agencies, multi national banks, corporations, Saudi Arabia, the ISI of Pakistan with ties to individuals in the US government, what the problem? A lot of citizens are never going to grasp steel temps, free fall times, thermite, etc.., but explain to them the events/coincidences running up to 911, and you may spark an interest. A huge problem is surrounding events, become beliefs, not ideas. Once something becomes a belief, no new idea may change or be added. Many 911 truthers have single close mindedness, with only accepting one avenue of research. It is a giant mistake. Many are still guilty of shaking their fist at the hologram on the wall, and not the people behind the curtain. This is a big part of why, I don't reply and engage most anymore. 911 is over, but the wholesale worldwide criminal thievery continues. When Americans have lost their wealth, jobs and homes, "debating" whether the towers fell in 9 seconds or 14.7 seconds isn't going to be relevant when you are in a soup line and living on the curb. You know what - I agree with much of what you said, but with a few caveats. The paper trail and the actual identities of the prime movers behind 911 and the "WaronTerra" is important. In fact I would go so far as to say it is vital data. However, making that point does not require the use of disinformation tactics such as name calling and denigrating other important information. Solving the problem, and getting people motivated to do something requires communicating to them and making the reality real to them. There is nothing in that prescription which requires personal attacks, derision, and use of other disinformation tactics. Doing so is nothing more than a wedge to splinter the cohesiveness of the movement that is growing up around the DEMAND for 911 truth, which is what worries the true people behind the attacks. Part of making things real for people is demonstrating in concrete terms how the observed phenomena paint a picture much different than the "Official Fairy Tale". To that end demonstrating that WTC 7 was not hit by a plane, did not have widespread fires, was evacuated by Rudy Boy and his crew 8 hours in advance of its collapse, was hardened to be an emergency Bunker, was reported to have collapsed a half an hour before it did by the BBC, and collapsed at a mere O.6 seconds slower than freefall neatly into its own footprint serves the useful end of demolishing the "Official Conspiracy Theory". You do not get peoples attention and pique their interest by insulting them and deriding them. You do it through simple demonstrations of how the actual observed data clearly contradicts the PsyOp Cover Legend. Once you have their attention then the brighter ones will be receptive to the more intricate aspects of tracing culpability. However, as important as the paper trail is, and it IS verrry important, it is secondary in getting people to wake up and to motivate them to decide that something needs to be done. The more obvious, and provable aspects, of the PsyOp are much more useful for that because until they cognite that it was an inside job they are not going to be willing to go through the minutiae of the paper chase, and truthfully many are mentally lazy and/or lack the intelligence to do it so it is lost on them from the get-go. Given this authors tactics in this piece I am left wondering what is true and what is not. Not that I doubt that 911 was an orchestrated inside job, but I question the veracity of the author. If it Quacks Like a Duck And Walks Like a Duck I Call it a Duck. When someone engages in the tactics of a disinformation agent I name it for what it is - disinformation. Remember the point I opened with in my first post on this thread: A good disinformationist will intersperse their disinformation with a liberal use of true data in order to make the disinformation credible.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
let's not even mention the rest of the world's opinion. what's disgusting, however, is like with the Kennedy assassination, the perpetrators won't ever be punished. Call me Quixotic, but I have not given up hope that some measure of justice will be done. However, at this point stopping their plans for a global tyranny is a starting point.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
no, just ask Mister Clean and YertleTurtle ;) LOL!
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
BTW, you DO realize that YOU posted that there IS Mossad involvement, do you not? From your article; Israeli spies and mossad involved in 9/11 www.cooperativeresearch.org/timelin...and_9/11=israel
I've read enough of the authors posts to believe he/she isn't about disinformation. I'll agree with you about the authors style, or delivery of the information contained in the post. Like I had said, the author actually maybe too dismissive of the physical impossibilities, too focused on just the paper trail. My real point is, I believe more should be open to all possible ideas. My ideas have changed somewhat over the years of reading.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
I never said the Mossad wasn't involved, but to claim that the Mossad did 911, and completely be in sole control of the events surrounding it, in my view, is not correct. They had their role to play.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
All this talk about about hijackers seems like a distraction because it looks to me like there were no hijackers and it's likely airliners weren't used in the attacks.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." ~ Patrick Henry
Oh, it is likely that they were used in the attacks, but I view it as unlikely that they actually piloted those planes into the targets. It was well beyond their known skills and abilities. Whether they were even on board is also open. How the planes, and which planes, were guided into their targets is still an open question. I think it apparent, from the circumstantial evidence, that some form of remote control was used, but what form still remains, in the public domain, an unknown.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Certainly not at the pentagon, anyway. There is evidence that suggests military aircraft were used to attack WTC 1 & 2. Remote control, for sure.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." ~ Patrick Henry
I don't know of many people that say "X" or "Y" did 9/11, but there are certainly those that have said "X" or "Y" may have been involved with and or complicit with 9/11, myself included. The few people I've ever seen use the word "did" in relation to 9/11 were yukon and palo.
My theory is that the persons alleged to be the hijackers were just decoys that pretended to get on the planes, whereas they didn't actually board the planes but slipped away after making sure they were seen on security cameras prior to boarding. The planes were then more than likely taken over by remote control.
Who wasn't mentioned? Your Mom? Your Dad? Your neighbor? Gee,I hope he isn't swarthy, ... you won't sleep a wink tonight!
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
Castro, Mafia, KGB...
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." ~ Patrick Henry
Completely agree with this. While extra dna was claimed to be discovered, it was never linked to the alleged hijackers. Even the names given later on the flight manifest of the hijackers is in question. There appears to be multiple fake idenities. So, who knows who really boarded the plane. These 4 flights on 911 were very odd. They were on an average 28% full. Normal coast to coast flights were 70%-90%, low occupancy was part of the terror/hijacking drills. Take a look at the hijackers, crews, employees and passengers on these flights. Some interesting names and occupations come up. These flights were actually part of the NORAD/NEADS hijacking terror drills, but instead they were real, not fake. My idea is, all of the hijackers/crew/passengers, were signed up as taking part of the drill, like bit actors. Codes were punched in, and the planes were guided to their targets. The passengers and employees on board were led to believe that the drill would be ended by landing somewhere, instead of being flown into buildings. Little did they know what was to come.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
What do you think of the idea that a missile hit the pentagon and the aircraft that hit WTC 1 & 2 were military?
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." ~ Patrick Henry
Well to this day, we have no video of a large airliner hitting the Pentagon, even though we have eyewitness's that claim they saw an airliner. There are small pieces of something, but where are the engines and other robust items? How did a "plasma" of gas/fuel, stay intact, and punch round holes through the inner rings? The photos are bizarre of the hole and path. Was there a fly over the Pentagon, then dumped into the ocean? A swap out of the planes that hit WTC 1&2 is possible, but where are the people? Did they dump the aircraft into the ocean too?
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Where the airliners went is a good question. I don't know, but I imagine whoever orchestrated the operation has the means to dispose of them somehow. Where are the people? Dead or in internment camps, underground maybe. God bless them wherever they are.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." ~ Patrick Henry
Here is a great interview about PTECH and Indira Singh.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Very interesting, thank you. I'm too tired to read the whole thing through as carefully as I'd like to, but have it bookmarked and will certainly look at it again later. Have you seen any of THIS ? Out.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." ~ Patrick Henry
Thanks for that link, it's been awhile since I looked at that possible explanation.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
#2. To: Kamala (#0)
#3. To: Kamala (#0)
(Edited)
#4. To: Kamala, Zipporah (#0)
freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=63985&Disp
#5. To: Kamala, Destro (#0)
#6. To: swarthyguy (#5)
#7. To: Kamala (#0)
#8. To: christine (#6)
#9. To: Kamala (#0)
#10. To: swarthyguy (#5)
#11. To: Kamala, aristeides, Fred_Mertz (#10)
#12. To: swarthyguy (#11)
#13. To: aristeides (#12)
#14. To: swarthyguy (#13)
#15. To: aristeides (#14)
(Edited)
#16. To: Kamala (#0)
#17. To: aristeides (#14)
He pooh-poohed the idea.
#18. To: aristeides (#14)
#19. To: swarthyguy (#8)
romkin's A Peace to End All Peace about the breakup of the Ottoman Empire.
#20. To: swarthyguy (#11)
SCORPION DOWN
#21. To: tom007 (#20)
#22. To: swarthyguy, *9-11*, Fred Mertz, aristeides, , *9-11* (#21)
#23. To: Kamala (#22)
Steven Wright
#24. To: Kamala (#22)
#25. To: Kamala, *Black Ops - Psyops* (#22)
The Revolution will not be televised!
#26. To: Kamala (#0)
#27. To: Kamala, whoever wrote this crap (#0)
#28. To: 8bitagent (#0)
#29. To: Kamala, christine, Wudidiz, TwentyTwelve, Zipporah, ratcat, Swarthy Guy, Pinguinite, Scrapper2, FOH, angle, all (#0)
#30. To: Kamala (#22)
Most 9/11 "theorists" dont want to acknowlege al Qaeda exists.
#31. To: Original_Intent, Kamala, christine, TwentyTwelve, Zipporah, ratcat, Swarthy Guy, Pinguinite, Scrapper2, FOH, angle, all (#29)
(Edited)
#32. To: Original_Intent (#30)
So, what does that tell us?
#33. To: swarthyguy (#8)
try David Fromkin's A Peace to End All Peace about the breakup of the Ottoman Empire.
#34. To: yukon, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, FOH (#32)
#35. To: Original_Intent (#34)
Sterno hallucinations cause you to lose your way?
#36. To: All (#33)
#37. To: Original_Intent (#30)
Al-Qaeda (Arabic translation: "The Toilet") exists all right. It exists in much the same fashion as "Emmanuel Goldstein". It is a convenient bogeyman that is everywhere and everywhen. It is a PsyOps/Intel creation that exists to present a false target.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#38. To: FormerLurker (#37)
#39. To: Kamala (#0)
That's right, with truthers fumbling over themselves, getting into endless tiring circular debates with debunkers over "melting points", "free fall", "pentagon diameters", and truly bogus claims like "fatty Osama" and "Hijackers Alive!"...
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#40. To: Original_Intent (#38)
After all we know that conspiracies don't exist and never have. Just ask Lincoln and JFK.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#41. To: FormerLurker (#40)
#42. To: FormerLurker (#39)
Not sure about the "fatty Osama" reference,
#43. To: Original_Intent (#41)
It's just amazing what a determined man can do with Bed Sheets.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#44. To: Original_Intent (#42)
It refers to the fake Osama confession video - the actor in the video doesn't look all that close to the real Osama - much heavier and other features that don't match.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#45. To: FormerLurker (#43)
#46. To: Original_Intent, Mister Clean, YertleTurtle (#38)
After all we know that conspiracies don't exist and never have. Just ask Lincoln and JFK.
#47. To: Original_Intent (#45)
It's been a while since I read the account. I think it was DC Dave's Website.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#48. To: Original_Intent (#30)
Only someone who was not a native speaker of the language and unfamiliar with its colloquialisms.
#49. To: yukon, Original_Intent (#32)
My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh
#50. To: randge (#48)
It is an accident that "qa'eda" also means the crapper in colloqial Arabic.. It is a place that you're seated. Kind of like calling it the "throne."
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#51. To: wudidiz, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, Christine, robin, swarthyguy, Zipporah (#31)
(Edited)
#52. To: swarthyguy (#24)
#53. To: Kamala (#51)
The knee jerk, emotional reaction from a few of you is very typical. The very things you accuse the article of, you are guilty of.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#54. To: Kamala (#51)
#55. To: Kamala (#51)
#56. To: Kamala, christine, Wudidiz, TwentyTwelve, Zipporah, ratcat, Swarthy Guy, Pinguinite, Scrapper2, FOH, angle, all (#51)
The knee jerk, emotional reaction from a few of you is very typical. The very things you accuse the article of, you are guilty of. Closed minded beliefs will block other information that maybe important. There are many paths to follow on 911, not just the physical impossibilities. If this author is guilty of anything, it is concentrating only on the people/paper trail, not for disinformation.
#57. To: christine, Kamala (#54)
the information is out there and a majority of americans don't believe the government fairytale. isn't the percentage 86?
#58. To: christine (#46)
After all we know that conspiracies don't exist and never have. Just ask Lincoln and JFK.
#59. To: Kamala (#51)
Yelling that Dick Cheney did 911, NORAD/NEADS, PNAC, or the Mossad, or Bush, shows how weak some individuals research really is.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#60. To: Original_Intent (#56)
#61. To: FormerLurker (#59)
#62. To: Kamala, Original_Intent, FormerLurker (#61)
#63. To: wudidiz (#62)
All this talk about about hijackers seems like a distraction because it looks to me like there were no hijackers and it's likely airliners weren't used in the attacks.
#64. To: Original_Intent (#63)
#65. To: Kamala (#61)
I never said the Mossad wasn't involved, but to claim that the Mossad did 911, and completely be in sole control of the events surrounding it, in my view, is not correct. They had their role to play.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#66. To: wudidiz, Original_Intent (#62)
All this talk about about hijackers seems like a distraction because it looks to me like there were no hijackers and it's likely airliners weren't used in the attacks.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#67. To: wudidiz, Kamala, whoever wrote this crap (#27)
Bullshit.
#68. To: iconoclast (#67)
Who wasn't mentioned?
#69. To: Original_Intent, Wudidiz, FormerLurker (#63)
(Edited)
#70. To: Kamala (#69)
#71. To: wudidiz (#70)
#72. To: Kamala (#71)
#73. To: wudidiz (#72)
ourworldinbalance.blogspo...tory-of-indira-singh.html
#74. To: Kamala, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, robin, christine, all (#73)
#75. To: wudidiz (#74)
The Revolution will not be televised!
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