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Title: Jews Are NOT The "Chosen People"
Source: Real Jew News
URL Source: http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=60
Published: Nov 9, 2007
Author: Brother Nathanael Kapner
Post Date: 2007-11-09 10:44:29 by BroNathanael
Keywords: Jews, Chosen People, Christians
Views: 452
Comments: 19

A Special Report By Former Jew Br Nathanael Kapner For: Real Jew News @ http://www.realjewnews.com **See Revealing Pics** @ http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=60

Jews Are NOT The "Chosen People"

HOW CAN THE JEWS who oppose their own Messiah, Jesus Christ, be the “Chosen People?” Did not St Paul the Hebrew of Hebrews say that the Jews are the enemies of the Cross? (Philipians 3 ).

When St Paul said, The Jews killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets; they please not God but are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath of God is come unto them to the uttermost, be the “Chosen People?”

And did not Jesus Christ Himself reveal that the Jews are of the Synagogue of Satan? (Revelations 2). Jesus Christ also revealed that the Jews are not true Jews when He said to the Christians of Asia Minor, I will make them who say they are Jews but are not, but do lie, to come and worship before thy feet. (Revelations 3).

How then can the so-called Jews who are now the enemies of the Cross and of the Synagogue of Satan, and who must worship at the feet of Christians, be the “Chosen People?”

Jesus Christ the Messiah of Israel denounced the Jews for rejecting Him when He said, Behold your house is left unto you desolate. Therefore, you shall not see Me until you say, Blessed is He Who cometh in the name of the Lord. (St Matthew 23)

How then can the Jews whose house is now desolate be the “Chosen People?” When the Jews cast in their teeth that they were the seed of Abraham, Jesus replied, You are of your father of the devil who was a murderer from the beginning. (St John 8).

Indeed the Jews committing the crime of all crimes, namely, Deicide, when they brought Jesus Christ to Pilate demanding that he crucify Jesus Christ even when Pilate wanted to let Him go. (St Matthew 27). How then can the Jews whose father is the devil and who crucified the Lord of Glory be the “Chosen People?”

DID NOT JESUS CHRIST say, Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees! For you compass sea and land to make one proselyte. And when he is made, you make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves? (St Matthew 23). Even secular Jews defer to the rabbis as their leaders when it comes to interpreting Jewish dogma. How then can the Jews who are children of hell be the “Chosen People?”

How could the Jews to whom Jesus Christ said, Because you do not believe, you are not of my sheep be the “Chosen People?” (St John 10). For to this day the majority of the Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ. What then is their “chosen-ness” if they are not of the Messiah’s sheep?

St John the apostle said, Many deceivers are gone out into the world who deny that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and anti christ. (II John 1). How then can the Jews who to this day deny that Jesus Christ the eternal Son of God became man for our salvation be the “Chosen People?” Will we be “deceived” by the Jews that they are the Chosen People? Again, what then is the Jews’ “chosen-ness?”

In the book of Revelations it is written: But the fearful and the unbelieving and the liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire. This is the second death.

1. The Jews are fearful of death.

2. The Jews are unbelieving. They do not believe in the God of the Bible but in the god of the Talmud.

3. The Jews are liars. For they say that they are God’s chosen people when God says that they are an “accursed people” because of their sins. (Isaiah 66:20).

——- Thus the “chosen-ness” of the Jews is their being chosen to experience the second death, that is, the “lake of fire. ——-

MOSES WHOM THE JEWS boast as being their hero pronounced a blessing and a curse on the Jews. God, said Moses, would bless the Jews if they showed their love for Him by accepting the “Prophet” Whose teachings would be required of the Jews. (Deuteronomy 13).

But the Jews crucified the “Prophet” rather than receiving His teachings on repentance and confession of his Divine right to demand obedience. Thus the curses that Moses pronounced upon the Jews have been the Jews’ experience over the last 2000 years. (Deuteronomy 28).

Hated, persecuted, censured, (rightly so), wandering from nation to nation when expelled from their host nations, and wreaking havoc wherever they go in their hatred of Christianity, the Jews have indeed experienced the curses predicted of them by Moses and thedesolation that Jesus Christ predicted of the Jews for rejecting Him.

JEWS ARE NOT THE “Chosen People.” Christians are the “Chosen People.” God said to Abraham, I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee. And in thy seed all of the nations shall be blessed (Genesis 12,26). What “blessings” have the Jews brought to the world since 33 A.D.? Just read today’s headlines and one can clearly see that “curses” have been brought upon society by the Jews.

The War in Iraq serves only the interests of the Jews and their promotion of the Christ-hating State of Israel. The tragedy of the World Trade Center was a result of the Jewish Zionist agenda. The secularization of Western society is caused by the Jews, which has debased the morals of once Christian nations, now rife with the abominations of anal sex if homosexuals and the perverse sexual conduct of lesbians. Are all of these things “blessings” from the so-called, “seed of Abraham,” the Jews? No. These are all “curses” brought upon us by the “seed of the devil,” the Jews.

Christians Are God’s “Chosen People” Not Jews. Christians are the “seed of Abraham.” This is what St Paul the Hebrew of Hebrews said over and over again. Here is one instance of St Paul’s many assertions Christians being the seed of Abraham: If ye be Christ’s then are ye Abraham’s seed. (Galatians 3:29).

WHEN JESUS CHRIST said to his disciples, “I have chosen you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should remain,” Christians were sealed as God’s Chosen Peoplefor all time. Jews can share in the Christians’ “chosen-ness.” Jews do not have to continue in a state of “accursedness” and “desolation.” Jesus Christ offers the Jews the chance to embrace Him and have His blessed name called upon them. Yes Jews if they will repent can be called Christians too!

Yes Jews, like myself, a former-Jew, and thousand of others like me, can say, “Blessed is He Who Comes in the name of the Lord! Then the Jews can look forward to heaven and not the lake of fire.

Brother Nathanael…Street Evangelist! @ http://www.brothernathanael.com/

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 15.

#3. To: BroNathanael (#0)

Jews can share in the Christians’ “chosen-ness.” Jews do not have to continue in a state of “accursedness” and “desolation.” Jesus Christ offers the Jews the chance to embrace Him and have His blessed name called upon them. Yes Jews if they will repent can be called Christians too!

Yes Jews, like myself, a former-Jew, and thousand of others like me, can say, “Blessed is He Who Comes in the name of the Lord! Then the Jews can look forward to heaven and not the lake of fire.

Amen.

1. The Jews are fearful of death.

2. The Jews are unbelieving. They do not believe in the God of the Bible but in the god of the Talmud.

This does not make for happy people. I think that's why they have the "take it while you can" attitude. They don't believe in an afterlife, and they don't belive they will be judged.

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom010.html#3

"Chapter 4. JESUS IS GOD

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9).

The fact that Jesus is God is as firmly established in Scripture as the fact that God is one. The Bible teaches that Jesus is fully God and fully man. In this chapter we will discuss the former; in Chapter 5 - THE SON OF GOD the latter.

In the next few sections we will present and discuss scriptural proofs that Jesus is God, numbering them for the reader's convenience.

The Old Testament Testifies That Jesus Is God

1. Isaiah 9:6 is one of the most powerful proofs that Jesus is God: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father The Prince of Peace." The terms child and son refer to the Incarnation or manifestation of "The mighty God" and "The everlasting Father." ...."

ourworld.compuserve.com/h...s/pentecostal/One-Ch4.htm

Isa 1:18 ¶ Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa001.html#18

www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Isa/1/18.html

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom 10:14 ¶ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom010.html#3

Blessings on you, Nathaniel.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2007-11-09   13:36:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

They don't believe in an afterlife, and they don't belive they will be judged.

That's not my understanding of Judaism.

robin  posted on  2007-11-09   13:53:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

They don't believe in an afterlife, and they don't belive they will be judged.

That's not my understanding of Judaism.

I could be wrong, but I read that more than once...maybe they were referring to those unGodly Jews who are really just atheists, folks like the Illuminati.

This Bible passage could have been written for folks like them:

Isa 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

Isa 29:11 ¶ And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which [men] deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it [is] sealed:

Isa 29:12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

Isa 29:13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Isa 29:14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, [even] a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise [men] shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent [men] shall be hid.

Isa 29:15 ¶ Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?......

www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Isa/29/15.html

....but the Bible says even they can come to repentance and the knowledge of Christ, and be saved.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2007-11-09   21:07:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Sorry no linK

Who Are God's Chosen People

By Ken Davies • 13320 Camino Canada, #6 • El Cajon, CA 92021

Does God have a “chosen people” today? If so, who are they? What makes them “chosen”? What were they chosen to do?

The answers to these questions can only be found in the Bible. As you study this subject in light of this essay, you may find that it contradicts what you have been taught. If this is so, it is because you have been taught a “system,” not the Bible. What does the term “chosen people” mean? Many think immediately of Israel. Is this correct? What does the Bible say:

“For you are a holy people to the Lord your God: the Lord your God has chosen you to be a special people to Himself, above all people that are on the face of the earth.” - Deut. 7:6

To whom was this spoken? A look at Deut. 6:3-4 reveals it was spoken to Israel. At that time, Israel consisted of all those that came out of Egypt with Moses (see Deut. 7:8). A very similar verse is Deut. 14:2: “For you are a holy people to the Lord your God, and the Lord has chosen you to be a peculiar people to Himself, above all the nations of the earth.” In 1 Chron. 16:13, Israel is called “His chosen ones”: “O you seed of Israel His servant, you children of Jacob, His chosen ones.” David wrote: “Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, and the people whom He has chosen...” (Psa. 33:12). And: “O you seed of Abraham His servant, you children of Jacob His chosen...He brought forth His people with joy, and His chosen with gladness.” (Psa. 105:6, 43).

Isaiah records these words from the Lord: “But you, Israel, are My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham, My friend...You are My servant; I have chosen you, and not cast you away.” (Isa. 41:8-9) “‘You are My witnesses,’ says the Lord, ‘and My servant whom I have chosen....’ ” (Isa. 43:10). “...I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to My people, My chosen.” (Isa. 43:20). “Yet hear now, O Jacob My servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:” (Isa. 44:1). In Isa. 48:12, the Lord refers to them as “My called,” and Daniel calls them “His chosen people” (11:15).

From the above, it can be seen that the phrase, “chosen people” definitely applied to Israel.

But, what was the composition of OT Israel? According to the Bible, Israel was made up of:

1. the descendants of Jacob (Ex. 1:1; Josh. 13:6, etc.), and, 2. those who joined Israel through circumcision and keeping the law (Ex. 12:48f).

Keeping the covenant was a requirement for all those who wished to remain a part of Israel: “And the uncircumcised male...shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.” (Gen. 17:14). “...whoever eats leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day [of the Feast of Unleavened Bread], that soul shall be cut off from Israel...for whoever eats anything leavened, that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is a stranger, or born in the land.” (Ex. 12:15,19). For other examples, see: Ex. 30:32,38; 31:14; Lev. 7:20-21, 25,27; 17:4,9-10, 14; 18:29; 19:8; and Num. 15:30-31.

These Scriptures, and many others, show that membership in the nation of Israel was dependent on obedience to God’s commandments. To disobey God was to lose one’s citizenship.

When most people think of O.T. Israel, they think exclusively in terms of Israel as a nation. Yet, this is not the true Biblical meaning of “Israel.” The Old Testament scholar A. R. Hulst has shown that the name “Israel” has always had a twofold significance: one national, and the other religious.1 For example: “...you [Israel] will be for Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” (Ex. 19:6). The prophecy of Amos (9:11-12) proclaims that the remnant of Israel would be “largely an entity of religious instead of national destination.”2

Isaiah says much the same thing: “[God’s] house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations. The sovereign Lord declares — He who gathers the exiles of Israel: I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered.” (Isa. 56:7-8).

The noted scholar Hans K. LaRondelle has demonstrated conclusively that the primary meaning of “Israel” in the O.T. “stands for the religious covenant community, the people who worship Yahweh in truth and Spirit. Secondarily, it denotes a distinct ethnic group or nation which is called to become spiritual Israel. Decisive for the Old Testament prophets and their prophecies is the theological quality of the ‘people of God,’ not their ethnic and political characteristics.”3

Contrary to the claims of Hal Lindsey, and other dispensational authors (Charles Ryrie, etc.4), the blessing of Israel’s election was not unconditional. “The purpose of the election is service, and when the service is withheld the election loses its meaning, and therefore fails....If she [Israel] ceased to acknowledge Yahweh to be her God, then she declared that she no longer wished to be His people. ....Her high calling to be the Chosen People was not the mark of Divine indulgence or favoritism, but a summons to a task exacting and unceasing, and election and task were so closely bound together that she could not have one without the other.”5

Did O.T. Israel lose her election? As Paul would say, “God forbid!” The Old Testament prophesied in many places that a “remnant” would be saved. The question is: Of whom was this remnant to consist? According to Jer. 31:31-34, the remnant would be made up of those who “know the Lord,” and whose sins would be forgiven completely (unlike under the Old Covenant - Heb. 10:1-4). This was to be made possible through the initiation of a “new covenant.” This New Covenant (or “Testament” -KJV) was ratified by Jesus at His crucifixion, shown to His disciples in symbolic form in the Last Supper (Mt. 26:28 and parallels; 1 Cor. 11:25).

Is New Testament Israel any different from Old Testament Israel? If so, how?

The Israel of the New Covenant is made up of:

1.

those descendants of Jacob who believed in the Messiah (Mt. 10:6; 15:24; Acts 2:36-41; 21:20, etc.), and, 2.

those who joined Israel through spiritual circumcision and the keeping of the new “law” (Rom. 2:28-29; 13:10; 1 Tim. 1:5).

With the establishment of the New Covenant, physical descent was no longer a determining factor for entrance into Israel. Only those who believed in the Messiah could enter or remain a part of Israel. Let us examine what the Bible has to say on the subject: “The Lord called you [Israel] a thriving olive tree with fruit beautiful in form. But with the roar of a mighty storm He will set it on fire, and its branches will be broken.” (Jer. 11:16). Verse 17 says this was directed to “the house of Israel, and the house of Judah.” Hosea says of Israel: “His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the olive tree....” (Hos. 14:6).

Paul picks up the olive tree motif in Rom. 11:17-24. He says those Jews who rejected the Messiah were themselves rejected and “broken off” (or cut off, to use the O.T. term) from the “olive tree” of Israel (v. 20). The apostle showed that the only possible way to remain a citizen of Israel was to believe in Jesus as Messiah. This citizenship was also offered to the Gentiles on the same condition. If they would put their faith in the Messiah of Israel, they would be made fellow citizens of Israel (cf. Eph. 2:19). “Christ created His Church, not beside Israel, but as the faithful remnant of Israel that inherits the covenant promises and responsibilities. Christ’s Church is not separated from the Israel of God, only from the Christ-rejecting Jewish nation.”6

The identification of the Church with Israel is explicit in Peter’s first epistle: “But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God....” (1 Pet. 2:9). Here, Peter definitively states that those who “believe” in Christ Jesus (1 Pet. 2:7) were the “chosen race” and the “holy nation” (1 Pet. 2:9; compare Ex. 19:6; Deut. 7:6; and 14:2). “Only in Christ could Israel as a nation have remained the true covenant people of God.”7 God’s covenant people are no longer distinguished by racial or territorial characteristics, but exclusively by their faith in Christ.8 And the land we have inherited is a spiritual one. The spiritual blessings of citizenship in the Israel of God are ours as Christians, but what of the “unconditional” land promises of the so-called “Palestinian Covenant”?

One of the most common assertions of the premillennial dispensationalist today is that the formation of the State of Israel in 1948 is proof that the Jews are still “God’s Chosen People,” and that He still has prophetic plans for them. (This has been asserted more vigorously than ever due to the recent hostilities in the Middle East). It is claimed that God was at work bringing the Jews back to their “ancient homeland,” and that they have a Biblical right to claim Palestine as their own.9 Are these claims correct? Was the formation of the State of Israel evidence of God’s blessing? Of God’s election?

Just what Scriptures do dispensationalists use to support these claims? How do they come to their conclusions? As you may know already, the dispensationalist uses what he calls a “literal hermeneutic.” That is, he claims to interpret the words of the Bible at face value, understanding them in their “normal,” everyday usage and meaning.10 This extremely literal hermeneutic is then used to “interpret” the prophecies of the Old Testament that speak of the return of God’s people to the Holy Land. However, this literalism is also used as an excuse to ignore the plain reinterpretation by the New Testament writers of these very same prophecies. Even when the inspired writers of the N.T. give a meaning to the O.T. prophecies other than a “literal” one, the dispensationalist will say that this is not the complete meaning, and that these prophecies “remain to be realized for Israel.”11

One of the Scriptures the dispensationalist claims was fulfilled by the 1948 formation of the State of Israel is found in Ezek. 36-37. This prophecy was given to Ezekiel during the Babylonian captivity (Ezek. 1:1-2), and foretold the eventual return of Israel to their land. Tied in with this prophecy was the prediction of the coming Messiah (Ezek. 38:24), and the inauguration of the New Covenant (Ezek. 38:26-28). As we know from both secular history and the New Testament, the people did return to the land and the Messiah did come and establish the New Covenant (Mt. 26:28). Despite this, dispensationalists deny fulfillment of either of these prophecies, saying they found only a “partial fulfillment” in Israel’s return and Christ’s first advent.12 They further allege that the regathering of Jews to form the current State of Israel is part of the final fulfillment. They say the blessings of the “Palestinian Covenant” are only now coming into existence. The promises of such passages as Deut. 30 are touted as “Scriptural basis” for Israel’s regathering.13 How should we answer such claims?

According to Deut. 30:1-8, a necessary condition for the regathering of Israel to Palestine was returning to the Lord: “And [when you] shall return to the Lord your God, and shall obey His voice...with all your heart, and all your soul, then the Lord your God will bring you back from captivity....” (vs.2-3).

Based on this clear passage of Scripture, it can be definitely concluded that the State of Israel which now exists was not formed as a result of the blessings of this covenant (the “Palestinian Covenant” of the Scofield Bible).

The Jews of 1948 (except for maybe a few isolated individuals) did not turn to the Lord. And, to base the formation of Israel upon their alleged “faithfulness” to Judaism is to betray a fundamental misunderstanding of what Judaism is. Some think the Jew of today has a special advantage, perhaps even salvation without Christ, because they believe in the God of the Old Testament, and follow the Old Testament religion. This overlooks the fact that the religion of the Old Testament was based on making sacrifices for sins (Lev. 17:11). It also ignores the statements of the New Testament that there is absolutely NO salvation outside Christ (John 14:6; Acts 4:10-12), and that the Old Testament religion was no longer efficacious (Heb. 7-10). The Lord of the New Testament is Jesus. This revelation casts light on who the Lord of the Old Testament is. For example, Peter quotes Joel 2:32 as being fulfilled in Jesus: “Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Acts 2:21).

What shall we answer when the dispensationalist claims the existence of the State of Israel today is “proof” of God’s covenant blessing upon them? With the clear backing of Scripture, we can say, “NO!” We can then point to Deut. 30:1-8 as proof that the Israel of today is definitely not the Israel of the Bible! But, what about the land promised to Abraham?

Paul, in citing the promise to Abraham, does not limit the territory to Palestine: “It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.” (Rom. 4:13). This is an extension of the statement of Jesus in Mt. 5:5, in which the meek shall inherit not merely Palestine, but “the earth.” As you can see, the inheritance is for “Abraham and his offspring.” The dispensationalist believes Jewish people are entitled to the inheritance based on their racial extraction or ethnic heritage. But, Paul counters this idea in Gal. 3:7,29: “Know for sure that only those who are of faith are the sons of Abraham. If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” In case he hasn’t made it clear enough, Paul reiterates for those who expect some special privilege for physical descendants of Abraham: “Now to Abraham’s and his seed the promises were made. He does not say, ‘And to seeds,’ as of many, but as of one, ‘And to your seed,’ who is Christ” (Gal. 3:16). The only way to inherit anything is in Christ! The Jewish leaders who came to John the Baptist thought the Kingdom was theirs automatically by virtue of their heritage: “Do not think to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones!” (Mt. 3:9).

Apostle Paul states the nature of true Jewishness: “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter...” (Rom. 2:28,29; cf. Rom. 9:6-8; 11:5-7).

“The full scope of Israel’s prophets was not nationalistic, but universal, with an increasing cosmic dimension which took in heaven and earth (Isa. 65:17; 24:21-23).”14 The writer of Hebrews assures them Abraham was not looking merely to Palestine for fulfillment of the promises. He looked for “a better country,” and a city “whose builder and maker is God” (Heb. 11:10,16). “The continuity of the O.T. terms and Middle East images in Hebrews assures the Church that God’s promise has neither failed nor been postponed, but is experienced now in Christ (Heb. 6:5)....”15 And, the land promises made to Abraham are fulfilled in the universal Kingdom of God.

In conclusion, we have studied the subject of who God’s Chosen People are, and have found that, according to the Bible, Israel is now composed of all those who believe in Jesus as Messiah. It is not correct, therefore, to state that the Church has replaced Israel. Rather, the Church is the continuity of the Old Testament Israel of God; it has only replaced the Jewish nation “16 There is no more “Jew” and “Gentile” racial distinctions. All nations are now a part of Spiritual Israel in Christ. Christ’s kingdom is here now in fullness. All (who were a part of the true spiritual) Israel were saved and given the inheritance (Rom. 11:26).

With the advent of the war in the Middle East, many people are wondering what is taking place in a prophetic sense. As preterists, we can say with assurance that the events now taking place are NOT a fulfillment of prophecy. We know that all prophecy was fulfilled in A.D. 70, at which time the New Covenant was fully established, making the Kingdom available to all who would believe in Jesus as Savior (Messiah). Some emotionalism is understandable in time of war. However, we need not fear the Great Tribulation or being “left behind” in the Rapture. We know by the time limitations recorded in the New Testament that these things have already occurred, and we are living in the new spiritual promised land.

robnoel  posted on  2007-11-10   13:42:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The identification of the Church with Israel is explicit in Peter’s first epistle: “But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God....” (1 Pet. 2:9). Here, Peter definitively states that those who “believe” in Christ Jesus (1 Pet. 2:7) were the “chosen race” and the “holy nation” (1 Pet. 2:9; compare Ex. 19:6; Deut. 7:6; and 14:2). “Only in Christ could Israel as a nation have remained the true covenant people of God.”7 God’s covenant people are no longer distinguished by racial or territorial characteristics, but exclusively by their faith in Christ.8 And the land we have inherited is a spiritual one. The spiritual blessings of citizenship in the Israel of God are ours as Christians, but what of the “unconditional” land promises of the so-called “Palestinian Covenant”?

A little dilemma: l Peter 2:9 has three phrases each beginning with "a", i.e., 'a holy nation'. And yet, the author tells us that Peter definitvely states 'the' chosen race, or 'the' holy nation.

Words have meaning.....and 'a' and 'the' do not mean the same thing at all.

Now I have to start reading again--in a new light. :(

rowdee  posted on  2007-11-10   14:51:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I have asked many smarter than me to explain "chosen people" and although they get there on different paths it comes down to those who accept Jesus as the messiah....never got into the "a" or "the" thing.

robnoel  posted on  2007-11-10   15:08:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I've heard discussions, and read, read, read......and being chosen certainly doesn't seem to be a case of 'Mom loves me best', as seems to be the current jewish thought...at least not in my reading/hearing.

As it regards the use of 'a' or 'the'.......a ball is just any ball; the ball is a specific ball. A nation would be just any nation; the nation is a specific nation.

I believe it is Greek, as the New Testament language that does not use the definite article "the'.

But that is just one of many language problems to contend with as we read and learn. The 'interchangeable' use of Israel, Judah, Hebrew, and Jew drives me crazy...because they are not one in the same.

rowdee  posted on  2007-11-10   15:42:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#19. To: rowdee (#15)

As it regards the use of 'a' or 'the'.......a ball is just any ball; the ball is a specific ball. A nation would be just any nation; the nation is a specific nation.

even a comma can make a big difference....see the different versions for Isaiah 9:6....some leave out a comma after "Wonderful", making it an adjective, rather than a proper noun:

www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa009.html#6 [hit "V" for versions]

see:

Jdg 13:21 But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he [was] an angel of the LORD.

Jdg 13:22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.

www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jdg/Jdg013.html#22

Jdg 13:18 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it [is] secret?

www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jdg/Jdg013.html#18

The "angel" was the pre-incarnate Jesus: www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn001.html#18 / www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Jhn/1/18.html [scroll down to Exodus 33:20]

....and His name should not have been translated "secret" but "Wonderful":

secret "or, wonderful. It was because his name was secret that Manoah wished to know it. But the angel does not say it was secret, but hoo pailee, ""it is wonderful;"" the very character given to the Messiah: ""His name shall be called pailai, Wonderful,"" Isa 9:6."

www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Jdg/13/18.html

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa009.html#6

I believe there is a bit of a conspiracy here. Note who these people were:

Jdg 13:2 ¶ And there was a certain man of Zorah, of the family of the Danites, whose name [was] Manoah; and his wife [was] barren, and bare not.

[a whole other story]

now I have other things to do until I can put together the other thread I mentioned. I've got a lot of things going on here now.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2007-11-11 11:32:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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