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Neocon Nuttery See other Neocon Nuttery Articles Title: (Saddleback Community Cult) [CFR] Pastor Rick Warren Hearts Huckabee Source: Some Idiot's Blog URL Source: http://ihearthuckabee.blogspot.com/ ... ck-warren-hearts-huckabee.html Published: Nov 1, 2007 Author: Some Idiot That Hearts Jokabee Post Date: 2007-12-09 14:26:46 by FOH Keywords: CFR, Lucifer, Rick Warren Views: 394 Comments: 16 Rick Warren Hearts Huckabee Lately there has been a positive trend of influential Christian leaders coming forward in support of Mike Huckabee. The latest source is Dr. Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church in Southern California and best-selling author of "The Purpose-Driven Life". Dr. Warren recently made this statement about Governor Huckabee on a radio program: “I know most of the candidates running for president but I’ve known Mike Huckabee the longest, since we did our graduate degrees together in the late 70s. Mike’s a man of vision, compassion, and integrity. I’ve watched his uncanny ability to identify with normal people in ways that many leaders don’t. That’s probably why TIME named him one of the five best governors in America. He’s definitely presidential material. But honestly, what I find most appealing is his self-deprecating humor. That’s a key sign of a spiritually and emotionally healthy leader - someone who is comfortable with himself, is authentic, doesn’t wear a mask, and is secure enough to be humble. People love that.” Click for Full Text! Poster Comment: Bush wasn't CFR; but Cheney was a former CFR Director. Everyone around Bush is Council on Foreign Relations. Huckabee the Huckster FRAUD isn't CFR (that I'm aware); but he might as well be. jokabee is a North American Unioner. Beware this devil...beware. Rick Warren, the CFR's Chief Ecumenist, is leading Christians into bondage. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest #1. To: FOH (#0) I never did like Rick Warren, and I don't know much about him. But this is evidence that the man is an idiot at best. 1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. Red Jones  posted on  2007-12-09   14:34:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: Red Jones (#1) "When you write the best-selling book in the world for the last three years, that changes your life.... Ten percent of America's churches have engaged in '40 Days of Purpose' programs, which have 'spread' to secular organizations, including sports teams and major corporations such as Ford, Wal-Mart and Coca-Cola, not to mention the military."[1] RickWarren "Dear Saddleback Family... This week I shared part of this message in New York City where I spoke at the United Nations, and also to The Council on Foreign Relations." Group email to Saddleback sent by "Pastor Rick," September 17, 2005. "Dear Saddleback Family... No matter where I’ve been invited to speak - to Congress, to the Davos World Economic Forum, at Harvard and Oxford and Cambridge, to the United Nations, to the Foreign Affairs Council, from Rabbis at the University of Judaism to Muslim leaders in the Middle East, from Urban Gays to Rural Cowboys – my message is unchanged..." Group email to Saddleback sent by "Pastor Rick," November 25, 2005. See also Warren's personal bio 'As a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and Oxford Analytica, I might know as much about the Middle East as you."[2] A letter from Rick Warren to Joseph Farah "America's Pastor" Rick Warren rarely misses an opportunity to highlight the sales of his books or the influence of his PEACE Plan. But his latest boast to Joseph Farah at WorldNetDaily reveals a depth of deception that demands both a sober response and a public warning. And it begs answers to these puzzling questions: Why would the globalist Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) invite a Christian Pastor to join its semi-secret, anti-Christian organization? How might Rick Warren benefit the elite Oxford Analytica, a UK-based "strategic consulting firm" (according to CRF) that works with globalist power brokers such as J.P. Morgan, the Aspen Institute, the World Bank]?[3] What could drive Pastor Warren to lie and deny his taped dialogue with a Syrian Muslim leader? First, let's review some recent events. On November 13, Rick Warren met with Syria’s Grand Mufti Sheikh Badr al-Din Hassoun in Damascus. Their dialogue was publicized by the Syrian Arab News Agency (SANA) in an article titled, "American Priest Says no Peace without Syria:" "Rick Warren on Monday said... that 80 percent of the American people rejected what the US Administration is doing in Iraq and considered the US policy in the Mideast as wrong.... Warren expressed admiration of Syria and the coexistence he saw between Muslims and Christians, stressing that he will convey this image to his church and country."[4] On November 16, WorldNetDaily founder Joseph Farah wrote, "Rick Warren wrote to me this morning to protest this column. He claims he didn't say anything he was actually quoted as saying by the official press in Syria. However, in a video... he says Syria 'does not allow extremism of any kind.' In fact, Syria is, in many ways, the No. 1 sponsor of terrorism in the world.... Here's what the Syrian Arab News Agency reported: '...Pastor Warren hailed the religious coexistence, tolerance and stability that the Syrian society is enjoying due to the wise leadership of President al-Assad....'"[5] Despite contrary evidence, Warren proclaimed what the Syrian President al-Assad apparently told him. But the soon-to-follow assassination of Pierre Gemayel, a Christian anti-Syrian official in the Lebanese government -- therefore a foe to the Syria-backed Hezbollah terrorists -- should shatter those public illusions of tolerant coexistence.[6] Finally, in a startling expose on November 20, Joseph Farah wrote, "I pointed out to Warren that WND had indeed attempted to contact him about his trip. No one from his Saddleback Church ever returned our calls the day the story broke. 'I'm sure since you were warned in advance by the State Department that you took the precaution of recording your own words,' I suggested in my response. 'We look forward to seeing the transcripts.'... "I really didn't expect to hear back from Warren – but, a few minutes later, I did, with an absolutely stunning retort. He let me know he is a close friend of President Bush 'and many, if not most, of the generals at the Pentagon.' He also told me he did not tape anything while in Syria, 'because it was a courtesy call, like I do in every country.' Warren explained that he had also counseled with the National Security Council and the White House, as well as the State Department, before his little courtesy call.... 'In fact, Warren added, 'as a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and Oxford Analytica, I might know as much about the Middle East as you.'... "Not one to let lies go unchallenged, I wrote back to Warren with a link to the YouTube video: 'If you didn't tape anything, what's this?... It might be that Rick Warren, deep in the bush of Rwanda, never received those last questions, because he never responded – at least not in the last three days. He did, however, within minutes make sure the YouTube video he recorded independent of his meetings with the Syrian brown shirts was removed from the network."[2] 1. Why would the globalist Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) invite a Christian Pastor to join its secretive, anti-Christian organizations? To understand the gravity of this unlikely partnership, let's summarize the history of the CFR. The following excerpts from our article, "Real Conspiracies -- Past and Present," provide a glimpse of the ruling network of masterminds behind the curtains of contemporary governments: Few have done more to expose this global agenda than Bill Clinton's mentor, Carroll Quigley, an influential former history professor at the Foreign Service Schools of Georgetown University. Ponder this revelation from his 1300-page report, Tragedy and Hope: "There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent in the way the radical Right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other groups, and frequently does so. I know of the operation of this network because I have studied it for twenty years, and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960s, to examine its papers and secret records.... [I]n general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown...."[7] Quigley's next page describes the birth of The Council of Foreign Relations (CFR). A driving force behind today's global transformation, CFR insiders have helped steer the course of the current shift from U.S. sovereignty to a regional union under the UN (like the European Union) with open borders between Canada, the U.S. and Mexico. He writes, "At the end of the war of 1914 [World War 1], it became clear that the organization of this [secret] system had to be greatly extended.... This front organization, called the Royal Institute of International Affairs, had as its nucleus in each area the existing submerged Round Table Group. In New York it was known as the Council on Foreign Relations, and was a front for J. P. Morgan and Company.... In fact, the original plans for the Royal Institute of International Affairs and The Council of Foreign Relations were drawn up at Paris."[8] Rick Warren's global PEACE Plan fits right into this rising New World Order. As we explained in Warren's P.E.A.C.E. Plan and UN Goals - Part 2, this Communitarian system is based on partnerships and networks between government (public sector), business (private sector) and churches -- the most useful member of civil society (social sector). But it's never a partnership of equals, since governments wield both financial and standard-setting power. In the global arena, it intends to use the social sector (especially the global network of churches) to meet the needs of its promised welfare system.[9] Rick Warren seems more than happy to be the Pied Piper that ushers churches into the organizational web envisioned by the CFR -- the guiding political force behind the visible global management system. [See "Warren's P.E.A.C.E. Plan - Part 1] [10] 2. How might Rick Warren benefit the elite Oxford Analytica? He fits right into its agenda! Many of the same power brokers that steer the CFR are also guiding the Oxford Analytica. Its founder, David R. Young, provides this background information: "...I joined the National Security Council staff as Kissinger's Administrative Assistant in late 1969. During the next four years in the White House - until 1973 - I observed among other things how Kissinger made ample use of his own personal network of friends around the world.... I could not avoid a very simple idea, namely: 'What a reservoir of talent: there must be a way of harnessing it, and becoming a bridge for it to reach the business and government worlds outside.' At the centre of this vision was the conviction that people in authority - the world over - would more often than not make better decisions if they were to regularly receive the benefit of totally dispassionate and detached analyses on the significance and implications of world events.... "...with the help and encouragement of my old mentor at the Rockefellers, J. Richardson Dilworth, I tried the idea on David Rockefeller, then Chairman of Chase Manhattan Bank; Walter Wriston, then head of Citibank... Robert Engle, then Treasurer of J.P. Morgan; and Sir Siegmund Warburg.... All of them felt the idea was sound and worth pursuing."[11] Most of these mighty elites have chosen to live in the shadow of the mainstream media they control. Not so Rick Warren. Yet his global ambitions and magnetic leadership skills would serve them well, and Warren knows it. "Billions of people suffer each day from problems so big no government can solve them," Warren told the cheering crowd at Los Angeles' Angel Stadium back in 2005. "The only thing big enough to solve the problems of spiritual emptiness, selfish leadership, poverty, disease, and ignorance is the network of millions of churches all around the world."[12] 3. Why would Warren lie about his taped, much publicized dialogue with Syrian Muslim leader? Like the CFR and the media it controls, Rick Warren has mastered the dialectic skill of speaking out of both sides of his mouth. He knows how to cloak worldly ambitions in words that resemble Biblical humility. He hides his emphasis on social collectivism behind Biblical words that promise oneness in Christ. And he promotes the Communitarian agenda while acknowledging the Kingdom of God.'[13] But balancing such opposites leads to problems. Those who try to please influencers in every camp are likely to prove unreliable and dishonest. And in this case, Warren was obviously trapped by his own purpose-driven propaganda. In Syria he spoke words that would please the Muslim, anti-American leadership. In America, he tried to hide the facts in order to please his American fans. Of course, positive proclamations can't cure the hatreds brewing in Syria. Now that Gemayel's assassination has fueled that fire, the noble sentiments of popular visionaries sound hollow indeed. As Rick Warren's "close friend" President Bush said, "it exposed the 'viciousness of those who are trying to destabilize the country' and pledged to stand with Lebanon 'in the face of attempts by Syria, Iran and their allies within Lebanon to foment instability and violence.''[14] Warren's deceptions began years ago, when he first adapted his famous five purposes to a postmodern culture. The outline below shows his Biblical titles (click on the live links to see the Scriptures). But the practical expressions of those Biblical terms have been twisted to accommodate the human preferences indicated by surveys and marketing schemes. 1. Worship: Postmodern worship is designed to stir good feelings and collective zeal. It may echo Biblical words, but points to a positive and permissive God who will cheer our self-centered nature and excuse our unholy ways. It clashes with genuine expressions of Spirit-filled hearts that freely praise God without emotion-raising stimuli. (See Spirit-Led or Purpose-Driven) 2. Fellowship: Organized purpose-driven "fellowship" follows dialectical guidelines. Small group members are trained in unbiblical tolerance, feeling-based (not fact-based) "sharing," and hostility toward "offensive" Biblical absolutes. In contrast, Biblical fellowship implies a gathering of genuine believers with a common delight in His Word, His will, and His holy ways. “We’re all in this together,” said Rick Warren at the liberal Baptist World Alliance’s 2005 Congress. Baptists can “celebrate our diversity and celebrate our unity," he continued. "I see absolutely zero reason in separating my fellowship from anybody.[15] 3. Discipleship: Today's purpose-driven leadership calls for submission and loyalty to "the group" and its postmodern social ethics -- not to God and His Word. It demands collective thinking and "service learning." 4. Ministry: The shape and structure of purpose-driven ministries are increasingly defined by new management gurus, personality assessments, community surveys, and group appeal, not by Biblical teaching nor God's actual purposes. 5. Evangelism: Today's soft, non-offensive gospel focuses on God's supposed passionate appreciation for people who are naturally lovable, not on His loving mercy for depraved sinners. (See Ephesians 2:1-4) When "Christian" change agents train the masses to "think outside the box" of God's unchanging Word, they blind people to the only truth that can set us free. By thinking "outside" God's guidelines, Rick Warren can justify all kinds of useful distortions and revisions of his original message. It allows him to speak one message to Christians -- and a contrary message adapted to the world. This pragmatic flexibility is especially useful on non-Christian platforms. It enables him to focus on his global network and secular partnerships, while hiding or distorting the Biblical message. Thus he can stress the need to network with influential unbelievers of any religion, ignoring God's warnings concerning unbiblical partnerships. And he can freely bend God's unchanging Word, claiming that Jesus sent his disciples out to find those useful influencers who would join their battle against the giants of poverty, AIDS and other social problems.[16] But Jesus didn't tell them to fix the world. Instead He called them to preach the gospel and call people to repentance! In fact, Jesus warned his disciples (Matthew 24:35-44) that this evil world would be destroyed, not saved. All the more urgent is His message to those who "have ears to hear." "...if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ." Galatians 1:9-10 See comments on this article at Purpose Driven Life Listen to the tape Rick Warren denied making HERE Joseph Farah's explanation of this tape: Rick Warren on Syria: 'A moderate country': "...Less tension? Let me explain how Warren's buddy, dictator Bashar Assad, manages to keep peace and tranquility. Secret police. Wiretapping. Torture. Political prisoners. Death squads. Bashar's father, Hafez, was the master at heavy-handed Big Brother tactics. When the citizens of Hama rose up to challenge his authority in February 1982, Assad sent in Syrian troops to massacre between 10,000 and 25,000 civilians. The town was paved over and marked permanently to ensure that others would learn the terrible lesson. It worked. There's been 'peace,' as Rick Warren would call it, ever since.... "...the Assads simply crush any extremism that threatens their tyrannical rule. But Syria plays ball with the terrorists by allowing them to use Syria.... That's why Syria serves as the headquarters for more terrorist organizations than any other country in the world.... "Rick Warren has been deceitful about the nature of this trip and the content of his statements from the beginning. Last week, after I first challenged him about the trip, he denied making any statements like this.... When I asked him if he made any recordings while there that could help clear his name, he said he did not." 1. Wendy Kaminer, "Rick Warren, 'America's Pastor'" at www.thenation.com/doc/20050912/kaminer 2. Joseph Farah, "Megapastor Rick Warren's Damascus Road experience," WND, 11-20-06 at www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53030. See also Oxford Analytica membership list at www.oxan.com/about/who/internationaladvisoryboard.asp 3. www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/conspiracy1.htm, www.crossroad.to/Quotes/management/aspen.htm, www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/solidarity-1.html 4. "American Priest (Rick Warren) Says no Peace without Syria," The Syrian Arab News Agency (SANA), November 13, 2006. www.sana.org/eng/21/2006/11/13/85205.htm 5. Joseph Farah, "The purpose-driven lie," WorldNetDaily, November 16, 2006. www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52969 6. Roula Khalaf, "Beirut murder puts spotlight on Syria," 11-21-06. www.ft.com/cms/s/44580826-7993-11db-90a6-0000779e2340.html 7. Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time (New York: The MacMillan Company, 1966), pages, 950. 8. Ibid., Quigley, 951-952. See also The Council of Foreign Relations at www.crossroad.to/Quotes/globalism/cfr.htm 9. www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/peace-un-2.htm 10. www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/peace-un.htm 11. Oxford Analytica at www.oxan.com/about/history.asp 12. Mark Kelly, "P.E.A.C.E. Plan: A Worldwide Revolution, Warren Tells Angel Stadium Crowd," 4-20-05. www.purposedrivenlife.com/absolutenm3/templates/articles.aspx?articleid=981&zoneid=25 13. Communitarian agenda while acknowledging the Kingdom of God. 14. Dion Nissenbaum, "As Lebanon mourns Industry Minister Pierre Gemayel, left, demonstrators, officials place blame on neighbor Syria," McClatchy Jerusalem Bureau, 11-22-06. www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/16073576.htm 15. The Baptist World Alliance, Baptist Congress Today, 7-30-05. www.bwanet.org/Congress/congresstoday29f.htm 16. http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/newsletter082506.htm Purpose-Driven Deception on a Global Scale Rick Warren: Wolf What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW! Tea Party '07 Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around... FOH  posted on  2007-12-09   14:51:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #3. To: FOH (#0) Brokeback bump Join the Ron Paul Revolution Lod  posted on  2007-12-09   14:53:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: lodwick (#3) The NeoCon faithful lap it up though... What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW! Tea Party '07 Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around... FOH  posted on  2007-12-09   14:54:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: FOH (#2) Good job, FOH. A lot of excellent work here. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Analytica buckeye  posted on  2007-12-09   14:58:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #6. To: buckeye (#5) TY my friend...just do what I can. What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW! Tea Party '07 Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around... FOH  posted on  2007-12-09   15:02:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: buckeye (#5) From your link: Oxford Analytica From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Oxford Analytica is a consulting firm founded in 1975 by Dr. David Young, an American employee of the National Security Council during the Nixon administration under Dr. Henry Kissinger. He was publicly linked with the Watergate break-in and subsequent cover-up. It is notable primarily in the context of proving the value of open source intelligence, and was one of the six companies that responded, pro bono, with useful open source information when asked to do so by the Aspin-Brown Commission. Many of its clients are still from the US and other governments, international institutions, and other public sector bodies, but also include a considerable number of financial institutions, corporates and other private sector organisations. The company has access to a network of over a thousand academics and specialists around the world, particularly at the University of Oxford, England. However, despite its name it has no formal connection to the University, and works using a comparatively small full-time professional staff drawing on the extended network of scholars. Its main activities are in the area of geopolitics and economics, and comprise chiefly a consulting practice and a daily briefing service. What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW! Tea Party '07 Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around... FOH  posted on  2007-12-09   15:07:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #8. To: FOH (#7) 11) 1945---Rockefeller Foundation medical director Alan Gregg begins search for an institution that will see if wartime psychology could be relevant for civilian society. Regarding this, the foundation will fund the Tavistock Institute of Human Relations. ... 26) 1974---CFR chairman David Rockefeller (and other globalists) encourage David R. Young to form in early 1975 Oxford Analytica, which will be the first private-sector, overt, global intelligence network. Among its clients will be the U.N., NATO, the World Bank, Chase Manhattan Bank, Bechtel, ChevronTexaco, Shell Oil, IBM, etc. Among its international advisory board will be Rhodes scholar and former U.S. Senator Bill Bradley as well as James O'Toole who is Mortimer J. Adler Senior Fellow at The Aspen Institute. And among its members will be Rick Warren, mega-church pastor and author of THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE, who is also a member of the CFR. www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis84.htm buckeye  posted on  2007-12-09   15:13:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: FOH (#2) these big mega-churches have so many screwy leaders. I think they are plants by the people who rule quite frankly. Rick Warren supports this war. and how can a christian person do that? 1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. Red Jones  posted on  2007-12-09   16:00:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #10. To: Red Jones (#9) these big mega-churches have so many screwy leaders. I think they are plants by the people who rule quite frankly. Rick Warren supports this war. and how can a christian person do that? As soon as the "purpose driven" Warren was embraced by every non-believer I knew, the alarms went off. Formulaic 'faith', living, etc. is the kiss of death for vibrant, Spirit-led Christianity. To wit, the 'old school' models of Catholicism and Lutheranism which defend to death their 'systems', at the expense of souls. Old Fud  posted on  2007-12-09   22:58:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #11. To: Old Fud (#10) Rick Warren, like the NeoCon GloBAAList OWM jorge arbusto - is an ecumenist; A movement promoting worldwide unity among religions through greater cooperation and improved understanding.. Can you say "One World Religion"? What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW! Tea Party '07 Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around... FOH  posted on  2007-12-09   23:40:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #12. To: FOH (#11) ...is an ecumenist; That's it. If you're a preacher and *everybody* luvs ya, you're compromising basic truths. Old Fud  posted on  2007-12-10   8:07:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #13. To: FOH (#11) Rick Warren, like the NeoCon GloBAAList OWM jorge arbusto - is an ecumenist; A movement promoting worldwide unity among religions through greater cooperation and improved understanding.. Can you say "One World Religion"? http://www.beliefnet.com/story/162/story_16242_1.html Rick Warren caught the attention of thew Electric Jew when Ashley Smith was supposedly taken hostagew by Brian Nickols, who had muurderer fuor people in a shooting spree at an Atlanta courthouse. I felt from the begining that the whole story wasn't being told, that Nickols and Smith had known each other beofre he murdered the folks in the courthouse. Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think. Zoroaster  posted on  2007-12-10   8:53:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #14. To: Old Fud (#12) That's it. If you're a preacher and *everybody* luvs ya, you're compromising basic truths. Bump What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW! Tea Party '07 Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around... FOH  posted on  2007-12-10   10:01:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #15. To: FOH (#2) 4. Ministry: The shape and structure of purpose-driven ministries are increasingly defined by new management gurus, personality assessments, community surveys, and group appeal, not by Biblical teaching nor God's actual purposes. That's what did it for me with Rick Warren. I read through enough of "Purpose Driven Church" to get into that section where he called individual churches shotgun approach of taking in all of those in need wrong. Churches need to conduct surveys and assessments to reveal their strength and market that to the community. He said doing that would by default exclude certain groups from a church and that was okay, because they could go somewhere else, as the "church" as a whole would care for them. It is a half-truth. On a very dangerous level, group think takes over as we've seen with some of the megachurches. On a more common level, each church has its own niche and there is nothing wrong with focusing on your niche. But not at the expense of others. Rick Warren was literally saying is if your church's market was young couples and children, focus on that and if the seniors don't get on board or honor that, they can go somewhere else. If the poor, indigent or "diseased" walk through, there's no place for them in such a church. I guess the whole notion of feeding or clothing Him escapes Mr Warren who will undoubtedly have much to answer for. "What began in Russia will end in America."- 1930, Elder Ignatius of Harbin, Manchuria. scooter  posted on  2007-12-10   10:07:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #16. To: scooter (#15) B u m p What North American Union? Don't wait - send Ron Paul 2008 some FRNs right NOW! Tea Party '07 Have you seen THIS yet? Pass it around... FOH  posted on  2007-12-10   10:35:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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