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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Is our government legitimate?
Source: AmeroCurrency.com
URL Source: http://amerocurrency.com/conspiracy ... rnment/usvsusa/usgovlegit.html
Published: Dec 6, 2007
Author: Laurence M. Vance
Post Date: 2007-12-06 09:55:16 by richard9151
Keywords: None
Views: 178
Comments: 8

Buried in section 111 of Title I, "Miscellaneous Provisions and Offsets," of Division J, "Other Matters," in H.R. 4818, "Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2005," which became Public Law 108-447 on December 8, 2004, is the congressional decree that redesignates September 17th as Constitution Day and Citizenship Day instead of what was just Citizenship Day.

This law requires the head of each federal agency or department to provide:

- each new employee of the agency or department with educational and training materials concerning the U.S. Constitution as part of the orientation materials provided the new employee; and - educational and training materials concerning the U.S. Constitution to each of its employees on September 17 of each year.

It also stipulates that "each educational institution that receives Federal funds for a fiscal year to hold an educational program on the U.S. Constitution on September 17 of such year for its students."

September 17th was so designated because it is the anniversary of the signing of the U.S. Constitution in 1787. In fact, this year is somewhat special because it is the 220th anniversary of that event. But what if, instead of being a cause for celebration, the adoption of the Constitution was "the most successful fraud in American history"?

The question, then, is a simple one: Is our government legitimate? I am not asking whether the U.S. government in its current state is legitimate based on its adherence to the Constitution. That it is not legitimate in that respect is obvious since the current government is about as far removed from the Constitution as it could ever be and still claim to be the government of a constitutional republic.

The Constitution was written by the delegates from twelve states to the Philadelphia Convention, which met from May 25 to September 17, 1787. It was debated and refined by some of the greatest political minds of the day. Some of the delegates had been members of Congress, some had written state constitutions, some had been state governors, and a few had even signed the Declaration of Independence or the Articles of Confederation. Three members of Convention were current members of Congress, including James Madison.

Correct, but is our government legitimate?

The Constitution was sent to the states for ratification on September 28, 1787. On December 7, 1787, Delaware became the first state to ratify the Constitution. The ninth state needed for ratification was obtained on June 21, 1788, when New Hampshire ratified.

Yes, but is our government legitimate?

After Virginia (on June 25, 1788) and New York (on July 26, 1788) ratified the Constitution, the Confederation Congress passed a resolution on September 13, 1788, to put the new Constitution into effect. The operation of the new government under the Constitution began on March 4, 1789.

All true, but is our government legitimate?

In a speech before the Virginia ratifying convention on June 5, 1788, Patrick Henry, asked basically the same thing: "Had the delegates who were sent to Philadelphia a power to propose a Consolidated Government instead of a Confederacy?"

The United States were at this time under the Articles of Confederation. According to Article XIII, no alteration could be made to any of the Articles "unless such alteration be agreed to in a Congress of the United States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State."

Because of the perceived "weaknesses" of the Articles, especially regarding trade and commerce, there assembled in September of 1786 delegates from New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Virginia at Annapolis, Maryland. The delegates to the Annapolis Convention reported that

the States of New York, Pennsylvania, and Virginia, had, in substance, and nearly in the same terms, authorised their respective Commissioners "to meet such Commissioners as were, or might be, appointed by the other States in the Union, at such time and place, as should be agreed upon by the said Commissioners to take into consideration the trade and Commerce of the United States, to consider how far an uniform system in their commercial intercourse and regulations might be necessary to their common interest and permanent harmony, and to report to the several States such an Act, relative to this great object, as when unanimously ratified by them would enable the United States in Congress assembled effectually to provide for the same."

But because not all of the states were represented (New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and North Carolina appointed delegates but they never attended; Connecticut, Maryland, South Carolina, and Georgia didn’t appoint anyone), the "Commissioners did not conceive it advisable to proceed on the business of their mission, under the Circumstance of so partial and defective a representation."

It was then decided that an "appointment of Commissioners" should meet in Philadelphia the next year

to take into consideration the situation of the United States, to devise such further provisions as shall appear to them necessary to render the constitution of the Federal Government adequate to the exigencies of the Union; and to report such an Act for that purpose to the United States in Congress assembled, as when agreed to, by them, and afterwards confirmed by the Legislatures of every State, will effectually provide for the same.

It was resolved by Congress on February 21, 1787, that

it is expedient that on the second Monday in May next a Convention of delegates who shall have been appointed by the several states be held at Philadelphia for the sole and express purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation and reporting to Congress and the several legislatures such alterations and provisions therein as shall when agreed to in Congress and confirmed by the states render the federal constitution adequate to the exigencies of Government & the preservation of the Union.

The purpose of the Philadelphia Convention, according to the Congress of the United States at the time, was "for the sole and express purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation," not for writing a new Constitution.

The Anti-Federalists who opposed the Constitution recognized this. This is not the first or the second time that they were right.

"Centinel," who termed the Convention delegates "conspirators" and their work "criminality," wrote in his third letter published in Philadelphia’s Independent Gazetteer on November 8, 1787:

A comparison of the authority under which the convention acted, and their form of government will shew that they have despised their delegated power, and assumed sovereignty; that they have entirely annihilated the old confederation, and the particular governments of the several states, and instead thereof have established one general government that is to pervade the union; constituted on the most unequal principles, destitute of accountability to its constituents, and as despotic in its nature, as the Venetian aristocracy.

The "Federal Farmer" wrote for the Poughkeepsie Country Journal in 1787. He described the Convention in his first letter:

September, 1786, a few men from the middle states met at Annapolis, and hastily proposed a convention to be held in May, 1787, for the purpose, generally, of amending the confederation – this was done before the delegates of Massachusetts, and of the other states arrived – still not a word was said about destroying the old constitution, and making a new one – The states still unsuspecting, and not aware that they were passing the Rubicon, appointed members to the new convention, for the sole and express purpose of revising and amending the confederation – and, probably, not one man in ten thousand in the United States, till within these ten or twelve days, had an idea that the old ship was to be destroyed.

"Old Whig" wrote for Philadelphia’s Independent Gazetteer in late 1787 and early 1788. He brought up the Convention in his seventh essay:

The late convention were chosen by the general assembly of each state; they had the sanction of Congress; – for what? To consider what alterations were necessary to be made in the articles of confederation. What have they done? They have made a new constitution for the United States. I will not say, that in doing so, they have exceeded their authority; but on the other hand, I trust that no man of understanding amongst them will pretend to say, that any thing they did or could do, was of the least avail to lessen the rights of the people to judge for themselves in the last resort. This right, is perhaps, unalienable, but at all events, there is no pretense for saying that this right was ever meant to be surrendered up into the hands of the late continental convention.

The essays of an Anti-Federalist who wrote under the name of "John DeWitt" were published in the Boston American Herald in late 1787. He spoke of the Convention in his fourth essay:

And do you discover a desire in those who wish you to embrace this Government, to inform you of its principles, and the consequences which will probably ensue from such principles – why they have taken from you the sinews of your present government, and instead of revising and amending your Confederation; have handed you a new one, contrasted in the plenitude of its powers.

The dissenters in the Pennsylvania ratification convention who published The Address and Reasons of Dissent of the Minority of the Convention of Pennsylvania to Their Constituents in the Pennsylvania Packet and Daily Advertiser on December 18, 1787, said about the Convention:

The Continental convention met in the city of Philadelphia at the time appointed. It was composed of some men of excellent characters; of others who were more remarkable for their ambition and cunning, than their patriotism; and of some who had been opponents to the independence of the United States. The delegates from Pennsylvania were, six of them, uniform and decided opponents to the constitution of this commonwealth. The convention sat upwards of four months. The doors were kept shut, and the members brought under the most solemn engagements of secrecy. Some of those who opposed their going so far beyond their powers, retired, hopeless, from the convention others had the firmness to refuse signing the plan altogether, and many who did sign it, did it not as a system they wholly approved, but as the best that could be then obtained, and notwithstanding the time spent on this subject, it is agreed on all hands to be a work of haste and accommodation.

But it was not just the convention that gave us the national Constitution that the dissenters in the Pennsylvania ratification convention had a problem with, it was with their own state’s ratification convention as well:

The proposed system of government for the United States, if adopted, will alter and may annihilate the constitution of Pennsylvania; and therefore the legislature had no authority whatever to recommend the calling a convention for that purpose. This proceeding could not be considered as binding on the people of this commonwealth.

The Pennsylvania ratification convention was a convention called by a legislature in direct violation of their duty, and composed in part of members, who were compelled to attend for that purpose, to consider of a constitution proposed by a convention of the United States, who were not appointed for the purpose of framing a new form of government, but whose powers were expressly confined to altering and amending the present articles of confederation. – Therefore the members of the continental convention in proposing the plan acted as individuals, and not as deputies from Pennsylvania. The assembly who called the state convention acted as individuals, and not as the legislature of Pennsylvania; nor could they or the convention chosen on their recommendation have authority to do any act or thing, that can alter or annihilate the constitution of Pennsylvania (both of which will be done by the new constitution) nor are their proceedings in our opinion, at all binding on the people.

The trouble with the corrupt, bloated, intrusive, out-of-control, evil monstrosity known as the federal government did not begin with – as destructive to liberty as they have been – Bush and the Republicans or LBJ and the Great Society or even FDR and the New Deal. We must go back even further than the tremendous increase in the size and scope of the government that we experienced under Wilson and Lincoln to locate where the trouble started. The first step was taken when the Philadelphia Convention was hijacked by those who desired a consolidated government instead of a confederate one.

No, we can’t change history; and yes, I know that the Constitution is accepted as not only legitimate, but authoritative, and binding. But the unpleasant history of the origin of the Constitution should at least help to quash the epidemic of Constitution worship among those who wish to return to its principles.

Although we would certainly be much better off if we returned to the limited government that the Constitution was supposed to set up – and perhaps that is the best we can hope for – it would be better if we could return to the government that the Framers of the Constitution destroyed.

Is our government legitimate? I think the answer is quite obvious.

All quotations from the Anti-federalists are taken from Regnery edition of The Anti- Federalists: Selected Writings and Speeches, edited by Bruce Frohnen. For the education about the Constitution and early American history that you never received in school, I highly recommend two works: The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Constitution, by Kevin Gutzman, and The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History, by Thomas Woods.

September 17, 2007

Laurence M. Vance [send him mail] writes from Pensacola, FL. He is the author of Christianity and War and Other Essays Against the Warfare State. His latest publication is War, Foreign Policy, and the Church.

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#1. To: richard9151 (#0) (Edited)

Although we would certainly be much better off if we returned to the limited government that the Constitution was supposed to set up – and perhaps that is the best we can hope for – it would be better if we could return to the government that the Framers of the Constitution destroyed.

Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I [am] God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen035.html#11

THAT's what they destroyed, us as KINGS: First Charter of Virginia/ http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev005.html#10

The assembly who called the state convention acted as individuals, and not as the legislature of Pennsylvania; nor could they or the convention chosen on their recommendation have authority to do any act or thing, that can alter or annihilate the constitution of Pennsylvania (both of which will be done by the new constitution) nor are their proceedings in our opinion, at all binding on the people.

THE SUPREME COURT AGREES: THE PEOPLE ARE NOT EVEN PARTIES TO THE CONSTITUTION:

"If You Are A Citizen...Are You An Associate Member? By the Informer

The States became the political sub-divisions of Congress who are the Union Leaders. In the capacity of "political subdivisions" they are not sovereign, see Texas v. White 74 US 7 Wall, Lawyers Edition. You, as a natural individual, cannot join the Union of States BUT, you can be a member by association. Enter the term "citizen". I explained this term in my book, "Which One Are You?", but people still do not comprehend because of the lie they have been fed all their lives as being the "truth", that being, they are the citizens of the state. Here it is again with the highlighted words that lock you up to them. Remember, and don't forget it, the definitions are what the definer (Congress) wants them to mean, not what you think or believe it to mean.

CITIZEN. One who, under the Constitution and laws of the United States, or of a particular state, is a member of the political community, owing allegiance and being entitled to the enjoyment of full civil rights. Citizens are members of a political community who, in their associated capacity, have established or submitted themselves to the dominion of a government for the promotion of their general welfare and the protection of their individual as well as their collective rights. Black's 5th Pg. 222 (Cite omitted)

This cannot be any plainer. You, as an associated member of a political State that joined the Union, are now entitled to vote for the Union President, Clinton in this time period, thereby giving up your power of self-government as declared by the Declaration of Independence. You now deny your unalienable rights (notice the definition above does not include any Natural Law unalienable rights given to us by God) for the civil rights the State grants you by their statutes and are bound by and under the quasi-contract (constitution) you are "resident" in, by implied consent. Isn't colorable law neat for them? It has to be implied because neither you nor anybody in any capacity as a de facto government official ever signed the various constitutions in this country. Therefore, can it ever be called a contract? NO!

When I refer to the Constitution, be it State or United States, as a "contract", I mean it to be quasi. Being you submitted yourself, voluntarily, by joyfully doing your duty as a citizen, by registering to vote, to be under the dominion of your union leaders, representatives, you cannot escape anything your straw boss/shop union foreman (representative) does for or against you. He only represents PUBLIC POLICY! You must pay the tax, any tax, and follow all laws they deem is necessary to keep the political corporate institution from collapsing. It's right in the compact,, when you agreed by signing the voter's registration, at Article I, Section 2, Clause 3, or by not voting while claiming "citizenship" by running to "your" representative complaining about this or that. Not to mention any other control by any agency they create, whether it be in their political subdivision or the corporate headquarters located in Washington D.C. ......"

"....All you that call yourselves "citizens" (aka slaves) of the political establishment, State, which is a "District" of the United States having "representatives" that subject you to all their corporate laws, WHY do you COMPLAIN? Citizens can only be expected to comply with what their CEO (master) wants. Wouldn't you rather be a servant of the Almighty and be sovereign unto yourself and be free men and women representing the true Sovereign? Aren't we all stewards of this land given to us by the Almighty, [ www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/1Ch/17/9.html ]

not people posing as government, as dictated by the words of the Almighty and; therefore, would hold land in allodium? Buy "The Big Lie", which was written back in 1993, from the Bulletin if you haven't. It might save you time researching the same material that is now showing up by these other authors. I am supplying the American's Bulletin with the complete Inaugural of Governor Cherry as evidence that words (meanings) are not taken out of context.

In our research I found the statements made by the supreme court in the Padleford case, 14 Ga 437, that ***** people were not parties to the constitution, only the States are and we cannot complain of a constitutional breach......"

http://www.freedomdomain.com/sovereignty/inform04.html

no; according to the Bible, this government is no longer legitimate. it has served its purpose to show us what rejecting God as our king will get us. it has kept us in captivity picking up where the city of london left off to become the hidden hand. [Genesis 15:13-14]. it's time for it to go. i've been screaming about it for years, and called all sorts of nasty names for it. most people refuse to see it or accept it. they'd rather try to patch up the shattered jar.

2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

2Cr 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2Cr 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2Cr/2Cr006.html#17

what a sick joke that they are putting the constitution up on a pedestal when it's DEAD; THEY KILLED IT!!!!

let it and the people of the revived 'whore of babylon' [old jerusalem] it represents be plucked up. Ezekiel 17:1-10/John 15:1/Matthew 15:13....and good riddance.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2007-12-06   12:35:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: richard9151 (#1)

Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I [am] God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen035.html#11

btw, see how true God's word is, even though the government has turned itself on its head, and this no longer applies, the way I see it, since this was in 1839, before "public policy" replaced the original constitution.

[1] See Bank of Augusta v. Earle, 38 U.S. (13 Pet.) 519; 10 L.Ed. 274 (1839), in which the Supreme Court ruled:

"The States between each other are sovereign and independent. They are distinct and separate sovereignties, except so far as they have parted with some of the attributes of sovereignty by the Constitution. They continue to be *** nations, with all their rights, and under all their national obligations, and with all the rights of nations in every particular; except in the surrender by each to the common purposes and objects of the Union, under the Constitution. The rights of each State, when not so yielded up, remain absolute."

famguardian.org/Subjects/...CitizenUnderIRC.htm#_ftn1

richard, i am so sick of these pharisees and their burdens grievous to be borne, i'm sick to my stomach. i want God's law: love Him with all your heart and your soul, and your neighbor as yourself. let the rest of this nonsense be gone. that will require, of course, the separation of the wheat and the tares....the children of the kingdom from the children of wickedness. if we even have to go backwards through the promise, to be a 'company [confederacy] of nations' [states] again, i could handle it....just let this antiChrist central fascist evil dictatorship be gone.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2007-12-06   14:27:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: richard9151 (#0)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2007-12-06   14:50:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: ghostdogtxn (#3)

They still got guns, courtrooms, armies, jails and prisons.

No government will change willingly. And until the people have a clear idea of what was done, and when, nothing will lead them to change, successfully, the fraud that is being/has been/was committed against them.

That is why it is neccessary for us to study and learn, rather than mindlessly pushing some button or marking some sheet in voting for some politician...... who is probably a lawyer anyway.

(Sorry, but I really could not resist.... Really!)

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-12-06   18:26:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#2)

richard, i am so sick of these pharisees and their burdens grievous to be borne,

I know. But you must keep in mind that they are being permitted their time so that we may learn the folly of trying to rule ourselves.

You want to also keep in mind what the future holds for such; nothing. Zilch. Nada. They have sold their all for this little short time they have on this earth. Pretty foolish, but you could never convince them of that.

Just think; what chance would you or I have in convincing Cheney... or BOLTON! ... to repent? Not even God is capable of doing that, so you know what chance we would have. Such is life, and such is their lack of a future as well.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-12-06   18:31:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: richard9151 (#5)

what chance would you or I have in convincing Cheney... or BOLTON! ... to repent? Not even God is capable of doing that, so you know what chance we would have.

oh-oh...i wouldn't say that richard....all things are possible with God....just look what He did with Paul.

i know you're not a proponent of Christmas, but i watched the tree-lighting for a moment last night before i had to run, because i wanted to see what sort of anti-Christ statement bush would make this time. i was VERY surprised to hear come out of his mouth that God came down to earth in the most vulnerable form, as a little child....and know someone wrote it for him, but he confessed it!!!! made me think i should start praying for him to believe it. of course the tree looked like it was red, white, and blue [but my eyes are so bad, i'm not sure...i'll have to see if i can find anything on it]....also made me think they might as well hang eagles all over it. www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Phl/Phl002.html#10

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2007-12-07   10:58:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#6)

oh-oh...i wouldn't say that richard....

My friend, that is why we are told that there are two deaths.... the one to be forever.

Not even God can bring the truly evil to repentance, and this is why He has made 'other' arrangements. Which is something which SHOULD cause everyone to shudder in terror, but does not seem to, the fools!

By the way, you may be interested in the reply I just put up at number 90 in the "Can you trust the Bible?" thread.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-12-07   12:06:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#6)

oh-oh...i wouldn't say that richard....

I really did not reply to this correctly; my apologies.

We were put on this earth for A purpose; and that purpose is His -- not ours.

To serve His Purpose, we must have free will -- or He would not have created us with free will.

Therefore, what is correct is not that He can not bring such to repentance, but that He will not AGAINST THEIR WILL, for that denies His Purpose which requires free will.

Therefore, we can conclude from this that His Purpose REQUIRES those who are willing to obey -- without coercion. Fear is a good motivator, and it is not coercion; and since only the obdeiant will live forever, it is good to fear Him!

Now, as to Xmas -- since you mentioned it -- the first rule is; first, do no harm. And anyone who submits to the celebration of Mammon on December 25th is harming themselves, and everyone who follows their example.

You have been watching the financial news, and you know how bad things are in the US; no jobs, thousands of people close to or losing their homes, what money there is in circulation is drying up -- yet still the fools are celebrating and spending credit they do not have buying foreign-made garbage -- kind of like; don't worry - be happy.

And it says all that needs to be said about the nature of the US government that such things as an Xmas tree is publically displayed.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-12-08   16:18:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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