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Title: France stunned by rioters’ savagery
Source:
Times
URL Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ne ... orld/europe/article2983714.ece
Published: Dec 2, 2007
Author: Matthew Campbell
Post Date: 2007-12-02 21:32:56 by Horse
Keywords: None
Views: 502
Comments: 38
IN retrospect, it was not a good idea to have left his pistol at home. Called to the scene of a traffic accident in the Paris suburbs last Sunday, Jean-François Illy, a regional police chief, came face to face with a mob of immigrant youths armed with baseball bats, iron bars and shotguns. What happened next has sickened the nation. As Illy tried to reassure the gang that there would be an investigation into the deaths of two teenagers whose motorbike had just collided with a police car, he heard a voice shouting: “Somebody must pay for this. Some pigs must die tonight!” The 43-year-old commissaire realised it was time to leave, but that was not possible: they set his car ablaze. He stood as the mob closed in on him, parrying the first few baseball bat blows with his arms. An iron bar in the face knocked him down. “I tried to roll myself into a ball on the ground,” said Illy from his hospital bed. He was breathing with difficulty because several of his ribs had been broken and one had punctured his lung. His bruised and bloodied face signalled a worrying new level of barbarity in the mainly Muslim banlieues, where organised gangs of rioters used guns against police in a two-day rampage of looting and burning last week. Not far from where Illy was lying was a policeman who lost his right eye after being hit by pellets from a shotgun. Another policeman displayed a hole the size of a 10p coin in his shoulder where a bullet had passed through his body armour. Altogether 130 policemen were injured, dozens by shotgun pellets and shells packed with nails that were fired from a homemade bazooka. It prompted talk of urban “guerrilla warfare” being waged on French streets against the forces of law and order. By the end of the week an extraordinarily heavy police presence in Villiers-le-Bel, where most of the rioting took place, appeared to have halted the violence: on top of public transport strikes and student protests against his reform plans, Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, could not afford a repeat of 2005, when a similar incident involving the deaths of two youths provoked the worst French urban unrest in four decades. Things were so tense in the suburbs, however, that the riots could easily erupt again with the prospect of deaths on either side setting off a much greater explosion and, conceivably, the deployment of the army to keep peace. “Given the weapons being used, it was lucky that nobody was killed,” said a policeman. Nearby were the charred remains of the local constabulary. The nursery school was burnt down. So was the library. Rioting two years ago was widely regarded as a protest against poor housing, racial discrimination and unemployment of up to 40% in the grim housing estates surrounding most big French cities. But “Sarko” dismissed suggestions that nothing had been done to improve the situation, referring to the “Marshall plan” for the banlieues being drawn up by Fadela Amara, his urban development minister. At the same time he argued that, far from reflecting difficult living conditions, the violence was a result of the “thugocracy” of the suburbs, where drug-trafficking criminals held sway. “We shouldn’t try to excuse the inexcusable,” said the president in a television address to an anxious nation on Thursday, ridiculing the left’s vision of rioters as “victims of social injustice”. He pledged that those who fired at police would be tracked down, one by one, and tried on charges of attempted murder. Lawlessness in the suburbs is an awkward issue for Sarkozy because he had promised to deal with it as interior minister, when he introduced “zero tolerance” policing, only to be accused of aggravating the problem by referring to trouble-makers as “thugs” and “scum”. Despite some successes, many of the suburban ghettoes remain a law unto their own and, like parts of New York in the bad old days, policemen do not like to set foot there. “It felt like they were out to kill us,” said one of the officers in Villiers-le-Bel last week. “We knew that there were weapons in the suburbs, but they have never been turned against us like that. The kids were shooting at us at close range, loading and reloading their weapons. I’ve never seen anything like it.” Sarkozy has ordered a full judicial inquiry into the teenagers’ deaths, even though all the evidence seems to support the police version that the boys were thrown from their unlicensed motorcycle when it accidentally collided with a patrol car. Friends and relatives of the victims dismiss the official account of the incident as fantasy. As for Illy, he says he is not feeling vengeful but has identified one of his attackers from police photographs. He is certain to be able to pinpoint the rest. “Fortunately,” he said, “I’ve got a very good memory.” http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kKPqT_c2xlI Video of riots.
Poster Comment: Mass immigration is working well for the French. AFter the dollar collapses, a news article like this would be considered a quiet night in an American city.
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#1. To: Horse (#0)
hmmmmm...
The barbarity of Muslim wackos shouldn't surprise anyone.
No savagery more stunning than Zionist brutality & brutal barbaraty
As though our nation and our good friend, Israel, are any more civilized considering our regular use of DU weaponry and DIME bombs and bunker busters - all used on civilian populations ( better known as "collateral damages"). Give me a friggin' break with your closed mind and pious judgmental tone. Never forget that it was our nation that was the first nation ever to use atomic bombs on 2 non-military targets in Japan. Your remarks are shallow and embaressing to say the least.
Not to worry. Whitey will provide.
shells packed with nails that were fired from a homemade bazooka.
#2. To: Horse (#0)
a worrying new level of barbarity in the mainly Muslim banlieues
#3. To: Horse (#0)
#4. To: Mister Clean (#2)
The barbarity of Muslim wackos shouldn't surprise anyone.
#5. To: Horse (#0)
The nursery school was burnt down. So was the library.
 | "Vampire Video" is so pejorative. At Intel we prefer the term "integrated graphics." |
#6. To: Horse (#0)
That's because they were, white man. Remind yourself they were not successful. The only reason they're still alive is you weren't ready to kill them. When you actually are ready, you won't have to kill very many at all.
“It felt like they were out to kill us,”
| "Vampire Video" is so pejorative. At Intel we prefer the term "integrated graphics." |
#7. To: Mister Clean (#2)
I actually agree with you -- especially when Muslims are mixed in with Westerners. Although in France the term "Muslim" is at least partly a proxy for black. The first arrivals of other ethnics into the West are typically intelligent, hard working, and well behaved. But this tends to be less true of their children and grandchildren. First-generation black Muslim immigrants have themselves noted this. They cannot relate at all to these young thugs. It's a combination of two factors, mean reversion, and emergent properties of groups. Geographically concentrated ethnics behave differently than they would if spread out and not locally dominant. Taking even the exact same individuals.
The barbarity of Muslim wackos shouldn't surprise anyone.
| "Vampire Video" is so pejorative. At Intel we prefer the term "integrated graphics." |
#8. To: Horse (#0)
Islamo Fascist and MS19 riots coming soon to a US neighborhood near you.
a regional police chief, came face to face with a mob of immigrant youths armed with baseball bats
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#9. To: Tauzero (#7) (Edited)
Wrong. It's a combination of high unemployment of Muslim youth as well as radicalization by Immams from Pakistan and Afghanistan ( bought and paid for by the USA and Saudi Arabia against the Soviets in Afghanistan - dog bites master - rather predictable). Here's an article from the BBC that gives a retrospective view. www. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3764387.stm "Expulsions fuel French Muslim fears" 05/31/04 The French got lazy - they imported tons of Algerians to do labor cheap - then France's economy slowed and with high unemployment and idle hands - what happened next was not surprising IMO. That's why I'm against unbridled immigration ( both legal and illegal) to America. What happens when the economy slows down and you have created this huge underclass of unskilled "outsiders"? It's a tinderbox situation.
It's a combination of two factors, mean reversion, and emergent properties of groups.
#10. To: scrapper2 (#9)
Would you hire someone who is likely to burn your business to the ground? Think about it. Where are the "moderate Muslims" that everyone claims exist? Why are they not out in public denouncing this? Actually, some are - now - because they see the end result of such messes....but they were underground in the past. What is needed is this: If people are going to create their own 'barrio' or 'ghetto' to live in, they need to police it. If they don't police it, then, when more extreme elements break loose, well, you can do the math from there. So, when are these people going to police their own and/or cooperate with law enforcement in Paris? When hell freezes over, of course.
"Expulsions fuel French Muslim fears" 05/31/04
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.
#11. To: mirage (#10)
See my edited reply to Tauzero above.
#12. To: scrapper2 (#11)
You get it, mostly. But there is still the problem of "a few bad apples spoiling the bunch" -- the community HAS to clean itself up or at least SHOW that it is trying or all is for naught.
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.
#13. To: Tauzero (#7)
It's when they mix with anyone. It's no coincidence that most of the world's conflicts involve Muslims. There is an element within the global Muslim population that actively seeks conflict and violence.
I actually agree with you -- especially when Muslims are mixed in with Westerners.
#14. To: scrapper2 (#4)
Never forget that it was our nation that was the first nation ever to use atomic bombs on 2 non-military targets in Japan. Apples and oranges. Muslims cause trouble where ever they gather in large numbers whether it's in Europe, Africa, Asia... whether it's Islamic revolution, insurgency, terrorism, kidnapping or sharia law, a significant number of Muslims choose violence over civility. Americans and Israelis don't immigrate to other countries and start riots.
As though our nation and our good friend, Israel, are any more civilized considering our regular use of DU weaponry and DIME bombs and bunker busters - all used on civilian populations ( better known as "collateral damages"). Give me a friggin' break with your closed mind and pious judgmental tone.
#15. To: Mister Clean (#14)
No the Bush Regime and the Knesset call them preemptive strikes. So much more civilized; especially the white phosphorus and cluster bombs. If the ME was not such a boiling cauldron, Muslims would not have had a reason to leave Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq.
Americans and Israelis don't immigrate to other countries and start riots.
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#16. To: robin (#15)
If the ME was not such a boiling cauldron, Muslims would not have had a reason to leave Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. Israel and the US are not responsible for the backward belief systems and behavior found in Muslim nations. Israel and the US don't subjugate women. Israel and the US don't enforce barbaric sharia laws. Israel and the US don't punish rape victims. Israel and the US don't make Muslims riot in Europe. Israel and the US don't force Muslims in the Philippines to kidnap people. Israel and the US don't make the crazies in Sudan kill in the name of their religion.
No the Bush Regime and the Knesset call them preemptive strikes. So much more civilized; especially the white phosphorus and cluster bombs.
#17. To: scrapper2 (#9)
You got that part right.
The French got lazy - they imported tons of Algerians to do labor cheap
| "Vampire Video" is so pejorative. At Intel we prefer the term "integrated graphics." |
#18. To: Mister Clean (#16)
There was nothing backward in Iraq. Women were college educated, wore western dress and had good careers; and before the US imposed embargo children were healthy. No question, their leader was a vicious dictator, just like so many others that still exists, NK for example (and Kim Il Jong enjoys starving his people just for fun). Yet, out of all the Muslim world, this was the nation the US bombed and destroyed. It had nothing to do with their "backward" ways, just the opposite. Israel has invaded Lebanon twice, both times Lebanon was an economic powerhouse, the Swiss of the ME, making Israel look tawdry. You are short on facts and long on propaganda.
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#19. To: robin (#18)
There was nothing backward in Iraq. Women were college educated, wore western dress and had good careers; and before the US imposed embargo children were healthy. No question, their leader was a vicious dictator, just like so many others that still exists, NK for example (and Kim Il Jong enjoys starving his people just for fun). So you don't consider a "vicious dictator" to be backward. Oooookay. Israel has invaded Lebanon twice, both times Lebanon was an economic powerhouse, the Swiss of the ME, making Israel look tawdry. Is that what makes Muslims all over the world engage in violence?
#20. To: Tauzero (#17)
Have you ever noticed how 99.9% of the elites are white? What is the ethnic breakdown of the CFR, the Bilderbergers, the Davos gentry? Yep, white, yet they are the driving force behind global, forcible integration. France is a mess as is England and increasingly America. We commoners know the effect of an influx of browns and darks into our culture, save for the gutless whites who celebrate diversity. Am I the only one to notice their dual standard? Does the diversity crowd notice, or do they have a PC cork firmly in their mouths?
#21. To: Mister Clean (#19)
I see it is necessary to repeat what I already posted to you, but with further explanation. There are many vicious dictators in the world, as I mentioned and gave the example of NK. But that does not necessarily make the entire nation backwards. Saddam's regime allowed for women to be educated, have careers and wear western dress. NK is very backward and a danger to us, building a nuclear weapon (oops! too late now! but it wasn't then) Don't you find it peculiar that in all the ME, the nation that was destroyed was the one without a theocracy? The one that was the most fair to women? The one that we did business with? The one that did our bidding and attacked Iran? Of course all that is changed now, thanks to the Deciderer. Iraq is now full of religious fervor, and lots of hatred. What a wonderful difference Smirk has made in the ME. Here are some more world dictators: www.parade.com/articles/e...tion_01-22-2006/Dictators Oh look Saudi Arabia, the Bush family friend.
7) King Abdullah, Saudi Arabia. Age 82. In power since 1995. Last year’s rank: 5
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#22. To: Jethro Tull (#20)
I was thinking I might vote for Hillary. We have actually something in common. To the best of my knowledge, she's the only candidate to have said "nigger" and "you fucking Jew." I'm not sure whether she would be the second black president or the first jewish president.
Does the diversity crowd notice, or do they have a PC cork firmly in their mouths?
| "Vampire Video" is so pejorative. At Intel we prefer the term "integrated graphics." |
#23. To: robin (#21)
I see it is necessary to repeat what I already posted to you, but with further explanation. There are many vicious dictators in the world, as I mentioned and gave the example of NK. But that does not necessarily make the entire nation backwards. Iraq needed a dictator to keep order because the nation is filled with tribalist and religious fanatics, not exactly the best example of modernity. Saddam's regime allowed for women to be educated, have careers and wear western dress. NK is very backward and a danger to us, building a nuclear weapon (oops! too late now! but it wasn't then) Don't you find it peculiar that in all the ME, the nation that was destroyed was the one without a theocracy? The one that was the most fair to women? The one that we did business with? The one that did our bidding and attacked Iran? I don't find it peculiar at all that the weakest oil rich nation was attacked. Of course all that is changed now, thanks to the Deciderer. Iraq is now full of religious fervor, and lots of hatred. What a wonderful difference Smirk has made in the ME. The Iraq war removed Saddam Hussein as the force keeping the nutjobs in check. Bush didn't create those fanatics.
#24. To: Mister Clean (#19)
I see you ignored this part of my post: And it was you who first mentioned Israel: So why haven't you addressed Israel's invasion TWICE of the NOT backward Lebanon; where IDF illegally used white phosphorus and cluster bombs against the NOT backward and INNOCENT civilian population of Lebanon? I mean, you seem to think causing untold death and destruction by invasion is somehow more superior to immigrating and starting riots. BTW, aren't you planning to immigrate? Will you be starting any riots?
Israel has invaded Lebanon twice, both times Lebanon was an economic powerhouse, the Swiss of the ME, making Israel look tawdry.
Americans and Israelis don't immigrate to other countries and start riots.
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#25. To: robin (#24)
I mean, you seem to think causing untold death and destruction by invasion is somehow more superior to immigrating and starting riots. Superior? No, I never said superior. You seem to equate the violent and intolerant actions of Muslims world wide with the conflict between Israel and the extremists in Lebanon. I see that as apples and oranges. You're just looking for a reason to lump Israel in with the wacko Muslims who cause trouble virtually everywhere they go. You're trying to change the subject away from the bad behavior of Muslims in France and elsewhere. I'm not buying it.
So why haven't you addressed Israel's invasion TWICE of the NOT backward Lebanon; where IDF illegally used white phosphorus and cluster bombs against the NOT backward and INNOCENT civilian population of Lebanon?
#26. To: Mister Clean (#23)
That's totally inaccurate. There was an abundance of doctors, teachers and scientists in Iraq, even under the evil Saddam. When a nation is in the chaos of war a lot of what were minor differences can take on temporary significance. It did not help that these differences were used and made larger by the typical "divide and conquer" strategy. Now what were these BlackOps up to? And no Muslim would destroy a mosque. How many times did this happen, and there was no camera to capture the moment? Agent Provocateurs?Iraq needed a dictator to keep order because the nation is filled with tribalist and religious fanatics, not exactly the best example of modernity.
UK Soldiers Dressed as Iraqis Killing Local Police
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#27. To: Mister Clean (#25)
You were disparaging of a people who immigrate, saying that the US and Israel don't immigrate and start riots. I said there would not be as many Muslims in EU had the ME not become so impossible to live in since 1947. I pointed out that the US and Israel just INVADE and DESTROY, (something much worse than immigrating and rioting). You don't seem to object to this behavior, but find people immigrating and rioting something to complain about!
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#28. To: robin (#26)
That's totally inaccurate. There was an abundance of doctors, teachers and scientists in Iraq, even under the evil Saddam. So? The presence of doctors and scientists doen't mean there are no fanatics. When a nation is in the chaos of war a lot of what were minor differences can take on temporary significance. It did not help that these differences were used and made larger by the typical "divide and conquer" strategy. Now what were these BlackOps up to? Where is the evidence that the sectarian violence is the result of BlackOps? Where is the proof? Again, there are lots of conspiracy theories and there's lot's of speculation but there's no proof that BlackOps are responsible for violence between Shia and Sunni.
#29. To: robin (#27)
You were disparaging of a people who immigrate, saying that the US and Israel don't immigrate and start riots. I'm disparaging of people who engage in violence like what we see in France. I said there would not be as many Muslims in EU had the ME not become so impossible to live in since 1947. That's pure speculation on your part. You just want to blame the West for all the ills of the Middle East. That's really a contemptuous attitude toward Muslims because you're basically saying they have no self control, their behavior is determined by Western powers. Again, the West isn't responsible for things like the recent punishment that the Saudis inflicted on a rape victim. Why don't you try to defend that? I pointed out that the US and Israel just INVADE and DESTROY, (something much worse than immigrating and rioting). Again, apples and oranges. You don't seem to object to this behavior, but find people immigrating and rioting something to complain about! Well, the article of the thread is about Muslim immigrants who riot. But you want to change the subject. I don't.
#30. To: Mister Clean (#28)
There were various religious sects, but they were not in charge. Now they are part of the running of Iraq. Congratulations! British soldiers dressed as Arabs with a carload of bombs and weapons, trying to break down a local, legitimate Iraqi police station is not proof that there are Black Ops trying to increase the violence (sectarian or otherwise) in Iraq?!?! And Israel's invasions of Lebanon have resulted in a stronger presence of fanatics as well. When will they learn? Or is this the desired result, for an excuse for further violence against Lebanon? Why are we in the ME preemptively invading and killing innocent civilians? Smirk has admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, that there were no WMDs. Why are we still there? Millions of Iraqi refugees have left Iraq for EU and neighboring nations. Is an empty Iraq the goal? For whom? Who benefits? But all you do is complain that Muslim immigrants in France are causing riots.
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#31. To: Mister Clean (#29) (Edited)
You fail to see the connection?! As I pointed out now more than once, many of the Muslims in EU would still be happy at home in the ME, were it not for the fact that Israel and the US have destroyed their homes!
Well, the article of the thread is about Muslim immigrants who riot. But you want to change the subject. I don't.
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#32. To: robin (#31)
That's your extremely simplistic theory. I don't buy it given the trouble found pretty much everywhere large numbers of Muslims are found. Did the Muslim murder Theo Van Gogh because Israel attacked Lebanon? How about the Muslims in Sudan who want that teacher executed. Are they calling for her blood because of Israel? Your theory doesn't hold up.
As I pointed out now more than once, many of the Muslims in EU would still be happy at home in the ME, were it not for the fact that Israel and the US have made destroyed their homes!
#33. To: Mister Clean (#32)
I did not say all of the Muslims in EU are refugees from Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. The foreign worker program after the destruction of WWII is what first opened the door into EU. Similar to the foreign worker program the US has, except we don't need them; we have high unemployment even among the college educated, including among engineering and computer science grads. The anger of the Muslim community in the EU is fueled by the way the Israel treats the Palestinians and by the preemptive invasions into Iraq and Lebanon by the US and Israel.
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#34. To: robin (#33)
So Muslims in France are rioting because of Israel. How ridiculous. You should convert to Islam since all you want to do is blame Israel for the bad behavior of Muslims. You'd fit right in.
The anger of the Muslim community in the EU is fueled by the way the Israel treats the Palestinians and by the preemptive invasions into Iraq and Lebanon by the US and Israel.
#35. To: Mister Clean (#34)
The Muslims in France and other places are very angry at the treatment of the Palestinians by Israel. Don't you recall that this was among OBL's original complaints? "You see what Ariel Sharon is doing in Palestine, you see the Israeli tanks in the streets there destroying everything," says 16-year-old Karim, who was born in the projects to Algerian immigrant parents. "This (attack on the Jewish soccer players) was like supporting the Palestinians," he says. "Beating people up is not right, but at the same time...." www.iht.com/articles/2006/10/13/opinion/edgerges.php "Look at what America is doing in Iraq," said Hazem Salem, an Egyptian human-rights advocate in his twenties. "America is using democracy as a mask to colonize Muslim lands and to steal our oil." I reminded him that President George W. Bush claims he is promoting democracy in the Arab world. "No, he is promoting chaos and civil war," he fired back. When I visited the American University in Cairo, which is a stronghold of Western liberalism, many students were openly angry at America's support for Israel. "Bush has given Israel carte blanche to attack Palestinians and Lebanese," Rania, a teenager with strikingly dark eyes, told me in the campus courtyard. "The war on terror is an open-ended war on Muslims," she insisted. Many students at the American University in Beirut expressed similar views. We have more enemies now because of our support of Israel, than in any time in our history.
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#36. To: Horse (#0)
How nice it would be to live in a country that is "stunned" by riots with zero deaths or murders and terms such as "savagery".
France stunned by rioters’ savagery
#37. To: Critter (#1)
hmmmmm... Primitive - but effective. Also useful is a home-made "Claymore". They're real easy to make with off the shelf components e.g., Elmer's Glue, cardboard, BB's, Smokeless Powder, and a simple detonator. I'm sure there are hundreds to thousands of people who have the know-how to put them together. It can be done with home-made black powder as well - just a little bulkier. Very effective at discouraging JBT's. When all else fails vote from the rooftops.
shells packed with nails that were fired from a homemade bazooka.
"When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather - not screaming in terror like his passengers." - Unk.
#38. To: robin (#35)
So these low lifes riot in their new home. Model immigrants, eh?
The Muslims in France and other places are very angry at the treatment of the Palestinians by Israel.
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