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Title: There Are Too Many Veterans
Source:
Lew Rockwell
URL Source: http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance126.html
Published: Nov 12, 2007
Author: Laurence Vance
Post Date: 2007-11-12 06:41:23 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 2544
Comments: 251
We have too many veterans. We have too many living veterans. We have too many dead veterans. We have too many wounded veterans. We have too many disabled veterans. We have too many veterans who have fought in wars. We have too many veterans who have never fired a shot. Any way you look at it, we have too many veterans. Veterans Day began as Armistice Day – a day to commemorate the signing of the armistice on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month that ended fighting on the Western Front in World War I, "the war to end all wars." A few years after World War II, the holiday was changed to Veterans Day as a tribute to all soldiers who fought for their country. Veterans Day has now become a day to honor, not just those who have served in the military during wartime, but those who have served during peacetime or are serving now. It has also become a day – even though we have Armed Forces Day – to recognize all things military. Why? Why do most Americans hold veterans and current members of the U.S. military in such high esteem? Why is there such a military mindset in the United States? One reason people feel this way is because they falsely believe that those who serve in the military are somehow defending our freedoms. They are convinced that it is the military that stands between a free society and subjugation by some foreign power. They think that it is because of the military that we still have our First Amendment rights. It is inevitable that whenever I write about the military I receive an e-mail or two from a current or former member of the military who closes his rebuke (which usually argues that I have the freedom to write the "trash" that I write because of the U.S. military) with this simplistic cliché: "If you can read this e-mail, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank a Marine." Has anyone ever thought this through? Are we are supposed to believe that the German army that couldn’t cross the English Channel to invade Great Britain and make its population speak German was going to cross the Atlantic Ocean to invade the United States and make us all speak German if it wasn’t for the Marines? Or was it Japanese that the Marines kept us from speaking? Or perhaps it was Spanish because of the tremendous threat we faced from Spain during the Spanish-American War? Were we in danger of having to speak Russian during the Cold War? Looking at the history of U.S. military interventions, there is one thing we can thank the Marines for: We can thank the Marines for helping to carry out an evil, interventionist U.S. foreign policy. Thanks a lot, jarheads. Semper Fi and all that jazz. Our freedoms, our liberties, and our Constitution that all Marines swear to uphold are under attack by our government. The state is a greater enemy than any foreign country or ruler. If the Marines are to really defend our freedoms, then they should be deployed to Washington D.C. After they oversee the closure of most federal agencies and expel the bureaucrats from the city, they can protect the Constitution (with fixed bayonets) from its daily assault by the members of Congress. In that case I would even say with you: "The few, the proud, the Marines." Another reason the military is held in such high esteem is that most Americans wrongfully assume that the military is actually engaged in defending the country. They don’t know about the hundreds of U.S. military bases on foreign soil. They don’t realize that there are thousands of U.S. troops stationed abroad to defend other countries. They have no idea that the United States has troops in 150 different regions of the world. Instead, they think that it is because of the military fighting terrorists "over there" that we don’t have to fight them "over here." The threat of a conquest of America by foreign invasion is nonexistent. And if we were attacked with nuclear weapons, even the Marines would be helpless to defend us. Although the purpose of the U.S. military should only be to defend the United States from genuine attacks and credible enemies, it has primarily been used to intervene in the affairs of other countries. When all of the troops come home and start guarding our borders and patrolling our coasts then, and only then, can we say that the military is defending the country. Even the Coast Guard, which actually patrols our coasts, is tainted – thanks to another unconstitutional, unwinnable war that the government is engaged in that is more destructive than the "enemy" we are fighting: the war on drugs. Still another reason for the military mindset is that members of the military are viewed as "public servants." Members of Congress like to brag about how they have been in public service their whole life. Some policemen and firemen have jumped on the "public service" bandwagon as well. But if you want to be a policeman or a fireman, fine, just don’t expect us get excited about the fact that you have a job. And plenty of jobs are just as dangerous. Veterans are looked upon as special because they "served" in the military. It didn’t take any special education, experience, or accomplishments to land a job in the military – they just signed on the dotted line. We don’t bestow any special honors on bricklayers, mechanics, and accountants; yet, we see plenty of bumper stickers that say things like: "My son is in the Air Force." We never see "My son is a plumber" or "My son is a garbage collector" or "My son is a waiter"? And why not? The people in those occupations don’t drop bombs on anyone. They "serve" some important needs of society. Shouldn’t we honor them as least as much as soldiers? It is unfortunate that some of the most vocal defenders of today’s military are Christians. It is even worse that churches fawn over current and former members of the military on Veterans Day. In response to my recent article "Should Anyone Join the Military," I was chastised by two detractors. The first asked if I could read the Old Testament and still say that no one should serve in the military. I was also told that God instructed the Jews and others to destroy people. It is not hard for me to read the Old Testament and still say that no one should serve in the military. America is not Israel, and the U.S. military is not God’s army. And telling me that God instructed the Jews and others to destroy people is like telling George Bush that he is the decider. There is no denying that God instructed the Jews and others to destroy people. But George Bush is not God, America is not the nation of Israel, and God didn’t command the U.S. military to kill anyone. My other detractor appealed to Alphonsus Liguori and maintained that as the sword maker has no control over the product, so "the soldier does not commit an actual sin unless he chooses to break a moral law while in the military." It is "the leaders or military officers who sin when they issue immoral orders." Military service is "morally neutral." But what kind of morality is this? It certainly isn’t Christian. What kind of morality says that it would be okay to kill someone in an unjust war in his own country who was no threat to you or your country because you are wearing a military uniform? Oh, I forgot: Just don’t break a moral law while you are killing him. It is high time that Americans stop elevating members of the military to a position of honor. It is long past the time when veterans have done anything honorable. We should abolish Veterans Day. And because of our shameful foreign policy and militarism during the twentieth century, we should abolish any Armistice Day celebration as well.
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#166. To: Burkeman1 (#136)
And neither was the massive killing of non-combatants in the European theater, Dresden being the example most often cited. WWII radically changed the guidelines for war, or perhaps I should say moved us back to scorched earth barbarism. Come to think of it, perhaps I'm failing to give General Sherman his due. However, the last two major wars, VN and the ME, have presented giant powers with new challenges ... guerrilla warfare and terrorism. So far, we seem determined to place our heads firmly in the sand and unconsiously trudge forward with "shock and awe".
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
No but I will. We enjoyed Mike Judge's "Office space".
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
Yep, I talked to a young woman a few weeks back, against the Iraq war, and asked her whom she was going to vote for. She said Edwards. I didn't even bother trying . . .
Huh???
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
Give me a little more credit than that.
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
I see the NWO's plans are working, even on those that think they are impervious to such psychological manipulation. Sorry, but in case you haven't noticed, the "support our troops" mantra is basically the administration's newspeak for "support our wars." It's a small step from uncritical admiration for soldiers to uncritical love for the welfare- warfare state. If anyone is buying into NWO propaganda here, it's you. So I repeat my original question: We're supposed to "thank" the troops for "protecting our freedoms." How did bombing, invading, and occupying Somalia, Serbia, or Iraq protect my freedom? How did any of those countries threaten my freedoms?
If you've followed what I've already stated here, I didn't support any of those actions. I'm stating the fact that we DO have a military that DETERS foreign aggression, and that we should appreciate those who have served as that deterrent.
I could think of no other reason why you would state that I am "a propagandist's wet dream" in response to my post #45, where I simply stated that in the real world, the US DID fight in WWII, unlike the scenario that the other poster was yapping about. I also had stated that the analysis of possible outcomes of a scenario where the US did NOT enter WWII was something that required more than a passing thought. So what part of what I posted did you have a problem with?
Lately, our military has been doing nothing but PROVOKING foreign hostility. Who is going to invade us anyway? Iran? Iraq? Serbia? Some Somali or Haitian warlord? We could cut our military spending tenfold, and I can still guarantee you that there won't be any Iranian soldiers occupying Indianapolis or Chicago.
Wrong, it is those that run this government that have been doing the provoking. The military simply follow orders. A captain of an aircraft carrier is not going to disobey a lawful order to set sail to a specific location. A pilot will need to obey a lawful order to patrol the sky over a certain area. Bush and his neocon cabal are the ones rattling their sabers, the military does not decide it on their own. That the people of this country have elected an idiot and a stooge to the highest office in the land is the problem, it is not the fault of the military.
"That the people of this country have elected IDIOTS AND STOOGES to the highest office in the land is the problem, it is not the fault of the military." Some of these people need to read the words of Gen. Smedley Butler . He laid it out in plain language that even Burka should be able to understand.
Bush and his neocon cabal are the ones rattling their sabers, the military does not decide it on their own. That the people of this country have elected an idiot and a stooge to the highest office in the land is the problem, it is not the fault of the military. Some military personnel are just following orders. Many others, particularly back in 2003, supported Bush, his wars, and the neocon agenda 100%. Bush's popularity in the military was among the highest of any group, because a lot of people think that pro war = pro military and pro soldier. It's only in the last year, now that anyone with a brain can see that Iraq is a lost cause, that we get some grumblings about Bush and his wars from the military. And remember what happens to those in the military who don't toe the party line on Bush's wars. Their comrades see to it that they go the way of Pat Tillman, only nobody notices most of the time because they aren't former football stars.
I doubt he was whacked by his own squad members. Somebody wanted to shut him up, but somebody way high up the food chain.
And I believe that it was so high up the chain, that a SpecialOps team was tasked to do it. Stone-cold, soulless killers.
I think Burka just likes to hear himself talk and pats himself on the back for what he considers to be profound insight. It appears that he considers other people to be insects that are not worthy of having a discussion with him, especially if they have an opinion that differs from his own.
That's more than likely the way that it would be done.
All one has to do is read and dissect the rantings of Burka to see he is an America hater. A very bitter hateful person. He subscribes very demeaning names to people in such a way that they agree with him. As long as people read but do not comprehend his blathering he will enjoy it.
So did most of the country, except for those that could see through the smoke and mirrors even at that point in time.
True, but the most extreme Bush supporters that I've ever met tend to be either a) In law enforcement (with FBI agents being the most pro-Bush) or b) military. It would be interesting to see a break-down of the numbers of Bush's approval rating among military, law enforcement, and civilian.
During my time in the military, all of the rank and file hated first Truman and then Eisenhower. The number of people that care one twit for the government of any administration is really of little significance.
He does appear to be quite bitter, and his writings do appear to be that of one that has no great love for this country. I don't get a sense that he is one that simply hates what this country has become under the hand of those that wish to destroy her, it appears that he hates the simple fact that it exists. Nobody is proud of the way the early settlers treated the native people here. There are things that are less than just and fair in our history. But the PRINCIPLES embodied in our Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are what this country was meant to represent, even though imperfect men did not always heed those principles over the span of time. There are and always will be evil men that will attempt to subvert the laws of this nation for their own personal gain at the expense of the rest of us. It is our duty as Americans to identify them and bring them to justice, rather than throw in the towel and claim that the country is beyond redemption.
I think there were many in the federal law enforcement and intelligence communities, along with senior military staff, that knew the real score back in 2003. Especially those whose investigations were shutdown by "higher authority". Hell, here's an interesting link for you to ponder; Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials question 9/11
No shit Sherlock. I suppose that's a bad thing in your eyes. How dare the dirty French have ill feelings towards the rank and file Wehrmacht. They were just following orders. Actually it's worse, 'cause these dudes are all volunteers while the Wehrmacht was full of conscripts. People should be judged on their individual choices. What the hell else would you judge them on? I see you're one of those people who thinks there should be different moral rules for those in government than those who aren't. If it's wrong for you or me to get on a plane to go kill people in Iraq as Joe Schmoe private citizen, then it's wrong for someone in an ugly camo shirt with a flag stitched to the sleeve to get on a plane and do the same thing. Simple as that. If it's wrong for me to kick in people's doors at 3am 'cause they're smoking a spliff, then it's wrong for a guy with a tin badge and some lights on top of his car. These are real simple concepts here. By the way, have you ever been to an Army base down? Egads are they nasty. Endless stretches of titty joints, liquor stores, pawn shops, massage parlors, bars, tattoo shops and fast food with a ring of trailer parks on the periphery. My favorite sight in base towns is the seemingly endless stream of pregnant white trash girls with no wedding rings on wandering around in shorts so you can see their ankle tattoos. So appetizing. I bet divorce lawyers make a killing in those towns.
Odd that such a fine upstanding citizen as you would be frequenting such places. But, then maybe not.
Not odd at all. Some of us have jobs that require us to travel. What's odd is that you would even chime in with such a lame non-rebuttal. I notice you didn't deny the truth of the statement. That's good you didn't, because you would have to lie to do it.
You confuse the enemy of the people of France with their own military. I'm sure the French do not hate their resistance forces that fought the Nazis, nor do the Brits hate their own military that saved them from German invasion in WWII. That you hate OUR military illustrates where your head's at. You hate our military because you don't like the military, period. You think yourself better than they, and look down upon them as if they were bugs for you to sqaush with your foot. Of course there are some scumbags that join the service, just as there are scumbags that don't and simply spew bullshit on Internet forums instead. Don't confuse some of the actions of the battle weary (some have been there over three times) and psychologically damaged troops fighting in Iraq cloud the actions and deeds of our forefathers, who DID fight to defend this country, and served with honor and integrety as best they could. I could go into a long drawn out discussion of why a military force ordered by its governing body to engage in combat is morally superior to a private citizen engaging in hostilities, but I won't, as it isn't. IF the action is in defense of the interests of the Nation, then it is assumed to be morally justified. If it is in the interests of a private individual, and has nothing to do with defense, then it isn't. If there's ever a draft SOP, you best hope they don't toss your ass in some god- forsaken hell hole where you'll be dodging bullets and disease infested bugs 24/7 for the duration of your time in service. You might just come home to people such as yourself that will call you a scumbag, a loser, and a piece of shit for serving in the military.
Do the French hate the Vichy? Some did obviously and some didn't obviously. Could a German despise the SS? Of course there are some scumbags that join the service... And just those few bad apples made Fayetteville NC, Jacksonville, Columbus GA, Phenix City AL, and Valdosta the shitholes they are today? Whatever. By your reckoning with all those fine upstanding men there,military base towns should be better, cleaner, nicer, etc. than the average town and this isn't the case and you know it.
They chose to go there VOLUNTARILY. They joined a force that has done nothing but harrass, bomb, and destroy backwards hellholes for 50 years straight and not one of those places had attacked the US. That's like joining the Mafia and then claiming you had no idea they were involved in extortion. Everyone knows the Mafia engages in extortion as do we know that Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Serbia, Grenada, Panama, Lebanon and Somalia hadn't attacked us. Yet people still join the Mafia and the military. There are no excuses.
It is the vultures that run those businesses in those towns that are the real problem, not so much the military personel that are forced to live there. There are MANY cities that have military bases nearby that DON'T have the problems you list. It's just that the ones you list have local officials that turn a blind eye to opportunists that prey upon the young men that are looking for something to do other than sit in the barracks and jerk off.
My reply was a conclusion based a series of your replies. In future I will try to keep in mind that some posters are a good deal slower than others and if i choose to make a similar reply to you I will try to remember to end it with (summary conclusion) ... that is if I bother to reply at all. Have you given any thought to going back to just lurking?
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
Where? Name 'em. I've probably been to 50 major base towns and they are like carbon copies of each other. Here's some more: El Paso, Colorado Springs, Cheyenne. Here's what a comment on a real estate site had to say about Ft. Knox (it shows I'm not the only one noticing): Sorry to break the news, but there are really no quaint small towns arounf Ft Knox. The area around Ft Knox is nasty, there is nothing but strip clubs, bars, and adult books around that stretch of 31W. Fairly accurate description of certain parts of Ft Carson - from what I've HEARD.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" That's not what they thought they were signing up for. In fact, that's not exactly what we have been doing as a matter of policy, although in reality, some of what you claim is in fact true. That's not ALL our military has done, however, as there are many that serve in the military that DO serve as a deterrent against REAL threats. An example would be the submarine force, whose mission is to patrol the seas and launch a nuclear strike if called upon to do so.
Excellent point - all I know is that as a percentage of donors, the military give more to RP than anyone else.
I already told you why that's not a plausible excuse. We KNOW what the military has done for 50 years. Or are you saying that people who join the military are just so retarded they can be excused for believing what they heard from recruiters and politicians over what they could see with their own eyes was US foreign policy for 50 years? I could maybe buy that.
First off, MANY US cities and towns have problems, even though there is NO military base nearby. I DO acknowledge that there ARE some real issues at some basetowns, but those problems are largely brought about by the opportunists that prey upon the young men there. You attempt to paint the military as the CAUSE of a non-specific set of problems, then expect me to list places that don't have these yet to be defined issues. Why don't YOU give me an example of what you are talking about, as you haven't been very specific as to the sort of problems you are attributing to the military, you just use vague language and imply that any problems in those areas HAS to be caused by the military.
In their defense, I have to offer up stultifying stupidity. Their backgrounds, educations, etc do not give them the best tools to make these sorts of decisions as teenagers...most do not have a hint of a clue.
I seriously DOUBT that you KNEW for the past 50 years what you claim to be blatently obvious. How old are you, 70+?
And BTW bud, what do you suggest, that we do away with ALL of our military, and simply wear sandals, smoke weed, and hope for worldwide peace and love? What are you, some burnt out hippie from the 60's that dodged the draft?
The surrounds of most military bases is not all that much different from the areas surrounding many college campuses - except that the college kids have much more jack and so the bars, pool halls, and are the rest are much more upscale. Businesses are smart enough to tailor their facilities to their customers' ability to pay. I will say that I've never seen a "Pay-Day Loans" store around campus.
Travel??? Right. I must say you and Burka seem to have a great deal of knowledge about the seedy low life of the military. I find that interesting. Lots of people have jobs and travel but you two seem to have a rather intimate relationship to that life. Very interesting.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThere is no honor in these wars. None. The rationale behind the burning to death of infants at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was that it saved the lives of American troops. Well- that is fine and all- but it ain't honorable.
#167. To: Burkeman1 (#140)
Ever see the movie "Idiocracy"?
#168. To: iconoclast (#156)
The sheeple are so conditioned to the two-party-one-message bondage that they just can't get there minds(?) around any other alternative.
#169. To: FormerLurker (#154)
So are you attempting to say that the US was not involved in WWII?
#170. To: FormerLurker (#163)
Did you get into an argument with them?
#171. To: FormerLurker (#152)
(Edited)
One of the "fruits" of these ill-begotten wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is the lack of respect for those that have served in the armed forces throughout this Nation's history.
#172. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#171)
How did bombing, invading, and occupying Somalia, Serbia, or Iraq protect my freedom? How did any of those countries threaten my freedoms?
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#173. To: iconoclast (#169)
(Edited)
Huh???
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#174. To: FormerLurker (#172)
(Edited)
If you've followed what I've already stated here, I didn't support any of those actions. I'm stating the fact that we DO have a military that DETERS foreign aggression, and that we should appreciate those who have served as that deterrent.
#175. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#174)
(Edited)
Lately, our military has been doing nothing but PROVOKING foreign hostility.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#176. To: FormerLurker (#175)
That the people of this country have elected an idiot and a stooge to the highest office in the land is the problem, it is not the fault of the military.
#177. To: FormerLurker (#175)
Wrong, it is those that run this government that have beed doing the provoking. The military simply follow orders. A captain of an aircraft carrier is not going to disobey a lawful order to set sail to a specific location. A pilot will need to obey a lawful order to patrol the sky over a certain area.
#178. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#177)
Their comrades see to it that they go the way of Pat Tillman, only nobody notices most of the time because they aren't former football stars.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#179. To: FormerLurker (#178)
Somebody wanted to shut him up, but somebody way high up the food chain.
#180. To: Cynicom (#176)
Some of these people need to read the words of Gen. Smedley Butler . He laid it out in plain language that even Burka should be able to understand.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#181. To: lodwick (#179)
And I believe that it was so high up the chain, that a SpecialOps team was tasked to do it.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#182. To: FormerLurker (#180)
#183. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#177)
Many others, particularly back in 2003, supported Bush, his wars, and the neocon agenda 100%.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#184. To: FormerLurker (#183)
So did most of the country, except for those that could see through the smoke and mirrors even at that point in time.
#185. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#184)
It would be interesting to see a break-down of the numbers of Bush's approval rating among military, law enforcement, and civilian.
#186. To: Cynicom (#182)
All one has to do is read and dissect the rantings of Burka to see he is an America hater. A very bitter hateful person.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#187. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#184)
(Edited)
True, but the most extreme Bush supporters that I've ever met tend to be either a) In law enforcement (with FBI agents being the most pro- Bush) or b) military.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#188. To: FormerLurker (#152)
One of the "fruits" of these ill-begotten wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is the lack of respect for those that have served in the armed forces throughout this Nation's history.
#189. To: SmokinOPs (#188)
My favorite sight in base towns is the seemingly endless stream of pregnant white trash girls with no wedding rings on wandering around in shorts so you can see their ankle tattoos. So appetizing.
#190. To: Cynicom (#189)
Odd that such a fine upstanding citizen as you would be frequenting such places.
#191. To: SmokinOPs (#188)
No shit Sherlock. I suppose that's a bad thing in your eyes. How dare the dirty French have ill feelings towards the rank and file Wehrmacht.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#192. To: FormerLurker (#191)
I'm sure the French do not hate their resistance forces
#193. To: FormerLurker (#191)
Don't confuse some of the actions of the battle weary...
#194. To: SmokinOPs (#192)
By your reckoning with all those fine upstanding men there,military base towns should be better, cleaner, nicer, etc. than the average town and this isn't the case and you know it.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#195. To: FormerLurker (#173)
I could think of no other reason why you would state that I am "a propagandist's wet dream" in response to my post #45, where I simply stated that in the real world, the US DID fight in WWII, unlike the scenario that the other poster was yapping about.
#196. To: FormerLurker (#194)
There are MANY cities that have military bases nearby that DON'T have the problems you list.
#197. To: SmokinOPs (#188)
By the way, have you ever been to an Army base down? Egads are they nasty
#198. To: SmokinOPs (#193)
They chose to go there VOLUNTARILY. They joined a force that has done nothing but harrass, bomb, and destroy backwards hellholes for 50 years straight and not one of those places had attacked the US.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#199. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#184)
It would be interesting to see a break-down of the numbers of Bush's approval rating among military, law enforcement, and civilian.
#200. To: FormerLurker (#198)
That's not what they thought they were signing up for.
#201. To: SmokinOPs (#196)
Where? Name 'em.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#202. To: SmokinOPs (#193)
Yet people still join the Mafia and the military. There are no excuses.
#203. To: SmokinOPs (#200)
We KNOW what the military has done for 50 years
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#204. To: SmokinOPs (#200)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#205. To: FormerLurker. SmokinOps, all (#201)
#206. To: SmokinOPs (#190)
Some of us have jobs that require us to travel.
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