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Title: Get Ready for a Major, Major Disappointment (Ron Paul's Built-In Loss)
Source:
Meself
URL Source: [None]
Published: Dec 24, 2007
Author: Me, Me, Me
Post Date: 2007-12-24 10:19:48 by a vast rightwing conspirator
Keywords: None
Views: 7720
Comments: 264
Merry Xmas everyone and may your grandest wishes come true, for as long as they don't come into conflict with my own :). I haven't done a vanity in a long, long, long time but I felt that it's important to discuss the reality of where RP is currently heading. Disclaimer: I stand for just about everything RP stands for. 'Just about' stands for his continuing membership in the stupid, evil, dangerous GOP party. Now, on the topic of Ron Paul. I just watched a clip of him on the Tim Russert show where RP re-stated in the most forceful way that he has no intention whatsoever to run for US Prez outside of the GOP reservation. The inescapable conclusion, therefore, is that RP is really running for the GOP nomination and, of course, he is NOT going to get it. He is not even going to be a close third or fourth. In the end, you will find RP trailing Huckabee, McCain, Thompson, Giuliani and just about everyone else who stands for Bush, War and the fat State way because this is what the GOP membership is standing for these days. I am fully aware of the 'hijacking' theory. Its exponents believe that, somehow, the RP activists are going to show up all 100% of them to vote in primaries and everyone else's supporters are going to stay home and we will see RP winning state after state after state. This is, of course, nonsense. Reality is coming on Jan 3, I believe, and Jan 2 will be the last time you are going to hear about the hijacking theory. Then, I heard someone here stating that 'the 2 parties' are nothing but tools for whomever is seeking the presidency to get the presidency. This, my friends, is as naive as it gets. The parties are Mafia-like organizations whose aim is to seek, get and exercise political power for the benefit of the inner circles who own them and they as much a 'free' tool for the people the parties put forward for the voters to vote on as the Mafia is a tool for the Mafia bosses. The inner circle has no use for RP, he does not support the type of 'leadership' they are paying for. Now, RP is going to lose. He took millions of dollars from supporters who refused to accept that he can NOT win the US presidency under the stinky and filthy flag of the GOP. He was asked repeatedly whether he would consider running as an independent, OPPOSING the 2 monstrous political Mafias and, every time he answered the question, the answer was a strong 'NO'. THE FUTURE: the next US Prez is going to be Hillary, O'Bama, Giuliani, Romney or, maybe, Huckabee. Ron Paul will win ZERO primaries/caucuses and, if he is true to his words, he will get back to delivering babies and representing his Texas district. I suspect that RP is going to be very much at peace with himself but, what are his supporters going to feel about it? What are they going to do? They supported a campaign for the US presidency that was built from the ground up to lose the race - and they refused to see it because they liked the excitement. Are they going to be sad? Angry? What would be the consequences of RP's campaign? The main consequence that I see is that of legitimizing the 2-party system. RP is a saint among politicians. He says and does all the right things and, yet, he insists in staying inside the GOP party and he retreats when the GOP, as predicted and as expected, deals him a humiliating defeat in his attempt to represent the political Cosa Nostra - because he is not a made made and he is not from the families. However, staying as an 'unmade' member of the organization, he adds credibility to it. It would be something close to Jesus joining the Pharisees and seeking Caiafa's job. I will be watching with interest how the RP fantasy gets itself crushed by the inevitable political reality. Just you all keep in mind that, while 'the media' and 'the corrupt politicians' can be blamed for RP's inability to win the GOP nomination, the main problem is RP's seeking the GOP nomination instead of running for the US presidency and seeking the support of the people, not the nod of the GOP party bosses.
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#1. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
Very well done. A+
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx We live in irrational times. Me and my kids are currently spending most of our free time playing Oblivion - kept me up until 3:30 last night. I find the quests for Daedric armor, our work for at Mages Guild and the impossible reality of the Shivering Isles a lot more meaningful and even more relevant than the current political charades.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Sitting on the sidelines is a great American pastime. That is the major reason this country is in dire straights. Sitting on the sidelines and carping is an arrogant affront that is unneeded and unwanted. If a person in this day and age still believes there is a two party system, then such a view by sideliners is understandable. During the Revolutionary War, 70% of the Colonists sat on the sidelines, most of us know the rest.
That says it all.
Please deal with the REALITY that RP is seeking THE GOP NOMINATION for the US presidency. The GOP has as much to do with THE PEOPLE as the Mafia has to do with the business of construction and garbage collection. And, yes, ANYTHING that helps legitimize the 2-party system or any of the 2 2-parties is, in the end, more support for the anti-people 2-party system. It should be avoided.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Somehow it appears to me that you seem to have a lock on "reality". Does it occur to you that just perhaps there are people here that did not fall off the political turnip truck yesterday??? The object is to give Paul a run for the presidency, what path he takes is not relevant. Others have tried the third party way and failed. If Paul filed as a Communist, it would not matter. Somehow that seems to escape you and adds to your illusion that there are two parties. There is only ONE party and Paul is using it, is that so difficult to understand???
First of all, he left some wiggle room about running as an independent. But the point is, the GOP was hijacked by crooks and we're trying to take it back. For that matter, the entire country was hijacked and is being run by foreign interests. Ron Paul's Boston Tea Party resulted in: The average donation was $102; we had 58,407 individual contributors, of whom an astounding 24,915 were first-time donors. The campaign is growing rapidly, with supporters getting involved in blimps and ads outside the official campaign. Ron Paul has by far more meetup groups than any other candidate. And Ron Paul has generated more interest than any other: In November, Compete says voters spent 252,000 hours looking at Ron Paul's pages, up 50% month-over-month and almost twice as much attention as his next rival, up-and-comer Mike Huckabee. Paul commanded 53% of the total "FaceTime" spent on Republican candidates, and 87% of the attention to all candidates from both parties on Meetup.com. The closest "FaceTime" Democrat, meanwhile, was Barack Obama: voters spent about 91,000 hours looking him up online in November. The majority of Americans want us out of Iraq, and Ron Paul is the only candidate who represents those Americans (besides Kucinich who doesn't have much support). Therefore, Ron Paul is the best candidate to win in Nov '08 against the any liberal candidate. Almost all liberals want us out of Iraq.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! Of course it is relevant. The goals do not justify the means. It's Morality 101. As far as the path the RP is taking, justified or not, it is NOT going to bring him even close to the US presidency.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
It's true. The majority of American do want us out Iraq 'NOW'. Not a majority or GOPs though.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
There are liberals voting for Ron Paul because of this, even though they have Kucinich, because as they put it "Paul has the momentum". I've met a few.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! As far as the path the RP is taking, justified or not, it is NOT going to bring him even close to the US presidency. Morality 101??? By that standard you are in fact justifying yourself for doing NOTHING. In fact with your own epistle you are proud of doing nothing, claiming to have some superior enlightenment as to what is real and what is not. Your own words condemn you for doing nothing but ever further by posting here trying to undermine the will of those that are willing to speak up and be heard, not stand on the sidelines willing to accept the fate that awaits you. Smother yourself in your own world but spare us here the presence of one more American that is a talker and not a doer.
Vast is living in his own make believe world where the two party system exists.
In two weeks; we are going to have a much better understanding of just how much support Ron Paul has...barring massive voter fraud, of course. :-)
Get Ready for a Major, Major Disappointment While you are welcome to your opinion..................... Here is a different opinion and some reality for you............... Some of us, possibly millions of us, believe in the message presented by Dr. Paul, and are willing to put our money and our votes where our mouths are. It is understandable that there are many who lack the intelligence and the common sense to consider any approach that does not follow the "divide and conquer" two-party system that has given us 20 years, (an entire generation) of the worst-case scenario-lesser of two evils "leadership" in Washington, it is also unacceptable to continue to live on our knees and to blame "the other party" and "the enemy." Your position, in the opinion of millions of Americans who want control of government returned to "We the people" is full of shit. Here is some reality - there is a growing number of Americans who have been taken for granted by the gop for the past 7 years who will refuse to vote for any candidate EXCEPT Dr. Ron Paul. Perhaps your camp should try to grasp the concept of smaller government and sensible foreign policy that would return government to the capable hands of the American people. Best wishes! Merry Christmas!
Stop foreign welfare NOW!
You give that point too much of the wrong weight. Ron Paul cannot even once say that he will bolt and run as a Third Party because in the instant he does that he is totally out of contention for the Republican Nomination and becomes deligitimized with his principles and platform marginalized. If he is seen as having had the nomination stolen from him then instantly a Third Party Candidacy becomes viable, and I am sure he is well aware of this as he is not a stupid man. At no point have I ever assumed or asserted in my support that Ron Paul was a lock or that he would be allowed to secure the nomination regardless of support. If the elites can't steal the election outright they will kill him. He knows this and has said it - even if you weren't listening and the MSM will not repeat it. The reality is that we are in a desperate fight to avoid all out Civil War, Massive Bloodshed, and enslavement. Have no doubt that the goal of the elites, the Bankers and their Psychiatrists, is achieve total domination and then carry out their eugenics program of murdering 80% of humanity to cull out the "rebellious" and "useless eaters" (as Kissinger termed us). This is not some political horse race. We are in a fight for our lives not just our liberty. Preaching defeatism is pointless. While we must acknowledge the realities there is no where to run - either we win or we die or become slaves. Those are options, and I can't paint it much starker than that.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Even many liberals are beginning to understand it is a hoax. Not ONE Democrat candidate for President is for getting US out of Iraq now, yet the overwhelming majority of their constituents want exactly that.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! I suspect vast is a Hillary supporter. Now that is morality for you.
I have a friend whom I would term an ultra-liberal socialist leaning individual. Even she is aware of Ron Paul and while she will not commit - I suspect she may end up supporting Ron Paul as well - he is now the Standard Bearer of the Lamp of Liberty whether he wished it or not.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
I've heard a few laughing about registering as Republicans for the first (and probably only) time in their lives, in order to vote for Dr. Paul. You might remind your friend there are deadlines to do this (it varies by state).
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! Thank you for the reminder. I need to change my registration from Libertarian to Republicrat as well.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
You may want to check and see if your state has 'open' or 'closed' primaries - luckily, TX is of the open persuasion, so anyone can vote for whom they choose without any more paperwork hassle.
You have no idea how paranoid you sound.
You're the paranoid one. You're afraid that people might be misleading you with "facts."
What facts are you talking about?
here's a list of states and whether their primaries are open or closed: http://www.votewomenshealth.org/primaries.htm
As I said, you're truly the paranoid one. Better stop reading 4UM. These dangerous ideas might corrupt your mind.
That one looks out dated, here are current dates.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! You make some very good points and I know that your opinions on this are based on history and the fact that for decades we've not had legitimate elections. Having said that, I think that what is happening now with Ron Paul's candidacy has never happened before. We can make some comparisons to the Perot bid and the Buchanan bid, but back then, there was not the awakening of near the number of Americans to the fraud and the corrupt government that there is now. Nor has there has been the amount of grassroots activism like now. Who knows what we the people can accomplish? But, certainly, you can't argue that what we need is a critical mass. Our strength can only be in numbers so what does it hurt to try? Most, if not all of us realize that this is it. This is our last chance--our last hope. I doubt that few will experience a "major major disappointment" as I believe we're all pretty much grounded in reality. Still, none of us can say with certainty what is going to happen.
People should be working from the bottom up, not top down. Start with running for dog-catcher and taking over the administration of a small village. Decentralization is what his followers want, anyway.
Fortune favors the prepared mind. A zombie, however, prefers it raw.
thanks Robin! I discovered there that a Dr. Hugh Cort is on the republican ballot, in alabama anyway. he lives near me, but I've never heard of him. here's his platform:
lol! I'm so sorry you live anywhere near someone who supports this. Come to think of it, we all probably do ;p
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! Anyone who isn't paranoid isn't paying attention. Either that or they have a vested interest in perpetuating the scams and holding on to the status quo.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. bingo
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! Political reality? I think not. The political reality is Ron Paul is not only going to win, he is going to crush the competition. He is the only candidate to have over 1200 meetup groups around the nation. And the only candidate who is getting the majority of his campaign money from small private donations, and the only Republican one that will raise 19 million+ in the 4th quarter. Ron Paul has won all but one debate poll. He has won the majority of state straw polls. That my friend is the political reality. The ONLY way Ron Paul can be beat now by anyone, Republican or Democrat, is to fix the election.
God is always good!
Just amazing how that works, isn't it?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Merry Christmas to all. Thanks for the joke page. It is so nice to see everyone of you hiliary clinton supporters out to entertain us Paul supporters. Being Christmas eve with all the stress, it is so refreshing and relaxing to read this thread and see the humor in it. Iwrote down all your names and made a floppy of this thread so that if I get to feeling down and stressed out, I may be able to download the floppy for a pickerupper should that happen. In the mean time, I'll be pondering why you all claim Ron Paul is doing and saying the right things, and yet you all seem to be pleased to make the call that hiliary will clean Dr. Paul's clock. If I can think of a good joke later on I will post it to this joke thread. Oh, and a Happy New Year too!! Lac
your opinion?
What this thread is exposing is the reality of Botism, RP-style. Like in a football show, some fans want their side to win so much, they are suspending all judgment and, generally, they agree that 'everything goes' if it's going to give them a win. Many of W's voters in 2000 came from people who were so much disgusted of Clinton's 'leadership' they helped put W ahead of others because, they claimed 'he could win' and, while they did so, they refused to see W's obvious flaws such as incompetence, lack of experience, mental retardation and his membership in a oligarchy family vastly more powerful that Clinton's. In the case of RP, he does stand, heads an shoulders, above everyone else in the run at this time. I was fascinated by RP's career long before he decided to run for US prez. in 2007. He is a good man. He is not a good orator but the force of the ideas he is discussing with average oratoric skills is great enough to make him noticed. What puzzles me to no end is his insistence in staying a GOP and his promise not to 'betray' the GOPs and 'go independent'. I have no doubt that he is smart enough to know that he is not going to get the GOP nomination. He won't because, as we all know, even though the RP-bots refuse to let reality disturb them, the GOP, as big a tent as it may be, is standing now fair and square for big war, big state, big borrowing and Big Brother. RP-bots will not be able to hijack the nomination from under the noses of the GOP establishment so his current run as a GOP, as I explained already, is only going to strengthen the 2-party system. RP will help the establishment carry on the illusion that the 2-party system offers the voters 'choice'. Now, regarding Perot's and Buchanan's runs for the US presidency. Perot, as an indie, could have won but something was done to make him sabotage his own campaign. At the height of his popularity he withdrew citing some lame and kookish reason (the Bush campaign was going to mess up his daughter wedding). When he returned, he was damaged goods already and all he did was help carry on the illusion of 'choice' and reinforce the concept of the 2-party system inevitability. Buchanan one, where he ran as a GOP insurgent, attempting to hijack the nomination from the establishment, he won a primary then the GOP's crushed him. His run reinforced the notion that the 2-parties do offer 'choice' and that anyone that the establishment doesn't like should be called 'an anti-semite' or 'an extremist'. RP is doing much worse amongst the GOP today than Buchanan did during his first run as a GOP. Buchanan two, where he was an indie, there were very high expectations and he stood a chance to run well against the 2-party opponents. Instead of discussing his vision and exposing the 2-party system for what it was, Buchanan and his campaign spend their energy trying to get Ross Perot's money - the Reform Party's bank account- and hijack control of his party. It was a stupid thing and it offered the media an excuse to ridicule Buchanan, the idea of 'a third party' and to help reinforce the notion of the 2-party 'mainstream' monopoly. RP two - and I have now idea what he did as a libertarian running for prez back in the 80's - stands maybe a 10% chance to win the presidency if he quits the GOP now and presents himself as the right choice with Hillary and Giuliani as his pathetic and so very similar opponents. That chances diminishes to next to nothing if he participates in the GOP nomination process and loses, which is as close to certain as the likelihood of another sunrise tomorrow. Now, on the botish reactions on this thread. I see that a couple of them, out of the blue, accuse me of being a 'Hillary supporter', which is super-funny at some level. A couple are also blaming me for 'staying on the sidelines'. These reactions are very typical of the level of irrationality the frustration with the 2-parties and the overwhelming desire to follow some leader. The 'Hillary' accusation, I will not dignify it with an answer. As for 'staying on the sidelines' - if they actually read my post - they would have noticed that I was curious about the RP supporters reaction to the reality of RP winning zero GOP state contests. I am still curious and it will be something interesting to watch and study. Right now, they are talking about registering GOP. What are they going to do when the GOP primary and caucus voters show them that the GOP is not 'their' party and it shouldn't be RP's party either? I am also curious of what will RP do. My prediction: not much. But... let's see.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
vast... Dont be cowardly, name names... Until you realize there is ONE party in this political system, you have nothing to offer anyone here on 4um. You found it somehow to be necessary to write an epistle with your own opinions. That was your mistake. Posting comments of opinions is welcomed but posting an epistle that would have us believe that somehow we are all operating in the dark and only vast is aware of the political system in this country was arrogance first class. You have exposed yourself as one that is in fact a sideliner by your own words, not mine, just read what you have written. There are "talkers" and there are "doers" when any action is needed in any circumstance.
Frank Luntz, the Republican pollster, was on C-SPAN this morning. I was only half-listening, but I think he said that Ron Paul is now polling in the double digits, at 10%, nationwide. He also said people should be taking Ron Paul's candidacy a lot more seriously.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Paul would be the choice of the people if elected, and that cannot be allowed. Kristol in calling Paul a crackpot has started the offensive that MSM will use to marginalize if not destroy Paul. Americans must not elect a person of their choice. If I recall correctly, Kristol even said Paul hated America or something to that effect. That from a man that evaded the draft while Paul served.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestHowever, staying as an 'unmade' member of the organization, he adds credibility to it. It would be something close to Jesus joining the Pharisees and seeking Caiafa's job.
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#2. To: IndieTX (#1)
#3. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
I will be watching with interest how the RP fantasy gets itself crushed by the inevitable political reality.
#4. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
the main problem is RP's seeking the GOP nomination instead of running for the US presidency and seeking the support of the people, not the nod of the GOP party bosses.
#5. To: Cynicom (#3)
(Edited)
#6. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#5)
Please deal with the REALITY that RP is seeking THE GOP NOMINATION for the US presidency. The GOP has as much to do with THE PEOPLE as the Mafia has to do with the business of construction and garbage collection.
#7. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
The Revolution will not be televised!
#8. To: Cynicom (#6)
The object is to give Paul a run for the presidency, what path he takes is not relevant.
#9. To: robin (#7)
The majority of Americans want us out of Iraq, and Ron Paul is the only candidate who represents those Americans
#10. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#9)
The Revolution will not be televised!
#11. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#8)
Of course it is relevant. The goals do not justify the means. It's Morality 101.
#12. To: robin (#10)
#13. To: Cynicom (#12)
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#14. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
#15. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, christine, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, FOH, Indie Tx, Pinguinite, Zipporah, robin, scrapper2, all (#0)
Now, RP is going to lose. He took millions of dollars from supporters who refused to accept that he can NOT win the US presidency under the stinky and filthy flag of the GOP. He was asked repeatedly whether he would consider running as an independent, OPPOSING the 2 monstrous political Mafias and, every time he answered the question, the answer was a strong 'NO'.
#16. To: Cynicom (#12)
The Revolution will not be televised!
#17. To: robin (#16)
#18. To: robin, a vast rightwing conspirator (#10)
(Edited)
There are liberals voting for Ron Paul because of this, even though they have Kucinich, because as they put it "Paul has the momentum". I've met a few.
#19. To: Original_Intent (#18)
The Revolution will not be televised!
#20. To: robin (#19)
I've heard a few laughing about registering as Republicans for the first (and probably only) time in their lives, in order to vote for Dr. Paul. You might remind your friend there are deadlines to do this (it varies by state).
#21. To: Original_Intent, robin, RP friends (#20)
I need to change my registration from Libertarian to Republicrat as well.
#22. To: Original_Intent (#15)
Preaching defeatism is pointless. While we must acknowledge the realities there is no where to run - either we win or we die or become slaves. Those are options, and I can't paint it much starker than that.
#23. To: Mister Clean (#22)
#24. To: buckeye (#23)
You're the paranoid one. You're afraid that people might be misleading you with "facts."
#25. To: lodwick (#21)
(Edited)
You may want to check and see if your state has 'open' or 'closed' primaries
#26. To: Mister Clean (#24)
What facts are you talking about?
#27. To: kiki, Original_Intent, lodwick (#25)
www.ronpaul2008.com/primary-and-caucus-information/
The Revolution will not be televised!
#28. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
#29. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
#30. To: robin (#27)
According to his campaign literature Dr. Cort is running for President of the United States "because the Lord has given me a very important message to give to America. This message is that America has gotten so far away from God and His protection, with abortion, homosexual marriage, and many other sins, that destruction is coming on America a million times worse than 9/11." Cort's campaign literature goes on to say. "Another reason I am running is to push for 'The McInerney Plan.' My friend General Tom McInerney, Fox News military analyst, says we will never win the War in Iraq until we deal with Iran..."
According to the campaign literature, The McInerney Plan says "we need to take out Iran's 24 nuclear sites and Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs' headquarters, and that we can do so in a 24 hour bombing campaign. Then the moderates in Iran can take their country back, things will finally settle down in Iraq, we will have stopped Iran from getting nuclear weapons and starting World War III... Don't you wish we had listened to Winston Churchill when he begged us to stop Hitler before he got big?"
#31. To: kiki (#30)
According to the campaign literature, The McInerney Plan says "we need to take out Iran's 24 nuclear sites and Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs' headquarters, and that we can do so in a 24 hour bombing campaign.
The Revolution will not be televised!
#32. To: Mister Clean (#22)
You have no idea how paranoid you sound.
Lord Acton
#33. To: James Deffenbach (#32)
Either that or they have a vested interest in perpetuating the scams and holding on to the status quo.
The Revolution will not be televised!
#34. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
(Edited)
I will be watching with interest how the RP fantasy gets itself crushed by the inevitable political reality.
#35. To: robin (#33)
bingo
Lord Acton
#36. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
Get Ready for a Major, Major Disappointment (Ron Paul's
#37. To: noone222 (#0)
#38. To: christine (#28)
#39. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#38)
Now, on the botish reactions on this thread. I see that a couple of them, out of the blue, accuse me of being a 'Hillary supporter', which is super-funny at some level. A couple are also blaming me for 'staying on the sidelines'.
#40. To: Cynicom (#39)
(Edited)
#41. To: aristeides (#40)
He also said people should be taking Ron Paul's candidacy a lot more seriously.
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