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All is Vanity
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Title: Get Ready for a Major, Major Disappointment (Ron Paul's Built-In Loss)
Source: Meself
URL Source: [None]
Published: Dec 24, 2007
Author: Me, Me, Me
Post Date: 2007-12-24 10:19:48 by a vast rightwing conspirator
Keywords: None
Views: 7896
Comments: 264

Merry Xmas everyone and may your grandest wishes come true, for as long as they don't come into conflict with my own :). I haven't done a vanity in a long, long, long time but I felt that it's important to discuss the reality of where RP is currently heading.

Disclaimer: I stand for just about everything RP stands for. 'Just about' stands for his continuing membership in the stupid, evil, dangerous GOP party.

Now, on the topic of Ron Paul. I just watched a clip of him on the Tim Russert show where RP re-stated in the most forceful way that he has no intention whatsoever to run for US Prez outside of the GOP reservation. The inescapable conclusion, therefore, is that RP is really running for the GOP nomination and, of course, he is NOT going to get it. He is not even going to be a close third or fourth. In the end, you will find RP trailing Huckabee, McCain, Thompson, Giuliani and just about everyone else who stands for Bush, War and the fat State way because this is what the GOP membership is standing for these days.

I am fully aware of the 'hijacking' theory. Its exponents believe that, somehow, the RP activists are going to show up all 100% of them to vote in primaries and everyone else's supporters are going to stay home and we will see RP winning state after state after state. This is, of course, nonsense. Reality is coming on Jan 3, I believe, and Jan 2 will be the last time you are going to hear about the hijacking theory.

Then, I heard someone here stating that 'the 2 parties' are nothing but tools for whomever is seeking the presidency to get the presidency. This, my friends, is as naive as it gets. The parties are Mafia-like organizations whose aim is to seek, get and exercise political power for the benefit of the inner circles who own them and they as much a 'free' tool for the people the parties put forward for the voters to vote on as the Mafia is a tool for the Mafia bosses. The inner circle has no use for RP, he does not support the type of 'leadership' they are paying for.

Now, RP is going to lose. He took millions of dollars from supporters who refused to accept that he can NOT win the US presidency under the stinky and filthy flag of the GOP. He was asked repeatedly whether he would consider running as an independent, OPPOSING the 2 monstrous political Mafias and, every time he answered the question, the answer was a strong 'NO'.

THE FUTURE: the next US Prez is going to be Hillary, O'Bama, Giuliani, Romney or, maybe, Huckabee. Ron Paul will win ZERO primaries/caucuses and, if he is true to his words, he will get back to delivering babies and representing his Texas district. I suspect that RP is going to be very much at peace with himself but, what are his supporters going to feel about it? What are they going to do? They supported a campaign for the US presidency that was built from the ground up to lose the race - and they refused to see it because they liked the excitement. Are they going to be sad? Angry? What would be the consequences of RP's campaign? The main consequence that I see is that of legitimizing the 2-party system. RP is a saint among politicians. He says and does all the right things and, yet, he insists in staying inside the GOP party and he retreats when the GOP, as predicted and as expected, deals him a humiliating defeat in his attempt to represent the political Cosa Nostra - because he is not a made made and he is not from the families. However, staying as an 'unmade' member of the organization, he adds credibility to it. It would be something close to Jesus joining the Pharisees and seeking Caiafa's job.

I will be watching with interest how the RP fantasy gets itself crushed by the inevitable political reality. Just you all keep in mind that, while 'the media' and 'the corrupt politicians' can be blamed for RP's inability to win the GOP nomination, the main problem is RP's seeking the GOP nomination instead of running for the US presidency and seeking the support of the people, not the nod of the GOP party bosses.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 121.

#76. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, all (#0) (Edited)

The original post analysis is correct. But I would encourage a look at the RP phenomenon from a different perspective.

The only reason we have the Bill of Rights at all is because of those RP type supporters from 1787 who took one look at the new constitution and said "that's well and good for all you rich bastards, but what about the freedoms from an oppressive government we fought for?"

That small contingent of loud mouthed activists is the ONLY reason we have a Bill of Rights.

Throughout our history, the movements on the fringe do affect the main body of politics. Traditionally, this happens as third party issues typically promoted by a figure running for president under said banner. Even though the third parties fail in getting a president, they impact the body politic and influence the direction of the country.

Therefore I ask that people see what is really taking place with the RP phenomenon. Millions of Americans are moved by the things RP is saying. They are rallying around his banner that our constitution matters, that it's not just a piece of paper, it's how we define who we are as a people. This core group of people are proving that they will be heard, that they are savvy at getting media exposure, and that they can and will spend vast sums of money to get the message out there.

The people who have been inspired by RP are a force inside the political landscape, and I will not be surprised to see many of them appearing again as issue advocates down the road.

Let's put it this way: Without the Ron Paul candidacy, there would be no discussion in this presidential election about the limitations of government under the constitution. And as long as he has money and support, he's in the primaries all the way to the convention, unlike all but a couple of other Republican candidates. As guys like Tancredo and Hunter fall away, the Ron Paul message will become more important.

Winning is not the point. Being heard is the point.

Paul Revere  posted on  2007-12-25   17:39:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Paul Revere (#76)

Throughout our history, the movements on the fringe do affect the main body of politics. Traditionally, this happens as third party issues typically promoted by a figure running for president under said banner. Even though the third parties fail in getting a president, they impact the body politic and influence the direction of the country.

I am in general agreement with your entire post. What I would like to explore is the current political reality, with RP running to a certain defeat in his quest for the GOP nomination and a couple of other possible scenarios. Let's just outlines the pro/cons, advantages/disadvantages to individual freedom.

- RP running for GOP nomination: it legitimizes the 2-party system, it legitimizes the GOP as a viable political vehicle for carrying the banner of freedom, it legitimizes a Giuliani or some other enemy of freedom as a 'winner fair and square', it enforces the impression that 'the consumers' do have 'a choice.' On the positive side, SOME good ideas do get SOME exposure but, what I am seeing recently, a lot of the talk, and, sadly, even talk coming from RP himself and his campaign is talk about the insanely huge (LOL) amounts of moneys the campaign is able to raise. Once RP is defeated, nothing happens. The media is likely to stop talking about him shortly after the first 2-3 nomination contests.

- RP not running at all (a world without RP): an election cycle of 'malaise'. As 'the 2 parties' designate their uninspiring, repulsive, Tweedledee/Dumb nominees, their is increased awareness of the reality behind the 2-party democracy facade. The lack of choice is exposed and, to some extent, even discussed in the 'mainstream media'. There is increased talk of the need of 'a third party'. Currently, the parties activists/propagandists keep telling the masses that this is 'the most important election since... (enter some date in the past)' and they are unchallenged. Unless the phoniness of these statements is exposed, the consumers will have no choice but believe it and feel themselves proud for being free, democratic and 'kept safe' by their leaders.

- RP running as an independent: could he win if he ran against Hillary/Rudy and he ran the perfect campaign? Maybe he could if he could get 34% of the votes and they were properly distributed. Like I said, I give him about 10% odds to winning which, by the way, is way better than the 0% he has now. I also tend to agree that, if he won, his days in office might not be too many. It's important that he takes a freedom leaning VP running mate rather than do that stupid 'ticket balancing' thing and bring along a Cheney-like ogre. If he does not win, at least we have an election with a choice and the choice will be clearly not for 'one of the three' but it will be a "freedom vs. the establishment provided Faustian offering of 'safety'". If RP went indie, expect Bloomberg to jump in so that he can pose as 'the center' and give the impression that Hillary would be the 'legitimate left', Rudy playing 'the mainstream right' and RP could be painted as 'the extremist'. Regardless of whether he wins or not, RP's message will be heard through November 2008 and, hopefully, beyond 2008, rather than stop being heard by the end of January, 2008.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2007-12-26   9:48:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#86)

RP running as an independent: could he win if he ran against Hillary/Rudy and he ran the perfect campaign? Maybe he could if he could get 34% of the votes and they were properly distributed. Like I said, I give him about 10% odds to winning which, by the way, is way better than the 0% he has now. I also tend to agree that, if he won, his days in office might not be too many. It's important that he takes a freedom leaning VP running mate rather than do that stupid 'ticket balancing' thing and bring along a Cheney-like ogre. If he does not win, at least we have an election with a choice and the choice will be clearly not for 'one of the three' but it will be a "freedom vs. the establishment provided Faustian offering of 'safety'". If RP went indie, expect Bloomberg to jump in so that he can pose as 'the center' and give the impression that Hillary would be the 'legitimate left', Rudy playing 'the mainstream right' and RP could be painted as 'the extremist'. Regardless of whether he wins or not, RP's message will be heard through November 2008 and, hopefully, beyond 2008, rather than stop being heard by the end of January, 2008.

i can see the logic in that. i'm still hoping RP will make the decision to go independent if/when he doesn't get the GOP nomination.

christine  posted on  2007-12-26   10:43:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: christine (#95)

i can see the logic in that. i'm still hoping RP will make the decision to go independent if/when he doesn't get the GOP nomination.

That's what Teddy Roosevelt did in 1912. And he came close to winning the election that year.

The two major parties are in a lot more discredit now than they were then. So a third-party run is much more promising today.

aristeides  posted on  2007-12-26   11:23:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: aristeides, christine (#107)

That's what Teddy Roosevelt did in 1912. And he came close to winning the election that year.

The two major parties are in a lot more discredit now than they were then. So a third-party run is much more promising today.

Let me see if I understand this correctly, please, and bear with me, cause I am slow to learn......... OK?

Wilson, a little known teacher... OK, so he was president of a university.... told you I was slow...

Is not electable. Most everyone agrees with that in 1911-12. Not a smowball's chance in hell of beating the incumbant. Who is popular.

BUT...... along comes Roosevelt.. er, excuse me, Rosenvelt, whose cousin will one day be elected as a crat-part-of-the-Republicrats. Elected as president, I should add (see-- SLOW!)

Starts a one-year-flash-in-the-pan party known as the Bull Moose. Incidently, using only BIG MONEY DONERS to finance his new 'party.' Umm, sounds just like a party.. of some kind or other.

Splits the Republican party vote..... and presto chango!! The new president is..... (wiat for the drum roll!) ....... WILSON! Who was not electable. Course, Wilson had said something about supporting what the sitting president would not support... something about a Federal Reserve Act, or somthin......

Let me se.... how was it that Clinton got elected pres?

And history repeatsrepeatsrepeatsrepeatsrepeatsrepeatsrepeatsrepeats endlessly and no one learns anything.

richard9151  posted on  2007-12-26   11:47:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: richard9151 (#111) (Edited)

Your sayin that the 2-party order needs to be strictly enforced or the Nation suffers because of look what happened when there was a 'third party' run (Wilson, Clinton)?

This is very interesting but it's not very clear what Wilson's 2-party rival would have done or what a GHWB2 presidency would have been like. Is there a knowledge that shows how better America would have been absent the Bull Moose or Perot? I am askin because, I remember that GHWB threatened the Yugos with war over Kosovo, then Clinton Made war over Kosovo. Then, Clinton bombed Iraq and the W bombed Iraq and more. Now, both Clinton and Giuliani are promise to do the responsible thing in Iraq and send more Americans to the death as they slaughter the locals. None of them has anything to say about reducing the Welfare state. Also: Bush one, Clinton one, Bush two, Clinton two, Giuliani one - all Globalists and 'free traders'.

So, being as slow as I am, what is the harm that a 'third party' challenge does?

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2007-12-26   11:57:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#114)

So, being as slow as I am, what is the harm that a 'third party' challenge does?

I did not say that it does harm.

But if not for the Bull Moose party, we would not have had the Federal Reserve Act in 1912. Later perhaps, but not then, and that would have prevented WWI as well. There has been a lot written about WWI never happening without the Federal Reserve Act being in place to finance it, as all of Europe was broke then.

Mostly, it is about ignorance. As in the ignorance that has permitted a two pàrty system to be established in the first place. Not to mention the silliness about having Senators subject to a popular election, contrary to the Constitution, and then having the same people who cry about the Constitution being unaware of this bit of non-sense...........

Talk about ignorance! And I say, welcome to America.

richard9151  posted on  2007-12-26   12:19:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 121.

#125. To: richard9151 (#121)

But if not for the Bull Moose party, we would not have had the Federal Reserve Act in 1912.

The Federal Reserve Act of 1912 was a law voted in by the US Congress and signed by the Prez, not an Executive Order.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2007-12-26 12:55:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 121.

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