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Title: The CIA's Destroyed Interrogation Tapes and the Saudi-Pakistani 9/11 Connection
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geral ... s-destroyed-inter_b_75850.html
Published: Dec 9, 2007
Author: gerald posner
Post Date: 2007-12-09 09:03:54 by Kamala
Ping List: *9-11*     Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: 911
Views: 149
Comments: 9

The CIA's Destroyed Interrogation Tapes and the Saudi-Pakistani 9/11 Connection

Posted December 7, 2007 | 03:25 PM (EST)


Read More: 9/11, Abu Zubaydah, Cia, CIA Interrogations, CIA Tapes Destroyed, CIA Torture, Missing CIA Torture Tapes, Pakistan, Pakistan 9/11, Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia 9/11, Why America Slept: The Failure To Prevent 9/11, Breaking Politics News

On December 5, the CIA's director, General Michael V. Hayden, issued a statement disclosing that in 2005 at least two videotapes of interrogations with al Qaeda prisoners were destroyed. The tapes, which the CIA did not provide to either the 9/11 Commission, nor to a federal court in the case of Zacarias Moussaoui, were destroyed, claimed Hayden, to protect the safety of undercover operatives.

Hayden did not disclose one of the al Qaeda suspects whose tapes were destroyed. But he did identify the other. It was Abu Zubaydah, the top ranking terror suspect when he was tracked and captured in Pakistan in 2003.

In September 2006, at a press conference in which he defended American interrogation techniques, President Bush also mentioned Abu Zubaydah by name. Bush acknowledged that Zubaydah, who was wounded when captured, did not initially cooperate with his interrogators, but that eventually when he did talk, his information was, according to Bush, "quite important."

In my 2003 New York Times bestseller, Why America Slept: The Failure to Prevent 9/11, I discussed Abu Zubaydah at length in Chapter 19, "The Interrogation." There I set forth how Zubaydah initially refused to help his American captors.

Also, disclosed was how U.S. intelligence established a so-called "fake flag" operation, in which the wounded Zubaydah was transferred to Afghanistan under the ruse that he had actually been turned over to the Saudis. The Saudis had him on a wanted list, and the Americans believed that Zubaydah, fearful of torture and death at the hands of the Saudis, would start talking when confronted by U.S. agents playing the role of Saudi intelligence officers.

Instead, when confronted by his "Saudi" interrogators, Zubaydah showed no fear. Instead, according to the two U.S. intelligence sources that provided me the details, he seemed relieved. The man who had been reluctant to even confirm his identity to his U.S. captors, suddenly talked animatedly. He was happy to see them, he said, because he feared the Americans would kill him. He then asked his interrogators to call a senior member of the Saudi royal family. And Zubaydah provided a private home number and a cell phone number from memory. "He will tell you what to do," Zubaydah assured them

That man was Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul-Aziz, one of King Fahd's nephews, and the chairman of the largest Saudi publishing empire. Later, American investigators would determine that Prince Ahmed had been in the U.S. on 9/11.

American interrogators used painkillers to induce Zubaydah to talk -- they gave him the meds when he cooperated, and withdrew them when he was quiet. They also utilized a thiopental sodium drip (a so-called truth serum). Several hours after he first fingered Prince Ahmed, his captors challenged the information, and said that since he had disparaged the Saudi royal family, he would be executed. It was at that point that some of the secrets of 9/11 came pouring out. In a short monologue, that one investigator told me was the "Rosetta Stone" of 9/11, Zubaydah laid out details of how he and the al Qaeda hierarchy had been supported at high levels inside the Saudi and Pakistan governments.

He named two other Saudi princes, and also the chief of Pakistan's air force, as his major contacts. Moreover, he stunned his interrogators, by charging that two of the men, the King's nephew, and the Pakistani Air Force chief, knew a major terror operation was planned for America on 9/11.

It would be nice to further investigate the men named by Zubaydah, but that is not possible. All four identified by Zubaydah are now dead. As for the three Saudi princes, the King's 43-year-old nephew, Prince Ahmed, died of either a heart attack or blood clot, depending on which report you believe, after having liposuction in Riyadh's top hospital; the second, 41-year-old Prince Sultan bin Faisal bin Turki al-Saud, died the following day in a one car accident, on his way to the funeral of Prince Ahmed; and one week later, the third Saudi prince named by Zubaydah, 25-year-old Prince Fahd bin Turki bin Saud al-Kabir, died, according to the Saudi Royal Court, "of thirst." The head of Pakistan's Air Force, Mushaf Ali Mir, was the last to go. He died, together with his wife and fifteen of his top aides, when his plane blew up -- suspected as sabotage -- in February 2003. Pakistan's investigation of the explosion -- if one was even done -- has never been made public.

Zubaydah is the only top al Queda operative who has secretly linked two of America's closest allies in the war on terror -- Saudi Arabia and Pakistan -- to the 9/11 attacks. Why does Bush, and the CIA, continue to protect the Saudi Royal family and the Pakistani military, from the implications of Zubaydah's confessions?

It is, or course, because the Bush administration desperately needs Pakistani and Saudi help, not only to keep Afghanistan from spinning completely out of control, but also as counterweights to the growing power of Iran. The Sunni governments in Riyadh and Islamabad have as much to fear from a resurgent Iran as does the Bush administration. But does this mean that leads about the origins of 9/11 should not be aggressively pursued? Of course not. But this is precisely what the Bush administration is doing. And now the cover-up is enhanced by the CIA's destruction of Zubaydah's interrogation tapes.

The American public deserves no less than the complete truth about 9/11. And those CIA officials now complicit in hiding the truth by destroying key evidence should be held responsible. Subscribe to *9-11*

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#1. To: All (#0)

z10.invisionfree.com/Loos...index.php?showtopic=20097

8bitagent

Wow. A few days after Qatar had been outed as sponsoring 9/11 and sheltering al Qaeda, the REAL reason why the CIA torture tapes were destroyed:

those al Qaeda operatives revealed how the leaders of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan were controlling the al Qaeda hijackers and controlling the operation:

www.huffingtonpost.com/gerald- posne...er_b_75850.html

Instead, when confronted by his "Saudi" interrogators, Zubaydah showed no fear. Instead, according to the two U.S. intelligence sources that provided me the details, he seemed relieved. The man who had been reluctant to even confirm his identity to his U.S. captors, suddenly talked animatedly. He was happy to see them, he said, because he feared the Americans would kill him. He then asked his interrogators to call a senior member of the Saudi royal family. And Zubaydah provided a private home number and a cell phone number from memory. "He will tell you what to do," Zubaydah assured them

That man was Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul-Aziz, one of King Fahd's nephews, and the chairman of the largest Saudi publishing empire. Later, American investigators would determine that Prince Ahmed had been in the U.S. on 9/11.

American interrogators used painkillers to induce Zubaydah to talk -- they gave him the meds when he cooperated, and withdrew them when he was quiet. They also utilized a thiopental sodium drip (a so-called truth serum). Several hours after he first fingered Prince Ahmed, his captors challenged the information, and said that since he had disparaged the Saudi royal family, he would be executed. It was at that point that some of the secrets of 9/11 came pouring out. In a short monologue, that one investigator told me was the "Rosetta Stone" of 9/11, Zubaydah laid out details of how he and the al Qaeda hierarchy had been supported at high levels inside the Saudi and Pakistan governments.

He named two other Saudi princes, and also the chief of Pakistan's air force, as his major contacts. Moreover, he stunned his interrogators, by charging that two of the men, the King's nephew, and the Pakistani Air Force chief, knew a major terror operation was planned for America on 9/11.

Even DailyKos showed some balls and is printing the story: It's Not Torture They're Covering Up, It's the Results

by The Baculum King

Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 03:41:17 PM PST

The automatic assumption about the CIA's destruction of the interrogation tapes of Abu Zubaydah is that the tapes exposed methods everyone would agree amounted to torture, and they were destroyed to prevent that proof being exposed. It's quite likely that what was being covered up was the results of that torture.

Gerald Posner has a piece at HuffPo drawing from his 2003 book that is worth a read:

Instead, when confronted by his "Saudi" interrogators, Zubaydah showed no fear. Instead, according to the two U.S. intelligence sources that provided me the details, he seemed relieved. The man who had been reluctant to even confirm his identity to his U.S. captors, suddenly talked animatedly. He was happy to see them, he said, because he feared the Americans would kill him. He then asked his interrogators to call a senior member of the Saudi royal family. And Zubaydah provided a private home number and a cell phone number from memory. "He will tell you what to do," Zubaydah assured them

The Baculum King's diary :: ::

He named two other Saudi princes, and also the chief of Pakistan's air force, as his major contacts. Moreover, he stunned his interrogators, by charging that two of the men, the King's nephew, and the Pakistani Air Force chief, knew a major terror operation was planned for America on 9/11.

It would be nice to further investigate the men named by Zubaydah, but that is not possible.

All four identified by Zubaydah are now dead. As for the three Saudi princes, the King's 43-year-old nephew, Prince Ahmed, died of either a heart attack or blood clot, depending on which report you believe, after having liposuction in Riyadh's top hospital; the second, 41-year-old Prince Sultan bin Faisal bin Turki al-Saud, died the following day in a one car accident, on his way to the funeral of Prince Ahmed; and one week later, the third Saudi prince named by Zubaydah, 25-year-old Prince Fahd bin Turki bin Saud al-Kabir, died, according to the Saudi Royal Court, "of thirst." The head of Pakistan's Air Force, Mushaf Ali Mir, was the last to go. He died, together with his wife and fifteen of his top aides, when his plane blew up -- suspected as sabotage -- in February 2003. Pakistan's investigation of the explosion -- if one was even done -- has never been made public.

It wasn't the fact that he was tortured that needed covering up, it was what he said.

www.dailykos .com/story/2007/12/7/18.../766/707/419308

The Rudy Guiliani in bed with 9/11's Qatari financiers has been silenced by the truth movement and liberals for some strange reason...

lets hope THIS story gets some traction.

And for those that are going to whine "OMG, blaming Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and talking about al Qaeda falls into the official story!!!!!1111 There was no Arabs!!!",

wake up and smell the reality.

Saudi/Pakistani government involvement means high level US and Western intelligence/government covering up.

And I can clearly illustrate how many top level 9/11 operatives were CIA assets or MI6 operatives.

Mark

If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower

Kamala  posted on  2007-12-09   9:09:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Kamala (#0)

Gerald Posner has also written a book defending the conclusions of the Warren Commission.

His account here of the treatment of Abu Zubaydah appears to contradict that of Ron Suskind, who is credible.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-12-09   9:13:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: All (#0)

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5131524/

Did al-Qaida trainee warn FBI before 9/11?: Says he told agents of terrorist plan to hijack passenger planes

Lisa Myers Senior investigative correspondent

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

• Profile

By Lisa Myers and the NBC Investigative Unit

NBC News updated 3:27 p.m. CT, Mon., July. 26, 2004

LONDON - More than a year before 9/11, a Pakistani-British man told the FBI an incredible tale: that he had been trained by bin Laden’s followers to hijack airplanes and was now in America to carry out an attack. The FBI questioned him for weeks, but then let him go home, and never followed up. Now, the former al-Qaida insider is talking.

In March, 2000, Niaz Khan said he was down and out, waiting tables in a curry house north of London, overwhelmed by gambling debts and increasingly drawn to the message of a radical local imam. The imam extolled Osama bin Laden and the rewards of dying for jihad.

Then, one night, outside a casino in Manchester, England, Khan said two mysterious men approached him. “First they say, ‘We can help you,’" recalls Khan. "I say, ‘How can you help me?’ Say, ‘OK, come sit in car.’ Said ‘Do you heard Osama name’?”

Story continues below [5; -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- advertisement

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Khan, now 30, said the men told him they were working on behalf of Osama bin Laden, knew all about his background and gambling debts — information presumably gleaned from his fellow mosque members — and offered to teach him the ways of jihad.

They gave Khan several thousand dollars and flew him to Lahore, Pakistan, where he waited for instructions in a local hotel. He says that bin Laden’s followers then drove him, blindfolded, to a nearby safe house.

In training Khan told NBC News that for the next few weeks he was trained by al-Qaida to hijack passenger planes, and then sent to the United States. But when he told the FBI, headquarters was skeptical and, after several weeks, senior FBI officials ordered him released to the custody of British intelligence. Khan said, “I told them before the 9/11, about more than year, be… hijacking in America or on America airline.”

Khan said that at the Lahore training compound he and up to 30 other men were taught hijacking basics, including how to smuggle guns and other weapons through airport security, techniques to overpower passengers and crew and how to get into a cockpit.

Khan says he did not think about all the other people he might have killed and, at the time, didn’t care. “Not that time," he said. "If I die, it doesn’t matter because this life anyway, it’s no good.”

After about a week of training, Khan said he was given money to fly a circuitous route from Pakistan to Doha, Qatar, to London, to Zurich, Switzerland, back to London, and then off to New York. The purpose, he said, was to allow him to observe flight operations and on-board security measures.

Upon landing at JFK airport, Khan says he was supposed to go to a taxi stand, find a man in a white prayer cap and use a code. “He say, ‘Your name Babu Khan?’ " said Khan. "And you will be saying, ‘Yes, my name Babu Khan.’ ‘Your name Babu Khan?’ You say, ‘Yes, my name Babu Khan.’”

But Khan claims he got cold feet. Instead of meeting his contact, he slipped away, retreated to New York, then took a bus to Atlantic City and gambled away almost all his money. Fearful that he had blown al-Qaida’s cash, and aware that his terrorist trainers had copied his passport information and easily knew how to find him, Khan turned himself in and confessed. “I’ve been to Pakistan," he said. "I know about this hijacking, something going on.”

Khan said his trainers never told him exactly what his terrorist mission in the United States would be. He said he was told he would learn more details from a half dozen other trained terrorists who, he was told, already were in the U.S.

For three weeks, FBI counter-terrorist agents in Newark, N.J. interrogated Khan, created composite drawings of his terrorist trainer and a fellow student and then wired Khan up and took him back to JFK airport, hoping to smoke out other conspirators. But they had no luck.

Lie-detector tests Congress’ 9/11 report confirms that in April, 2000, an unnamed “walk-in” told the FBI he “was to meet five or six persons” — some of them pilots — who would take over a plane and fly to Afghanistan, or blow the plane up. The report adds that the “walk-in” passed a lie-detector test.

NBC News has learned that Khan passed not one but two FBI polygraphs. A former FBI official says Newark agents believed Khan and tried to aggressively follow every lead in the case, but word came from headquarters saying, “return him to London and forget about it” -- which, critics say, is exactly what the FBI did.

But the FBI insists it investigated Khan’s allegations thoroughly, could not confirm them, and had no legal grounds to hold him. Federal prosecutors agreed. FBI officials say they did the right thing in turning Khan over to British authorities, and assumed they would carefully investigate.

But NBC News has learned that New Scotland Yard only interviewed Khan for about two hours, and then released him. Spokesmen for Scotland Yard and MI-5, the British intelligence agency, would not comment.

Khan said he watched the 9/11 attacks on television and was horrified. He said he was sad for the victims and relieved he had not carried out any attacks of his own. To him, the 9/11 plot rang familiar. “Maybe same plan," he said. "Maybe same training.”

There’s no evidence Khan was part of the 9/11 plot. But lawyers for 9/11 families urged him to tell his story, arguing it reveals a major missed clue.

Khan says the British tabloids offered to pay him to tell his story, but he declined. He wants it known that he has not accepted any money for any interview.

He is fearful for his life and, at first, was reluctant to talk to NBC. He changed his mind after a British newspaper published his name and, he says, surreptitiously took his photograph. Once it was published, he agreed to go on camera to talk about what he sees as a missed opportunity.

Khan remains surprised that, to this day, the FBI, CIA and Scotland Yard have never asked for his help in identifying the street address of the Lahore safe house where he and dozens of other men were trained. He says he saw some identifying signs and might be able to locate it today. “I just surprised because [they] never come back to ask some more things," he said. "[The FBI] believed me, but maybe not seriously.”

Now that he’s told his story, Khan plans to go back into the shadows—branded by some a terrorist and by others a traitor to the cause.

Lisa Myers is NBC News’ Senior Investigative Correspondent

© 2007 MSNBC Interactive

Mark

If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower

Kamala  posted on  2007-12-09   9:13:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: aristeides (#2)

You're a smart guy. You've read enough on a wide varity of subjects. This is as I'm sure you are familiar with the term, "A limited hangout".

Mark

If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower

Kamala  posted on  2007-12-09   9:19:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Kamala (#4)

This is as I'm sure you are familiar with the term, "A limited hangout".

Or a misdirection. All this news about CIA waterboarding tends to throw doubt on the 9/11 Commission's account of 9/11. I was wondering if the second, unidentified victim of the taped waterboarding was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, whose testimony formed the basis of what the 9/11 Commission had to say about the operational details of 9/11. Yesterday's Washington Post identified the second victim as somebody else, and today's Washington Post repeats the identification. However, today's Washington Post also says KSM is one of three Al Qaeda figures known to have been waterboarded. And it offers an account of the treatment of Abu Zubaydah, which is consistent with Suskind's, not Posner's.

Maybe Posner wants to misdirect attention on the destroyed videotape story in a way that does not call into doubt the 9/11 Commission Report? And maybe he's one of those who wants to make Saudi Arabia bear a lot of the blame for 9/11?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-12-09   9:46:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: aristeides, Kamala (#5)

Maybe Posner wants to misdirect attention on the destroyed videotape story in a way that does not call into doubt the 9/11 Commission Report? And maybe he's one of those who wants to make Saudi Arabia bear a lot of the blame for 9/11?

Look, let us not get off track here, OK?

First off, even if this info is true (doubtful, but so what?), does anyone here think that the Saudias and Pakistan exist without deep, deep involvement by both the CIA and the Mossad?

Does anyone believe, all evidence to the contrary not-with-standing, that those poorly trained so-called terrorists we have been told flew those planes like really good commercial pilots, could actually do that?

And how many times have you watched the videos of the buildings fall into their own foot-print, before you come to the conclusion that there is more to this story than just the non-sense revealed above?

We need to keep our eye on EVERYTHING here, and not just some new, off-the-wall revelation that smells like dog poop.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2007-12-09   11:33:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: aristeides (#5)

In all honestly, any investigation into 911 is over. Its been 6+ years. Really, all that can be taken from it now, is the awareness of how governments carry out false events, in order to precipitate radical change. I see nothing positive for the future of the USA. Forget Ron Paul. Hillary is next to finish the destruction. I know most on 4um are clinging to some hope. Hope is one of mankinds greatest strengths, and also its greatest weakness.

Mark

If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower

Kamala  posted on  2007-12-10   6:33:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Kamala (#7)

Hope is one of mankinds greatest strengths, and also its greatest weakness.

“Never give in,
never give in,
never; never; never; never-
in nothing, great or small, large or petty -
never give in
except to convictions of honor and good sense”
~ Winston Churchill

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." ~ Matthew 6:33

wudidiz  posted on  2007-12-10   6:50:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Kamala (#7)

The powers that be would certainly love it for us to give up hope.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2007-12-10   7:24:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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