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Title: Feds ban grandma's angel ornament on Christmas tree....avoid Jesus in decorations
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58596
Published: Nov 9, 2007
Author: WorldNetDaily
Post Date: 2007-11-13 21:09:51 by AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt
Keywords: Dead Constitution
Views: 1033
Comments: 68

Feds ban grandma's angel ornament on Christmas tree

HUD orders residents to avoid Jesus in decorations

Posted: November 9, 2007

© 2007 http://WorldNetDaily.com

Federal Department of Housing and Urban Development officials have announced a ban on any decorations in HUD housing complexes that mention Jesus or represent religion for the Christmas season, and the American Family Association has responded with a petition drive to overturn the decision.

The AFA has set up a link to allow constituents to send e-mails to the HUD secretary or President Bush expressing their objections to the policy.

The issue arose at the Plant City Living Center in Plant City, Fla., where 85-year-old Mrs. Arnold was told that federal law now prohibits her from displaying anything that references religion – words, decorations and the like – in the common area of her apartment building, a HUD facility.

The grandmother told AFA she was instructed that even an angel decoration would be disallowed by the ban, which makes her think of the restrictions in Germany during World War II.

According to the center, HUD has issued a directive banning "any religious symbols or religious words associated with Christmas," which effectively prevents Mrs. Arnold from placing a small Christmas tree outside her door if it contains any religious symbols or words – "even an angel," AFA said in a special alert asking for e-mails.

A spokeswoman at the center who preferred not to give her name told WND the rules now prevent displays "like a manger, like a Christ child, any religious symbols."

"We used to have a sign outside that said, 'Jesus is the reason for the season,' but we can't anymore," she told WND. "We're all very unhappy about that."

The building has about 40 one-bedroom apartments for seniors who are at least 62 years old.

The spokeswoman said she didn't know what would be used for decorations now. "I don't know. We can probably decorate the tree, but we can't put anything on it that symbolizes Christ," she said.

"If the residents want to have a Christmas party in their community room, they cannot call it a Christmas party. The Center says HUD directs residents not to use the word 'Christmas' but to use the word 'holiday,'" the AFA advisory said.

"A Sunday School class from a church near Mrs. Arnold's apartment comes every year to host a Hanging of the Greens and Christmas Party for all the residents. She said the highlight of their Christmas Party comes at the very end of The Hanging of the Greens when someone places the angel on top of their Christmas tree. Their tradition is now banned by the federal government," the AFA said.

The family group noted the federal government has become increasingly active in banning Christianity from the public square, citing the National Park Service's efforts to conceal the words "Laus Deo," which is Latin for "Praise Be to God" at the Washington Monument, and the move by a Veterans Administration official to ban the script of a flag-folding ceremony that mentions "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" and "Father, Son and Holy Ghost" at 100 national cemeteries.

However, "both of these were rescinded after AFA supporters sent e-mails to proper authorities," the AFA said. In the case of the Washington Monument dispute, Park Service officials told WND they got 26,000 e-mails in a morning.

WND also reported earlier this week that government officials in Fort Collins, Colo., are considering new regulations for Christmas decorations that appear to ban red and green lights because they are too religious.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 55.

#10. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt, robin, thread commenters and lurkers (#0)

All right, I'll start some fireworks - and take the flak.

WHERE in Scripture is Christmas ever pronounced as a Holy Day (holiday) in the first place? What does God have to say about it?

Isaiah 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear [them]. 15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Christmas a holiday of MAN'S creation? Furthermore, it would appear that this ban is actually upholding the 2nd Commandment:

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:

That's right. Cute as they may be, Grandma's little angel ornament, and all those plastic Jesus statues adorning everybody's homes are in VIOLATION of the Second Commandment.

Why is it that we don't get all excited about the Feast of Weeks, or Feast of Trumpets? Probably 4 out of 5 Americans never even heard of those, but those I CAN find in Scripture as Holy Days set for us by the Creator...

And we wonder why the world is going to hell in a handbasket...

Isaiah 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

innieway  posted on  2007-11-14   0:57:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: innieway (#10)

Yes, Christmas is a man-made creation, and Christians celebrate it as a time to recapture the joy of the birth of their savior, and to be with family and friends, to let bygones be bygones, and to spread good will and cheer and hopes for peace at least ONCE a year. No, the lost sheep have probably never heard of the feasts you mentioned. If the antichrists in our midst did away with them, the people wouldn't miss them, and wouldn't know or care who's doing this to them. Christmas they can understand. Let's do away with it and celebrate Hanukah and the tribe of Dan Messiah, instead.

".....Chanuka spreads its light across two months. A month of light and a month of darkness. And even after the last night of Chanuka is over and the blaze of all its eight candles has gone out, and it seems that the night is flooded by the neon glare of artificial light, those thirty-six hidden candles burn on in the days of Tevet for the people of the moon like the thirty-six hidden tzaddikim, righteous people, on whose shoulders this world is standing.

Seasons of the MOON: Night Killer

ohr.edu/yhiy/article.php/1401

THE LOST TRIBE OF DAN

THE EARLY JEWISH & CHRISTIAN VIEW OF THE IDENTITY OF THE ANTICHRIST

http://www.watch.pair.com/dan.html

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2007-11-14   7:38:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#11)

Christians celebrate it as a time to recapture the joy of the birth of their savior, and to be with family and friends, to let bygones be bygones, and to spread good will and cheer and hopes for peace at least ONCE a year.

I understand the concept and I'll readily admit that it is a NICE concept. BUT, that doesn't mean we should be doing it. This may be a poor example, but the concept of "something for nothing" is nice too - but it's no excuse for shoplifting. And it should be known I'm not an advocate of Hanukkah or Chanuka or whatever either. Doing away with one false Holy Day does not mean replacing it with another.

My position is quite simple. We should get back to following what Scripture actually teaches, and forget all these "feel good" concepts (however "nice" they may be). Unless we do (and it appears we WON'T) we cannot expect the Creator or the Messiah to "be there for us".

In Matthew 12:50 we are told by the Messiah For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Just WHAT would the WILL of the Creator be? I would argue that since He told us 22 times in Scripture to "Keep My Commandments" (in those exact words, and many more times we were told to "keep my statutes" etc) He must have deemed it as being very important to HIM. This was summed up quite nicely and simply in John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
I think doing His will might be to do as we are told, and quit being disobedient children. Disobedient children deserve a spanking. Is this a spanking we really want?

innieway  posted on  2007-11-14   10:15:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: innieway (#19) (Edited)

Some of my happiest childhood memories revolve around the holidays. Some of my favorite music, including hymns, involves Christmas.

There was a special star and the Three Wise Men thought His birth was a very big deal and something to celebrate.

Why shouldn't we?

robin  posted on  2007-11-14   10:18:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: robin (#20)

There was a special star and the Three Wise Men thought His birth was a very big deal and something to celebrate.

Why shouldn't we?

Well, I checked it out pretty carefully, and can't seem to find where it became a yearly holiday in Scripture. Can you point out to me where it is? I'm sure I just overlooked it.

These are exactly the type things people and religions use as their justification for doing things which violate Scripture. They don't want their beliefs tested, they are comfortable in them. It feels good. The truth and/or facts may be more than they can handle. So they dig up things for excuses as to why they should NOT change.

Why shouldn't we? Well, perhaps because Christmas practices are pretty well described in Jeremiah 10:3,4 3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Jeremiah 10:2 says this is the practice of the HEATHEN, and specifically states NOT to do this. Heathen and pagan are synonymous.

Other than that, refer to my previous argument.

I'm really not trying to change anyone's beliefs concerning the matter, even though I know it seems I am. I don't have a problem with people following their religious beliefs; in fact, I feel they have a right to do so unimpeded. All I'm attempting to do is report what Scripture actually teaches, and offer an explanation for why - despite many prayers - we still have wars, so much illness, economic strife, etc...

innieway  posted on  2007-11-14   11:17:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: innieway (#26)

Well, I checked it out pretty carefully, and can't seem to find where it became a yearly holiday in Scripture. Can you point out to me where it is? I'm sure I just overlooked it.

Well, I guess we eeevil Catholics need to assume some responsibility for this "odious" joyful, reverent, awesome celebration of remembrance .... the root of the word Christmas is Christ's Mass after all. It's a tradition we treasure.

For those that prefer to sit in a cold room and flip through scripture for justification of their "bah, humbug" attitude, more power to you. You have the same benefits of the free exercise clause of the first amendment as we.

Didn't the Pilgrims and Puritans choose not to observe a celebration of Christ's birth, too? Wow, they were a notably fun bunch.

iconoclast  posted on  2007-11-14   12:40:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: iconoclast (#32)

Well, I guess we eeevil Catholics need to assume some responsibility for this "odious" joyful, reverent, awesome celebration of remembrance .... the root of the word Christmas is Christ's Mass after all. It's a tradition we treasure.

I knew I was going to light some fireworks.

I guess I've done a fine job of misrepresenting myself. I certainly never intended to imply that the members of any particular Christian religion are "eeevil". And at the risk of even more fireworks, I'll state that that goes for Catholics too, however their LEADERS are an entirely different matter.

Having said that, it may (or may not) interest you to know that I was a "cradle Catholic" - raised in it, and participated in it "whole hog" well into my 20s; including being alter boy and the whole nine yards. I'm extremely well aware of how much Christians (and perhaps Catholics especially) TREASURE their TRADITIONS of Christmas AND Easter!
Obviously, something changed. That something was actually 2 things:
1) I met a person that had moved to our small town and started a business here. They needed some work done which they hired me to do. In the course of this we visited quite a bit, and found we had a lot in common - we both were members of "patriot movements" etc. This person is about 10 years older than me, and had been studying various things which interested me quite a bit longer than I had. From our common viewpoints, and the research this person had done coupled with what I had learned, I came to respect this person's opinions and put quite a bit of trust in them. Then one day (quite by accident) while talking, the topic got onto religion, and I found out that person had also been a "cradle Catholic". This person had suggested that I read the Bible, but I didn't take the time to do it for quite some time.
2) A snowstorm prevented me from being able to get to Mass one Sunday. Thinking about the suggestion from my friend, I opened the Bible I had (which was a KJV oddly enough considering the Catholic roots) and began to read. I really wasn't sure where to start, so I just picked a small book (Obadiah if I remember correctly) and read that. What I read raised a couple of questions, so I called my friend to ask. Along with the answers I got, it was recommended that I also obtain a Concordance to aid in my studies. I bought a Concordance, and began again. But this time I approached it like I would have any other book - with no pre-conceived notions, an open mind, and from page 1 taking them in order.

Then in very short order something else happened which I wasn't expecting - the "story" became every bit as captivating as any of the "best" of novels, and I had a desire to spend more and more time with it. Something else happened that I wasn't expecting - the more I read the more I realized that what this book was saying (which was supposedly the basis and inspiration of what I had learned from my religion) was NOT conforming to what I had been taught all my life.

I have always been one that craves knowledge. I like to know the truth - even if it's ugly. Needless to say, studying Scripture is something which a person can devote their entire lives to and STILL dig up more fascinations. Also needless to say, that study and yearning for knowledge and truth has been something which I have been in pursuit of ever since that snowy Sunday years ago.

Yes, I am well aware of the TRADITION of Christmas. I am also well aware that this is just that - a TRIDITION created by MAN, NOT the Creator NOR the Messiah. What does the Messiah have to say about THAT in Scripture?
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Skipping church and studying Scripture. A WILD NEW CONCEPT perhaps whose time has come.

innieway  posted on  2007-11-14   16:15:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: innieway (#43)

Skipping church and studying Scripture. A WILD NEW CONCEPT perhaps whose time has come.

It's wild alright ...even farther out than militia men.

You would have us believe that a roaming militia man, a snowy morning and Obadiah (of all people) turned you away from orthodox Christianity?

Sorry, but, in the words of Paul Harvey, I'm inclined to think there's "a rest of the story". The 10-year older guy part is interesting. What was the relationship between you and your Dad. What kind of home life did you have? Any bad experiences in Parochial school?

The Obadiah part particularly intrigues me. It is a typical Old Testament prophetical rant about Jews fighting over land. Now there's a shocking/inspiring bit of revelation and such an integral part of the message, example and sacrifice of our lord!

But somehow you were so inspired by its 21 verses (that's right folks, verses, not chapters) that you rushed to your employer/mentor/Rabbi for further enlightenment. Gives us a break. Maybe your new path will lead you to Zionism, who'd be surprised ... no pressure for Christmas trees there.

Son, you may be a "cradle Catholic" but you morphed into a confused/angry(?) Catholic to a heaven knows what.

So far your new path has led you to encouraging the elimination of Christmas and the disruption of a usually rational forum for your own spotlight seeking gratification.

Any more fruits?

iconoclast  posted on  2007-11-14   19:35:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: iconoclast (#50)

Skipping church and studying Scripture. A WILD NEW CONCEPT perhaps whose time has come.

It's wild alright ...even farther out than militia men.

That's what I thought. More effort than you care to invest. I understand. It's much easier to go to church and have someone tell you what it says - AND interpret it for you.

May I ask a stupid question? How do you Catholics reconcile with yourselves the FACT that so many priests have been caught in perverse acts with children, and the Church instead of allowing them to be prosecuted pays "damages" and keeps it out of court? And THEN when the "heat is off" moves them to another parish as if nothing happened? It would be one thing if this happened in one or two isolated cases, but we're talking major numbers of cases.

innieway  posted on  2007-11-14   20:34:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 55.

#59. To: innieway (#55)

May I ask a stupid question? How do you Catholics reconcile with yourselves the FACT that so many priests have been caught in perverse acts with children, and the Church instead of allowing them to be prosecuted pays "damages" and keeps it out of court? And THEN when the "heat is off" moves them to another parish as if nothing happened? It would be one thing if this happened in one or two isolated cases, but we're talking major numbers of cases.

There is nothing for "us Catholics" to reconcile.

We can speak out of our disgust and I have, as have many lay Catholics. But, the sinning priests, and a cowardly hierarchy, have the burden of repentance and reconciliation on their souls. And, no, I am not nearly satisfied by what I see as an ongoing attempt to tiptoe away from these scandals.

A million perverts and unworthies could not separate me from the sacraments.

BTW, your repeated insinuation that Catholics don't read/know scripture is also scandalous. Not all are so inclined, but that is undoubtedly true of any "church" larger than two alienated individuals.

BTW#2, I'm still curious about the life changing profundities you discerned in Obadiah. That aside, it occurs to me that you might very well find a spiritual home with the "Jews for Jesus" movement, and I would have absolutely no problem with that. Just stuff your anger with my church.

iconoclast  posted on  2007-11-14 22:10:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 55.

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