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Title: Debunking the Truthers Again
Source:
environmentalrepublican
URL Source: http://environmentalrepublican.blog ... /debunking-truthers-again.html
Published: Nov 18, 2007
Author: environmentalrepublican
Post Date: 2007-11-18 15:21:04 by longnose gar
Keywords: twoofers, cue spooky music, the joos did it
Views: 707
Comments: 35
We've all read the Popular Mechanics study on the collapse of the Twin Towers, they painstakingly explained in plain English how the towers fell floor upon floor. That's not been enough for the "Truthers" who still are fixated on the collapse of both towers and WT 7. Another magazine--Structure (link in PDF)-- has joined in the debunking and shows in perfect detail the "kinking" of the penthouse on the north side and the subsequent dropping of the penthouse that started the entire collapse. I'm no engineer but the explanation makes sense as to why the buildings collapsed inward and down and didn't fall over or fall in some other manner. Of course the idiot Truthers will not buy into this because, just as global warming zealots have done, they've developed a cottage industry and they aren't about to agree with any rational explanation that would be presented. Is it any surprise that these morons and Ron Paul supporters have united?
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#1. To: longnose gar (#0)
Yeah it was painful alright .. mainly cause it was bullshit.
The longnose gar is a primarily piscivorous ambush predator. The species is found mainly in backwaters, low inflow pools and clear streams.
..and frugly :P
I saw one eating lox in a van, down by the river.
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
Is it any surprise that those that don't understand basic physics swallow whatever propaganda they are given, and then try to tell everyone else they're smarter than them? Here's some REAL experts that you might want to listen to.. Engineers and Architects Question the 9/11 Commission Report
Written, as all know by now, Ben Chertoff, the cousin of Fatherland Security Czar, Michael Chertoff. I wonder if Mike's office edited the final release.
piscivorous - feeding habitually or mainly on fish Kinda like Gollum.
How The Bush Administration Uses Nepotism To Conceal Its Dark Secrets About 911
What's really amusing is how he tried to deny any relationship at first.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Truthers need a saliva test... Just kiddin, stop throwing things.
Alex Jones Responds To Ben Chertoff, Popular Mechanics 9/11 Debunking Campaign Alex Jones responds to the Popular Mechanics 9/11 debunking exercise. Popular Mechanics featured a so-called 'serious analysis' of alternative explanations behind 9/11 in their March issue. In actual fact, the entire article was a straw man exercise. Popular Mechanics attributed false arguments to researchers and then attacked them. On top of that they lied outright by claiming that there was only one intercept of errant aircraft before 9/11. Alex also addresses the issue of Ben Chertoff, the chief editor of the piece, being cousins with Michael Chertoff, the new Secretery of Homeland Security, an agency which owes its very existence to the establishment version of the 9/11 attack. http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/090305alexresponds.mp3 p>
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Reply to Popular Mechanics re 9/11
Debunking Popular Mechanics' 9/11 Lies - Looking Glass News
Paul Craig Roberts www.vdare.com/roberts/070326_evidence.htm Perhaps it is merely a coincidence that just prior to 9/11 Cathleen P. Black, who has family connections to the CIA and Pentagon and is president of Hearst Magazines, the owner of Popular Mechanics, fired the magazine’s editor-in-chief and several senior veteran staff members and installed James B. Meigs and Benjamin Chertoff, a cousin of Bush administration factotum Michael Chertoff. It was Meigs and Benjamin Chertoff who produced the Popular Mechanics report that Griffin has eviscerated. In his conclusion Griffin reminds us that the 9/11 attack has been used to start wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, to plan an attack on Iran, to curtail constitutional protections and civil liberties in the US, to radically expand US military budgets and the power of the executive, and to enrich entrenched vested interests. Griffin is definitely correct about this regardless of whether a believable case can ever be made for the government’s version of the 9/11 conspiracy. However Benjamin Chertoff's Mother, when asked about a possible relation, she said they were cousins."[8] Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Lift up a rock, they all cuzins under there.
They don't all deny it or lie that it is a distant relationship. And then there is this by Paul Craig Roberts www.vdare.com/roberts/070326_evidence.htm Perhaps it is merely a coincidence that just prior to 9/11 Cathleen P. Black, who has family connections to the CIA and Pentagon and is president of Hearst Magazines, the owner of Popular Mechanics, fired the magazine’s editor-in-chief and several senior veteran staff members and installed James B. Meigs and Benjamin Chertoff, a cousin of Bush administration factotum Michael Chertoff. It was Meigs and Benjamin Chertoff who produced the Popular Mechanics report that Griffin has eviscerated.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
ping.
I find the highlighted part especially interesting.. It's sort of like the "coincidence" of a massive troop buildup in the Persian Gulf just BEFORE 9/11.. From A TIMELINE SURROUNDING SEPTEMBER 11TH It's a mere coincidence, all of it. Repeat after me. It's a mere coincidence. And they didn't know they were cousins, only their mothers knew.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
davin coburn from popular mechanics answers 9/11 questions 1 Wake up people, your government is lying to you!
I said the Israelis did 9-11 not all joos. Some Joos are trying to uncover the truth. Most notable are the Joos at www.WeAreChangeLA.org and at www.WTC7.net . And they don't all have long noses. Katie Kurtzman is sorta cute though i do not think she would breed willingly with a moron or a Zionist stooge like you so you might have to try hanging out at www.masada2000.org to get a date.
The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie
Lying has become a fine art these days. It requires the same talents as an actor, used car dealer, or insurance salesman. These so-called "journalists" have to KNOW what they are saying is false, and through lack of emotion or conscience can lie with such skill that they appear to be sincere and honest, just as great actors and scam artists can appear sincere in their performances.
Where'd Har Longoose go?
disappointed?
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
A peer reviewd ENGINEERING study, dumbass. You people are too stupid to be allowed reproduction abilities. http://winterpatriot.pbwiki.com/f/seffen_simple_analysis.pdf Conclusion: ****************** These comments attest to the similarities between the collapse sequences of both WTC towers despite their quite different initial conditions. And it is noted that progressive collapse, when wrought, is quite ordinary and regular and not due to extraordinary, possibly conspiratorial, influences.
Jewish American (Former IDF) Overhears Secret Meeting In Cemetery - In Hebrew By Ed Hass 12-2-6 excerpt: - In October 2000, approximately 11 months prior to Sept. 11, 2001, a former Israeli Defense Force member and veteran of theYom Kippur War (1973) was collecting English Ivy cuttings at the Gomel Chesed Cemetery located at McCellen and 245 Mount Olive Ave. in Newark, NJ. The Gomel Chesed Cemetery is a 'Jewish' cemetery. While he was scouting the cemetery for ivy cuttings, he overheard what he believed to be a conversation spoken in Hebrew, which drew his attention. Curious, he walked toward the voices until he was close enough to accurately hear the conversation and confirm that it was indeed being spoken in Hebrew. He found himself along a heavily vegetated fence line that sat on top of an eight-foot high retaining wall, which concealed his presence from the men engaged in the conversation. The two men he saw and overheard were casually leaning against the retaining wall beneath him. As he watched and listened, a third man arrived to the meeting in a Lincoln Town Car. He emerged from the rear seat of the car while the driver and another passenger remained in the car. The two men leaning against the wall, upon seeing the arrival of the 3'rd man, changed their relaxed posture into that of attentiveness, signifying respect and the importance or ranking of the person that had just arrived. It was clear that the two men were waiting and expecting the arrival of the third, indicating that the meeting was pre-arranged. What the observer of these happenings heard beneath him after the normal niceties were exchanged between the three men alarmed him. The man who arrived in the Town Car said, "The Americans will learn what it is to live with terrorists after the planes hit the twins in September." One of the men that had been leaning against the retaining wall expressed concerns regarding whether the upcoming presidential election (Nov 2000) between Bush / Cheney and Gore / Lieberman could impact the plans. The man that arrived in the Town Car pacified the doubts by saying, "Don't worry, we have people in high places and no matter who gets elected, they will take care of everything." Is this Muckraker Report source that has requested that I not use his name in this article, credible? Initially, I had my doubts. However, after listening to his account of what he attempted to do with the information he had obtained in the Gomel Chesed Cemetery, coupled with the plethora of independent media accounts of a vivid Israeli connection to 9/11, I decided that I should avoid contempt prior to investigation, and check out this story. The source informed me that he wrestled with what to do with the information he stumbled upon while searching for English Ivy. Truthfully, he fears for his life. Having served in the IDF and possessing a firm understanding of how the Israeli government and the Mossad really operates, his fears are justifiable and prudent rather than the result of skittish paranoia. According to his account, on February 9, 2001, approximately 8 months prior to the airplanes being flown into the twins, he sent an e-mail to then Attorney General Ashcroft informing the Attorney General that he had important terrorism-related information. The U.S. Department of Justice did not directly respond to the source. It forwarded the e-mail to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Shortly thereafter, on March 28, 2001, the source received a letter from Arthur Radford Baker (FBI) informing him that if he had information to share, he should contact the FBI Newark Division. The source contacted the FBI Newark Division and was told that 2 agents would be in contact with him, but no FBI agents came at that time. The source continued to call the FBI Newark Division in attempt to pass his information onto the agency. He wanted to do this in person to ensure that it wasn't carelessly discarded or dismissed. He also sought a guarantee of protection by the FBI. As September 2001 drew closer, he grew more impatient. He began to act with a sense of urgency because in his words, "Time was running out!" As he was getting nowhere with the FBI Newark Division, the source decided to write a letter to Arthur Radford Baker on May 21, 2001, the person that sent the letter advising him that he should contact the FBI Newark Division. In this letter, the source reiterated that he had important information to share with the government, but would need a guarantee of protection by the FBI before he could disclose all that he knew. On the day that the source received a response letter from Arthur Radford Baker, June 26, 2001, now less than 3 months prior to the 9/11 attacks, two FBI agents finally paid a visit. They were Agent Robin Gritz and Agent Andrew Stengel. The agents were shown the second letter received that day from Arthur Radford Baker by the source. The letter informed the source that the FBI would not be able to do anything on his behalf. <>www.muckrakerreport.com/id322.html [Photos of the cards left by agents Gritz and Stengel] Without the guarantee of protection, the source was unwilling to disclose the complete details of what he heard at the Gomel Chesed Cemetery in October 2000. However the two agents, Gritz and Stengel, spent 2-3 hours attempting to draw the information out of the source. What he did tell Gritz and Stengel is that there would be an attack in New York City and airplanes would be used. He emphasized once again that he could not provide greater detail without a guarantee of protection. The source has spoken favorably to the Muckraker Report regarding Agent Gritz and Agent Stengel. They must have been in a difficult situation. It is assumed that they wanted the information the source had, yet were confronted by a letter from the upper echelon of the FBI command structure that indicted that the FBI was not willing to provide protection for the source, regardless of the information he provided. All they could offer was to "see what they could do". However, given the seriousness and scope of the intelligence the source maintained, he could not risk revealing the information on the flimsy non-committal being offered to him by two FBI special agents, particularly in light of the fact that he had just received a letter from FBI Headquarters telling him that the FBI was unwilling to do anything on his behalf. Even though Gritz and Stengel told the source that they would see what they could do for him, the source has never heard from either of them again. I contacted the FBI Newark Division on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 to confirm whether Agent Gritz and Agent Stengel met with the source on or about June 26, 2001. I was directed to the FBI Newark Division Legal Unit where I spoke with a woman who identified herself as Amy. She suggested that I put my request in writing and fax it to her, which I did that same day. On Friday, November 24, 2006 I received a phone call from Amy confirming receipt of my written request. She informed me that she would be out of the office the following week, and that somebody else from the Newark Division Legal Unit would handle my request. On Tuesday, November 28, 2006 I received a phone call from Kathy at the FBI National Press Office. She informed me that the Legal Unit decided that I needed to file a Freedom of Information Act request. On Wednesday, November 29, 2006 I contacted Agent Robin (Gritz) Laird. Since her meeting with the source on June 26, 2001, Agent Gritz has been promoted to a supervisor position within a counter terrorism unit at FBI headquarters. Once I had Agent Gritz on the phone, I introduced myself and immediately explained that I was attempting to confirm a meeting that herself and Agent Stengel allegedly had with the source on June 26, 2001. Agent Gritz was already aware of my inquiries. She indicated th at she understood that the Press Office was handling my request. I told her that I decided to call her directly and emphasized that I only wish to confirm the meeting. Gritz said, "I'm not allowed to discuss this with you. I would get in trouble." ... The Muckraker Report has received copies of the contact cards www.muckrakerreport.com/id322.html "You can not save the Constitution by destroying it."
Kinda told the story right there.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" The renowned and respected experts listed at the link I posted in post 5 are vastly more credible that the one individual you cite. In fact, I don't see any "peer review" of his paper, has it even been published? Look over the comments of the true experts in post 5, and you'll see that your theory is invalid.
Take a look at your list of idiots. I have no idea of what the political motivations of these clowns are, but if these fools are so certain there is some sort of government plot, then where is there peer reviewed paper documenting the engineering and physics of what they believed happened? The source I gave you noting the cause of the collapse was a peer reviewed engineering study, not just some clueless fools blathering opinion. Twoofer are the biggest idiots.
You gave a link to some unknown clown's paper, where nowhere have I seen his credentials, and nowhere have I seen his paper published. You provide no peer- review, you simply state that it's so. Try again clown.
It is published in Structure magazine: http://www.structuremag.org/ See the first article. And as for his credentials: Ramon Gilsanz, P.E., S.E is a partner at Gilsanz Murray Steficik, a structural engineering and building envelope consulting firm. Ramon has 25 years of experience in a wide range of project types and sizes as well as being involved in the cleanup at ground zero, the selection of WTC steel remnants for analysis, the ACSE-FEMA WTC report, and the ensuing NIST report. Now what has your group of moron twoofer architects published? Keep in mind: Real expert: Someone with advanced degrees and official licenses in the topic of discussion along with many years of experience. Referred to by twoofers as a "government shill." Twoofer expert: Someone who just makes knee jerk, off the cuff remarks suggesting some kind of government plot.
painstakingly
#2. To: Zipporah (#1)
From Wiki -
#3. To: lodwick (#2)
longnose gar
#4. To: lodwick (#2)
The longnose gar is a primarily piscivorous ambush predator. The species is found mainly in backwaters, low inflow pools and clear streams.
#5. To: longnose gar (#0)
Is it any surprise that these morons and Ron Paul supporters have united?
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#6. To: all (#0)
We've all read the Popular Mechanics study on the collapse of the Twin Towers, they painstakingly explained in plain English how the towers fell floor upon floor.
#7. To: lodwick (#2)
The longnose gar is a primarily piscivorous ambush predator.
#8. To: All (#6)
educate-yourself.org/cn/c...11propaganda06mar05.shtml
#9. To: angle, FormerLurker, FOH (#6)
Written, as all know by now, Ben Chertoff, the cousin of Fatherland Security Czar, Michael Chertoff.
#10. To: TwentyTwelve, angle (#9)
#11. To: robin (#10)
#12. To: robin, angle (#10)
What's really amusing is how he tried to deny any relationship at first.
#13. To: Cynicom (#11)
Supporters of the conspiracy theories have claimed that 9/11: Debunking The Myths is "a propaganda piece" written by "a senior government official's cousin" because Chertoff bears the same last name as Department of Homeland Security secretary Michael Chertoff. However, Chertoff has repeatedly denied this claim, most notably in the September 11, 2006 issue of U.S. News & World Report, stating "no one in my family has ever met anyone related to Michael Chertoff".[7] In an audio interview, he noted that any possible relationship would likely only be found back in "19th century Belarus. However Benjamin Chertoff's Mother, when asked about a possible relation, she said they were cousins."[8]
#14. To: robin, FormerLurker (#10)
A rebuttal of attempts by Popular Mechanics to defend the official 9/11 story.
www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/
#15. To: robin, FormerLurker (#10)
Taking a Closer Look at the Stories Ignored by the Corporate Media....
www.lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=6880 - 34k -
#16. To: FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve (#13)
#17. To: robin (#13)
However Benjamin Chertoff's Mother, when asked about a possible relation, she said they were cousins."[
#18. To: Cynicom (#17)
However, Chertoff has repeatedly denied this claim, most notably in the September 11, 2006 issue of U.S. News & World Report, stating "no one in my family has ever met anyone related to Michael Chertoff".[7] In an audio interview, he noted that any possible relationship would likely only be found back in "19th century Belarus. However Benjamin Chertoff's Mother, when asked about a possible relation, she said they were cousins."[8]
#19. To: FormerLurker, wudidiz, Original_Intent (#12)
www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/090305alexresponds.mp3
#20. To: robin, TwentyTwelve (#16)
Perhaps it is merely a coincidence that just prior to 9/11 Cathleen P. Black, who has family connections to the CIA and Pentagon and is president of Hearst Magazines, the owner of Popular Mechanics, fired the magazine’s editor-in-chief and several senior veteran staff members and installed James B. Meigs and Benjamin Chertoff, a cousin of Bush administration factotum Michael Chertoff.
46. Sept. 1-10 2001 - In an exercise, called Operation "Swift Sword" and planned for four years, 23,000 British troops are steaming toward Oman. Although the 9-11 attacks caused a hiccup in the deployment, the massive operation was implemented as planned. At the same time two U.S. carrier battle groups arrive on station in the Gulf of Arabia just off the Pakistani coast. Also at the same time, some 17,000 U.S. troops join more than 23,000 NATO troops in Egypt for Operation "Bright Star." All of these forces are in place before the first plane hits the WTC. [Sources: The Guardian; CNN; Fox; The Observer; International Law Professor Francis Boyle, the University of Illinois.]
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#21. To: FormerLurker (#20)
#22. To: FormerLurker, All (#5)
#23. To: longnose gar (#0)
the joos did it
#24. To: Horse (#23)
Ever gone bow-fishing? It's a hoot.
#25. To: TwentyTwelve (#22)
davin coburn from popular mechanics answers 9/11 questions
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#26. To: FormerLurker (#25)
Lying has become a fine art these days. It requires the same talents as an actor, used car dealer, or insurance salesman.
#27. To: robin (#16)
#28. To: angle (#27)
#29. To: FormerLurker (#5)
#30. To: longnose gar (#29)
#31. To: robin (#10)
What's really amusing is how he tried to deny any relationship at first.
#32. To: longnose gar (#29)
A peer reviewd ENGINEERING study, dumbass. You people are too stupid to be allowed reproduction abilities.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#33. To: FormerLurker (#32)
#34. To: longnose gar (#33)
Take a look at your list of idiots. I have no idea of what the political motivations of these clowns are, but if these fools are so certain there is some sort of government plot, then where is there peer reviewed paper documenting the engineering and physics of what they believed happened? The source I gave you noting the cause of the collapse was a peer reviewed engineering study, not just some clueless fools blathering opinion.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#35. To: FormerLurker (#34)
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