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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: Firefighters asked to report people who express discontent with the government
Source: rawstory.com
URL Source: http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Homel ... ghters_into_domestic_1129.html
Published: Dec 3, 2007
Author: David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Post Date: 2007-12-03 17:59:28 by TwentyTwelve
Keywords: Firefighters, "first amendment", "Homeland Security"
Views: 541
Comments: 16

Firefighters asked to report people who express discontent with the government

David Edwards and Muriel Kane

Published: Thursday November 29, 2007

It was revealed last week that firefighters are being trained to not only keep an eye out for illegal materials in the course of their duties, but even to report back any expression of discontent with the government.

A year ago, Homeland Security gave security clearances to nine New York City fire chiefs and began sharing intelligence with them. Even before that, fire department personnel were being taught "to identify material or behavior that may indicate terrorist activities" and were also "told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States."

Unlike law enforcement officials, firemen can go onto private property without a warrant, not only while fighting fires but also for inspections. "It's the evolution of the fire service," said a Phoenix, AZ fire chief of his information-sharing arrangement with law enforcement.

Keith Olbermann raised the alarm about the program on his show Wednesday, noting that "if the information-sharing program works in New York, the department says it will extend it to other major metropolitan areas, unless we stop them." He then asked Mike German, a former FBI agent who is now with the ACLU, "This program seems to be turning [firefighters], essentially, into legally protected domestic spies, does it not?"

"That's the entire intent," German replied, noting the serious legal issues involved. "There is actually still a fourth amendment," he pointed out, "and what makes a firefighter's search reasonable is that it's done to prevent a fire. If now firefighters are going in with this secondary purpose, that end run around the fourth amendment won't work, and it's likely that they will find themselves in legal trouble."

Olbermann, however, was most strongly concerned about the implications for civil liberties. "Is what disturbs you and the ACLU the same thing that just jumped off the page for me?" he asked. "That one phrase, 'look for people who are expressing hatred of or discontent with the United States?' Discontent?"

German agreed that there are serious first amendment issues raised by the focus of the program on constitutionally-protected literature, such as books that might be considered "terrorist propaganda."

Olbermann asked in conclusion whether firefighters could be used under this program to plant evidence. German agreed that the way it is defined "really plays to people's prejudices and gives them the opportunity to do damage to someone."

This video is from MSNBC's Countdown, broadcast on November 28, 2007.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 11.

#5. To: TwentyTwelve (#0)

This is one reason I'm against national healthcare. I feel it would only be a matter of time before such a system would be abused by drug war zealots.

Dakmar  posted on  2007-12-03   18:57:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Dakmar (#5)

We already are Dak. I was asked a while back by my primary if I had any guns in my house. I refused to answer until she told me where this information would end up. Since she was a nice person, she stopped the questions and we both had a laugh. I then left her office with a bevy of scripts for imaginary pain and feigned sleeplessness.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2007-12-03   19:05:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Jethro Tull (#7)

I was asked a while back by my primary if I had any guns in my house.

On of the speakers at SAF conference was discussing this very issue. It occurred to me right then and there that were I ever asked such a thing by a physician in my employ, I would affect my best stoner persona (see Jason Mewes) and say something along the lines of "Hells yes, about fifty of them."

Dakmar  posted on  2007-12-03   19:16:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Dakmar (#8)

"Hells yes, about fifty of them."

Only 50? What are you, a Commie?...LOLOLOL

Refinersfire  posted on  2007-12-03   19:18:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Refinersfire, Jethro Tull (#10)

Snappy Comeback #2:

"Yeah, you lookin' to buy?"

Dakmar  posted on  2007-12-03   19:52:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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