See other Religion Articles
Title: Americans believe in God -- and hell, UFOs, witches, astrology: poll (and miracles - we could use one)
Source:
Raw Story
URL Source: http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Americ ... n_God_and_hell_U_12042007.html
Published: Dec 4, 2007
Author: AFP
Post Date: 2007-12-04 17:15:46 by robin
Keywords: None
Views: 1530
Comments: 110
An overwhelming majority of Americans believe in God and signicant numbers also think that UFOs, the devil and ghosts exist, a poll showed Tuesday. The survey by Harris Online showed that 82 percent of adult Americans believe in God and a slightly smaller percentage -- 79 percent -- believe in miracles. More than 70 percent of the 2,455 adults surveyed between November 7 and 13 said they believe in heaven and angels, while more than six in 10 said they believed in hell and the devil. Almost equal numbers said they believe in Darwin's theory of evolution (42 percent) -- the belief that populations evolve over time through natural selection -- and creationism (39 percent) -- the theory that God created mankind. Seventy percent of Americans said they were very (21 percent) or somewhat (49 percent) religious, while around one-third of those polled also said they believe in UFOs, witches and astrology.
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-15) not displayed.
.
.
.
#16. To: Alan Chapman (#1)
Oh yeah, like he is a real credible "skeptic". Get back to me when he does some real scientific research on 911.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
I read the article. Unfortunately, most of it consists of accusations of a conspiracy rather than a presentation of scientific evidence. The contention revolves around something called the Mars Effect. Advocates of the Mars Effect make the common mistake of concluding that two events that occur together share a causal relation. I could point out that there is more traffic on the roads when the sun occupies certain positions in the sky, but the events aren't causally related. It's just a coincidence. It's quite possible that countless other coincidences could be mistakenly attributed to the Mars Effect. For example, suppose it was shown that there is an increase in the number of pizza deliveries when Mars occupies certain sectors.
More people attend government schools in Europe than in the US, but you don't have hoardes of Bible thumping religious nuts, UFOlogists, and cult members in Europe that you get around here. I think that religion and superstition has always been a big part of American culture, even back in the days when there weren't any government schools.
I think we all know that corellation does not equal causation. To prove causation, we must conduct an experiment and force babies born during those times and control times to become famous athletes, then see which group was more successful in achieving that end. But you asked for an example of statistically significant astrology, so I sent you that. Doubtless you can find the original articles online, but it's probably a lot easier just to dismiss the thing out of hand as "coincidence".
Shut your whore mouth, Mr. President.
I Googled "Mars Effect" after I read the article and didn't find any substantiation, only regurgitation of the original claims and refutation. In order to prove causation it would be necessary to isolate the subjects from countless other potential causal factors which is logistically impossible. What happened is essentially this: somebody observed two events occurring together and concluded that they were causally related. That isn't how science is done. People are, by nature, pattern-seeking animals and the more familiar the pattern the more frequent the recognition. Sightings of Jesus in tree trunks, burnt toast, mortar, etc. are good examples. A person could spend a lifetime charting planets, moons, comets, and asteroids and find all kinds of coincidences which appear to be causalities. Why would a person want to squander his efforts on such foolishness when he could be working on something substantive and legitimate?
I am short on time at the moment so I don't have time for a detailed deconstruction but note the following: By conflating all of these together it is an assertion of equivalence i.e., that UFOs=Witches=Astrology. When you see that kind of false reasoning you can know that the author is dishonest or is working PsyOps. Which of those has a substantial body of objective evidence and credible witnesses? UFOs. Which of those has the government consistently attacked via derision and their various operatives such as Michael Schermer? UFOs. Why? Because it is a world view shifting datum which holds the potential to upset the 1984 society that is being built. The "Septics" Society and others of their ilk, such as the less than amazing Randi, have over and over again been shown to lie, use strawmen, and character assassination to advance their agenda of defending the official paradigm.
"When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather - not screaming in terror like his passengers." - Unk.
Why? Because it is a world view shifting datum which holds the potential to upset the 1984 society that is being built. Here's one of the reports from the 50's that I find especially interesting.. Is that like me and my neighbor talking over the fence and he asks "Is that the 577 from Phoenix?" referring to blinking object moving through sky and I tell him I don't know? What do you suppose these things are Dak? The "Skeptics" Society and others of their ilk are part of the consensus. Consensus is where scoundrels hide and skulduggery is king. Consensus is not science, and science is not consensus.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
There isn't a shred of evidence of visitation by aliens in flying saucers. Even with the proliferation of billions of cameras, camera phones, and video cameras there still isn't any compelling evidence. All of those old b/w photos of flying saucers are nothing but people tossing pie pans and hub caps into the air. Witnesses are always referred to as credible. They're often unsure of what they've seen. Many have conflicting testimony. Michael Shermer is a government operative? That's laughable. He and Randi have done outstanding work exposing charlatans and quacks. I especially like the way Randi exposed Uri Geller, Peter Popoff, and James Hydrick (who later confessed to being a fraud).
Post 23 too far down the thread for you to see? It might pop your little bubble Alan, so proceed with caution if you dare.
In fact Alan, take a peek at post 22 while you're at it...
You seem like a fairly bright guy Alan, so why can't you understand there's something more than pot covers flying around? We are but one planet of a solar system of eight others. Our solar system is but one of billions of others in this galaxy, and our galaxy is but one of billions of others in THIS universe alone. It is ridiculous to think we are the only ones. Do you think pie plates flew over Washington DC (repeatedly) in 1952? Or that thousands (over 500) of them flew over Farmington, NM, in 1950? Is this a pie plate or pot lid too Alan? Here's another interesting "pie plate" for you to watch.. Is this little guy a pie maker Alan? On June 24, 1947, Kenneth Arnold claimed that he'd seen nine "crescent shaped" aircraft near Mount Rainier. He said they reminded him of saucers skimming over water. An editor of the Eastern Oregonian reported that Arnold saw "round" objects. Other reports noted "disc-shaped" objects. Within a few weeks, there were hundreds of reports nationwide of sightings of flying "saucers." It's interesting how sightings become contagious. The U.S. military built and tested many flying wings during the 1940s. Here's the Northrop N-1M. It's maiden flight was in 1941. The Germans also built flying wings. Where do people know about flying saucers? Why were there a bunch of flying saucer and alien invasion movies made in the 1950s? Science-fiction magazines from the 1920s: Orson Welles' 1938 radio broadcast of War of the Worlds
This one is computer generated. I've seen it before. There are several on YouTube. The b/w is far too fuzzy to make out anything.
Please don't resort to ridiculous swamp gas explanations to explain the 1952 Washington DC sightings (visual AND radar), or the 1950 Farmington mass sighting. The aerial characteristics and flight performance of the objects in those cases are way beyond anything yet produced, so get off the "we had cresent shaped aircraft" kick. In regards to the two videos I posted (post 29 & post 30), are those Northrop N- 1M aircraft being imagined as flying saucers from Mars due to a radio broadcast in 1938?
Not if you watch the entire video.
Concerning the craft flying over the lake, it does APPEAR to be fake, but with the camera moving, going out of focus in parts, and zooming in, it'd have to be one HELL of a computer in order to generate a moving object that stays in perspective throughout the video..
You still have no explanation for the 1952 Washington DC sightings or the 1950 Farmington, NM sighting.
Let me guess, you're going to try to tell me these are migrating birds, right? Right! Or swamp gas. Or the witnesses were all drunk.
Shut your whore mouth, Mr. President.
Looks like the US Army needed some target practice back 1942, since they couldn't knock out of the sky whatever it was that hovered over LA for hours early one February morning.. Or it was the planet Venus, it was a secret US aircraft, it was a weather balloon, etc., etc., etc. ....
I don't know what Farmington residents saw and they apparently don't either. The article says, "Estimates of the number ranged from several to more that 500." It says that 3 people called the newspaper but hundreds were seen in the streets looking skyward. I think only a small handful of people saw "something" and the rest came out to see what the excitement was all about. Soon, everybody was seeing something. It's really no difference than a mass of people all claiming to see a ghost. The video of lights over the capitol isn't evidence of anything except lights over the capitol. Bolling AFB (built 1918) and Reagan National Airport (formerly Washington National Airport, built 1941) are both in the direction in which the lights are moving. They're moving at speed consistent with aircraft and in formation. They also appear to be turning as you can see the top row of lights moving forward in relation to the lights on the bottom.
So US Air Force interceptors didn't know what they were chasing, and three different radar sites didn't know the difference between aircraft in a normal flight pattern and unknowns, eh?
BTW, here's a bit more on 1952 sightings..
Battle of Los Angeles It appears that they may have been firing at nothing at all but they managed to kill several civilians.
You're now trying to twist the story to make it into something more comfortable for you. Here's what the article stated; Clayton J. Boddy, 32, business manager of Farmington Times and a former Army Engineers captain in Italy, was one of those who saw the startling objects. Boddy was on roadway when all of a sudden I noticed a few moving objects high in the sky. "Moments later there appeared what seemed to be about 500 of them," Boddy continued. He could not estimate their size or speed, but said they appeared to be about 15,000 feet high. Boddy's account was confirmed by Joseph C. and Francis C. Kelloff, retail grocers from Antonito, Colo., who were in Farmington to inspect the site of a proposed new store, and by Bob Foutz and John Burrell of Farmington. The Kelloffs said the objects appeared to be flying in formation. One of the most impressive accounts came from Harold F. Thatcher, head of the Farmington unit of the Soil Conservation service. Thatcher made a triangulation on one of a number of flying craft, He said if it had been a B-29 it would have been 2,000 feet high and traveling more than 1000 miles per hour. John Bloomfield, another employee of Smoak's garage, said the objects he saw traveled at a speed that appeared to him to be about 10 times faster than that of jet planes. In addition, he said the objects frequently made right-angle turns. "They appeared to be coming at each other head-on," he related. "At the last second, one would veer at right angles upward, the other at right angles downward. One saucer would pass another and immediately the one to the rear would zoom into the lead." Marlow Webb, another garage employee, said the objects to the naked eye appeared to be about eight inches in diameter as seen from the ground. He described them as about the size of a dinner plate." "They flew sideways, on edge and at every conceivable angle," he said. "This is what made it easy to determine that they were saucer-shaped." None of the scores of reports told of any vapor trail or engine noise. Nor did anyone report any windows or other markings on the craft. Film crew lights bouncing off reflecting pool and onto clouds?
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
If they couldn't bring down even one of the "slow moving aircraft" with the barrage of anti-aircraft rounds fired that night, it's a good thing Japan never tried to attack the West Coast... Hmmm. Did you read the articles in my post? Three different Washington radars picked up the objects, and jet interceptors were scrambled. This occured on MULTIPLE occasions in July of 1952 over restricted airspace in Washington DC. Even Truman's staff saw the objects.
I did read it, but I don't trust anything I see or read on the internet. Or see on TV or read in books, for that matter. I've decided to write a book on dialectic geometry.
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
Uh huh.
Birds are precisely what those are, and birds are probably what the folks in Farmington saw. The behavior they witnessed perfectly describes bird behavior.
Birds are precisely what those are Hmmm, round birds without wings that glow and dart around at approximately 10,000 feet. Yep. , and birds are probably what the folks in Farmington saw. The behavior they witnessed perfectly describes bird behavior. According to witnesses, the saucer shaped objects moved at 1000 mph and in right angles, with several apparently engaged in what seemed like a "dog fight". Yeah, birds. Uh huh.
BTW, it's good to know a bit about what you're all about Alan. I'll take what you say with a few grains of salt from now on...
You can tell the altitude of those birds just from watching the video? They look round for several reasons. They're far away and each one takes up only a few pixels in the image. They blur and smear when he zooms in. If you understand the way digital compression works, adjacent pixels are averaged to give a smoother picture and reduce pixelation. It's called anti-aliasing. They're not perfectly spherical. If you look closely you can see that they have greater width than height. They didn't look to me like they were glowing. They looked white like seagulls. According to witnesses, the saucer shaped objects moved at 1000 mph and in right angles, with several apparently engaged in what seemed like a "dog fight". When viewed from the ground, birds may appear to be moving at high speed when passing in front of clouds. Move your hand quickly in front of your face while looking at something in the distance. Wow, your hand must've moved at thousands of miles per hour! Birds can make high speed turns which might look like right angles. They can also ascend very quickly when entering columns of warm air. I think the Farmington residents had too much to drink and took a little creative license when telling their story. You know, the one that got away is always ten times bigger in the imagination than it is in reality.
I think your head is up in the clouds. And I see you're resorting to the "they were drunk" comments. How original. Yeah, the whole town was cocked and thought they saw saucer shaped craft performing instantaneous 90 degree manuevers while flying at extremely high speeds, where it was really just a bunch of birds. I'm GW Bush, but don't tell anyone, as they might be drunk and think I'm Dick Cheney.
Comments (57 - 110) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest.....Michael Shermer of the Skeptic....
#17. To: Indrid Cold (#9)
#18. To: Alan Chapman (#1)
The predilection toward belief in nonsense owes a great deal to both government schools and the church. Neither (especially the church) encourages critical thinking and analysis.
#19. To: Alan Chapman (#17)
Advocates of the Mars Effect make the common mistake of concluding that two events that occur together share a causal relation.
#20. To: Indrid Cold (#19)
#21. To: robin, Alan Chapman, TwentyTwelve, all (#0)
"...while around one-third of those polled also said they believe in UFOs, witches and astrology."
#22. To: Original_Intent (#21)
Which of those has the government consistently attacked via derision and their various operatives such as Michael Schermer? UFOs.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#23. To: Dakmar (#10)
UFO's?
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#24. To: Original_Intent (#21)
#25. To: Original_Intent (#21)
#26. To: Alan Chapman (#25)
There isn't a shred of evidence of visitation by aliens in flying saucers. Even with the proliferation of billions of cameras, camera phones, and video cameras there still isn't any compelling evidence. All of those old b/w photos of flying saucers are nothing but people tossing pie pans and hub caps into the air.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#27. To: Alan Chapman, Original_Intent (#25)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#28. To: FormerLurker (#27)
#29. To: Alan Chapman (#28)
(Edited)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#30. To: Alan Chapman (#28)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#31. To: Alan Chapman (#28)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#32. To: FormerLurker (#27)
#33. To: FormerLurker (#30)
#34. To: Alan Chapman (#32)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#35. To: Alan Chapman (#33)
The b/w is far too fuzzy to make out anything.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#36. To: Alan Chapman (#33)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#37. To: Alan Chapman (#33)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#38. To: Alan Chapman (#32)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#39. To: FormerLurker (#38)
Let me guess, you're going to try to tell me these are migrating birds, right?
#40. To: Alan Chapman (#32)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#41. To: Indrid Cold (#39)
Right! Or swamp gas. Or the witnesses were all drunk.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#42. To: FormerLurker (#34)
#43. To: Alan Chapman (#42)
The video of lights over the capitol isn't evidence of anything except lights over the capitol. Bolling AFB (built 1918) and Reagan National Airport (formerly Washington National Airport, built 1941) are both in the direction in which the lights are moving. They're moving at speed consistent with aircraft and in formation. They also appear to be turning as you can see the top row of lights moving forward in relation to the lights on the bottom.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#44. To: Alan Chapman (#42)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#45. To: FormerLurker (#40)
#46. To: Alan Chapman (#42)
(Edited)
I think only a small handful of people saw "something" and the rest came out to see what the excitement was all about. Soon, everybody was seeing something. It's really no difference than a mass of people all claiming to see a ghost.
Fully half of this town's population still is certain today that it saw space ships or some strange aircraft -- hundreds of them zooming through the skies yesterday. Estimates of the number ranged from several to more that 500. Whatever they were, they caused a major sensation in this community, which lies only 110 air miles northwest of the huge Los Alamos Atomic installation.
Scores described the objects as silvery discs. A number agreed they saw one that was red in color -- bigger and faster, and apparently the leader.
Brooks, a B-29 tail gunner during the war, said he was positive the objects sighted were not airplanes. "The very maneuvering of the things couldn't be that of modern aircraft," he said.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#47. To: FormerLurker (#23)
What do you suppose these things are Dak?
#48. To: Alan Chapman (#45)
Battle of Los Angeles It appears that they may have been firing at nothing at all but they managed to kill several civilians.
Editor Peter Jenkins of the Los Angeles Herald Examiner reported, "I could clearly see the V formation of about 25 silvery planes overhead moving slowly across the sky toward Long Beach." Long Beach Police Chief J.H. McClelland said [4] "I watched what was described as the second wave of planes from atop the seven-story Long Beach City Hall. I did not see any planes but the younger men with me said they could. An experienced Navy observer with powerful Carl Zeiss binoculars said he counted nine planes in the cone of the searchlight. He said they were silver in color. The group passed along from one battery of searchlights to another, and under fire from the anti-aircraft guns, flew from the direction of Redondo Beach and Inglewood on the land side of Fort MacArthur, and continued toward Santa Ana and Huntington Beach. Anti-aircraft fire was so heavy we could not hear the motors of the planes."[5]
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#49. To: Dakmar (#47)
Film crew lights bouncing off reflecting pool and onto clouds?
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#50. To: FormerLurker (#49)
#51. To: Dakmar (#50)
I did read it, but I don't trust anything I see or read on the internet. Or see on TV or read in books, for that matter. I've decided to write a book on dialectic geometry.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#52. To: FormerLurker (#38)
#53. To: Alan Chapman (#52)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#54. To: Alan Chapman (#52)
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#55. To: FormerLurker (#53)
#56. To: Alan Chapman (#55)
(Edited)
When viewed from the ground, birds may appear to be moving at high speed when passing in front of clouds.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
.
.
.