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Title: Just Got a Republican Poll Call
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Published: Nov 19, 2007
Author: me
Post Date: 2007-11-19 22:40:36 by tom007
Keywords: None
Views: 392
Comments: 30
Just got an automated phone poll in Colorado Springs a reliable Republican area. "If the pup primaries were held today how would you vote? Press one for McCain, two for Juli (etc), three for (I forget) four for (I forget), five for undecided or other. Ron Paul was not mentioned. Seems the system is deciding for us. It was a form of advertising mascarading as a poll.
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#1. To: tom007 (#0)
Tom, I read this article the other day and forgot you were in colorado - it might interest you. I saw it at tpmcafe.com Colorado Springs and the Politics of Conformity By Cass Sunstein | bio What are the effects of the Internet on democracy? The answer depends, of course, on how people use the Internet. But let's begin with a possible clue, coming from a small experiment in democracy, held in Colorado in 2005. About sixty American citizens were brought together and assembled into ten groups, each consisting of five or six people. Members of each group were asked to deliberate on three of the most controversial issues of the day: Should the United States sign an international treaty to combat global warming? Should states allow same-sex couples to enter into civil unions? Should employers engage in affirmative action by giving a preference to members of traditionally disadvantaged groups? As the experiment was designed, the groups consisted of predominantly liberal or conservative members—with the liberal groups coming from Boulder, and the conservative groups from Colorado Springs. (The groups were not mixed together.) It is widely known that Boulder tends to be liberal and that Colorado Springs tends to be conservative. The groups were screened to ensure that their members conformed to these stereotypes. (For example, if people in Boulder liked Vice President Cheney, they were cordially excused from the experiment.) People were asked to state their opinions anonymously both before and after a period of group discussion, and also to try to reach a public verdict before the final anonymous statement. What was the effect of discussion? The results were simple. In almost every group, members ended up with more extreme positions after they spoke with one another. Discussion made civil unions more popular among liberals; discussion made civil unions less popular among conservatives. Liberals favored an international treaty to control global warming before discussion; they favored it more strongly after discussion. Conservatives were neutral on that treaty before discussion; they strongly opposed it after discussion. Mildly favorable toward affirmative action before discussion, liberals became strongly favorable toward affirmative action after discussion. Firmly negative about affirmative action before discussion, conservatives became even more negative abou affirmative action after discussion. Aside from increasing extremism, the experiment had an independent effect: it made both liberal groups and conservative groups significantly more homogeneous— and thus squelched diversity. Before members started to talk, many groups displayed a fair bit of internal disagreement. The disagreements were greatly reduced as a result of a mere fifteen-minute discussion. Even in their anonymous statements, group members showed far more consensus after discussion than before. It follows that discussion helped to widen the rift between liberals and conservatives on all three issues. Before discussion, some liberal groups were, on some issues, fairly close to some conservative groups. The result of discussion was to separate them far more sharply. Before long, I will offer some speculations about why these effects occurred. For the moment, notice a simple fact. To the extent that geography, freedom of association, or the Internet allows people to sort themselves into groups of like- minded types, something like our Colorado experiment will be a common occurrence. In fact, the Internet is producing fascinating variations on that experiment every day. It is not clear that anything should be done about the situation, and I am hardly contending that on balance, the Internet is bad for democracy. But it is clear that self-sorting, into groups of like-minded types, will often produce greater extremism -- and much reduce internal diversity.
This is an important concept. During WWII a lot of psycologists were assigned to monitoring what was happening in the foxholes. What they found was that, in pretty short order, the majority opinion of close bunched men became the total opinion of all the men. Back then education was rotten, so informed critical opposition POV would have been few and far between IMO. The real point was that most people will go along and even readily change their beliefs if the majority, or (more to the point, perhaps) a vocal minority, gain acceptance. Pretty understandable - few want to buck the trend, and the trend is usually correct. Not always, and the US Army saw how to use this information to control a violent bunch of rather uneducated folks - the army.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" Ron Paul is the GOP's last (and I mean that) chance for survival...
What North American Union? Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...
What North American Union? Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around...
sooooooooo maddening!!!
sooooooooo maddening!!!
oh, i like that one.
it really is. I'm one of the handful of "bleeding heart liberals" here, I think. I used to spend my online time with people who had always thought just like me, but came to a realization that I learned more around people who were growing and changing just like me. I enjoy the *bush bashing* - I probably actually enjoy it more among people who once liked him and believed in him. it doesn't make me feel superior or self-righteous at all, I like to think we all learn from each other. I know I do. that's what was interesting to me about the experiment. if I only talk to people just like me, what do I learn? and more importantly, how do I validate my beliefs if they're never challenged?
sooooooooo maddening!!! It really struck me that this was a deliberate tactic to marginalize him, as "other" and actually be an advert for the RNC knighted candidates. I am a Republican "Central Committee" member of El Paso county, as being elected a year ago as a division leader and the Central Committee is meeting in early December. I just may find the gumption to bring up some unpleasant facts. The last CC meeting the word Iraq and War was NEVER mentioned.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I still find that fact disturbing. The most central issue of our day by light years, yet it seemed to be a forbidden topic. As it is in most civil discourse, people seem afraid to speak of the colonization the US is obviously imposing in Iraq. Then there is Palistine. And Iran.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" We should be more worried about one-way media like TV, film, radio, and Internet news. Forums rarely insulate one from outside influence.
probably most 4'ers!
so were the pertinent issues discussed abortion, same sex marriages, and hillary? ;)
I think you know the answer to that - No. Their was no meaningful or coherent discussion what so ever. The whole thing was engineered to be a legal rubber stamp for the existing status quo. Surprise Surprise.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I agree. I know people who only get their *news* from fox. but I also know people who only get their *news* from freerepublic. and I do wonder about them :)
Right now, kiki, I think we're going to lose this country if liberals and conservatives don't put aside their differences for a year and peacefully change their government from top to bottom.
Clue: Party central committees, or county committees DO NOT WANT, I repeat, DO NOT WANT, real input from the unwashed masses. LOL.... I learned that back in the 80s when I ran for office! They want your hands to WORK for them, and your wallet TO DO THE SAME. In fact, it was sort of like the Woman's Club I was a member of. I was good at clearing tables and dishwashing. Other than that, I could have NO good ideas OR different ideas! The damned dinner has always been turkey and ham with all the trimmings. Heaven help us that we should change and do a roast or prime rib!
Did they offer "0"(zero)? I would've picked that.
Yes I believe you are correct.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I learned that back in the 80s when I ran for office! They want your hands to WORK for them, and your wallet TO DO THE SAME. yeah, for real. and I'm coming around to accept that. if I ever thought I could make a difference........... every day, I think more and more about simply giving up and giving in and finding a new country, one less militaristic and less embarassing. any ideas?
We are needed to establish "ligitamacy".
"Satan / Cheney in "08" There is no place to run from these people. Stand and oppose them. It's our duty.
Throw the pigs out now!
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
Agreed. Like the old saying goes: You can run, but you can't hide.
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
Exactly. The people running the show, the International Banking Cartel - Rothschilds, Warburgs, Rockefellers, et.al., are aiming at complete global domination. If they succeed there will be nowhere on the planet to go to be free of their control and a long dark night will descend. That is why they are so pissed off at Russia. The Russian aren't playing and may yet be part of the salvation of OUR freedom - just as they came to our aid during the American Revolution and again during the Civil War. "How many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools." - Unk.
Yes that was the other or none of the above selection. And that was my selection naturally.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I don't suppose that you were given the 'none of these people' option... They are scared witless of Dr.Paul and his message.
Memo: read the entire thread before posting your genius replies...
#2. To: kiki (#1)
t effect: it made both liberal groups and conservative groups significantly more homogeneous— and thus squelched diversity. Before members started to talk, many groups displayed a fair bit of
#3. To: tom007 (#0)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#4. To: FOH (#3)
Ron Paul is the GOP's last (and I mean that) chance for survival...
#5. To: TwentyTwelve (#4)
Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW!
#6. To: tom007 (#0)
Ron Paul was not mentioned.
#7. To: christine, tom007 (#6)
Ron Paul was not mentioned.
#8. To: TwentyTwelve (#7)
#9. To: tom007 (#2)
(Edited)
This is an important concept.
#10. To: christine (#6)
Ron Paul was not mentioned.
#11. To: All (#10)
The last CC meeting the word Iraq and War was NEVER mentioned.
#12. To: kiki, Hayek Fan (#9)
I'm one of the handful of "bleeding heart liberals" here, I think.
#13. To: kiki (#9)
I probably actually enjoy it more among people who once liked him and believed in him.
#14. To: tom007 (#11)
#15. To: christine (#14)
so were the pertinent issues discussed abortion, same sex marriages, and hillary? ;)
#16. To: buckeye (#12)
We should be more worried about one-way media like TV, film, radio, and Internet news. Forums rarely insulate one from outside influence.
#17. To: kiki (#16)
#18. To: tom007 (#15)
#19. To: tom007 (#0)
From Two Party System... ...to Two Family System.
#20. To: rowdee (#18)
Clue: Party central committees, or county committees DO NOT WANT, I repeat, DO NOT WANT, real input from the unwashed masses. LOL....
#21. To: rowdee (#18)
Clue: Party central committees, or county committees DO NOT WANT, I repeat, DO NOT WANT, real input from the unwashed masses. LOL....
#22. To: PnbC (#19)
#23. To: kiki (#21)
Any ideas?
#24. To: tom007 (#0)
Ron Paul was not mentioned.
#25. To: buckeye (#23)
There is no place to run from these people. Stand and oppose them. It's our duty.
Steven Wright
#26. To: innieway (#25)
#27. To: buckeye (#26)
1. This thing is global.
2. America truly was the most free country in the world. We can't let it fall.
3. Everything we have is due to those who sacrificed before us to preserve freedom. "Either we hang together or most assuredly we shall all hang seperately." ~ Benjamin Franklin
#28. To: PnbC (#19)
Did they offer "0"(zero)? I would've picked that.
#29. To: tom007 (#2)
#30. To: lodwick (#29)
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