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Title: GLENN BECK: RON PAUL SUPPORTERS ISLAMO-FASCISTS
Source:
http://www.vloggingtheapocalypse.com/
URL Source: http://www.vloggingtheapocalypse.co ... AUL_SUPPORTERS_ISLAMO_FASCISTS
Published: Nov 17, 2007
Author: Glenn Beck
Post Date: 2007-11-17 10:00:04 by robin
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Views: 4768
Comments: 204
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#1. To: robin (#0)
I was able to handle two minutes of that shill's blather - does anyone really listen to him?
two minutes? Man you're tough as nails.
I wonder if Glen Beck is DAnconia55 or Final Authority over at ElPee?
I think we should call the radio stations he airs from and complain. Hell, I view his propaganda as domestic terrorism, perhaps I should call Homeland Security, maybe they'll rig up his nuts with electro-shock and waterboard him a bit...
Dude looks a lot like Pills, to me.
Exactly...a pills clone.
(The above was at the link) Did you get to the bit where he called us terrorists? I don't know why the great-grandson of Winston Churchill should lecture us about Guy Fawkes. David Horowitz is full of shit. Ron Paul did not choose Guy Fawkes, his supporters did.
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There's a boycott of his sponsors' products. Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Since so many members of the U.S. military have contributed money to Ron Paul's campaign, I wonder which way the U.S. troops would point their guns if they received such orders. For that mission, I think they might have to use Blackwater.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
For that mission, I think they might have to use Blackwater. Blackwater and green card soldiers, plus a few UN. Stay armed! Stay Free! Remember New Orleans!
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LOLOL! The "Revolution" "Led by Ron Paul" includes "Islamo Commie Fascists"; "Fawkes"-like domestic terrorists according to David Whorowitz and Glenn Beck? What a bunch of Tories! For a bit of understanding, Glenn Beck is one of if not the ONLY radio host that has both poked a stick at the North American Unioners AND visited the Jorge Arbusto White House in the last quarter...
What North American Union?
I wonder if David Horositz hangs out in the MN airport bathroom with Senator Widestance?
The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries. James Madison (1751-1836),Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President It's a false dichotomy to argue that people who support Ron Paul are unaware of the threat Islamic extremism poses to the west. I see several in Horowitz's comments. Supporting an America-first candidate may be the only way we can ever succeed in ending aid to Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Egypt. Likewise, we've never had such a pro-Islamic government since Bush took office.
You know, the new media seems to be saying that we (America) are supporting both sides of everything. I'd say everybody needs to stop and re-evaluate the situation.
The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries. James Madison (1751-1836),Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President I've sent this link to my little brother. He's an E-8 in the Air Force and just celebrated his 20th year of service while serving on his third tour in Iraq. He's a big Ron Paul supporter, as are many of the airmen serving under him. I'm sure he and his buddies will be surprised to know that he is now considered an islamo-fascist supporter. Especially coming from a "I sup[port the troops" uber-patriot such as Glen Beck If anyone knows anyone in the military who are pro-Ron Paul, I would highly suggest this link be sent to them. These people are shooting themsleves in their own feet and are too stupid to realize it. What else would you expect from Glenn Beck though? He's a long time alcoholic and drug abuser.
If anyone knows anyone in the military who are pro-Ron Paul, I would highly suggest this link be sent to them. These people are shooting themsleves in their own feet and are too stupid to realize it. What else would you expect from Glenn Beck though? He's a long time alcoholic and drug abuser. Never mind. I forgot about the attitude towards the military here. My bad.
Beck = perfect subject for bribe and/or for blackmail
I'd say everybody needs to stop and re-evaluate the situation. You see through the schtick. What the MSM does not clarify is that our "aid" to Muslim countries like Turkey, Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan is to bribe them to stay "friendly/non-confrontational" to Israel so it's like additional foreign aid for Israel's benefit. Saudi Arabia we protect ( I don't think we give SA foreign aid) mainly for oil industry's benefit.
Got your sh*t in order my friend?
What North American Union? Aye aye, sir.
Someday you'll be proud of me buck...heheheh
What North American Union? Glenn Beck is a joy to watch sometimes, only because he is actually insane. I bet he doesn't know the candidate that has received the most contributions from military members is Ron Paul.
Swimming around in my bourbon highball..... I think he knows. He's working for the other side, and he almost proved it in this video.
Will be? I'm proud to know anyone who lives to be free, and tries to help others around him have freedom. That fits your description very well. I appreciate that a lot.
We prop up the Saudi monarchy by providing them with all the toys a modern police state could wish for.
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
Glenn sucked me in a bit, I admit. He's real tough until it actually means something...hope he realizes his 50M won't save America and it won't get Glenn into Heaven.
What North American Union? You are an inspiration...
What North American Union? I support the Military, and IMHO only, what you did was 100% correct.
But they hate us because we're free.
Ring a bell?
What North American Union? It does. We need to tap into the oil at Gull island, Alaska. The Federal Reserve is eating us out of house and home. I want the Saudis out of our national affairs.
When did Americans die in the service of the Saudis?
Please tell me examples of the Saudis in our national affairs. Here's what the virtual jewish library has to say about Arab lobby groups: www.jewishvirtuallibrary....urce/US-Israel/lobby.html "From the beginning, the Arab lobby has faced not only a disadvantage in electoral politics but also in organization. There are several politically oriented groups, but many of these are one man operations with little financial or popular support..."
Don't forget that he is another Israel Firster too. He spent a week several years ago broadcasting his Radio Propaganda Broadcast from Israel. As well his Radio Program is owned by Klear Channel which is owned by the Mays Family who are Apocalypse/Rupture Pseudo-Christyuns AND long time Bush Fambly Cronies.
"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.
Hi.
No, not in a long time. I'm on the wagon. :-)
"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.
Sorry if I was being too oblique. Just being funny. I'm a whipped puppy. I was just popping in for a minute before I hit the sack.
"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.
At least the Saudis pay for the weaponry they get from us. And secondly the Saudis produce a needed commodity. And thirdly the Saudis argue on America's behalf in OPEC discussions. Saudis are not financial or political burdens - unlike another free-loading ME nation state that has zero oil and which functions as a political albatross for America on the international stage. I'm not saying the Saudis are saints by any means - but I think they are assets more so than deficits. And it could be alot worse for America if the House of Saud were toppled. It's the "realist" in me talking.
England Prevails.
"What began in Russia will end in America."- 1930, Elder Ignatius of Harbin, Manchuria.
The notion that anyone in this country is an "Islamofascist" is ridiculous on its face and will only be bought by the 30 percenters who are hopeless idiots anyway. There is no contingent of Americans that are "pro Islam". There is no "5th column" of Americans that will welcome the Muslim invasion fleet that exists only in the whored out minds of pimps for the MIC like David Horowitz. That they even advance such patently absurd insinuations speaks to the weakness of their positions and arguments- all of which are based on lies. What motivates Ron Paul supporters and war opponents in general is not any latent sympathy for "Radical Islam"- but the fact that the war in Iraq and the war on terror in general are utterly unnecessary and gratuitous and serve no purpose other than to concentrate power and wealth in DC and among an oligarchy. That is why these wars are oppossed more or less. And liars like Horowitz CANNOT address that because it is so very obvious. So they do the only thing they can- they do what paid whores, ad men, and hired pens of the war state have always done- they LIE. But unfortunately for them- these lies are just stupid.
All three persons in the interview are social engineers leaning towards fascism. Fucking Horowitz is a full blown communist. Americans are allowing themselves to be swindled by dope addicts (Limbaugh and Beck), that slobber disinfo and propaganda about a true statesman, Ron Paul, who is a doctor, a husband of 50 years, a father, a grand father, a veteran, a congressman of 20 years with a pure voting record free of compromise and the ONLY statesman in D.C. without a closet full of skeletons making him a blackmail target, is being villified by shit eating scumbags that have sold out for 30 pieces of silver. Horowitz typifies Jews in America and Israel that want freedom to propagate communism or fascism for everyone else. Fuck him and Glenn Beck.
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
I believe he's been spotted holding Rudy Julie-Annie's crank in Gay Pride Parades while shouting Rudy "really" Sucks. As I understand it Mitt Rump-me has offered to marry the same (yuk) sex couple in Hucksterbees church (Hope Arkansas-hahahah).
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
MY E-MAIL TO GLENN BECK Hi Glenn, Thought I'd drop ya a note to let you know how very little I appreciate your pathetic program of disinfo and Islamo-farcism. You are either the dumbest SOB on planet earth, so eaten up with ADD, or taking bribes. All of the aforementioned conditions render you completely incapable of honestly appraising reality. I suppose that's why you make continual reference to your drunken, dope riddled past. Regardless of your past you should be ashamed of what you have become, a traitor or useful moron. Well, let me first state that you and your ilk are not going to surrender our freedoms for us even though it's obvious to me that you'd like to. Soon you won't be able to speak in public because of your lies and support for the real terror mongers trying to spread fear amongst Americans. All of the fake terror alerts, the CIA/Bush Administration paying shills like you, Chertoff bailing the Bin Ladens out of the country, NORAD standing down, building 7 falling into its own footprint, firemen and others reporting bombs going off, Odigo e- mailing Trade Tower employees 2 hours before the "attack", Kissinger (you gotta be shitting me) being named by Bush to head up the 9-11 Omission Commission, the lack of reference to building 7 in the 9-11 report, Norman Pinetta's testimony describing Cheney declining a shoot down order, 88 minute flight without interception prior to Pentagon attack ... and there's much more. Islamo-Fascism is a farce and if it ever existed it was because the U.S. Govt. Inc created it. Those elites (the ones whose boots you lick daily) have replaced the Cubans used for the Watergate break-in and the assassination projects aimed at Castro with Iraqi Red Guard that Bush and Clinton helped migrate after Gulf War I. The same CIA elements that conspired to kill Kennedy have orchestrated the WTC I bombing, the OKC bombing, WTC II and it all goes back to Daddy Bush and all of his scumbag compatriots. You're right when you admit that something's wrong in America ... and you're part of it. You, Medvedev, Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage, and O'Reilly are nothing more than shills for pro-Israeli, zionazi fascists. When they are through with you ... they will eat you and your kids, if you haven't done so already. Doug Scheidt
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
How about Mikhail Medved(ev) ... did he suck anyone in ??? Letter (e-mail) to Medved(ev): I think you're a phoney, a liar and a traitor to the United States. I think you're a Bolshevic Jew probably descended from Mikhail Medvedev, the murderer of Czar Nicholas. Your description of the State of Israel as anything but a total fraud demonstrates your disingenuous attitude towards Americans in general but more importantly your allegiance to the fake terrorist State of Israel. You and your ilk beat the Islamo-Fascist drum to death when the truth is that zionazi Jews like yourself have done more to damage this country than any other group. You and your brethern are Ashkenazi Jews, biblically descended of Japeth and not Shem. The Abrahamic covenant was with descendants of Shem, not Japeth. Those expected through Bible prophecy to attack "ISRAEL" at Armageddon are the descendants of Japeth, which would necessarily include you and your brethern. [See Gog, Magog, Togarmah, Gomer and his bands (Gomer is Ashkenaz' father) etc., at Ezekiel 37/38/39]. Your average listener is dumb enough to allow your Bush cheerleading exercises not realising your leftist leanings and past. You are a traitor, a "poopaganda" specialist, a dealer in pure shit. From another blog: Medved is a zionazi Jew. He claims to be an historian but never discusses that he shares the same name as the Bolshevic that murdered the Czar of Russia (Mikhail Medvedev = Michael Medved). www.theag e.com.au/article.../03/03/1078295443880.html They do not totally invalidate the claims by the head of the "execution" squad, Yakov Yurovsky, nor his accomplice Mikhail Medvedev (alias Kudrin) who both wrote of instructions (permission?) to kill the Romanovs coming not from Yekaterinburg itself but from Perm, the closest centre in direct telegraphic contact with Moscow. History recounts several facts relative to the success of the Bolshevic Revolution and consequent slaughter of at least 50 million people. One very important fact that cannot be disregarded is that the Bolshevics failed in 1905- 07 to accomplish their mission for two reasons. (A). They lacked "private" financing that was garnered through Wall Street in 1917. (B). They hadn't diluted the culture through mass migrations, yet. [Both of these objects to be fulfilled by the Trans-Texas Corridor and the NAU.] The Bolshevics were able to secure the private financing and attract invaders from all around Russia before the 1917 over throw, at which time one Mikhail Medvedev was one of several Bolshevics that was present when the Czar and his family were executed. The first bullet fired was into the head of the Czar, and it was fired by Medvedev. History is replete with examples of Jew arrogance that resulted in their dismissal from nearly every country that they have parasitically infiltrated. You patronize Christians that your ilk need to support your zionazi dream, but more people are awakening to your lies.
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
His supporters didn't choose Guy Fawkes, they chose V for Vendetta.
most informative!
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Excellent rant/letter! There is a boycott of the products of Beck's sponsors. here and here. Check this David Horowitz video. I think the Claremont Institute generates a lot of propaganda. www.terrorismawareness.org/islamic-mein-kampf/ I found it here: www.claremont.org/project...tid.35/project_detail.asp because I was at a protest yesterday for this event: www.claremont.org/events/eventid.99/event_detail.asp Standing on two corners to the entrance of the hotel, were about 30 people holding signs; a Vietnam veteran had extras for people like me without a sign. There was a nice big banner to greet Rumsfeld "War Criminal". And smaller ones about 9/11, torture "Who would Jesus torture?", and anti-war messages. Standing on a corner with a signal allowed more visibility. A few curious people rolled down their windows asking questions. No one knew Rumsfeld was in town. (We learned something about night protests too. White signs with very large black stenciled letters are the most visual.) A young activist went into the hotel to make a citizen's arrest of Rumsfeld, and the local police said he would have to wait to speak to the Secret Service. The Secret Service told him to get the hell out of here. BTW, why does Rumsfeld have Secret Service? This same activist challenged the mom with the son in Iraq to tell him to resist or he is culpable. She said they can't do anything, just their jobs. Her son was trained to be a mechanic, now he just sniffs for bombs (without a dog she said - I asked). Attending the Churchill dinner, were a quite a few white-haired old men in luxury automobiles turning into the hotel. Rumsfeld received an award, Statesman of the Year (I guess he does tell a lot of big lies). One old geezer attending was in the wrong lane to turn left; he shouldn't have been driving. These wealthy jerks are out-of-touch with America and reality, for years. There were several black limos. One of the limo drivers gave us a thumbs up, then quickly rolled up his window. Sadly, down the street at Fashion Island shopping mall, the parking lot was overflowing with consumers, just busy shopping. Many honked as they went by, only a few yelled something in disagreement - most just drove by. The protesters I spoke with noticed that these protests are attended by a diverse group: liberals, conservatives, libertarians, and that the labels don't mean much anymore. We are united against a common enemy, our differences are minor in comparison. I didn't even know who organized the protest. It turned out it was a local 9/11 meetup group. BTW, don't miss buckeye's post on this thread about the Saudis. Good research.
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Thanks for the heads up on this robin. I need to read the entire thread as yesterday was frittered away watching college football. It seems RP is getting the standard character assassination treatment, but more interesting to me is that his supporters are also being read out of the political process. I can't recall a political strategy like this before; the complete and total alienation of a voting bloc. It's almost as if THEY want us marginalized and clustered all together. Thank goodness I'm not conspiratorial.
Word on the street is that Americans are unlikely to respond positively to these kinds of accusations.
that's right! Well, it won't work, we are not all this or that. We are every age group, every demographic, every political persuasion. For example, the protester from San Diego does not even agree with many things Ron Paul believes in. She is for legalized abortion, she is a liberal, BUT, she is an active Ron Paul supporter, attends the meetup group there and will be voting for him. Another was saying how he would have to register as a Republican to vote for Paul. He found it distasteful but necessary. To me, this is an amazing moment in politics. George Bush is a uniter.
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Robin, I do not tend to blame Rumsfeld for what his NeoCon handlers were requiring of him. But I support your right to protest and call attention to any issue you think is noteworthy regarding his conduct as Defense Secretary. I appreciate your activism very much. Just by getting out there and showing what you think, you are asserting freedoms we all hold dear.
Rumsfeld was no mitlaufer, he was getting weekly reports on the torture at Abu Ghraib
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This is all a product of many years of error in our foreign policy. I look to the CFR authors of those policy choices, and to the President for carrying out those recommendations. I also look to the elites who have chosen to maintain these policies by selecting candidates friendly to their aims to support in the media and in academia.
lol Thanks for the sit-rep.
There's a line in the film "Julia" based on a true story, starring Jane Fonda, Vanessa Redgrave and others, where Maximilian Schell says to Jane Fonda (something like), "We are a small group of people with nothing in common but the desire to remove Hitler". Then he lists off a number of otherwise disconnected groups. That's what I see happening today. And of course, all these groups were being hunted down by the Gestapo.
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True, but Rumsfeld is still a war criminal and more. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfeld
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At the moment, I'm not interested in charging Rumsfeld or other Bush administration officials with war crimes, but I support your right to call for this to happen. I do call for Bush's immediate impeachment for his cabinet's violations of our domestic constitutional civil liberties.
Keeping the heat on them is important, IMO. This was just an oppty that could not be passed up. All of the signs, but two directed at Rumsfeld, were about 9/11 and anti-war.
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I'm proud to have the privilege of exchanging views with someone so active in expressing strong concerns over our liberties and the ethics of our international policy. Please keep up the good work. When you indicate that you believe something has been immoral in our foreign policy, you're walking in the footsteps of Henry David Thoreau.
I didn't know he was a terrorist too.
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www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/...civ_reader_2/thoreau.html Quite the radical, thanks.
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If Lou Dobbs truly loved America, he would debate Glen Beck, unscrew his head and shit in it.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
Anti-Saudi propaganda by the neocons is a false flag. The House of Saud is a lot friendlier to both the US and Israel than any alternative, and the neocons know it. I think that their goal in phony "protests" over weapons sales to the Saudis is to make it look as though AIPAC and the neocons don't have full sway over mideast policy, when in fact they do. Mubarak in Egypt and the House of Saud are partners with the US and Israel in the NWO plan to carve up the middle east, not opponents.
Anyone who even takes the word "Islamofascist" seriously is too stupid for words. The word was coined by the Trotskyist Christopher Hitchens, who has now become the darling of the neocon "right wing" because he shares their views on war in the Middle East. That tells you how principled GOP "conservatives" are when they start using the catch phrases of Bolshies.
For all your dust-up about the Saudis, you are either purposely or naively missing the elephant in the room - the nation whose lobby is #2 most powerful in DC; the nation we send $3+ Billion foreign aid per year; the nation we protect from numerous UN resolutions and censure; the nation that is a paraiha on the world's stage due to its brutal occupation of land it has stolen; a nation that refuses to sign a mutual defense treaty with us or anybody else but whose heads of state prod us to start wars to benefit it - Iraq and now Iran. The Saudis' negative influence on our nation is peanuts as compared to Israel's. The Saudis lobby is a laugh if that's what you mean by "legendary" - in fact American Jews speak derisively about the Arab lobbies' lack of organization and lack of influence and support from the general public. Even major US corporations ( apart from oil companies) do not support the Arab lobbies for fear of retaliation from the Israel Lobby. I suggest you read the article at the following url: www.jewishvirtuallibrary....urce/US-Israel/lobby.html "The Israeli and Arab Lobbies" As for Yaroslav Trofimov's information, I would suggest to you that due to Mr. Trofimov's tribal membership, he writes with a purpose and with a particular slant. I noticed via Google hits that he is embraced by IsraelFirst journals and organizations and blogs. We don't need Trofimov's biased judgement of what constitutes "a major element" of Bin Laden's anger towards the USA. We only need to listen to Bin Laden's words. OBL himself has reiterated the 4 reasons why he hates us - our resolute unyielding support of Israel in spite of its brutal treatment of the Palestinians ( that's the biggie most important one in OBL's eyes) - our occupation ( and desecration) of Islamic Holy places - in Iraq and formerly in Saudi Arabia - our support of several brutal strongmen in Muslim lands like Mubarrek in Egypt, the Saudi Princes in S.A., Musharref in Pakistan, the Prince Abdullah of Jordan - our excessive use and abuse of Muslim oil resources paid for at minimal prices - so our economies flourish while Muslims live in poverty Our fealty to Israel come hell or high water is the main sticking point with OBL and other fundies. End of story. With regards to the "complex" B.C.C.I affair you forget to include the name of Israeli Iran-Contra merchant, Adnan Khashoggi, and primo legal advisor Robert Altman. Regardless of who was involved, the BCCI affair was in the main about money laundering from drugs and illegal weapons sales with so many interests participating so it's hard for me to understand your claim that the Saudi Arabian gov't used BCCI to furnish nukes to Pakistan. That's a stretch. With regards to weapons, the US is a major weapons manufacturer and seller on the world scene, like it or not. The Saudis are just one of our nation's creepy clients. What's your beef? At least the Saudis pay top dollar for our weapons. They don't free-load like Israel. And the Saudis don't use the weapons to bully its neighbors ( like Israel does to Lebanon) or to steal land from others ( like Israel does to the Palestinians 24/7). Moreover Israel doesn't care if the US sells weapons to the Saudis because Israel gets to whine and get more foreign aid as a result. Also Israel doesn't fear attack from Saudi Arabia. In the article url about Arab and Israel lobbies, it clearly states that there is little conflict between the 2 sides because the Israel lobby could care less about the US selling Arab nations arms. The war in Iraq had all to do with the USA protecting its oil interests in the ME. The US did not need any urging from Saudi Arabia to beat back Uncle Saddam. And Bush Sr. got a UN resolution supporting Gulf War I - it wasn't like the Saudis were the only ones wanting Saddam cut down to size. One of the biggest financial backers of Gulf War I was Japan. Also, it was due to pressure from the Gulf nations that Bush Sr was not allowed to invade Iraq. The Saudis and other Arab nations PREVENTED a full scale invasion of Iraq during Gulf War I. They did not want a de-stabilizing ME war in their backyards ( unlike Israel who enjoys Arab states being de-stabilized and Muslims offed by the kazillions). As for the madras - so what? - you think these schools cause hatred for us? Hello, it's our governments aggression in the ME and our gov'ts stalwart defense of Israel inspite of its war crimes that is the major source of Muslim hostility to us. It's our flawed foreign policy that's damaging our credibility far more than any madras cleric teacher could hope to achieve. If you have not already read Drs. Mearsheimer's and Walt's book "The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy" I suggest you do. Read pages 141 - 146 wherein the 2 scholars make it very clear that Saudi Arabia specifically, the oil industry, and the Arab lobbies are modest if not trivial influences on our nation's foreign policies. Keep this quote in your mind when you consider negative influence of a lobby group: www.newyorker.c om/archive/2005/07/04/050704fa_fact "Real Insiders: A pro-Israel lobby and an F.B.I. sting" ... aipac’s leaders can be immoderately frank about the group’s influence. At dinner that night with Steven Rosen, I mentioned a controversy that had enveloped aipac in 1992. David Steiner, a New Jersey real-estate developer who was then serving as aipac’s president, was caught on tape boasting that he had “cut a deal” with the Administration of George H. W. Bush to provide more aid to Israel. Steiner also said that he was “negotiating” with the incoming Clinton Administration over the appointment of a pro-Israel Secretary of State. “We have a dozen people in his”-Clinton’s-“headquarters … and they are all going to get big jobs,” Steiner said. Soon after the tape’s existence was disclosed, Steiner resigned his post. I asked Rosen if aipac suffered a loss of influence after the Steiner affair. A half smile appeared on his face, and he pushed a napkin across the table. “You see this napkin?” he said. “In twenty- four hours, we could have the signatures of seventy senators on this napkin.”...
Ping to you, rupert - you see through the ruse as well.
And keep this phrase in mind re our honorable Congress ... Amen Corner. Who was it coined the phrase? Oh yeah, PJB. And AIPAC, ADL, Abe Rosenthal ... etc ad nauseam made mince meat of him and relegated him to the fringe of Republican influence. Pat, right on the Israel lobby, right on La Raza, "Right From the Beginning" ... if only we knew then (almost two decades ago) what we know now. .
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
I only meant that we give the average Arab more reason to hate us because of our support for governments like the Sauds. Funny thing, it Osama bin Laden and the other fundy nuts that want oppressive laws like those found in SA.
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
I don't think I'm missing anything at all. I'm interested in eliminating all types of foreign interference withing our government, not just the Zionist lobby. I would suggest to you that due to Mr. Trofimov's tribal membership, he writes with a purpose and with a particular slant. Are you denying that the CIA participated in the hostage crisis? What is your specific objection to the basic facts I'm citing here? With regards to the "complex" B.C.C.I affair you forget to include the name of Israeli Iran-Contra merchant . . . You asked for examples of Saudi involvement in our government and I gave them to you. I'm confident that you can provide all of us with a long list of Jewish and Israeli interference. The Saudis are just one of our nation's creepy clients. What's your beef? I think we should disengage with the entire region. I hope those are Ron Paul's intentions. I would start the disengagement by cutting weapons sales off completely to the region. As for the madras - so what? - you think these schools cause hatred for us? It's part of the radicalization of the Islamic world, yes. I especially object to the Saudi mosque construction here in the United States. We've had hundreds going up around the country since the 1979 grand mosque incident. If you have not already read Drs. Mearsheimer's and Walt's book "The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy" I suggest you do. Read pages 141 - 146 wherein the 2 scholars make it very clear that Saudi Arabia specifically, the oil industry, and the Arab lobbies are modest if not trivial influences on our nation's foreign policies. Trivial? I would hardly call the past 35 years of our petrodollar based economy trivial. "Real Insiders: A pro-Israel lobby and an F.B.I. sting" Once again, you asked for a list of Saudi interferences, and I gave them to you. You dispute them, fine but the longstanding and close ties between the American Establishment and the Saudis is of public record. You come up with Israeli counter-examples, and I say no doubt. Let's eliminate both.
well I think youve missed something important here.. they are linked..you need to peel back a few layers.. the Saudis and the Israelis .. and throw in the Turks as well all linked for the same reason.. have you ever researched the Saudi royal family? .. that might be a place to start I failed to mention the Saudi connection to 9/11.. google PTECH & PROMIS & the Saudis..
Just ask the Axis.
No doubt, Zipporah. The truly radical Islamists point this out every day, from what I understand. They identify the royal Sauds with Zionism. All the more reason to back out of the region and let nature run its course. If Americans want to donate their money and blood Lincoln-brigade style, they can join either side. They may not be welcome to come home, though. We have our own interests — and borders to defend.
I agree.. I edited my post and you may not have seen my reference to PTECH & PROMIS and the Saudis.. The Turks too had a hand in all this.. read what Indira Singh had to say on this.. very disturbing.
Thanks for the pointers. I don't know where to start looking for information on these terms, plus the Singh commentary, but I'll search for them when I get a chance.
Let me get you some links.. 911citizenswatch.org/?p=436 - PTECH, 9/11, and USA-SAUDI TERROR - Part I www.madcowprod.com/mc4522004.html - "Can you say BCCI? . The tale begins almost right after the 9/11 attack, when, in October of 2001, handful of ex-Ptech employees alerted the FBI to evidence indicating that the firm had Saudi terror connections. Saudi terrorists, Saudi money, and JP Morgan Chase Almost a year later the Boston FBI had still done nothing about it. They had, in fact, shut down their cursory investigation and taken no action. Thus Ptech was still operating at the highest levels of American society in the Spring of 2002, when the firm showed up hustling business at the door of Wall Street’s JP Morgan Chase. The question is “why?” On its surface, the answer appears to be “money.” Lots and lots of Saudi money. Indira Singh, who later became a whistleblower, was an unwitting eyewitness to the “train wreck.” “I invited Ptech to come down and give a presentation and a customized demo to JP Morgan Chase,” states Singh, who was a consultant to the bank on “risk architecture,” an arcane software specialty which calculates enterprise risk. In one of the story’s many ironic twists, Singh was at the time designing a system to help JP Morgan Chase detect terrorist money laundering. When Ptech showed up, Singh quickly realized that she was witnessing her worst fears about compromised security come true. “Within half an hour on the premises, I knew something was up,” she says. “They had almost immediately raised about six of my red flags, to the point where I walked over to my desk and picked up the phone, and began making phone calls.” She talked with a respected industry figure who had once worked at Ptech. “He was shocked to learn that I had invited Ptech on the premises. He told me the company belonged to Yasin Qadi.” In the course of what would otherwise have been just another day at the bank, Indira Singh made the amazing discovery that the firm in front of her at the moment was owned by Saudis, including Yasin Qadi, with suspected as well as proven ties to the terrorists who carried out the 9/11 attack. All this left her feeling more than a little surprised."
Are you denying that the CIA participated in the hostage crisis? What is your specific objection to the basic facts I'm citing here? You asked for examples of Saudi involvement in our government and I gave them to you. I'm confident that you can provide all of us with a long list of Jewish and Israeli interference. It's part of the radicalization of the Islamic world, yes. I especially object to the Saudi mosque construction here in the United States. We've had hundreds going up around the country since the 1979 grand mosque incident. Trivial? I would hardly call the past 35 years of our petrodollar based economy trivial. Once again, you asked for a list of Saudi interferences, and I gave them to you. You dispute them, fine but the longstanding and close ties between the American Establishment and the Saudis is of public record. You come up with Israeli counter-examples, and I say no doubt. Let's eliminate both. Your initial harangue against the Saudis' so-called interference in our national affairs in message #47 and #32 said nothing about eliminating all lobby groups including the "leviathan" one ie. the Israel Lobby. This is the first I've read of your desire to eliminate all lobby groups. I would agree with you that would be a fine goal. But I'd also qualify that goal by saying that we should start with the biggest and most influential one first ie. AIPAC. Would you agree? With regards to some of your new points about the Saudis - I disagree with most of them particularly the ones regarding the start of AQ linked to the Mosque hi- jacking and the Saudis insisting that OPEC use the greenback and the Saudis funding the construction of mosques stateside. a. AQ had its beginnings vis-a-vis our meddling in the Soviet -Afghan War. - Brezinski and Carter gave the go-ahead to the CIA to train the mujahideen to fight the Russians. OBL himself was trained in that stupid CIA project and it was in Afghanistan that OBL suddenly realized how the Muslims were being used as proxy fighters/as pawns in the Cold War that existed between the Soviets and America. AQ's formation was an unintended consequence of the CIA training of and financial aid to the mujahideen. Zbigniew Brezinski brags about the project. He told an interviewer in 1998 that the U.S. began funnelling aid to the mujahideen terrorists six months before the Soviet Union intervened, with the intention of drawing the Soviets into their own Vietnam. Robin Cook, who was Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs of the United Kingdom from 1997 to 2001, is quoted as saying on 07/08/05: "Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west." Our government created the monster called AQ and that monster has come back to bite its master. b. As for the Saudis insisting that oil industry use petro dollars - I think you have things switched around regarding who benefits from this system. It's in America's interests that all OPEC oil purchases continue to be denominated in US dollars and in fact this dollar hegemony over global oil markets was a result of an agreement between the USA and Saudi Arabia in the 1970's. In fact, Saudi Arabia at an OPEC meeting this past week prevented discussions about formally switching to a basket of currencies due to the diminishing value of the greenback. Get it? Saudi Arabia argued on our nation's behalf. Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states are experiencing record high inflation rates due to their sticking to the US $ peg. However, Israel looked out for itself recently - Israel demanded that US foreign aid be sent to it in Euros not US dollars. Nice. Here's a decent article describing our US dollar dominence and how we extracted an agreement from OPEC in the 70's to use peg their oil sales to the greenback. www.atimes.com/global- econ/DD11Dj01.html "US dollar hegemony has got to go" By Henry C K Liu 04/11/02 c. As for mosques being built in the USA - so what? Last I heard freedom of religion is a guaranteed right stateside. Ours is a tolerant pluristic society. Are you worried about those eeeevil "Islamofacsists" in our midst who might congregate in mosques funded by the Saudis? I have no doubt there are a number of FBI divisions specifically assigned to monitoring what goes on in the mosques here so you can sleep better that no AQ are hiding there. d. As to the madras and spread of Wahabiism - it was at the direction of the Carter Admin that Saudi Arabia fuel the Afghan Islamic fundie screed. But like our CIA arming and training the mujahideen, the Saudis funding the madras came back to bite us and them. The Saudi Princes are illegitimate rulers in the eyes of fundie Islamists, btw. From a BBC article on the beginnings of "Jihad": ..."Bernard Haykel, professor of Near East studies at Princeton, believes the Saudis set in motion a process over which they lost control. The Saudis' funding of militant Islam reached a new pitch in the 1980s when, with the United States and others, they bankrolled the jihad against Soviet troops occupying Afghanistan. The Afghan war was the crucible from which emerged al-Qaeda. "The genie came out of the bottle," says Professor Haykel, "and the Saudis could no longer put it back in." ... e. Btw, I have never disputed that there is a long standing relationship between Saudi Arabia and our government. What I have said is that the pluses of that relationship out weighed any minuses. Ideally it would be great if our economy was not oil based because then we would not need to involve ourselves with OPEC and the Saudis. But until be can become self-reliant in energy we will continue to need the assistence of the House of Saud. However, I believe are in the driver's seat with regards to the Saudis and they play a beneficial role by running interference for us at OPEC. That is not the case with Israel. Israel is a financial parasite and a political burden of enormous proportions and its lobby groups and individuals have negative influences on our nation's ME foreign policy.
Shill for the Saudis much? Carlyle Grp maybe?
What North American Union? DAnconia55 is Glen. Final Authority is Beck.
It's a false dilemma. We don't have to choose which, since we can eliminate both by electing a non-interventionist, Constitutional candidate who is focused on the needs of the American people first and foremost. Brezinski and Carter gave the go-ahead to the CIA to train the mujahideen to fight the Russians. I'm familiar with that. It does not contradict my point of view at all. In fact, it supports my point of view that western involvement in Arab dictatorships encourages extremism. We should disengage, specifically because our role has thus far been to prop up the house of Saud instead of letting the Arab people decide their own destiny there. I will not agree with you that the extremism would not have existed without Establishment ties. From Indonesia and Afghanistan to Kososvo and Chechnya, the factions were there. CFR think tankers simply realized that they had a natural ally in the pro-Islamic fighters. What I have said is that the pluses of that relationship out weighed any minuses. Leaving the individual Arabs out of this, I see the relationship between Saudi Arabia and the United States as having been dominated by the Establishment. As a strong critic of the Establishment's tendencies toward global government and the sacrifice of American sovereignty and cultural integrity on the altars of international commerce, I would be willing to concede that much of what I continue to think of as an unhealthy relationship has been brought on by our own reliance on the Council on Foreign Relations and before that, the Round Table Club. With military disengagement with the region, we could rethink our ties to factions within Saudi Arabia. I suspect that the Saudis are going to face one crisis after another regardless of what we do next. As those problems mount, I would like to see the American involvement in them reduced or eliminated so that we have fewer chances of incurring additional blow back.
One of us is seriously confused. I presume you are being facetious with this paragraph, my friend?
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
The House of Saud had zero to do with 9/11. It's a false canard that is used as a distraction from the real culprits. That the majority of 9/11 terrorists had Saudi citizenship does not mean that the Saudi government sponsored 9/11. The Saudi intel agencies can barely keep the Princes safe - they are in a word incompetent and completely incapable to help plot 9/11. That Saudi family members were allowed to fly out after 9/11 means what exactly? It merely illustrates a well known fact of life in DC -the Saudi Family has pull with the White House as it always has for eons. Big deal. Did you know that the Saudi government actually argued that redacted passages of the 9/11 Commission report be allowed to see the light of day to the general public because they were concerned about what the redaction implied. Their requests fell on deaf ears with the Bush Admin and the 9/11 Commission. Furthermore regarding the Ptech thingie - like the guy wrongly dragged through the mud for allegedly sending anthrax through the mail - big todo about nothing. Here's a 2003 article about Ptech: masshightech.bizjournals....es/2003/08/25/newscolumn2. html?page=1 "Ware-Withal: Wrongly suspected Ptech, CEO bounce back slowly" If you feel that there were "insiders" to 9/11 event, a more fruitful focus might be on an Israeli-run private telecom company called Comverse Infosys per the 4 part series of Carl Cameron: www.informationc learinghouse.info/article7545.htm "Israel Is Spying In And On The U.S.?" parts 1-4
I presume you are being facetious with this paragraph, my friend? Yes and no. That there are mosques in the USA is a function of our immigration policies. What do you expect to happen when Muslims are allowed to immigrate here? Do you think new Muslim-Americans are suddenly going to convert to Catholicism and pray to Allah in churches? Get real. But truthfully speaking, I don't feel any more threatened by mosques than I am by synogogues or by Hindu temples appearing in American cities. Why should I? Or more importantly - why are you concerned?
I realize we have freedom of religion here, for Americans. When foreign Saudis spend millions building mosques here, it's a cultural invasion. Ron Paul would permit this, and I am supporting Ron Paul. It is also one aspect of his campaign that I disagree with. Then again, I'm no professed multiculturalist.
b. I'm familiar with that. It does not contradict my point of view at all. In fact, it supports my point of view that western involvement in Arab dictatorships encourages extremism. c. As a strong critic of the Establishment's tendencies toward global government and the sacrifice of American sovereignty and cultural integrity on the altars of international commerce, I would be willing to concede that much of what I continue to think of as an unhealthy relationship has been brought on by our own reliance on the Council on Foreign Relations and before that, the Round Table Club. d. With military disengagement with the region, we could rethink our ties to factions within Saudi Arabia. a. It's not a false dilemna. It's called being realistic. Electing a constitutionalist President Paul is just one step on a long road ahead of us to set our nation straight constitutionally speaking. Changes are not going to happen overnight. There's still Congress that needs to be cleaned out of all its incumbent sold out bought out punks so constitutionalists can be installed in their places. Therefore eliminating ALL lobby groups is not going to happen right away. Eliminating the biggest one regarding our mis-directed current foreign policy would be a realist goal for starters. And in that regard, the Israel Lobby would be my pick as being the most noxious one to our nation's interests. Would you agree? b. Whatever. You say white and I say black. At least I recognize that you and I disagree. You pretend that my arguments support your position. They do not. The Israel-Palestinian situation and our blind faith backing of Israel's war crimes is the single most attraction of Muslims to AQ. The major hatred for America is not our supporting Mubarrek, the Saudi princes, the King of Jordan. If we became fair peace brokers in the Israeli-Palestinian situation, it would diminish 60% of the Muslim hatred directed at America today. c. I don't understand what point you are trying to make. You have 1 sentence that ran 6 lines. Whatever floats your boat. d. We can disengage from propping the Saudis AFTER we figure out a cheap fossil fuel alternative for running our industries and cars. Until then, the Saudis are a necessary vice to keep our economy from running into the gutter overnight.
Are you sure we don't have as much or more oil than the Saudis do? Lindsey Williams says that we have enough to last more than 200 years in Alaska, but it's being held under wraps to prop up our securities deal with OPEC. I'm against America's involvement in the United Nations and I would not support a presidential candidate who promised to pressure Israel regarding the Palestinian issue. For me, disengagement is not about retreating from Islamic anger. It's about maintaining our own territorial boundaries and cultural integrity.
Article not found .. the bizjournals one.. at any rate, so b/c an article cites Ptech as being 'clean' that means it's so? Please.. get on the clue bus..
b. I'm against America's involvement in the United Nations and I would not support a presidential candidate who promised to pressure Israel regarding the Palestinian issue. For me, disengagement is not about retreating from Islamic anger. It's about maintaining our own territorial boundaries and cultural integrity. a. Is Lindsey Williams an oil expert? Is Lindsey a geological engineer? I'm not an oil expert but I doubt there's 200 years of oil resources in Alaska or if there is vast quantities it would be expensive to extricate much like the oil from the tar sands of Alberta. The beauty of the ME oil resources is that it is so inexpensive to get and use. It almost literally spouts out of the sands. b. I could care less whether we're in the UN or not. It's not a biggy issue to me apart from the fact that US tax dollars are wasted in the support of Third World thugs and thieves. With regards to Israel, I could care less whether it survives or dies on the vine. America's survival is not contingent on what happens to Israel. Countries need to defend themselves to survive and earn nationhood longevity. African nations have come and gone as long as they could or could not support themselves financially and defend their sovereignity. So it should be for Israel. However it would be in Israel's interest of survival to back off to 1967 borders and make strong neighbors of the Palestinians peoples. In the near future the population explosion of Muslims in nearby nation states will over run the Israelis. It's a demographic fact of life. No walls or tanks or rockets will prevent Israel from being swamped in the future by very very angry Muslim tribes. We made a mistake of supporting a UN resolution to create Israel out of thin air. We shouldn't double that mistake by giving Israel a false sense of security that it can do whatever war crimes it wants to the Palestinians and Lebanese and we will support it forever. We will not support Israel forever especially if it is over run by Muslim hordes. Americans will not knowingly put American soldiers in harm's way to protect and defend Israel regardless of what our political punks yammer to the media and especially if 40 Million Mexican illegals get US citizenship and play a dominent role in future US elections. Mexicans identify with the down-trodden brown skinned Palestinians not the Israelis. So if Israel wants to survive, it needs to redress the wrongs it has committed over the years against the Palestinians. The Muslim wrath against the Israelis regarding its ill-treatment and land thievery of Palestinian land is well founded. I don't see that we would "retreat" from Muslim anger by trying to honestly broker a fair resolution to the unfair situation that exists today. But if we can't be fair and honest brokers for peace, then we should bow out completely from the Israeli-Palestinian crisis and let other powers intervene. The Israeli-Palestinian situation has nothing to do with "maintaining our own territorial boundaries and cultural integrity" that I can see.
b. at any rate, so b/c an article cites Ptech as being 'clean' that means it's so? Please.. get on the clue bus.. a. Here's the biz journal url - hope it works this time round - you may need to cut and paste the url: http://masshightech.bizjournals.com/masshightech/stories/2003/08/25/newscolumn2. html?page=1 "Ware-Withal: Wrongly suspected Ptech, CEO bounce back slowly" b. As I said, the Saudis are incapable of doing anything except what the US tells them to do. They are not the sharpest knives in the ME intel drawer. I don't think they are capable of putting together a 9/11 insider intel company. The Saudi are fat greedy illegitimate rulers. They have more than enough $ from oil. All they care about is leading their decadent life styles and ruling over their unhappy people. The Saudis are not so sophisticated that they are into plotting 9/11 events or front companies. How would they benefit from 9/11? It makes no sense whatsoever. There's only one ME nation that would benefit from 9/11. Buy a clue yourself and look into Comverse Infosys and the nation that fronts it.
It does make perfect sense.. if you connect the dots.. what has more than one 9/11 whistleblower mentioned? Drugs and illegal arm sales.. it's about $$$ for some and a few other things for that matter.. If you research the names.. who they are .. what groups they're connected with.. the muslim brotherhood and the CIA.. read about all the whisteblowers the ones w/connections to 9/11 and the picture will become more clear. And I dont have to buy myself a clue Im not a dolt I already know about Infosys issue for quite some time.
Williams says it costs us $3/barrel to get in Alaska. Even if he's wrong, we've cut back on our oil refineries and exploration here, and every CFR member politician opposes drilling in ANWR, in the Everglades, and on California's coastline. This puts OPEC at a distinct advantage. It puts Saudi Arabia at a distinct advantage. Their purchases of our treasury securities, even if not secretly quid pro quo, only serve to prop up our increasingly socialist and interventionist system of government. I could care less whether we're in the UN or not. It's not a biggy issue to me apart from the fact that US tax dollars are wasted in the support of Third World thugs and thieves. It's a huge issue for American nationalists. We typically supply foreign aid directly to our favorite dictators rather than going through the UN. These are separate issues. Our sovereignty is diminished by pressures to adhere to international court rulings and treaties signed with the UN, as well as to send our troops to war. UN resolutions were invoked as we bombed Serbia and invaded Iraq, for example. We occupy Kosovo because of NATO agreements. The list of problems caused by our participation in international organizations is long and dreary, but it adds up to lost American freedoms. We made a mistake of supporting a UN resolution to create Israel out of thin air. We shouldn't double that mistake by giving Israel a false sense of security that it can do whatever war crimes it wants to the Palestinians and Lebanese and we will support it forever. Participation in the UN a problem? In any case, I have no objections to the actions the Allies took in the former Ottoman empire and Palestine, as these steps proved strategic during WWII and the Cold War. In 1973, we could have walked away from Israel and never gone back as far as I'm concerned. Certainly I agree that we do not need to take another action to ensure its survival at this time. A hundred years of manipulating the region's boundaries and cultures have caused us more than enough trouble. But the most serious aspects of it were from the Nazis and the Soviets. Now that those threats are diminished, we can walk away. I don't expect you to agree with me, I'm just letting you know where I stand. The Muslim wrath against the Israelis regarding its ill-treatment and land thievery of Palestinian land is well founded But if we can't be fair and honest brokers for peace, then we should bow out completely from the Israeli-Palestinian crisis and let other powers intervene. As of 1973, it works for me. In fact, we're more likely to get along with our former Russian rivals in the region if we disengage militarily with all of these countries. The Israeli-Palestinian situation has nothing to do with "maintaining our own territorial boundaries and cultural integrity" that I can see. None of this does, which is why we should disengage militarily with all nations in the region and go back to talking and trading. I am confident that nature will run its course with us or without us.
a. I very much doubt that low $3 figure for getting oil from ANWAR. I've read that Saudi Arabia's old oil wells are damaged due to over pumping and infiltration of salt water. So the House of Saud may soon outgrow its usefulness for cheap oil in the near future anyways. The CFR needs to work with public opinion and even if oil were 2 cents per gallon off the cpoast of California and ANWAR, there's no politician stateside who is going to buck public opinion regarding protection of our ecology and coastline. Sorry I don't buy that CFR machination at all. b. We control the UN through our permanent Security Council along with the UK. We entered Kosovo because we wanted to - BillyJeff needed a distraction from Monicagate. We use the UN for cover when it suits us and we act pre-emptively when it suits us. I don't see the UN having any effect on our sovereign rights or choices. It's simply a gang bang of the US taxpayer that's all, a mandated waste of our tax dollars on thugocracies, a not so subtle Marxist re- distribution of wealth from have countries to non-have Third World rulers' pockets. c. If you refer to the Balfour Declaration as raison d'etre for Israel's formal creation in 1948 - come on, that was the Zionists' bribe requirement ofBritain to excert their considerable influence stateside to get America involved in WWI. The 1948 UN resolution was a result of Europe's guilt. Truman got on the same page at the last minute due to Zionist pressure - future votes hung in the balance after all. d. We would not have had a problem with Russia in the 1950's if we had not allied ourselve with "Uncle Joe" and had let the Naziis and Commies duke it out to point of death in Russia. FDR could have prevented Pearl Harbor - he wanted us in WWII and we sold out 20 Million Eastern Europeans in the end to good old Uncle Joe whose power and influence grew substantially due to our WWII alliance with him. There would have been no "Cold War" if we had let Stalin go down in flames along with Hitler in WWII. WWII was NOT a good war imo. Nor was WWI or Korea or Vietnam or Kosovo or Iraq. American lives have been wasted for lies the past 200 years.
Lots of what if's and maybes in there. We've done what we've done, and we should learn from it. What I've learned from it is that we should now take a good opportunity to walk away from the Mideast while we've got it. I'll believe we need their oil when we've pumped the last drum out of the ground on our own soil.
Just my two cents before turning in. Here's a bit I posted "over there", quite a while back. No nation that enforces sharia can be "modern". Agreed, and virtually every ME nation, given the opportunity of Whorge's imposition of "democracy" on them, will choose sharia, IMO. There is only one sensible policy with reference to the God forsaken ME: 1) Cease the ill conceived "crusade", SAP. 2) Listen to the advice of Srdja Trifkovic, Chronicles Magazine contributor, who urges quarantine of the ME nations, i.e, strengthen the security of our borders, severely and very selectively limit immigration of Muslims to our county, and strengthen our weakened C.I.A. Anything less and we will go the way of Great Britain and the rest of Europe that has failed too long to impose such logic, thus placing them in very precarious positions. ============================================================================== While searching for (and failing to find) Trifkovic's fine article on this topic, I found and offer this by Jim Pinkerton. I found it thought provoking. Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
Glenn Beck is a Judeo-FASCIST. That's why he has a show on TelAvivision.
Register to vote for Ron Paul NOW.
Hear hear.
I'll believe we need their oil when we've pumped the last drum out of the ground on our own soil. I like RP's position which is trade with all, be friendly in our dealings with everyone, AND MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS and put our own house in order which cries for attention - say bridges anyone? With regards to ME oil, realistically in the short term ( the next 10 years) we need their black gold. We should expect to pay more $ for it and why not? It's their only resource - it's non renewable and we've been buying it on the cheap for many many years to boost our economy and life style. Fair is fair. However, in the interim I think we should re-direct all the $ we have given to MIC and the DOD the past 60 years and focus it on research at our fine universities to developing petro substitutes ( realistic ones not corn I'm sorry) and fuel efficient auto engine designs as well as construction of nuclear power plants. Frankly, Anwar and CA coast drilling will be so tied up in the courts we'd never see any positive outcome in our life time even if we assume there's vast quantities of cheap oil deposits in both areas ( I'm doubtful). A multi-pronged investment in becoming self-sufficient and independent of ME oil within the next 10 years is the way to go in my opinion.
Our immigration levels of Muslims are pawltry as compared to the Europeans. Our cheap labor has been from Mexico by the millions. The Europeans have used labor from Muslim nations who were in some cases former colonies. Also we have done a much better effort to assimilate the Muslim immigrants we have taken in than the Europeans have. Fyi the Iranians for example are the most upwardly mobile of all immigrant groups we have taken in the past 30 years. I don't fear the religion of Islam whatsoever. Muslims don't try to convert me. They have their beliefs and I have mine. The fundie Christo nutters are far more annoying for evangelizing. And the Jews are far more aggressive with regards to having Christianity wiped off the historical place marks of our nation by submitting legal court challenges and intimidating municipal departments regarding a their interpretation of separation between church and state. What MSM has Americans all worked up about ( and falsely so I believe) relates to the small subset of Islamics - the fundies. Every religion has the same extremist minority. Mainstream Islam itself calls for tolerance and acceptance. In fact prior to Israel being established, the ME Muslims were far more tolerant of Jews than the Christians in Europe were. As for cultural social concerns, I think you have more to fear from La Raza and its illegal Hispanic foot soldiers who want to claim southern border states for Azetlan. When you call gov't departments your choice of language is English and Spanish not English and Farsi.
My summary reaction to your posts would be to crown you King of American Multiculturalists. Personally, I don't fear rogue elephants whatsoever, but then we keep elephants pretty well contained and controlled. Jews don't convert. Muslims most certainly do. Have you noticed where they are most active? In our prisons and with the most alienated members of our turmoil torn society. Has it occurred to you that the most significant conversion successes are with those that are least assimilated and ready made for conversion to a violent and aggressive "religion"? There's quite a difference between being "annoyed" by "fundis", Mormons or Jehovah's witnesses and being converted Muslim style. BTW, try not to get "converted" by them, "uncoversion" is not in their vocabulary. We had, if you'll recall, no sooner imposed Bush's "democracy" on Afghanistan when some poor bastard was threatened with death for attempting to convert and marry a Christian girl. Stoning and murder of innocents are what they carry in their conversion kits, not tracts. Their stonyhearted god of rules and their heavenly reward of virgins is alien to our historical Judeo-Christian republic. Their cultures are antithetical to all of western civilization. Their concept of tolerance is Dhimmitude. Islam means "Submission", and before you give me a sanitized Islamic definition of allow me to provide one recent illustration of Muslim tolerance and assimilation (examples abound). In Nov., 2004 a brutal murder shocked Holland and the world. On a busy Amsterdam street, in broad daylight, a prominent film maker named Theo van Gogh was shot, stabbed and mutilated in front of dozens of witnesses. A young Muslim radical was arrested. What was described as a ritual slaughter set off alarm bells throughout Europe and the United States, where millions of devout Muslims live as minorities in secular society. For the Dutch who have prided themselves for centuries on a tradition of tolerance, it was a painful awakening, the prospect of a homegrown jihad in the world's most liberal state. Preventative medicine is the way to go not, "feel good", unreal anticipation of some future reasoning with the unreasonable. One may feel comfortable and unthreatened at the moment in Paris, TX, .... Paris, France or London, England is quite another Finally, why introduce the invasion of our southern border into the discussion? Only the elitists now in control of a (hopefully temporary) helpless and bewildered American fail to see the phenomena as our most significant threat. Epilogue: Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
b. Finally, why introduce the invasion of our southern border into the discussion? a. Because I am not threatened by different ethnicities or cultures, does that make me "King of Multiculturalists?" Let's be clear on this matter so you don't go around labelling me something I am not, based on your limited ( a couple of days posting here) knowledge of my political positions. I'm very much pro-melting pot as opposed to multi-culturalism. I'm very much pro-legal immigration that matches America's economic/professional needs to immigration candidates. Ergo, if we are in need of experienced M.D.'s, I would take a Pakistani or Iranian M.D. over a Catholic bartender from Ireland. I could care less about "religious beliefs". I care about skills that our nation needs at any given time that cannot be supplied by Americans already here. So are we clear on where I stand? b. You introduced the concept of "threat" to our cultural social fabric first with your linked article to the "carnage and culture blogspot". I was merely responding to your expressed concerns. And what "threatens" our nation currently is not the prospect of Sharia Law but rather it is racist anti- American organizations like La Raza and its millions of illegal Hispanic foot soldiers(who appear to have zero interest in assimilating into American culture even if they were made legal overnight) as well as the US politicians who pander to this group of law breakers. My point is if you are going to stay up at night worrying about "ciulture and carnage" at least wring your hands about something that is real and under your nose and not something that is a neocon- manufactured fear mongering "Islamofascist" concept. P.S. Re: your fears about Sharia Law use in the West - it's my understanding that it would be used much like Orthodox Judaic Law is currently used - to resolve family legal disputes and it would only be applied if all parties consent. Fyi, in Canada for example one of the most vocal supporters of Sharia Law implementation in one of the provinces was the Jewish community.
Eeek. Sharia Law! Oh my! Good Grief- it gets more and more embarassing each passing day to be identified as an American. Pretty soon the dictionary is going to have an entry for coward in the dictionary like "as in as cowardly as an American."
Because I am not threatened by different ethnicities or cultures, does that make me "King of Multiculturalists?" Your statement comes pretty close to the definition of a multiculturalist. What part of Balkanization do you not understand? re your fears about Sharia Law use in the West - it's my understanding that it would be used much like Orthodox Judaic Law is currently used - to resolve family legal disputes and it would only be applied if all parties consent. As far as I know, Rabbis do not prescribe wife beatings, stonings or honor killings. You introduced the concept of "threat" to our cultural social fabric first with your linked article to the "carnage and culture blogspot". I've been here a little more than a couple of days but you're the first I've encountered who posts inferences, interpretations, or conlusions as opposed to quotes from links. Mexican, Hispanic, La Raza nor anything similar is mentioned in my link. I'm very much pro-melting pot as opposed to multi-culturalism. If we're to adopt your open door policy toward Muslims we better make it a damned high temperature melting pot. ============================================================================= My point was crystal clear. Muslims present a challenge to western civilized precepts previously unencountered in our nations relatively short history. We are talking here about a people pitifully stuck in the sixth century. I do not accept the progaganda term of Islamo-facists or other froth mouthed jingoistic terms. My stance is simple ... live and let live, but, most certainly do not encourage the infection and disruption of trying to mix the oil and water (no pun intended) of the ME and the U.S.. More bluntly, let them drown in their own oil and vomit. Also, from the same previous link: Tocqueville wrote: I studied the Kuran a great deal...... I came away from that study with the conviction that by and large there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. As far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world, and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion infinitely more to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself. [Quoted by Trifkovic, page 208] I leave it to my fellow posters to ponder who is the rather "odd" man out here.
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
I'm weary of this slurry of slop cultures the PTB are allowing into our country. I'm even more weary of the culturally tolerant crew who have become steeped in political correctness. I wonder if they have taken a good look at the EU for a glimpse of what is to come our way? I'm guessing they have and frankly either want the same for us or are too cowardly to raise a bitch.
I don't know if you're into Health Freedom, but it's in dire jeopardy - on the fast-track now that the North American Union is OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POLICY in Amerika...wait till you see the EU's CODEX...coming to your home soon.
What North American Union? What North American Union? What's Health Freedom, FOH? I'm well aware of the NAU, and I'm here to tell you some among us think it's a peachy-keen idea. Those folks need a severe beating.
I leave it to my fellow posters to ponder who is the rather "odd" man out here. Your comments are self-revealing. Yes, unfortunately I may be the "odd" man out and your 'tude is likely far more common and embraced by the majority of my fellow 'merikans - ergo that's why our nation has been so easily misled into wars based on lies to bully all those "savages out there" and why our military savagery has caused us to be disgraced on the international stage.
That's totalitarian thinking, to think anybody needs a severe beating merely because of a belief -- even if it is a mistaken belief.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Let me amend my comment. Anyone who is actively working or supporting the joining of us with Mexico and Canada into a common North American Union needs to be shot, not beaten.
You'll receive no argument from me about how the family reunification immigration policy has brought no benefit to our nation's development. But for me it's not a problem of "slop cultures." It's the fact that the majority of immigrants coming here have zero professional skills/educational specialization that our nation needs. Also we have changed from a melting pot nation to one that celebrates diversity and separateness so immigrants are not encouraged to assimilate.
Thank you for asking! "Health Freedom" is our ability to privately use vitamins, minerals and other natural/alternative sources for our health. In Europe, you can only get fractional amounts and they are DISPENSED VIA BIG PHARMA in most if not all cases. I'm well aware of the NAU, and I'm here to tell you some among us think it's a peachy-keen idea. Those folks need a severe beating. I know. The Enemy Within includes lots of home grown America haters, self-loathing elites and parasites that should reconsider what is going to happen if continue the final deconstruction of our country... From the April 2007 Idaho Observer: Advancing NAU greatest threat to health freedom Americans are becoming quite ill and are realizing that the pharmaceutical industry profits immensely by making them sick—and keeping them that way. In desperation, Americans (and Canadians) are looking for alternatives. Ironically, the "alternatives" are the naturopathic modalities, herbs and diets that people commonly understood before drugs and chemically-adulterated food and drink replaced common sense. Anticipating that the human guinea pigs would someday "catch on," organized medicine began plotting to gain regulatory control of vitamins and herbs. The plan, through an international cooperative called the Codex Alimentarius Commission, which is attempting to "harmonize" the food and drug regulatory schemes under the auspices of "free trade," is THE greatest threat to health freedom in North America. While the FDA and its minions are attempting to distract the health freedom movement by publicizing its intent to adopt objectionable administrative rule changes, the political and economic dissolution of our north and south borders is marching on... By The Idaho Observer The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has become notoriously responsible for approving numerous dangerous drugs and harmful food additives. The agency should be completely dismantled, or at least reorganized and many of its policy makers held criminally accountable for their roles in maiming and killing millions of Americans with their "approvals." But the opposite is happening. Through its participation in the Trilateral Cooperation Charter and with almost zero Congressional oversight, the FDA is secretly pushing with all its administrative might for the implementation of Codex Alimentarius among North American Union nations Canada, the U.S. and Mexico. The FDA is currently acting as though a North American Union were already in place, even though there has NEVER been any implementing legislation passed by Congress to allow this rogue agency to do what it’s doing. If Canada, Mexico and the U.S. are to officially merge financially and politically as the North American Union (NAU), the current laws in place that protect our health freedoms, such as the Dietary Supplement and Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA), will be superseded by the NAU and Codex regulations. At the core of this issue is national sovereignty. It is bad enough that we have unelected representatives from the FDA representing the interests of big pharma and the bio-tech food industry rather than the citizens of the U.S. But if we lose our sovereignty as a nation, the rights of the consumer will, in effect, be replaced with the regulatory schemes intended to promote "free trade"—which is a euphemism for "fascist exploitation of resources and markets." Under Codex, consumer rights of fair access to what the FDA refers to as "complimentary and alternative modalities/medicine (CAM)" will cease to exist and will be replaced with a regulatory scheme that omits administrative remedies for relief from arbitrarily-imposed restrictions on how we choose to maintain our own health. This is why it is so important to support the current health freedom organizations that are clear on this issue and be aware of the constant attacks they endure from well-organized, controlled opposition groups. The two organizations in our country who work tirelessly to protect our health freedoms by representing consumers at international Codex meetings and opposing CAFTA and the NAU are the International Advocates for Health Freedom (IAHF) and the National Health Federation. The controlled opposition IAHF director John Hammell just had an encounter with such a controlled opposition group while he was speaking on April 14 at the annual Total Health Show in Toronto, Ontario. According to a recent email from Hammell, "Vexatious Litigant Trueman Tuck of the Friends of Freedom had a process server serve legal papers on me as I was on the stage where the crowd joined me in singing ‘Oh Canada’ and I presented a powerful program about how Codex restrictions are being ushered into the U.S. and Canada via the FDA’s Trilateral Cooperation Charter with Canada and Mexico. "Clearly, Tuck and his allies, including the U.S.-based Natural Solutions Foundation, don’t want this information seeing the light of day and they’d love to tentpeg IAHF and all Allied Organizations for attempting to stop the North American Union dictatorship from ushering Codex vitamin restrictions into North America, but they’re not going to get away with it! "Tuck is also suing Mezine, Inc., and numerous other parties, including long-time Canadian health freedom activist Marilyn Nelson, whose organization he literally hijacked in an obvious effort to try to STOP her from discussing Canadian sovereignty issues in the context of her health freedom work. "Tuck was attempting to get me to lose my composure just before I participated in a panel discussion with Robert Verkerk, PhD, Executive Director of the UK based Alliance for Natural Health and Scott Tips, JD, Legal Counsel to the National Health Federation, but he failed," Hammell said. "In our panel discussion, we alerted the Canadian and American people to something Tuck and his allies, including the Natural Solutions Foundation and so called ‘Citizens for Health,’ are trying hard to distract them from: The pending destruction of Canada by the North American Union Dictatorship, and the FDA’s Trilateral Cooperation Charter which is the primary mechanism via which genocidal Codex restrictions are being ushered in to North America. "After my presentation, our booth was swamped by Canadian vitamin consumers eager to learn what they can do to defend their country from its planned destruction and to protect their access to dietary supplements as the NAU is being used as the mechanism to usher in CODEX." Hammell is convinced that the same architects of the European Union (EU) "are attempting to shove the NAU down our throats in North America within the next three years." He insists that Tuck of Friends of Freedom in Canada and Rima Laibow of the Natural Solutions Foundation in the U.S. are effectively helping them do this by distracting vitamin consumers from realizing that globalization, not government agency administrative fiat, is the number one threat to health freedom. Hammell and IAHF are working with health freedom advocacy groups all over the world, including the National Health Federation, the Alliance for Natural Health, the Dr. Rath Health Foundation, and Freedom in Canadian Health Care. "We recognize the fact that, given the myriad of threats coming at us right now, the only chance we have of defending health freedom is to analyze each threat and assign a level of risk to each one in order not to dissipate our energy," Hammell explained. FDA guidance furor Hammell is concerned about what he sees as an orchestrated overreaction to the FDA’s recent announcement that it plans to regulate juices and vitamins as drugs and masseuses’ hands as medical instruments. "For 18 years I have been responding to FDA ‘guidance documents’ and the one discussed in FDA Docket No. 2006D-0480 in the December 2006 Federal Register Notice has been HYPED to the NTH DEGREE by the Natural Solutions Foundation (headed by Laibow) and Tuck. They have managed to con a huge number of people into believing that ‘the sky is falling’ and that ‘unless you flood FDA with complaints by April 30, the world, as we know it, will come to an END!’ "This is simply not true. I have read the entire Guidance Document and it is nothing more than FDA ‘saber rattling,’ mostly over the labeling of dietary supplements." In all humility, The IO was seduced by the "sky-is-falling" hype that erupted around the FDA guidance document. But Hammell reminded us of the layers of intrigue working in concert to control or eliminate over-the-counter access to high-potency vitamins and supplements. We realized that his assessment is correct and that the process is covertly marching forward under the guise of free trade agreements and globalization. According to Hammell, "Any time a supposed health freedom group in Canada or America (such as Friends of Freedom and Natural Solutions Foundation) doesn’t lift a FINGER to defend National Sovereignty given a threat as HUGE as the NAU is, that is a DEAD TIP OFF that they’re not your friends." Hammell added, "Any time a supposed Health Freedom group sues IAHF, (as Tuck is now doing and as Natural Solutions Foundation did to film maker Kevin Miller when he refused to remove the information about CAFTA from "We Become Silent"), you can also be sure they’re not your friends." Truck out The IAHF urges everyone to support the national Truck Out April 23-25: HR 4282 On November 9, 2005, Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) introduced the Health Freedom Protection Act (HR 4282). The short title of the bill states, "[t]o amend the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act concerning foods and dietary supplements, to amend the Federal Trade Commission Act concerning the burden of proof in false advertising cases, and for other purposes." There were 22 co-sponsors of H.R. 4282 when it was introduced. It will end up dying in November of this year if not revived by citizen demand for its passage. For more information about globalization, international free trade agreements and health freedom, contact: IAHF - John Hammell, director 556 Boundary Bay Rd. Point Roberts WA 98281 USA: 800-333-2553 N. America 360-945-0352 The National Health Federation P.O. Box 688 Monrovia, CA 91017 626-357-2181 What North American Union? Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...
Hanging will work too...
What North American Union? Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...
Few Americans have had any significant contact with the Muslim world whatsoever to render any opinion pro or con as to the particulars of the many cultures and peoples who embrace one of the forms of that Religion. So they rely on the great stupid simplifiers like that Serb Idiot. And it is quite common to see among the most arrogant and self absorbed people ever- Americans, even the ones who are "anti war" to blame the victim. Yes- maybe they think one of DC's wars is wrong but not because DC is killing innocent people- but it is wasting money killing despicable savages who are dirt people and not worth the cost of the bullets used to kill them. Such people are one step removed from the ignorant herds of hateful dumb dumbs who support DC's wars of aggrandizement. Some of them are even worse for some of the war supporters actually think DC is trying to "help" the "savages". Anyway- grin and bear it. Practical politics requires that, on occassion, one has to buy evil a drink to do some good.
Well said.
What North American Union? Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...
I mostly agree with your comment except to say if I were king all immigration would stop ASAP. My kids are telling me that foreign professionals are coming here on H1B visas not b/c of a need, but more to surplant American workers at a discount rate.
What North American Union? Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...
We've had a few threads on that. Not good. Do keep us up to speed when you see something.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
It's going on right now. Do you know of the NACC (North American Competitiveness Council)? *********** What North American Union? Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...
Call me judgmental but when I see a Muslim woman dressed in head to toe black, save for an eye slit, I recoil in shock. I suppose some here would intentionally ignore these costume-clad freaks in the name of tolerance, but I'm not able to do so. There is no power strong enough that could make me have "significant contact" with these aliens.
NAU
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
It's all over if we don't stop it/them. They have America in our final throws, save for armed revolution. I don't see anyone leading that charge...yet.
What North American Union? Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...
Do you have the same "recoil" reactions when you see an Indian woman in a sari or a Haddasic Jew wearing a shtreimel or when you see Catholic nuns with their headress "costumes?" Or is it just when you see Muslims in their traditional garb? Just last week I ran into 2 Muslim ladies in traditional garb in a local H&M store - fyi H&M is like a British version of reasonably priced but more fashion forward Gap. In fact, H&M has stores in Dubai and Kuwait. I don't think that traditional grab is a good judge of "backwardness"/alien or as some here have described Muslims using a broad brush stroke - people caught in the 6th century. Personally I view ethnic/religious costumery as being more elegant and less jarring to the eye than our own "made in America- yah-hooo!" pop culture garb ie. slut wear for women and gangster wear for men
Stalin would approve.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Frankly, I'd be more embarrassed of what passes for female role models in America -- Anna Nicole, Britney, Hillary Clinton, Streisand, Lindsey Lohan.
LOL Ironically, back at you in spades. Most of us on this forum don't, and never did, buy into the neocon madness. You're mostly into telling us all about your supercilious, man of the world self .... it seems well beneath you to bother answering points made. Well guess what? We 'merikans don't give a rat's ass, and are only left to wonder who amongst the PC elitist crowd has been filling your head. Take your goofy stance and board a slow boat to Europe. Arm yourself before you get there.
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
So would Washington, Franklin, etc.
Yes on both except the Catholic nun. They've been woven into Americana thanks to Der Bingle and all those Fr. Flannigan, Boys Town movies.
Well guess what? We 'merikans don't give a rat's ass, and are only left to wonder who amongst the PC elitist crowd has been filling your head. Take your goofy stance and board a slow boat to Europe. Arm yourself before you get there. I've responded to your points/your position. You just don't agree with my responses so don't pretend that I have not answered "points made." For the last few messages you have posted your only "point" has been to insult me. Whatever floats your boat I guess. As I said earlier, your comments are self-revealing. Keep it up - your remarks are far more unflattering to you than me.
How 'bout the Somalian refugees? There you get two for the price of one. But, the price is high indeed. In one of my first posts to the thread I stated "strengthen the security of our borders, severely and very selectively limit immigration of Muslims to our county, and strengthen our weakened C.I.A. Just one of several statements here by me and others that you blithely skipped over in your haste to get to your excessively tolerant mantra.
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
So they rely on the great stupid simplifiers like that Serb Idiot. Nice slur .... the Serb idiot PHD has experienced the the rabbit-like expansion of Muslim encroachment close up. But, your very superior view from afar is undoubtedly the correct one. And it is quite common to see among the most arrogant and self absorbed people ever- Americans, even the ones who are "anti war" to blame the victim. Yes- maybe they think one of DC's wars is wrong but not because DC is killing innocent people- but it is wasting money killing despicable savages who are dirt people and not worth the cost of the bullets used to kill them. Such people are one step removed from the ignorant herds of hateful dumb dumbs who support DC's wars of aggrandizement. Some of them are even worse for some of the war supporters actually think DC is trying to "help" the "savages". Interesting. When did you get into mind reading? Anyway- grin and bear it. Practical politics requires that, on occasion, one has to buy evil a drink to do some good. Puzzling. Is controlled, intelligent, and legal immigration one of your "evil drinks"? I must say I was surprised to see you crawl into bed with this shoot-from-the- hip pseudo intellectual.
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
Your above the fray, non-responses fool and impress no one. As you say whatever floats your boat.
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
Good grief. What is more offensive? Some goo blob stupid American woman in a half shirt with her MacDonald's fed fat belly spilling out over her tight jeans that she has no business on earth wearing considering her rump size or some Persian chick dressed in an aqua blue Gandi sack with a head scarf? Granted- both are eye sores- but if I had to pick one to be my neighbor just on appearence . . . well . . . how do you say "can you spare a cup of sugar" in Farsi? Maybe because I live in a city- in which I daily have contact with foreigners that I don't get all tizzed up upon seeing them. I have daily contact with Muslims- at my gym all the attendents are muslims- all nice guys and each one of them speaks three or four languages- their "leader" speaks 5. Granted- they ain't the religious type. ANd they make like 10 bucks an hour. On the other hand- not one of them intends to stay in America and is here just to make money for school or to help out their families. My coffee shop is owned by a Muslim couple- the woman complete with head scarf- and she henpecks her husband everyday- it is rather funny. I have never once felt threatened, ever, by a Muslim. But I have felt threatened by many "native" Americans. From menacing black youth, to skate boarding little white maggot teens who travel in packs, to drunks staggering around looking for fights every thursday to saturday night . . . I have never seen a Muslim squat in a Bank of America ATM entrance and take a dump. Never seen a Muslim beat up another muslim over a sausage at 2AM in the morning. You know- Dr Fleming of Chronicles Magazine once did a speech at a gathering of "Old Right" conservatives against the war in Iraq and after the speech- a young officer just back from Iraq and a self described born again Christian commented to him that compared to Americans- he believed Iraqis were bettered mannered, more moral, and self respecting in general.
Getting back to the subject of the thread, Glenn Beck will be in Indy for a book signing next Saturday. Our RP meetup coordinator asked that we not hector him about 911, UFO's, or the Bilberbergs, but I didn't see anything about kicking him squa' in the nuts. Anyone want to hire David Horowitz for a "speaking engagement"? I'll bring my seven iron. Dear finky FBI agent reading this - it is intended only as humor and in no way constitutes a threat, or even a reasonable facsimile of a threat.
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
Sure....you’d change your mind if Azarnoosh's goat freed itself and mounted your leftist New England rump one cold, stormy evening. Or maybe you wouldn’t…..
Take your sand wedge for maximum effect. Open your stance a bit, eyes on the ball(s), full take-a-way, then a nice release at impact, and follow-through. Gelded in one smooth stroke.
You should see the looks I get when I walk into a deli decked out in full SS garb. Just kidding, I would never do that.
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
LOL, what was I thinking?
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
Yes, it is. As his "experience" with Albanians extrapolated to "Islam" in general is a great big stupid simplification- one that is quite rampant on the reich wing. I must say I was surprised to see you crawl into bed with this shoot-from- the- hip pseudo intellectual. That would be the stupid simplifying Serb?
I LOVE the word hector when used as a verb. Thank-you. Did u catch Horowitz on Beck's show last week? Back had no clue the guy was raised a communist by his parents (yes folks, in NYC there was/is an active communist party). He fawned all over him since Horowitz is all war all the time.
No, they just kill their daughters for getting raped. I hate all this Muslim bashing too, to be honest, but I think multiculturalism is the most moronic bit of social engineering to come along in my lifetime. The stupidity is compounded when extended to cultures with no reciprocity. How well do you think I'd fare walking around Mecca with my shoulder length hair and AC/DC "Highway to Hell" t-shirt?
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
Saw it on the 'net afterward. Horowitz is a steaming pile of red-diaper goo.
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
Yeah- that is what they do. All of them all over the muslim world- every woman raped is killed by their family. Are you a fucking idiot? I would wager that outside western imposed war zones in the Muslim world- fewer women are murderd in all of "islam" yearly than are murdered in the United States. You know- I should start a news service. One dedicated to highlighting every fucked up weird ass crime committed by "Christians" and just do that all day long- post story after story of freak Christian cults having sex with 10 year old child brides and murdering pastors, and child molesting priests, and reverends who go on weekend long drug fueled sex sessions with gay prostitutes, of priests who helped committ genocide in Rwanda, or Christian Serb rape gangs- no matter where- no matter how different the motivations, circumstances, or conditions- just reduce all that evil down- to the fact that they are Christains. Like the neocons and Israel firsters do to Muslims all the time- like the "They kill daughters line" you just spewed.
Yawn. It is so funny how you stoop to the neocon and reich winger charge of "leftism" just as if you were only a step removed from them . . . oh right- you are.
I didn't say it was common, I was just countering your nonsense about how every culture is perfect except ours. If you bothered to continue reading my post you would have seen that I'm sick of the muslim bashing myself, and only said it to show how silly you are.
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
His stance is squarely based upon the Koran and ME history. Your "reich" type slurs continue. Beheadings, female abuse, bomb strapping mad folk and leadership of nations based on on an individuals' memorization of the Koran and Hadith require little in the way of "extrapolation". Muslim apologists .... now there's a strain.
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
Pat Robertson supports Rudy Julie Annie. Ted Haggard enjoys smoking meth with gay prostitutes. Thus, all Christians must be meth smoking gays who support Julie Annie.
Of course I never said every culture is perfect but ours. But it does indeed seem to be the particular practice of Americans to take the worst aspects of foreign cultures and magnify them to the point that that is all they all- pure evil. While at the same time Americans get insane with rage if you dare criticize their culture in any way. You want to know what is pathetic? It is Americans who are so delusional that they see a few humble muslim women in their head scarves as more of a threat to them than the legions of swaggering illeterate man apes with vocabularies that don't surpass 2000 words that infest this country- home grown. I don't worry about Habib and Habibiteetee. They don't concern my. They are not the ones who are responsible for my liberty and wealth being drained away. Who is? Stupid infantalized cowardly "America" that is who is responsible.
The European experiences (including Britain) along with the 19 arabs on 9/11, along with beheadings by children appear to have come in one ear and gone out the other. No big thing considering the vacuum in between.
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
Thanks for proving my point. We are done- I don't truck with dopes. Go to back to El Pee and pee your pants over there with the rest of the Muslim hate mongers.
Yes- thank you for pointing out that debate winning point that Muslims are human.
If you call me a fucking idiot I tend to get a little pissy - go figure. I personally don't give a rats how muslims dress or how they behave unless it affects me directly. What does piss me off is this constant "Celebrate Multicultural Diversity" social engineering coming from the cultural elites. Many people lie the culture they were raised in, as attested to by Muslims continuing to wear their tradition garb after emigrating to the west. To me, "Promoting Cultural Diversity" is just a PC way of saying "There are too many damned white people, and we aim to change that".
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
Americans are human beings and subject to indoctrination the same as any other human on earth. It's nothing that rational leadership over a substantial amount of time won't cure. Frustrated badmouthing of fellow citizens and promotion of Balkanization is not the answer.
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
I think Final Authority is MadIvan. I say that because they both like to use the term pigphucker to describe those who are against the war.
How specifically have you been forced to "Celebrate Multi-whatever diversity"? Huh? Now if you are talking about legal nonesense stopping a town from putting up a creche on the commons on Christmas- I am all with you. That is nonesense. But that aint't the fault of some Muslim fresh off the boat. And the Muslims the ACLU does get to launch some suit are just doing what all Americans are encouraged to do- play the victim. It ain't the Muslims who are to blame for that either. They are being used for the larger purpose of eroding community and locality and replacing civil society with just . . . the federal government. Instead of allowing people to work out and accomodate their differences on their own (like ethnic groups in this country had to do 50 years ago)- the Federal Governments demands it be the arbitraitor. It insinuates itself between groups as the judge and jury. And the result is what you express . . . resentment and distrust. And the effect of the Federal government promoting "diversity" is actually to promote balkinization (which is the goal so they can have jobs forever in the "diversity field.") The point is- you have the wrong bad guy. It isn't Ali and Apu who are to blame. It is the government that seeks to be the middle man between us that is to blame.
Never denied it. But that does not make them candidates for forced conversion to the "democratic" wet dream of a half-witted born-again drunk. Leave them alone ...... a few centuries or so of benign neglect by the all- knowing western powers and we might be surprised by what God has wrought. But pretending that they are not presently a scary bunch of ill-educated victims with seriously medieval doctrines is beyond madness, and thinking they can make that leap by a pollyannish open door policy is grand delusion.
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
You are saying damned near the same thing I did, what's the problem? As far as your first question, there are constant calls from mass media, academia, and government to "celebrate diversity". A couple months ago one of our city council members was yammering on public access TV about how my neighborhood needed to be more diverse, and they planned on giving tax credits for minority families to move here. They must have meant Mexicans, because this neighborhood is already about 40% black. I think what he was really wanting wanting was removal of blacks from some of the neighborhoods downtown so his rich white buddies could have a shorter drive to work and not be forced to live around "those horrible negroes". If he wants more "diversity", he's always free to move his sorry ass to The Meadows.
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
I found this photo today at truthaction.org http://truthaction.org/ss/popup.php? src=albums/111107/hr/111107LA-10.jpg&w=800&h=532&title=111107LA-10.jpg
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him" And you remain a pompous Boston fag, one minority mugging away from reality. May the fleas from Sahib’s camel infest your armpits and short curly ones.
And then, when the race riot erupts between blacks and Mexicans as a result of the resentment and distrust these social engineering schemes produced- that same talking head politicain or bureaucrat will come on teevee (with no one pointing at him as the blame at all) and tell us how we need more of the same race based solutions - like "hate crime" laws.
You came so close there, but PC kept you from hitting the bull's eye.
If you're talking short term, of course we should honor our agreements. I don't think it would take 10 years to pump enough oil down from Prudhoe bay and drill in the Everglades. That could be done in months. A multi-pronged investment in becoming self-sufficient and independent of ME oil within the next 10 years is the way to go in my opinion. I agree. I'm disappointed in the Bush administration's promise to research fuel cell technologies. They've been so preoccupied with this high-tech war that they've been unable to deliver on those commitments.
I'm not. While I tend to agree with Ron Paul that federal attention to religion and race are collectivist, I also think it is collectivist to engage in blatant social engineering by meshing new cultures into ours without respite. Given several generations, the cultures we've assembled here in America today starting around the time of WW1 and increasing after the 1965 Immigration Act (which went hand in hand with the Civil Rights Act) would assimilate. Right now I think we're at the limits of what this 100 year laboratory experiment can sustain. Crime statistics and the increasing loss of English as our exclusive language should be indicators of this. The ruling elite thinks otherwise, and I see that you do, too. I'm just not in agreement here. I speak out against it when asked. Once here, all human beings are my brothers and sisters. Before inviting them, I'd like to set some strict limits. It takes measurable time and financial resources to integrate newcomers. We have encountered limits and we're exceeding them now. In the interest of the common good, and the success of those already here, it's time to stop most immigration for a while. Ron Paul does not agree with me here, and I still support him for President. In all of this, the common enemy is tyrannical powers held by government in gross violation of our Constitution. But failure to close our borders and the wholesale import of third world peoples into our society are reflections of that loss of representation. We are and will be paying more and more for this.
Kind of like Kieth Olbermann. adding: PC or something else. adding more: Burkeman1 bozo'ed me about 2 years ago on this forum because I had the audacity to MENTION the Protocols of Zion. I reciprocated and it remains to this day..
Register to vote for Ron Paul NOW.
For those that equate Rabbis to Imams .... and other such drollery My next to last word on the matter
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
Last word, the accompanying editorial: Article published Tuesday, November 20, 2007 Your petro-dollars at work STRAIGHT from the news pages, here’s a case of Middle Eastern justice that ought to be pondered by Americans as they fill up their cars with gasoline made from Saudi Arabian oil. After being raped about 18 months ago, a Saudi woman was sentenced to 90 lashes for having been sitting in a car with an unrelated man when she was kidnapped and assaulted. When the woman’s lawyer appealed and complained publicly about the severity of the sentence, the court increased the penalty to 200 lashes. And added six months in jail. That’s right. Under the Saudi legal code, based on a strict version of Islamic law known as Wahhabism, female victims of crime are punished along with the real offenders, in this case a band of seven men. This woman’s crime, although we are loathe to dignify use of that word, was meeting privately with a man who was not her husband or a family member. Her lawyer’s offense was pointing out the injustice, which the court then turned against the victim by increasing her punishment. We shouldn’t have to point out — but we will anyway — that the raw barbarism and misogyny represented in this case are abhorrent to and incompatible with virtually every precept of modern Western thought and ideals, especially when masquerading as a foundation for law that governs the everyday life of human beings. The fact that the United States, which gets at least 15 percent of its oil from Saudi Arabia, indirectly subsidizes and perpetuates these cruel practices under the repressive Saudi government only makes them more repugnant. The woman in question was 19 when she was raped, reportedly by a gang of men, who kidnapped her from a car where she was talking to a former boyfriend about return of some photographs. She and the ex-boyfriend, who also was sexually assaulted, originally were sentenced to 90 lashes each, harsh even by the standards of Saudi courts, which legal sources say typically prescribe 60 to 80 lashes for adultery. But adultery was not alleged. As for the attackers, the New York Times reported that their sentences ranged from ten months to five years and 80 to 1,000 lashes. Their prison terms also were lengthened after the case went public. Not surprisingly, further public comment on the case has been muted inside Saudi Arabia. The tribal kingdom does not pretend to be a democracy and the medieval treatment of women in its society is well known. But we’d be remiss if we failed to point out that the leaders of a nation with a system of justice that countenances such cruel and unusual punishments should not be surprised when westerners categorize them as uncivilized and culturally backward. The American people, meanwhile, are caught between distaste for anti-democratic governments abroad and their own nation’s shameful reliance on imported oil, much of it from the Middle East, for transportation. Perhaps such policy failures would be more meaningful if motorists, the next time they fill up their gas tank, would envision a woman barely in her 20s facing 200 lashes for no crime at all. That’s the way American petro-dollars are being put to work in some of the darker corners of the world.
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
When the non-profits get finished with this country, we're going to look just as savage.
You think anytime there's blacks or mexicans there's gonna be a riot? And even if it were so, which it isn't, why would I want to live in a neighborhood subject to such tension?
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
iconoclast: For those that equate Rabbis to Imams .... and other such drollery I don't appreciate your telling lies about what I have said. The above quote of mine followed by your "interpretation" of what I stated are miles apart. What is it that you do not understand about what I stated? Fact #1: Sharia law regarding civil family disputes was practised in Canada informally for a decade or more. There was no stoning of women in the course of those years. Fact #2: A Muslim organisation and its lawyer wanted Sharia law to be formally recognized for its use in family legal arbitration matters. Fact #3: Fyi, Ontario's Arbitration Act permited religious groups to settle family matters. Fact #4: B'nai Brith Canada endorsed the idea and submitted an amicus brief in that regard to the provincial government. "We have tried to reduce the hype around the proposal to implement sharia law tribunals in Ontario. Sharia-based courts will not bring the Taliban to Canada," said John Syrtash, a family lawyer with B'nai Brith...The Canadian Jewish Congress says it is neither favours nor opposes sharia-based tribunals." Thursday, September 9, 2004 - Page A8 The Globe and Mail "B'nai Brith recommends sharia-based tribunals" by Maria Jiminez Conclusion: Therefore, if you want to have a hissy fit with the person or organization that "puts Rabbis at the same level as Imams," then take your fight to the B'nai Brith of Canada, sir, and to John Syrtash who was B'nai Brith's legal representative at the time the discussion was underway. Furthermore you can contact the CJC and mutter at them for remaining neutral in the face of such "evil" as Sharia law. P.S. You might want to look up Beit Den to see how progressive and women- friendly it is. Hint - the Jewish court has 3 MALES adjudicating civil legal matters relating to divorce and child custody.
That’s the way American petro-dollars are being put to work in some of the darker corners of the world. And should we all begin fueling our cars with tsk, tsk, tsk instead of gasoline? No one - including the opinion editor or the likes of you - have ever been in the least way concerned about Saudi Arabian women until now. Surely the Saudis were known to be authoritarian chauvanistic punks before today's incident, yes? And you and your fellow travellers went along all these years without shedding narry a tear for those pooooor down-trodden Saudi women, yes? Sorry but your "concern" about Sharia law in Saudi Arabia is approx. 50 years too late and not heartfelt whatsoever.
This red herring reminds me of the crap we were fed about babies having their heads crushed by Iraqis in Kuwait ... (all of a sudden we're supposed to be enraged by an incident that by itself pales by comparison to what we're doing to others).
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
It's not a red herring to be concerned with immigration from such countries. We're Balkanizing America.
My reference was to the sharia law and 200 lashes for the rape victim ... that was being discussed on every talk radio program yesterday.
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
I'm not much for talk radio, although I sometimes hear a few minutes of it no more than 2-3 days a week. I missed that. In any case, Canada has adopted a system allowing Sharia to arbitrate certain legal disputes for Muslim communities. Some Islamics living here have said we should adopt it completely. The more of these third world people we immigrate into the USA, the more likely they will begin influencing our social structures. I think it's already gone way too far. I blame the NeoCons for that.
I am in complete agreement with you. I don't know that we can ascribe guilt to any one group even though at the moment the neo-cons seem to have much influence in the current administration ... for the most part they're all (D.C. Politicos) selling us and the country out.
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
The non-profit foundations have been pushing multi-culturalism very effectively, especially through education and public media. Also, I've never seen so many head scarves and mosques since before 2000. There's been an explosion of Islam in this country since George W. Bush took office.
After Gulf War I many (3500-4000) Iraqi Red Guard were allowed (assisted) in moving to America by George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton. It's my opinion that these people have been used in some instances as contract agents of a rogue element of the CIA under Bush.
If 1000 people formed a corporation, let's call it FORD, could they make us buy a PINTO ? How is it then that a similar group could form a STATE and force us to buy their bullshit ?
Well, unless you first direct your concerns to the women of this nation and their affection for abortion, we need immigration to replace ourselves. Right now - were it not for the Hispanics who are having multiple babies aplenty - we would be in the same dying on the vine boat as Europe and Russia. However as I have stated before I think we should repeal that nonsensical family re-unification immigration policy and go back to immigration to support economic needs of our nation of the time. And you know, "such" Muslim countries often have their own intelligensia - at least before we have them snuffed by the DOD in a war for lies. I don't think we should ignore our nation's immigration needs for some broadbrush fear about Islamofascism. Currently I have 2 physicians who are Muslims and they are very impressive. One is a Lebanese Sunni and the other is an Iranian Shia. Their wives work as well - they are not lashed to poles in the house. One is an artist and the other is a nurse. Btw, most Lebanese are tri-lingual - Arabic, English, and French. Can you say the same about our American schooled dumdums who can barely master English? Did you know that Iran has universities, institutes of technology, as well as med schools? And that in Iran you actually need to take a 1 year college prep year after earning a high school diploma and then sit for and pass a university entrance exam before being admitted to any of the higher education fields. Unlike us who push every jack ass to attend college thus lowering the value of our college degrees, Iran actually has their colleges educate only people who can demonstrated scholastic apptitude. The National Organization for Development of Exceptional Talents (NODET), also known as SAMPAD maintains Middle and High Schools in Iran - for gifted children. Just because Iran is Muslim one should not assume it is anti-intellectual or 6th century barbaric. My point in all of this is that Muslim college graduates are not "slur" as another poster opined and in fact Muslim college graduates may be better schooled and skilled than our own AA punks whom we promote from K to PhD's through our "no fail" educational programs. Yes, our government is balkanizing new immigrants, perhaps purposely so. Separateness is the antithesis of unity. Personally I don't care if new immigrants wear scarves on their head or saris as long as they speak English in public places and they are making contibutions ( as opposed to being taxpayer burdens) to this nation's development and competitiveness on the world's stage.
Bingo, noone, you win the prize! After all these years of doing business with the House of Saaa-ooo-ddd as well as Turkey Kuwait etc - why is it, buckeye, that suddenly we hear so much on MSM and talk shows about the perils of sharia law and how poor Muslim women are being treated? Let me enhance the clue that noone gave you earlier - I-R-A-N. The demonization of Muslims is being racheted up bigtime recently because the American sheeple are tired of ME wars for lies. So the neocons need to whip up fury and fear and since they have spent most of their Clean Break wad on Iraq and Syria - none of which has been too successful ( understatement) - what war baiting card do the neoziocons have left but ye old Sharia law/barbaric Muslims. Be my guest if you want to stay awake at night worrying about President Ahmadinejad or the Saudi Princes coming to your home at night and outfitting your loved ones in burkas and giving them 200 lashes for fun sport - but as for me, I will sleep soundly and not worry about "Islamofacism" taking over our country. I'm more worried about neo-zio-con-lib-ism taking our our country. And frankly I think my fears are more realistic.
You really should spend more time reading history. We can learn much about the present by knowing what was a successful solution to similar problems in the past. Of course Anaximenes rebutted: Both are true looked at in the right way. History repeats, but never are the players exactly the same or the situations absolutely identical. There is a lot in your post I could comment on but I'll restrict it to just the points I find most important at the moment. Of course the question is do we want a continually expanding population? While I don't support the eugenics crowd and their desire to kill off large segments of the population to fit their psychotic world view I don't see a natural reduction an evil. One of the things which inspired innovation in the 13 Colonies was insufficient labor and so innovation and invention was the response. It expanded our country's productivity rapidly and made more efficient use of available labor. Slave societies don't innovate. In the long run the decay and decline. Were it not for the influx of illegal immigrants then invention and innovation would be the order of the day. What you are suggesting, indirectly, in your argument is that a slave society is superior to a free society. I would hope that is not your intent. While I am an advocate of learning more than one language multi-lingualism is not relevant to our current situation. The Balkanization we are experiencing is not just because of language but because of the invasion of a foreign culture. Lebanon, despite religious differences, is one cultural group with common ground exceeding those religious and tribal differences. The invasion from south of the border is disrupting OUR culture of liberty by injecting large numbers of people who come from a culture in which subservience to a "strong-man" is the accepted norm rather than our tradition of individual liberty and a government subservient to the people. The intentional sabotage of education in America is resulting mis-educated and undereducated students. It is not that they are stupid, although they behave that way, but that the school system has been intentionally dumbed down. See Charlotte Iserbyt's book The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America. There is no perhaps about it. This balkinization is a large scale manipulation to keep us apart and from achieving a common ground and agreement. It is as old as the dictum: "Divide and conquer". By keeping us at each others throats over superficial difference, by creating an inability to communicate common concerns and exacerbating the gulf created by different languages, by encouraging the existence of isolated enclaves, it makes US more vulnerable. Our greatest strength is meeting upon the common ground of liberty which all good men, and women, cherish. One of our great strengths is that we that we have had is a common language which facilitates communication. As well English, for all its faults of grammar and exceptions, is the largest and most expressive human language in common and regular use. I recall a French commentator lamenting that we have synonyms for everything in multiples. The ability to speak and COMMUNICATE in a common tongue cannot have its importance overstated.
"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.
b. Of course the question is do we want a continually expanding population? c. While I am an advocate of learning more than one language multi-lingualism is not relevant to our current situation. The Balkanization we are experiencing is not just because of language but because of the invasion of a foreign culture. Lebanon, despite religious differences, is one cultural group with common ground exceeding those religious and tribal differences. The invasion from south of the border is disrupting OUR culture of liberty by injecting large numbers of people who come from a culture in which subservience to a "strong-man" is the accepted norm rather than our tradition of individual liberty and a government subservient to the people. d. The intentional sabotage of education in America is resulting mis-educated and undereducated students. It is not that they are stupid, although they behave that way, but that the school system has been intentionally dumbed down. e. The ability to speak and COMMUNICATE in a common tongue cannot have its importance overstated. a. I would suggest a retrospective/historical review of my posts here relating to immigration - both legal and illegal - so history could teach you what my position is. b. I never suggested ever expanding immigration policies. In fact I have suggested that immigration policies should relate to the needs of our nation at the time. I have specifically stated that the 1965 family reunification "reform" immigration policies should be over turned and that we should return to previous policies that were based on the nation's economic needs. c. My quote about Lebanese knowledge of 3 languages was in response to posters who opined earlier on this thread that Muslim cultures were caught in 6th century barbarism and that they should be shut out from our shores so they could die in their "oil and vomit" - a broad brush stroke of racism and bigtory was used on this thread to suggest that Muslims were a dark and eeevil and primitive force on our oh-so refined and hi-brow American culture. My responses to these arrogant and close-minded ( IMHO) remarks was to point out that Muslims as a whole should not be pigeon-holed - that I personally knew of 2 MD's representing Arab and Iranian cultures and that these men were very smart and sophisticated ( being fluent in 3 languages is usually a mark of good education) and that Muslims can actually be contributing members of Western society. I've always spoken out against the "invasion" from the South of unskilled labor who come here holus bolus and who are La Raza's foot soldiers to claim southern states for Greater Azetlan. You have no disagreement from me in that regard. In fact, even on this thread I've remarked that our American "culture" is far more threatened by masses of illegal Hispanics who care not to assimilate - ever- than the paltry numbers of Muslim immigrants ( some posters refer to them as Islamofascists) who have come to America, in the main legally. d. The intentional dumbing down of education stateside is a well known fact. But if education were not dumbed down and AA were not implemented in America how would we attain equitable representation of certain ethnicities and genders in professional fields like medicine, law, engineering? This nation as a whole has accepted social engineering instead of meritocracy - education is but one agent of this venture - I don't think you can blame educators alone for the final results we see in our malls representing 'Merikan culture. ie. we have quite a few dumb bunnies/stupidos here but we refuse to accept that fact e. I don't disagree with you at all. One of the best things the British left with their former colonies was the British education system and the opportunity for their colonies to learn to speak communicate in English. In fact I've said previously that I don't care if immigrants wear saris or scarves but if they speak English in public and bring skills to help America's future development and competitiveness, from my point of view they are welcome additions here. You can't deny that 40 Million abortions has led to this frenzied pro- immigration stance of our politicians. We do need to replace ourselves if for nothing else but to pay for the benefits/entitlements promised to older age groups. But my point is that we do so with immigrants who have special skills that our country needs at any given time and that Muslims should not be automatically shut out of the potential immigration pool for irrational fears about Islamofascism taking over our nation.
Never mind that. What about the embarassment of having a President who hasn't mastered the English language?
My only problem is with the adherents of the pseudo-religion dba "Islam" want to murder people instead of just taking on the governments they say they have disagreements with... I openly admit that I don't like the NeoCon OWMs, I don't like the World Commie OWMs nor do I like the Vatican OWMs, the Jesuit OWMs, the Hebrew OWMs or the Mohamedan OWMs... My desire is that those Americans involved in treason turn from their ways.
What North American Union? Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...
At Thanksgiving, I always think of this quote. "You're working hard to put food on your family." -Presidential candidate George W. Bush, Nashua, N.H., Jan. 27, 2000 --------------------------------------------------- Here are a few new ones. "We're going to -- we'll be sending a person on the ground there pretty soon to help implement the malaria initiative, and that initiative will mean spreading nets and insecticides throughout the country so that we can see a reduction in death of young children that -- a death that we can cure." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 18, 2007 "All I can tell you is when the governor calls, I answer his phone." --George W. Bush, San Diego, Calif., Oct. 25, 2007 "My hearts are with the Jeffcoats right now, that's what I'm thinking." -- George W. Bush, after meeting with California wildfire victims Kendra and Jay Jeffcoat, San Diego, Calif., Oct. 25, 2007 "I fully understand those who say you can't win this thing militarily. That's exactly what the United States military says, that you can't win this military." --George W. Bush, on the need for political progress in Iraq, Washington, D.C., Oct. 17, 2007
You must be registered with the correct party to vote for Ron Paul in states with CLOSED PRIMARIES. Click Primarily Paul and scroll down to the State by State chart. This is an important point. It should be our decision, especially the decision of our women, as to how many children they wish to have from one generation to the next. Our strength should rest on freedom, not fear. The actual fear of raising children is due mostly to economic uncertainty caused by real economic decline since the 1950s. What couple can afford to raise a family on one income these days? The intentional sabotage of education in America is resulting mis-educated and undereducated students. Indeed. FOH and I were discussing Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt's activism, including her book Back to basics or--Skinnerian international curriculum? (A must-download!) If we need Arab immigration to renew America's intellectual strength, we might as well give up now. I maintain that it is political correctness that has us convinced that we are becoming weak. Who has taught us this political correctness? That's another topic, but without it, we would be even less tolerant of Arab immigration. There is no perhaps about it. This balkinization is a large scale manipulation to keep us apart and from achieving a common ground and agreement. Hear hear.
Well that's not going to be a successful happening as long as our gov't meddles in Third World affairs and props up "OUR" thug-guy/gal with foreign aid $ that goes directly toward building the military might of thugocracies. Look at what has happened in Pakistan recently - rebellious Pakistani lawyers were imprisoned by Mushie. And Bhutto given the opportunity to be the next leader of Pakistan will be no less autocratic than Mushie, but she will refrain from wearing a military uniform. Do you think nationalist Egyptians would have a chance against Mubarrek's military if they tried to make Egypt a better nation? Look what happened to Labanon - just as it was starting to get its sh*t together after the devastation of 18 years of Israeli brutal occupation - lo and behold, in 2006 Israel hauls off and unloads megatons of bombs and ordinances on Lenanon to set it back 20 years. Look at Iran - it had elected a series of reformers to government and then by gosh, by golly just as things were looking up for Iran, our military invades Iraq for no reason, sets that nation back 50 years showing its neighbor, Iran, how great "democracy" is and then our yappsterinchief has the nerve to advise Iranians to vote for "freedom and liberty" like what Iraq has. We know what happened thereafter - the reformers were defeated and in their place hardliners were elected. And to this day our gov't arms Kurdish trouble makers ( some nations label them terrorists) in Iran to destabilize it further. If we don't screw Muslim nations by propping up thugs we screw them with military attack or political hijinx. Apart from the 19 9/11 Muslims - who the Israelis and the FBI and CIA were "aware" ( at minimum) were up to no good prior to the event - how many Muslims immigrants here want to "murder people" randomly? How many Muslims "over there" in their native lands would have attacked Westerners if the West ( primarily the USA and UK and Israel) had not messed with their nation and peoples first? I see the election of Dr. Ron Paul as a long awaited/needed positive force for our nation and peoples as well as for nations and peoples around the world.
On that we are in TOTAL agreement. Happy Thanksgiving my friend...
What North American Union? Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...
FOH: On that we are in TOTAL agreement. Happy Thanksgiving my friend... And my good wishes for a Happy Thanksgiving go back to you. Postscript: I've been meaning to extend my sincere welcome to you all for joining 4um. Though I may not always agree with what you say, please try to remember that though I may engage you in spirited debates, I never hold a grudge and my "scrappiness" is never meant to be malicious or hurtful.
Happy Hunting!
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
I much prefer an environment like this where we can share views. Likewise, happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.
I much prefer an environment like this where we can share views. Likewise, happy Thanksgiving to you and yours. There is nothing wrong with spirited debate, and it may even at times become heated - perhaps even rancorous, but like Scrapper I do not hold grudges against those with whom I disagree or those who disagree with me. We learn and grow by being forced into confrontation with new thoughts, opinions, and viewpoints. However, I will defend my points vigorously without rancour. :-) And "How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.
We have much to be thankful for my friend...HTG to you and rich blessings to you all!
What North American Union? Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...
The debate has been excellent on this thread. Lots of brilliance. ;)
Thank you. And Amen.
"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.
I wish I hadn't lost my "Blush Smiley" when my other Hard Drive crashed. So, head bowed toward ground nervously kicking the dust with my boot: "Aw shucks ma'am twarn't nuthin'."
"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.
pink becomes you, OI. ;)
That's because I'm "an Autumn". :-)
"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.
I probably have one. I'll send it to you when I find it.
Sorry for the tardy reply, but thank you. Thankfully I've still got all those other "cool" ones you sent via PM.
"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.
I've added to my archive too. I have 222 in my photobucket and much more on my hard drive. I've taken a couple from this site.
Thank you. Bookmarked for later strip mining.
"How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.
Amen and Happy Thanksgiving.
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
Same here scrapper, I have a very, very large family and so things get a bit too heated there from time to time. I'm a combative Irishman and my temper erupts from time to time, for which no amount of prayer seems to help. I'm posting here on Thanksgiving afternoon until my wife, the nurse, gets off work. Then we'll join the rest of the family. And, and "discussion" there could arise but the love will prevail, as here.
Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?
Dear God.
#2. To: lodwick (#1)
#3. To: robin (#0)
PROPAGANDA FROM THE GLEN BECK SHOW - RON PAUL SUPPORTERS ARE LINKED WITH ISLAMO FASCISTS - SUGGESTIONS MADE TO USE US TROOPS AGAINST RON PAUL SUPPORTERS IN US!
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#4. To: robin (#0)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#5. To: angle. all (#2)
#6. To: lodwick (#5)
#7. To: lodwick (#1)
PROPAGANDA FROM THE GLEN BECK SHOW - RON PAUL SUPPORTERS ARE LINKED WITH ISLAMO FASCISTS - SUGGESTIONS MADE TO USE US TROOPS AGAINST RON PAUL SUPPORTERS IN US! OUTRAGEOUS!!!!! PEOPLE THIS IS PURE PROPAGANDA!
#8. To: FormerLurker (#4)
I think we should call the radio stations he airs from and complain.
#9. To: robin (#7)
SUGGESTIONS MADE TO USE US TROOPS AGAINST RON PAUL SUPPORTERS IN US!
#10. To: aristeides (#9)
Since so many members of the U.S. military have contributed money to Ron Paul's campaign, I wonder which way the U.S. troops would point their guns if they received such orders.
#11. To: robin (#0)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#12. To: FOH, robin, Peppa (#11)
#13. To: buckeye (#12)
www.ronpaul2008.com
Tea Party
#14. To: Peppa (#13)
#15. To: buckeye (#14)
(Edited)
It's a false dichotomy to argue that people who support Ron Paul are unaware of the threat Islamic extremism poses to the west. I see several in Horowitz's comments. Supporting an America-first candidate may be the only way we can ever succeed in ending aid to Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Egypt. Likewise, we've never had such a pro-Islamic government since Bush took office.
www.ronpaul2008.com
Tea Party
#16. To: robin (#0)
(Edited)
GLEN BECK: RON PAUL SUPPORTERS ISLAMO-FASCISTS
#17. To: All (#16)
I've sent this link to my little brother. He's an E-8 in the Air Force and just celebrated his 20th year of service while serving on his third tour in Iraq. He's a big Ron Paul supporter, as are many of the airmen serving under him. I'm sure he and his buddies will be surprised to know that he is now considered an islamo-fascist supporter. Especially coming from a "I sup[port the troops" uber-patriot such as Glen Beck
#18. To: Hayek Fan (#16)
What else would you expect from Glenn Beck though? He's a long time alcoholic and drug abuser.
#19. To: Peppa (#15)
(Edited)
You know, the new media seems to be saying that we (America) are supporting both sides of everything.
#20. To: buckeye (#12)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#21. To: FOH (#20)
#22. To: buckeye (#21)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#23. To: robin (#0)
#24. To: PercyDovetonsils, FOH (#23)
I bet he doesn't know the candidate that has received the most contributions from military members is Ron Paul.
#25. To: FOH (#22)
Someday you'll be proud of me buck...heheheh
#26. To: scrapper2 (#19)
Saudi Arabia we protect ( I don't think we give SA foreign aid) mainly for oil industry's benefit.
#27. To: buckeye, PercyDovetonsils (#24)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#28. To: buckeye (#25)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#29. To: Hayek Fan (#17)
Never mind. I forgot about the attitude towards the military here. My bad.
#30. To: Dakmar, FOH (#26)
We prop up the Saudi monarchy by providing them with all the toys a modern police state could wish for.
#31. To: buckeye (#30)
"I summon my blue-eyed slaves anytime it pleases me. I command the Americans to send me their bravest soldiers to die for me. Anytime I clap my hands a stupid genie called the American ambassador appears to do my bidding. When the Americans die in my service their bodies are frozen in metal boxes by the US Embassy and American airplanes carry them away, as if they never existed. Truly, America is my favorite slave." - King Fahd Bin Abdul-Aziz, Jeddeh 1993
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#32. To: FOH (#31)
#33. To: FOH (#31)
When the Americans die in my service their bodies are frozen in metal boxes by the US Embassy and American airplanes carry them away, as if they never existed.
#34. To: buckeye (#32)
(Edited)
I want the Saudis out of our national affairs.
#35. To: Hayek Fan, FOH, FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, farmfriend, all (#16)
What else would you expect from Glenn Beck though? He's a long time alcoholic and drug abuser.
#36. To: Original_Intent (#35)
#37. To: TwentyTwelve (#36)
#38. To: TwentyTwelve (#36)
#39. To: Dakmar (#26)
(Edited)
We prop up the Saudi monarchy by providing them with all the toys a modern police state could wish for.
#40. To: robin (#0)
#41. To: robin (#0)
#42. To: robin (#7)
#43. To: Peppa (#13)
I wonder if David Horositz hangs out in the MN airport bathroom with Senator Widestance?
#44. To: robin (#0)
#45. To: FOH (#27)
(Edited)
Glenn sucked me in a bit, I admit.
#46. To: robin (#7)
David Horowitz is full of shit. Ron Paul did not choose Guy Fawkes, his supporters did.
#47. To: scrapper2 (#34)
(Edited)
Please tell me examples of the Saudis in our national affairs.
I could go on but this should illustrate some of the influences the Saudis have had on the United States over the years. Since the allies helped establish its borders after WWI, the Saudis have had a very close relationship with Americans.
The Saudi foreign minister said Saudi Arabia is a peaceful country in an area of tremendous threat and upheaval. “So it is not strange that it is trying to acquire a posture of defense that will protect the interests and safety of the people of Saudi Arabia.” — Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al Faysal at a press conference in 2007 announcing a large portion of $20 billion in sales to the region.
#48. To: buckeye (#47)
#49. To: FOH (#27)
#50. To: noone222, Dakmar, buckeye, Jethro Tull, Red Jones, aristeides, lodwick, Artisan, Zipporah, christine, Peppa, FOH, FormerLurker, kiki, scrapper2, MUDDOG, thoughtomator, All (#44)
(Edited)
A woman with a son in Iraq was there (she said all the Marines know, they know everything she kept saying). She would step off the curb and into the street, just like she was on the front line.
Another protester drove up from San Diego because, "It isn't everyday you have a war criminal in your backyard".
The protesters were an ordinary looking crowd, nothing peculiar about them. I'll bet Beck's listeners are a strange lot though.
#51. To: robin, all (#50)
#52. To: Jethro Tull (#51)
#53. To: Jethro Tull (#51)
I can't recall a political strategy like this before; the complete and total alienation of a voting bloc. It's almost as if THEY want us marginalized and clustered all together. Thank goodness I'm not conspiratorial.
#54. To: robin (#50)
...I was at a protest yesterday for this event:
#55. To: buckeye (#54)
#56. To: robin (#55)
#57. To: robin (#53)
George Bush is a uniter.
#58. To: lodwick, Jethro Tull (#57)
#59. To: buckeye (#56)
#60. To: robin (#59)
#61. To: buckeye (#60)
#62. To: robin (#61)
#63. To: buckeye (#62)
Henry David Thoreau.
#64. To: buckeye (#62)
#65. To: robin. buckeye (#64)
#66. To: Dakmar (#26)
#67. To: Burkeman1 (#41)
The notion that anyone in this country is an "Islamofascist" is ridiculous on its face and will only be bought by the 30 percenters who are hopeless idiots anyway.
#68. To: buckeye (#47)
Our military strategy in the Mideast continually benefits the Saudis. Consider the war in Kuwait, and the Iraq war now. Consider our support of Sunnis during the Iran-Iraq war. We provide them with high-tech military hardware. Quote: The Saudi foreign minister said Saudi Arabia is a peaceful country in an area of tremendous threat and upheaval. “So it is not strange that it is trying to acquire a posture of defense that will protect the interests and safety of the people of Saudi Arabia.” — Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al Faysal at a press conference in 2007 announcing a large portion of $20 billion in sales to the region. Remember the complex B.C.C.I affair, which is rumored to have helped funnel money from Saudi Arabia and the CIA to Pakistan for nuclear weapons development. Consider the strategic implications of The 1979 Siege of Mecca and our CIA's involvement in directing the operations against the zealots. Yaroslav Trofimov argues that this is one of the major elements of bin Laden's anger toward the United States. The Saudis are a massive source of Wahhabi propaganda. Trofimov also states that the royal Saudis had to make a deal with the clerics before the attack on the zealots to spread Islamic extremism around the world. The Bush family's links to the Saudis are legendary. The Saudi Lobby in DC is legendary. Lindsey Williams argues that America has a deal with OPEC to buy their oil in dollars in exchange for securities purchases. It is no secret that the Saudis lobby to keep oil denominated in dollars, and do own a sizable portion of our national debt. I could go on but this should illustrate some of the influences the Saudis have had on the United States over the years. Since the allies helped establish its borders after WWI, the Saudis have had a very close relationship with Americans.
#69. To: All, Rupert_Pupkin (#68)
#70. To: scrapper2, buckeye (#68)
Keep this quote in your mind when you consider negative influence of a lobby group:
#71. To: Rupert_Pupkin, scrapper2 (#66)
#72. To: scrapper2, iconoclast (#68)
(Edited)
For all your dust-up about the Saudis, you are either purposely or naively missing the elephant in the room...
#73. To: scrapper2, buckeye (#68)
(Edited)
#74. To: robin (#50)
she said all the Marines know, they know everything
I've already said too much.
#75. To: Zipporah (#73)
#76. To: buckeye (#75)
#77. To: Zipporah (#76)
#78. To: buckeye (#77)
#79. To: buckeye, iconoclast (#72)
I don't think I'm missing anything at all. I'm interested in eliminating all types of foreign interference withing our government, not just the Zionist lobby.
#80. To: scrapper2 (#79)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#81. To: FormerLurker (#3)
I wonder if Glen Beck is DAnconia55 or Final Authority over at ElPee?
#82. To: scrapper2 (#79)
But I'd also qualify that goal by saying that we should start with the biggest and most influential one first ie. AIPAC. Would you agree?
#83. To: scrapper2 (#79)
As for mosques being built in the USA - so what? Last I heard freedom of religion is a guaranteed right stateside. Ours is a tolerant pluristic society. Are you worried about those eeeevil "Islamofacsists" in our midst who might congregate in mosques funded by the Saudis? I have no doubt there are a number of FBI divisions specifically assigned to monitoring what goes on in the mosques here so you can sleep better that no AQ are hiding there.
#84. To: Zipporah (#78)
#85. To: iconoclast (#83)
One of us is seriously confused.
#86. To: iconoclast, scrapper2 (#83)
I presume you are being facetious with this paragraph, my friend?
#87. To: buckeye (#82)
a. It's a false dilemma. We don't have to choose which, since we can eliminate both by electing a non-interventionist, Constitutional candidate who is focused on the needs of the American people first and foremost.
#88. To: scrapper2 (#87)
We can disengage from propping the Saudis AFTER we figure out a cheap fossil fuel alternative for running our industries and cars.
#89. To: scrapper2 (#84)
#90. To: buckeye (#88)
a. Are you sure we don't have as much or more oil than the Saudis do? Lindsey Williams says that we have enough to last more than 200 years in Alaska, but it's being held under wraps to prop up our securities deal with OPEC.
#91. To: Zipporah (#89)
a. Article not found .. the bizjournals one..
#92. To: scrapper2 (#91)
(Edited)
#93. To: scrapper2 (#90)
The beauty of the ME oil resources is that it is so inexpensive to get and use.
#94. To: buckeye (#93)
#95. To: scrapper2 (#94)
#96. To: buckeye, scrapper2, Zipporah (#93)
#97. To: iconoclast (#96)
(Edited)
#98. To: iconoclast (#96)
#99. To: buckeye (#95)
Lots of what if's and maybes in there. We've done what we've done, and we should learn from it. What I've learned from it is that we should now take a good opportunity to walk away from the Mideast while we've got it.
#100. To: iconoclast (#96)
(Edited)
#101. To: buckeye, scrapper2, Zipporah, wbales (#100)
I don't fear the religion of Islam whatsoever. Muslims don't try to convert me.
#102. To: iconoclast, buckeye, Zipporah, wbales (#101)
(Edited)
a. My summary reaction to your posts would be to crown you King of American Multiculturalists.
#103. To: scrapper2 (#102)
#104. To: scrapper2, buckeye, Zipporah, wbales (#102)
#105. To: iconoclast (#104)
More bluntly, let them drown in their own oil and vomit.
#106. To: Jethro Tull, robin, christine, Pinguinite, Zipporah, TwentyTwelve, Original_Intent, buckey, lodwick (#105)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#107. To: All (#106)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#108. To: FOH (#106)
#109. To: iconoclast, buckeye, Zipporah, wbales, Burkeman1 (#104)
More bluntly, let them drown in their own oil and vomit.
#110. To: Jethro Tull (#108)
Those folks need a severe beating.
#111. To: aristeides (#110)
#112. To: Jethro Tull (#105)
I'm weary of this slurry of slop cultures the PTB are allowing into our country.
#113. To: Jethro Tull (#108)
What's Health Freedom, FOH?
This "TRUCK OUT" intends to paralyze the Washington Beltway and perimeter roads around the Capitals of all 50 states to make national and international news as a means to force the media to cover the threat of the North American Union. This coverage will help us expose the FDA’s lawless participation in the Trilateral Cooperation Charter as if under the presumption that United States and its laws no longer exist.
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#114. To: Jethro Tull (#111)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#115. To: scrapper2 (#109)
#116. To: scrapper2 (#112)
You'll receive no argument from me about how the family reunification immigration policy has brought no benefit to our nation's development. But for me it's not a problem of "slop cultures." It's the fact that the majority of immigrants coming here have zero professional skills/educational specialization that our nation needs. Also we have changed from a melting pot nation to one that celebrates diversity and separateness so immigrants are not encouraged to assimilate.
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#117. To: scrapper2 (#112)
#118. To: Jethro Tull (#117)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#119. To: FOH (#106)
CODEX
#120. To: robin (#119)
(Edited)
The North American Competitiveness Council: A backgrounder 2007
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
A backgrounder by the Council of Canadians. February 2007. The North American Competitiveness Council (NACC) is an official trinational working group of ...
www.canadians.org/DI/documents/
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#121. To: Burkeman1 (#115)
Few Americans have had any significant contact with the Muslim world whatsoever to render any opinion pro or con as to the particulars of the many cultures and peoples who embrace one of the forms of that Religion. So they rely on the great stupid simplifiers like that Serb Idiot.
#122. To: FOH (#120)
a “cherrypicked group of executives who were whisked to Cancun in March by the leaders of Canada, the U.S. and Mexico, and asked to come up with a plan for taking North American integration beyond NAFTA.”
#123. To: robin (#122)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#124. To: Jethro Tull (#121)
(Edited)
Call me judgmental but when I see a Muslim woman dressed in head to toe black, save for an eye slit, I recoil in shock. I suppose some here would intentionally ignore these costume-clad freaks in the name of tolerance, but I'm not able to do so. There is no power strong enough that could make me have "significant contact" with these aliens.
#125. To: Jethro Tull (#111)
Let me amend my comment. Anyone who is actively working or supporting the joining of us with Mexico and Canada into a common North American Union needs to be shot, not beaten.
#126. To: Jethro Tull (#121)
Call me judgmental but when I see a Muslim woman dressed in head to toe black, save for an eye slit, I recoil in shock. I suppose some here would intentionally ignore these costume-clad freaks in the name of tolerance, but I'm not able to do so. There is no power strong enough that could make me have "significant contact" with these aliens.
#127. To: scrapper2 (#109)
Your comments are self-revealing.
#128. To: aristeides (#125)
Stalin would approve.
#129. To: scrapper2 (#124)
Do you have the same "recoil" reactions when you see an Indian woman in a sari or a Haddasic Jew wearing a shtreimel or when you see Catholic nuns with their headress "costumes?"
#130. To: iconoclast (#127)
Most of us on this forum don't, and never did, buy into the neocon madness. You're mostly into telling us all about your supercilious, man of the world self .... it seems well beneath you to bother answering points made.
#131. To: scrapper2 (#112)
But for me it's not a problem of "slop cultures." It's the fact that the majority of immigrants coming here have zero professional skills/educational specialization that our nation needs.
#132. To: Burkeman1, scrapper2 (#115)
#133. To: scrapper2 (#130)
As I said earlier, your comments are self-revealing. Keep it up - your remarks are far more unflattering to you than me.
#134. To: Vitamin Z (#126)
(Edited)
#135. To: Jethro Tull (#111)
Let me amend my comment. Anyone who is actively working or supporting the joining of us with Mexico and Canada into a common North American Union needs to be shot, not beaten.
#136. To: Burkeman1 (#134)
Good grief. What is more offensive? Some goo blob stupid American woman in a half shirt with her MacDonald's fed fat belly spilling out over her tight jeans that she has no business on earth wearing considering her rump size or some Persian chick dressed in an aqua blue Gandi sack with a head scarf? Granted- both are eye sores- but if I had to pick one to be my neighbor just on appearence . . . well . . . how do you say "can you spare a cup of sugar" in Farsi?
#137. To: Dakmar (#135)
I'll bring my seven iron.
#138. To: scrapper2 (#124)
Do you have the same "recoil" reactions when you see an Indian woman in a sari or a Haddasic Jew wearing a shtreimel or when you see Catholic nuns with their headress "costumes?" Or is it just when you see Muslims in their traditional garb?
#139. To: lodwick (#137)
#140. To: iconoclast (#132)
But, your very superior view from afar is undoubtedly the correct one.
#141. To: Dakmar (#135)
#142. To: Burkeman1 (#134)
Never seen a Muslim beat up another muslim over a sausage at 2AM in the morning.
#143. To: Jethro Tull (#141)
#144. To: Dakmar (#142)
No, they just kill their daughters for getting raped.
#145. To: Jethro Tull (#136)
leftist New England rump one cold,
#146. To: Burkeman1 (#144)
#147. To: Burkeman1 (#140)
Yes, it is. As his "experience" with Albanians extrapolated to "Islam" in general is a great big stupid simplification- one that is quite rampant on the reich wing.
#148. To: Burkeman1 (#144)
You know- I should start a news service. One dedicated to highlighting every fucked up weird ass crime committed by "Christians" and just do that all day long- post story after story of freak Christian cults having sex with 10 year old child brides and murdering pastors, and child molesting priests, and reverends who go on weekend long drug fueled sex sessions with gay prostitutes, of priests who helped committ genocide in Rwanda, or Christian Serb rape gangs- no matter where- no matter how different the motivations, circumstances, or conditions- just reduce all that evil down- to the fact that they are Christains.
#149. To: Dakmar (#146)
#150. To: Burkeman1 (#134)
#151. To: iconoclast (#147)
Beheadings, female abuse, bomb strapping mad folk and leadership of nations based on on an individuals' memorization of the Koran and Hadith require little in the way of "extrapolation".
#152. To: iconoclast (#150)
#153. To: Burkeman1 (#149)
#154. To: Burkeman1 (#149)
But it does indeed seem to be the particular practice of Americans to take the worst aspects of foreign cultures and magnify them to the point that that is all they all- pure evil. While at the same time Americans get insane with rage if you dare criticize their culture in any way.
#155. To: TwentyTwelve (#81)
Final Authority is Beck.
#156. To: Dakmar (#153)
#157. To: Burkeman1 (#152)
Yes- thank you for pointing out that debate winning point that Muslims are human.
#158. To: Burkeman1 (#156)
#159. To: christine (#156)
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#160. To: Burkeman1 (#145)
Yawn. It is so funny how you stoop to the neocon and reich winger charge of "leftism" just as if you were only a step removed from them .
#161. To: Dakmar (#158)
TV about how my neighborhood needed to be more diverse, and they planned on giving tax credits for minority families to move here. They must have meant Mexicans, because this neighborhood is already about 40% black.
#162. To: Burkeman1, Dakmar (#156)
The point is- you have the wrong bad guy. It isn't Ali and Apu who are to blame. It is the government that seeks to be the middle man between us that is to blame.
#163. To: scrapper2 (#99)
We should expect to pay more $ for it and why not?
#164. To: scrapper2, iconoclast, Zipporah, wbales (#102)
I'm very much pro-melting pot as opposed to multi-culturalism.
#165. To: Esso (#162)
(Edited)
You came so close there, but PC kept you from hitting the bull's eye.
#166. To: scrapper2, Burkeman1, buckeye, All (#102)
P.S. Re: your fears about Sharia Law use in the West - it's my understanding that it would be used much like Orthodox Judaic Law is currently used - to resolve family legal disputes and it would only be applied if all parties consent. Fyi, in Canada for example one of the most vocal supporters of Sharia Law implementation in one of the provinces was the Jewish community.
#167. To: scrapper2, Burkeman1, buckeye, All (#166)
#168. To: iconoclast (#167)
#169. To: Burkeman1, Esso (#161)
And then, when the race riot erupts between blacks and Mexicans as a result of the resentment and distrust these social engineering schemes produced- that same talking head politicain or bureaucrat will come on teevee (with no one pointing at him as the blame at all) and tell us how we need more of the same race based solutions - like "hate crime" laws.
#170. To: iconoclast, Burkeman1, buckeye, All (#166)
scrapper2: P.S. Re: your fears about Sharia Law use in the West - it's my understanding that it would be used much like Orthodox Judaic Law is currently used - to resolve family legal disputes and it would only be applied if all parties consent. Fyi, in Canada for example one of the most vocal supporters of Sharia Law implementation in one of the provinces was the Jewish community.
#171. To: iconoclast, Burkeman1, buckeye, All (#167)
(Edited)
Perhaps such policy failures would be more meaningful if motorists, the next time they fill up their gas tank, would envision a woman barely in her 20s facing 200 lashes for no crime at all.
#172. To: scrapper2 (#171)
No one - including the opinion editor or the likes of you - have ever been in the least way concerned about Saudi Arabian women until now.
#173. To: noone222, scrapper2, iconoclast (#172)
#174. To: buckeye (#173)
#175. To: noone222 (#174)
(Edited)
#176. To: buckeye (#175)
I think it's already gone way too far. I blame the NeoCons for that.
#177. To: noone222 (#176)
#178. To: buckeye (#177)
#179. To: buckeye, noone222, iconoclast, Burkeman1 (#173)
It's not a red herring to be concerned with immigration from such countries. We're Balkanizing America.
#180. To: noone222, buckeye, iconoclast, Burkeman1 (#174)
My reference was to the sharia law and 200 lashes for the rape victim ... that was being discussed on every talk radio program yesterday.
#181. To: scrapper2, buckeye, noone222, iconoclast, Burkeman1, TwentyTwelve, FormerLurker, pinguinite, FOH, christine, robin, all (#179)
"There is nothing new under the sun." - Anaximander
"You can never step in the same river twice." ~ Anaximenes
"...we need immigration to replace ourselves. Right now - were it not for the Hispanics who are having multiple babies aplenty - we would be in the same dying on the vine boat as Europe and Russia."
" Btw, most Lebanese are tri-lingual - Arabic, English, and French. Can you say the same about our American schooled dumdums who can barely master English?"
" Yes, our government is balkanizing new immigrants, perhaps purposely so."
#182. To: Original_Intent, buckeye, noone222, iconoclast, Burkeman1, TwentyTwelve, FormerLurker, pinguinite, FOH, christine, robin, all (#181)
a. You really should spend more time reading history. We can learn much about the present by knowing what was a successful solution to similar problems in the past.
#183. To: Original_Intent (#181)
" Btw, most Lebanese are tri-lingual - Arabic, English, and French. Can you say the same about our American schooled dumdums who can barely master English?"
#184. To: scrapper2 (#182)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#185. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#183)
what about the embarassment of having a President who hasn't mastered the English language?
#186. To: Original_Intent, scrapper2, buckeye, noone222, iconoclast, FOH (#181)
(Edited)
Of course the question is do we want a continually expanding population?
#187. To: FOH (#184)
(Edited)
My only problem is with the adherents of the pseudo-religion dba "Islam" want to murder people instead of just taking on the governments they say they have disagreements with...
#188. To: scrapper2 (#187)
I see the election of Dr. Ron Paul as a long awaited/needed positive force for our nation and peoples as well as for nations and peoples around the world.
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#189. To: FOH, Original_Intent, buckeye, iconoclaust (#188)
scrapper: I see the election of Dr. Ron Paul as a long awaited/needed positive force for our nation and peoples as well as for nations and peoples around the world.
#190. To: scrapper2, FOH, Original_Intent, buckeye, iconoclast (#189)
#191. To: scrapper2, iconoclast, FOH (#189)
And my good wishes for a Happy Thanksgiving go back to you.
#192. To: buckeye, scrapper2, iconoclast, FOH (#191)
And my good wishes for a Happy Thanksgiving go back to you.
#193. To: Original_Intent, ALL (#192)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#194. To: Original_Intent, scrapper2, buckeye, iconoclast, Jethro Tull, Burkeman, Dakmar, all (#192)
#195. To: FOH (#193)
#196. To: christine (#194)
#197. To: Original_Intent (#196)
#198. To: christine (#197)
#199. To: Original_Intent (#196)
I wish I hadn't lost my "Blush Smiley" when my other Hard Drive crashed.
My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh
#200. To: farmfriend (#199)
#201. To: Original_Intent (#200)
Thankfully I've still got all those other "cool" ones you sent via PM.
My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh
#202. To: farmfriend (#201)
#203. To: scrapper2, ALL (#187)
I see the election of Dr. Ron Paul as a long awaited/needed positive force for our nation and peoples as well as for nations and peoples around the world.
#204. To: scrapper2 (#189)
please try to remember that though I may engage you in spirited debates, I never hold a grudge and my "scrappiness" is never meant to be malicious or hurtful.
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