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Title: MN smoking ban - Friends trying to find a way around it
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Published: Dec 8, 2007
Author: ladybug
Post Date: 2007-12-08 16:22:35 by ladybug
Keywords: None
Views: 284
Comments: 19
I am here visiting friends and family in rural MN. Last October a statewide smoking ban was put in place. There is no longer smoking allowed in ANY public place, the only exception to this is on the reservations, because they are sovereign. I have a dear friend that is in the process of purchasing a little bar in the middle of nowhere. What he would like to know is how he could open it as a private club - for smokers only. As I am back to truck driving over-the-road full time, I have little time to research such things, but thought that some members on here may be able to turn up some wonderful resources. This is truly important to any freedom loving American - the right to choose. Last night I went out to a bar, the temp was 20 below zero WITHOUT windchill. It was a miserable evening, after going outdoors for a smoke, I was frozen, and all I wanted was a hot cup of tea - not another cold beer. Needless to say that liquor stores sales are on the rise, while bars are closing down in record numbers. I look forward to your comments - and pointers, and will immediately forward them on the this future bar owner who really wants to exercise his right to have an establishment where people can be comfortable and have fun.
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#1. To: noone222, innieway, ghostdogtxn, christine, all others interested (#0)
"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"
He CAN open it as a private club, and it CAN be for smokers only, but they'll still have to smoke outside. The MN law is quite sweeping, even the VFW and Legions had to go non-smoking. He might be able to erect some kind of warming room shelter that people can stand in, however. /Minnesotan
Shut your whore mouth, Mr. President.
The law still allows bars to have outdoor smoking patios. A few workplaces, including family farms and the cabs of heavy trucks, are exempt from the ban. Patients in locked psychiatric units and actors in theatrical productions are also allowed to light up. American Indian casinos are not affected by the state law. Most bars and restaurants are expected to embrace the new law. But some opponents who fought hard against the ban could remain defiant. Kenn Rockler of the Tavern League of Minnesota says he's not advocating resistance, but he knows some bars plan to ignore the ban. Rockler says a few owners have said they would rather fight the law than lose the business of smoking customers. "Some of them have taken just a cold hard look at the dollars and cents, and feel they'd be better off paying three $500 fines rather than lose $10,000 of business in a month," Rockler said.
ThanK Goodness for THaT I thought I was goINg To gO Crazy therE foR a MinUte.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition lol - they know better than try and keep we loons away from our smokes - we'd just go Cuckoo's Nest on'em.
The MN law is quite sweeping, even the VFW and Legions had to go non-smoking. He might be able to erect some kind of warming room shelter that people can stand in, however. Yes, I understand that the VFW and the Legion clubs have both been forced to go non smoking as well, but both of those clubs also allow public to use their building. As far as the smoking room/shelter, the law states that it is only allowed %50 walls - not much shelter up here in the frozen north. You would have to think that there is a way for a private group of individuals to form a club/group for smokers only that would be exempt from the ban.
"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"
Open a club, "All the World's A Stage" and have nightly productions featuring all the members doing improv as bar patrons...tell the 'authorities' that they are trying to re-create various bar scenes from times, and films, and TV, gone-by. Hell, a poor excuse, is better than none. I wish your friend the very best of luck with this one. Cheers.
LMAO, I love it!!!
"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"
What we need is bigger government.
If a large group of people formed a corporation purposed to produce and market automobiles (like GM), could they then hire gunmen as salespersons to increase their sales? Well that's exactly what governments do.
I'm sure the private/membership loophole can be exploited. I can't see how a private/membership club wouldn't win in court. It's not public, but I wonder if it wouldn't fall under some type of workplace state regs. That might be the way the state will enforce it.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Don't have employees - have volunteers.
An unorganized (unlicensed) meeting place like Joe Blows house would be exempt, it's just public places, either government or those with DBA's that fall under the law.
If a large group of people formed a corporation purposed to produce and market automobiles (like GM), could they then hire gunmen as salespersons to increase their sales? Well that's exactly what governments do.
Can't he just say it's his home? Put a bed in the corner. "See? I sleep here." Lock the front door, put a peephole in it. Nobody but friends allowed, meaning, of course, no cops.
Fortune favors the prepared mind. A zombie, however, prefers it raw.
It appears that tobacco shops are exempt. Why couldn't he open a "tobacco shop" that also serves alcohol? It would mean an extra license, but hell, he could probably make some profit from smokes sales too... Either that or add on living quarters and move in, forego any license at all, and then claim it's his house (which happens to have a rather large "bar area") and he just has a LOT of friends. As long as there is no proof the "friends" are "paying customers", they couldn't do anything about it. His "friends" would sure owe him a lot of "favors" - which could be worked out privately at any time.
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. On the road to tyranny, we've gone so far that polite political action is about as useless as a miniskirt in a convent. while bars are closing down in record numbers. That was is the unstated true intent behind the backers of these universal smoking bans. It's part of a neo-prohibitionism aimed at blue-collar America.
what a great idea. where there's a will, there's a way, huh?
Don't have much time this instant to read or type, but public and private are two different things. If the ban doesn't apply to one's home, even when guests are present, then surely there's no prohibition on a similar arrangement that likewise is not open to the public. VFW, et al? I don't know their rules but I think they generally rent out their rooms to others so they may not be truly private. I remember doing a bit of legal research on the private club exception. The USSC heard a case of a semi private club in the 60's or 70's that excluded blacks. The long and short of it: If they were truly private, they could do that, but they weren't truly private because of how they were operating so they lost the case. I think opening a private smoking club can work legally. It would just need to be handled correctly so it truly is private. If it's a bit fuzzy between the private/public line, which will be a temptation, then that might hose you. Though I say all that without any idea on what the MN law actually says.
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Check the jurisdiction claimed for the new law. That should indicate the grounds for enforcement, whether workplace safety or public safety. I suspect they claim the latter as the former wouldn't apply in the cases apparently targeted.
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Then have one building open to the public where people buy booze, and another building where no purchases are ever made, and that's the private place where the guests can smoke and drink whatever they've brought in.
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#2. To: ladybug (#0)
What he would like to know is how he could open it as a private club - for smokers only.
#3. To: ladybug (#1)
It doesn't look good for your friend -
#4. To: lodwick (#3)
Patients in locked psychiatric units ....are also allowed to light up
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#5. To: IndieTX (#4)
#6. To: Indrid Cold (#2)
He CAN open it as a private club, and it CAN be for smokers only, but they'll still have to smoke outside.
#7. To: ladybug (#6)
...actors in theatrical productions are also allowed to light up.
#8. To: lodwick (#7)
tell the 'authorities' that they are trying to re-create various bar scenes from times, and films, and TV, gone-by.
#9. To: ladybug (#1)
#10. To: ladybug (#6)
#11. To: Kamala (#10)
It's not public, but I wonder if it wouldn't fall under some type of workplace state regs. That might be the way the state will enforce it.
#12. To: ladybug (#6)
#13. To: ladybug (#0)
#14. To: ladybug (#1)
Claire Wolfe
H. Jackson Brown
#15. To: ladybug (#0)
a little bar in the middle of nowhere.
#16. To: lodwick (#7)
#17. To: Indrid Cold (#2)
He CAN open it as a private club, and it CAN be for smokers only, but they'll still have to smoke outside.
The MN law is quite sweeping, even the VFW and Legions had to go non-smoking.
#18. To: Kamala (#10)
but I wonder if it wouldn't fall under some type of workplace state regs. That might be the way the state will enforce it.
#19. To: noone222 (#12)
An unorganized (unlicensed) meeting place like Joe Blows house would be exempt, it's just public places, either government or those with DBA's that fall under the law.
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