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Religion
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Title: Feds ban grandma's angel ornament on Christmas tree....avoid Jesus in decorations
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58596
Published: Nov 9, 2007
Author: WorldNetDaily
Post Date: 2007-11-13 21:09:51 by AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt
Keywords: Dead Constitution
Views: 996
Comments: 68

Feds ban grandma's angel ornament on Christmas tree

HUD orders residents to avoid Jesus in decorations

Posted: November 9, 2007

© 2007 http://WorldNetDaily.com

Federal Department of Housing and Urban Development officials have announced a ban on any decorations in HUD housing complexes that mention Jesus or represent religion for the Christmas season, and the American Family Association has responded with a petition drive to overturn the decision.

The AFA has set up a link to allow constituents to send e-mails to the HUD secretary or President Bush expressing their objections to the policy.

The issue arose at the Plant City Living Center in Plant City, Fla., where 85-year-old Mrs. Arnold was told that federal law now prohibits her from displaying anything that references religion – words, decorations and the like – in the common area of her apartment building, a HUD facility.

The grandmother told AFA she was instructed that even an angel decoration would be disallowed by the ban, which makes her think of the restrictions in Germany during World War II.

According to the center, HUD has issued a directive banning "any religious symbols or religious words associated with Christmas," which effectively prevents Mrs. Arnold from placing a small Christmas tree outside her door if it contains any religious symbols or words – "even an angel," AFA said in a special alert asking for e-mails.

A spokeswoman at the center who preferred not to give her name told WND the rules now prevent displays "like a manger, like a Christ child, any religious symbols."

"We used to have a sign outside that said, 'Jesus is the reason for the season,' but we can't anymore," she told WND. "We're all very unhappy about that."

The building has about 40 one-bedroom apartments for seniors who are at least 62 years old.

The spokeswoman said she didn't know what would be used for decorations now. "I don't know. We can probably decorate the tree, but we can't put anything on it that symbolizes Christ," she said.

"If the residents want to have a Christmas party in their community room, they cannot call it a Christmas party. The Center says HUD directs residents not to use the word 'Christmas' but to use the word 'holiday,'" the AFA advisory said.

"A Sunday School class from a church near Mrs. Arnold's apartment comes every year to host a Hanging of the Greens and Christmas Party for all the residents. She said the highlight of their Christmas Party comes at the very end of The Hanging of the Greens when someone places the angel on top of their Christmas tree. Their tradition is now banned by the federal government," the AFA said.

The family group noted the federal government has become increasingly active in banning Christianity from the public square, citing the National Park Service's efforts to conceal the words "Laus Deo," which is Latin for "Praise Be to God" at the Washington Monument, and the move by a Veterans Administration official to ban the script of a flag-folding ceremony that mentions "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" and "Father, Son and Holy Ghost" at 100 national cemeteries.

However, "both of these were rescinded after AFA supporters sent e-mails to proper authorities," the AFA said. In the case of the Washington Monument dispute, Park Service officials told WND they got 26,000 e-mails in a morning.

WND also reported earlier this week that government officials in Fort Collins, Colo., are considering new regulations for Christmas decorations that appear to ban red and green lights because they are too religious.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 68.

#10. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt, robin, thread commenters and lurkers (#0)

All right, I'll start some fireworks - and take the flak.

WHERE in Scripture is Christmas ever pronounced as a Holy Day (holiday) in the first place? What does God have to say about it?

Isaiah 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear [them]. 15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Christmas a holiday of MAN'S creation? Furthermore, it would appear that this ban is actually upholding the 2nd Commandment:

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:

That's right. Cute as they may be, Grandma's little angel ornament, and all those plastic Jesus statues adorning everybody's homes are in VIOLATION of the Second Commandment.

Why is it that we don't get all excited about the Feast of Weeks, or Feast of Trumpets? Probably 4 out of 5 Americans never even heard of those, but those I CAN find in Scripture as Holy Days set for us by the Creator...

And we wonder why the world is going to hell in a handbasket...

Isaiah 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

innieway  posted on  2007-11-14   0:57:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: innieway (#10)

Yes, Christmas is a man-made creation, and Christians celebrate it as a time to recapture the joy of the birth of their savior, and to be with family and friends, to let bygones be bygones, and to spread good will and cheer and hopes for peace at least ONCE a year. No, the lost sheep have probably never heard of the feasts you mentioned. If the antichrists in our midst did away with them, the people wouldn't miss them, and wouldn't know or care who's doing this to them. Christmas they can understand. Let's do away with it and celebrate Hanukah and the tribe of Dan Messiah, instead.

".....Chanuka spreads its light across two months. A month of light and a month of darkness. And even after the last night of Chanuka is over and the blaze of all its eight candles has gone out, and it seems that the night is flooded by the neon glare of artificial light, those thirty-six hidden candles burn on in the days of Tevet for the people of the moon like the thirty-six hidden tzaddikim, righteous people, on whose shoulders this world is standing.

Seasons of the MOON: Night Killer

ohr.edu/yhiy/article.php/1401

THE LOST TRIBE OF DAN

THE EARLY JEWISH & CHRISTIAN VIEW OF THE IDENTITY OF THE ANTICHRIST

http://www.watch.pair.com/dan.html

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2007-11-14   7:38:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#11)

Christians celebrate it as a time to recapture the joy of the birth of their savior, and to be with family and friends, to let bygones be bygones, and to spread good will and cheer and hopes for peace at least ONCE a year.

I understand the concept and I'll readily admit that it is a NICE concept. BUT, that doesn't mean we should be doing it. This may be a poor example, but the concept of "something for nothing" is nice too - but it's no excuse for shoplifting. And it should be known I'm not an advocate of Hanukkah or Chanuka or whatever either. Doing away with one false Holy Day does not mean replacing it with another.

My position is quite simple. We should get back to following what Scripture actually teaches, and forget all these "feel good" concepts (however "nice" they may be). Unless we do (and it appears we WON'T) we cannot expect the Creator or the Messiah to "be there for us".

In Matthew 12:50 we are told by the Messiah For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Just WHAT would the WILL of the Creator be? I would argue that since He told us 22 times in Scripture to "Keep My Commandments" (in those exact words, and many more times we were told to "keep my statutes" etc) He must have deemed it as being very important to HIM. This was summed up quite nicely and simply in John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
I think doing His will might be to do as we are told, and quit being disobedient children. Disobedient children deserve a spanking. Is this a spanking we really want?

innieway  posted on  2007-11-14   10:15:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: innieway (#19) (Edited)

Some of my happiest childhood memories revolve around the holidays. Some of my favorite music, including hymns, involves Christmas.

There was a special star and the Three Wise Men thought His birth was a very big deal and something to celebrate.

Why shouldn't we?

robin  posted on  2007-11-14   10:18:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: robin (#20)

There was a special star and the Three Wise Men thought His birth was a very big deal and something to celebrate.

Why shouldn't we?

Well, I checked it out pretty carefully, and can't seem to find where it became a yearly holiday in Scripture. Can you point out to me where it is? I'm sure I just overlooked it.

These are exactly the type things people and religions use as their justification for doing things which violate Scripture. They don't want their beliefs tested, they are comfortable in them. It feels good. The truth and/or facts may be more than they can handle. So they dig up things for excuses as to why they should NOT change.

Why shouldn't we? Well, perhaps because Christmas practices are pretty well described in Jeremiah 10:3,4 3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Jeremiah 10:2 says this is the practice of the HEATHEN, and specifically states NOT to do this. Heathen and pagan are synonymous.

Other than that, refer to my previous argument.

I'm really not trying to change anyone's beliefs concerning the matter, even though I know it seems I am. I don't have a problem with people following their religious beliefs; in fact, I feel they have a right to do so unimpeded. All I'm attempting to do is report what Scripture actually teaches, and offer an explanation for why - despite many prayers - we still have wars, so much illness, economic strife, etc...

innieway  posted on  2007-11-14   11:17:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: innieway (#26)

Well, I checked it out pretty carefully, and can't seem to find where it became a yearly holiday in Scripture. Can you point out to me where it is? I'm sure I just overlooked it.

Well, I guess we eeevil Catholics need to assume some responsibility for this "odious" joyful, reverent, awesome celebration of remembrance .... the root of the word Christmas is Christ's Mass after all. It's a tradition we treasure.

For those that prefer to sit in a cold room and flip through scripture for justification of their "bah, humbug" attitude, more power to you. You have the same benefits of the free exercise clause of the first amendment as we.

Didn't the Pilgrims and Puritans choose not to observe a celebration of Christ's birth, too? Wow, they were a notably fun bunch.

iconoclast  posted on  2007-11-14   12:40:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: iconoclast (#32)

Well, I guess we eeevil Catholics need to assume some responsibility for this "odious" joyful, reverent, awesome celebration of remembrance .... the root of the word Christmas is Christ's Mass after all. It's a tradition we treasure.

I knew I was going to light some fireworks.

I guess I've done a fine job of misrepresenting myself. I certainly never intended to imply that the members of any particular Christian religion are "eeevil". And at the risk of even more fireworks, I'll state that that goes for Catholics too, however their LEADERS are an entirely different matter.

Having said that, it may (or may not) interest you to know that I was a "cradle Catholic" - raised in it, and participated in it "whole hog" well into my 20s; including being alter boy and the whole nine yards. I'm extremely well aware of how much Christians (and perhaps Catholics especially) TREASURE their TRADITIONS of Christmas AND Easter!
Obviously, something changed. That something was actually 2 things:
1) I met a person that had moved to our small town and started a business here. They needed some work done which they hired me to do. In the course of this we visited quite a bit, and found we had a lot in common - we both were members of "patriot movements" etc. This person is about 10 years older than me, and had been studying various things which interested me quite a bit longer than I had. From our common viewpoints, and the research this person had done coupled with what I had learned, I came to respect this person's opinions and put quite a bit of trust in them. Then one day (quite by accident) while talking, the topic got onto religion, and I found out that person had also been a "cradle Catholic". This person had suggested that I read the Bible, but I didn't take the time to do it for quite some time.
2) A snowstorm prevented me from being able to get to Mass one Sunday. Thinking about the suggestion from my friend, I opened the Bible I had (which was a KJV oddly enough considering the Catholic roots) and began to read. I really wasn't sure where to start, so I just picked a small book (Obadiah if I remember correctly) and read that. What I read raised a couple of questions, so I called my friend to ask. Along with the answers I got, it was recommended that I also obtain a Concordance to aid in my studies. I bought a Concordance, and began again. But this time I approached it like I would have any other book - with no pre-conceived notions, an open mind, and from page 1 taking them in order.

Then in very short order something else happened which I wasn't expecting - the "story" became every bit as captivating as any of the "best" of novels, and I had a desire to spend more and more time with it. Something else happened that I wasn't expecting - the more I read the more I realized that what this book was saying (which was supposedly the basis and inspiration of what I had learned from my religion) was NOT conforming to what I had been taught all my life.

I have always been one that craves knowledge. I like to know the truth - even if it's ugly. Needless to say, studying Scripture is something which a person can devote their entire lives to and STILL dig up more fascinations. Also needless to say, that study and yearning for knowledge and truth has been something which I have been in pursuit of ever since that snowy Sunday years ago.

Yes, I am well aware of the TRADITION of Christmas. I am also well aware that this is just that - a TRIDITION created by MAN, NOT the Creator NOR the Messiah. What does the Messiah have to say about THAT in Scripture?
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Skipping church and studying Scripture. A WILD NEW CONCEPT perhaps whose time has come.

innieway  posted on  2007-11-14   16:15:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: innieway (#43)

Skipping church and studying Scripture. A WILD NEW CONCEPT perhaps whose time has come.

It's wild alright ...even farther out than militia men.

You would have us believe that a roaming militia man, a snowy morning and Obadiah (of all people) turned you away from orthodox Christianity?

Sorry, but, in the words of Paul Harvey, I'm inclined to think there's "a rest of the story". The 10-year older guy part is interesting. What was the relationship between you and your Dad. What kind of home life did you have? Any bad experiences in Parochial school?

The Obadiah part particularly intrigues me. It is a typical Old Testament prophetical rant about Jews fighting over land. Now there's a shocking/inspiring bit of revelation and such an integral part of the message, example and sacrifice of our lord!

But somehow you were so inspired by its 21 verses (that's right folks, verses, not chapters) that you rushed to your employer/mentor/Rabbi for further enlightenment. Gives us a break. Maybe your new path will lead you to Zionism, who'd be surprised ... no pressure for Christmas trees there.

Son, you may be a "cradle Catholic" but you morphed into a confused/angry(?) Catholic to a heaven knows what.

So far your new path has led you to encouraging the elimination of Christmas and the disruption of a usually rational forum for your own spotlight seeking gratification.

Any more fruits?

iconoclast  posted on  2007-11-14   19:35:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: iconoclast (#50)

I was gonna "let it rest" but I changed my mind.

Yeah. God works in mysterious ways.

Don't read more into it than what it is. I had a very good home life. Raised by folks that were born in 1901. Worked their way through the Great Depression, and learned the hard way how to prosper in exceedingly difficult times. Taught me to be prepared for the worst, and how to make it through.
The "older guy part" is nothing more than someone that had been involved in studying for quite a while some things which I was interested in (things like the Federal Reserve, income taxes, and Social Security) who was able to tell me where to find more info on my studies, and give me some good pointers. One of the things this person was also heavily into studying was the Bible. It's nothing more than that.

Thought I made it quite clear that I was embarking on something which was totally foreign to me. I had never actually opened up a Bible and read anything. I caught "readings" in church, and that was good enough. I picked Obadiah BECAUSE it was short. And I had NO IDEA about what I had just read. Jews fighting over land wasn't typically in the readings we had in church. I had no idea who or what Edom was. And I was making the typical mistake of trying to interpret what I had just read. Yes, I had some questions, so I CALLED (didn't rush right over) and asked.

Nope. Now I DO know about Esau/Edom.

I'm less confused now than I ever have been. I'm not angry either. I live a happy life. I might even live by better "Christian values" than you do. For example, when was the last time you picked up total strangers who were stranded and invited them into your home? I did last winter. A family who's car had broken down and had 2 small children were caught in a snowstorm. All the motels in our little town were full, and they were standing OUTSIDE a convenience store shivering. This storm was bad, the interstate was closed, and lots of travelers were stuck. The store was full of people, so they weren't allowing folks to stay inside for long. Anyhow the CATHOLIC CHURCH right across the street from the convenience store had it's doors locked (as did all the other churches in town). It's their policy, keep the doors locked - somebody might steal their very precious and expensive gold tabernacle or chalice you know. Back to the story, this was a young couple that most folks would look at and kind of steer clear of anyhow - you know dreadlocks, nose piercings, tats everywhere - (well lets just say they didn't really fit in in this small country town). In fact, during the time I was there 3 different Catholics I know here had left the store and drove off without ever even speaking to these folks - and quite a few other Christians too. I couldn't let them stay out in the snow and cold so I brought them to my house. Fed them, made sure they had a warm bed to sleep in... Got up the next morning and towed the guy's car to the mechanic. They were here a couple of days while their car was being fixed. I didn't ask them for anything while they were here. Car got fixed, and they went on.... You done anything like that lately - SON???

Where ever my "new path" has led me, one thing is for sure - there's more truth in it now than there ever was in the "old path".

Yeah. BTW, this is New Testament AND Jesus said it - so you can believe this, it's not that dusty, archaic Old Testament stuff:

Luke 6:41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

innieway  posted on  2007-11-14   22:28:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: innieway, rowdee (#60)

I was gonna "let it rest"

An excellent thought.

God works in mysterious ways.

He does indeed. Amen

I'm a pretty much a self-converted Catholic ... no indoctrination, just a lifetime of experiences, some good, some horrific. Oddly enough I feel that the Church and a Jewish homosexual psychologist, not to put too fine a point on it, saved my life. We encountered the psychologist during the process of trekking from counselor to counselor in a futile attempt to save a shipwreck of a marriage of 25 years.

During the the worst and near final period I'd leave the house and walk to the neighborhood Catholic church .... just to escape the middle of the night harangues of my ex and settle on my knees in the quiet of the sanctuary to pray for some path to saving that marriage. I later related this to the kindly old parish Priest who gave me my "instructions", which really just amounted to "fireside chats". He asked me how I got into the church in the middle of the night, and I said "I just walked in the front door". His reply was just "hmm, those doors are supposed to be locked at that hour". So, I guess maybe we all have little "miracles" that have a life changing affect in our lives.

Bottom line, I want to apologize to both of you for getting carried away in my fervor for the Church that I have come to love.

Peace and love to you, sincerely.

iconoclast  posted on  2007-11-15   8:48:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: iconoclast (#62)

And peace and love in Christ back at you.

I just read your last comment to Dempsey and had to laugh.......about the wine-making for the Cana wedding party as well as the stiff-necked and eyes closed comments. All I could do was think was: "Me"? Stiff-necked? Eyes closed? These guys must be newcomers to the forum!

I took the comments as trying to paint a less than pretty picture of anyone who professes to love Jesus Christ.

It got me to laughing because I'm always correcting my elderly mother regarding drinking and use the Cana wine story as the example. I even have a couple of commentaries I've atually written rebuttals to the writer's comments against drinking!!

You mention 'miracles'...........I, too, have a story--involves 3 escrows in 3 different states closing with precision in order that the 4th escrow proceed in perfect timing in the 4th state. Otherwise, I wouldn't have found this place I live at, set up as it was with the big satellite dish. Nor would I have been calling out a technican to show me how the damned thing works that happened to use Dr. Gene Scott's satellite location to set up with.

And once I got a look at that religious 'yahoo' in the wierd clothes talking about pyramids,among other things, it was entertaining to observe a few minutes at a time--is he gonna be the next Bakker or whoever to dupe little old ladies.

But damned if this guy didn't talk scripture, and actually explain Hebrew or Greek words used. Actually he was shining a light, and that light brought me back to God.

I study an read Scripture all the time. I don't believe any one denomination has a lock on Jesus Christ and the gospel. I do believe man has made a lot of gobbly-de-goop rites and rituals and rules and regulations that cause stumbling, falling away, and/or the refusal to become involved to begin with.

Christians should be a happy lot. I'm sure Jesus Christ was.

rowdee  posted on  2007-11-15   12:59:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: rowdee, iconoclad, Jethro Tull (#65)

And once I got a look at that religious 'yahoo' in the wierd clothes talking about pyramids,among other things, it was entertaining to observe a few minutes at a time--is he gonna be the next Bakker or whoever to dupe little old ladies.

But damned if this guy didn't talk scripture, and actually explain Hebrew or Greek words used.

And a stogie hangin out of his mouth - scribbling all over the dry-erase board in letters that aren't part of any alphabet that makes ANY sense to a country kid from America.

I miss ol Gene. I'd just discovered him not long before he died. He had a lot of good insight, and apparently put in a LOT of hours in his studies. I was working my way through his archives. Then shortly after he died, the archives were pulled off his website. Haven't checked in a long time, but I'm bettin they still aren't back up.

That's the conclusion I've come to too. Probably goes way further than just causing stumbling and falling away even. Look at this thread - the way it was going for a while. Course, I had a big hand in that by making my first comment (which I did BECAUSE of my conclusion). But the point is when it comes to religious debate (or sharing of ideas), it seems it don't take long and the debate turns personal. That's on the GOOD end of the spectrum! I don't even want to try to count how many WARS have been fought because of religion.

I'm thinking so too. Scripture doesn't give us much to go on concerning His personal life... But it can be a little hard sometimes to be a happy lot. Puttin up with Bushes and Clintons for 20 years is enough to drive people into a rEVOLution. This country desperately needs a dose of RP...

innieway  posted on  2007-11-15   14:18:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: innieway (#67)

FYI, all of Doc's teachings are going onto CDs and DVDs....trying to keep abreast of the newer technologies. And they transcribing and printing his teachings into book form. I think they just made a deal to go onto Dish or one of the other small dish programming outfits. And, of course, they're on the internet 24/7.

Yeah..........that cigar was another thing that made me wonder.

As sit regarding Jesus being a happy person. How could He not be happy--what with a direct line to God! Really, though, I imagine there were many things that saddened him, i.e., the 'traditions' thing with the Pharisees, and I would imagine he would have gone nuts with it taking so long for his disciples to 'get it'. BUT, you never find him angry or upset with them. He continues to teach them. Good grief--but I can't imagine having the degree of patience of him or Job without having a happy outlook. If they were down in the dumps to begin with, yikes--well, you can imagine.

I try not to paint with a broad brush any sect or denomination. There would be an exception or two though. I had enough of that 'they're going to hell'--meaning anyone that wasn't of 'our' denomination as a kid growing up.

I do believe that anyone who places their faith/belief on Jesus Christ and what he did, his death and his resurrection, will obtain eternal life. I could commune with others on that basic level; but you start tossing in 'don't drink, don't dance, don't wear makeup, don't breath, don't drink mountain dew sodie water' don't smoke, don't laugh, don't wear a dress above the knee, worship some idol, kill some bird, etc., and I'm gone.

I actually enjoy discussions on the board so long as someone isn't being a smart ass but is sincere. I believe it can help us grown in our spiritual walk. I believe the christian walk is one of, or should be one of, continual growth and enlightment.

rowdee  posted on  2007-11-15   17:59:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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