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Title: Get Ready for a Major, Major Disappointment (Ron Paul's Built-In Loss)
Source:
Meself
URL Source: [None]
Published: Dec 24, 2007
Author: Me, Me, Me
Post Date: 2007-12-24 10:19:48 by a vast rightwing conspirator
Keywords: None
Views: 7959
Comments: 264
Merry Xmas everyone and may your grandest wishes come true, for as long as they don't come into conflict with my own :). I haven't done a vanity in a long, long, long time but I felt that it's important to discuss the reality of where RP is currently heading. Disclaimer: I stand for just about everything RP stands for. 'Just about' stands for his continuing membership in the stupid, evil, dangerous GOP party. Now, on the topic of Ron Paul. I just watched a clip of him on the Tim Russert show where RP re-stated in the most forceful way that he has no intention whatsoever to run for US Prez outside of the GOP reservation. The inescapable conclusion, therefore, is that RP is really running for the GOP nomination and, of course, he is NOT going to get it. He is not even going to be a close third or fourth. In the end, you will find RP trailing Huckabee, McCain, Thompson, Giuliani and just about everyone else who stands for Bush, War and the fat State way because this is what the GOP membership is standing for these days. I am fully aware of the 'hijacking' theory. Its exponents believe that, somehow, the RP activists are going to show up all 100% of them to vote in primaries and everyone else's supporters are going to stay home and we will see RP winning state after state after state. This is, of course, nonsense. Reality is coming on Jan 3, I believe, and Jan 2 will be the last time you are going to hear about the hijacking theory. Then, I heard someone here stating that 'the 2 parties' are nothing but tools for whomever is seeking the presidency to get the presidency. This, my friends, is as naive as it gets. The parties are Mafia-like organizations whose aim is to seek, get and exercise political power for the benefit of the inner circles who own them and they as much a 'free' tool for the people the parties put forward for the voters to vote on as the Mafia is a tool for the Mafia bosses. The inner circle has no use for RP, he does not support the type of 'leadership' they are paying for. Now, RP is going to lose. He took millions of dollars from supporters who refused to accept that he can NOT win the US presidency under the stinky and filthy flag of the GOP. He was asked repeatedly whether he would consider running as an independent, OPPOSING the 2 monstrous political Mafias and, every time he answered the question, the answer was a strong 'NO'. THE FUTURE: the next US Prez is going to be Hillary, O'Bama, Giuliani, Romney or, maybe, Huckabee. Ron Paul will win ZERO primaries/caucuses and, if he is true to his words, he will get back to delivering babies and representing his Texas district. I suspect that RP is going to be very much at peace with himself but, what are his supporters going to feel about it? What are they going to do? They supported a campaign for the US presidency that was built from the ground up to lose the race - and they refused to see it because they liked the excitement. Are they going to be sad? Angry? What would be the consequences of RP's campaign? The main consequence that I see is that of legitimizing the 2-party system. RP is a saint among politicians. He says and does all the right things and, yet, he insists in staying inside the GOP party and he retreats when the GOP, as predicted and as expected, deals him a humiliating defeat in his attempt to represent the political Cosa Nostra - because he is not a made made and he is not from the families. However, staying as an 'unmade' member of the organization, he adds credibility to it. It would be something close to Jesus joining the Pharisees and seeking Caiafa's job. I will be watching with interest how the RP fantasy gets itself crushed by the inevitable political reality. Just you all keep in mind that, while 'the media' and 'the corrupt politicians' can be blamed for RP's inability to win the GOP nomination, the main problem is RP's seeking the GOP nomination instead of running for the US presidency and seeking the support of the people, not the nod of the GOP party bosses.
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#40. To: Cynicom (#39)
(Edited)
Frank Luntz, the Republican pollster, was on C-SPAN this morning. I was only half-listening, but I think he said that Ron Paul is now polling in the double digits, at 10%, nationwide. He also said people should be taking Ron Paul's candidacy a lot more seriously.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Paul would be the choice of the people if elected, and that cannot be allowed. Kristol in calling Paul a crackpot has started the offensive that MSM will use to marginalize if not destroy Paul. Americans must not elect a person of their choice. If I recall correctly, Kristol even said Paul hated America or something to that effect. That from a man that evaded the draft while Paul served.
Vast says he "stands maybe a 10% chance to win the presidency if he quits the GOP". Whatever shall we do if he loses in all 3 parties. I'm beside myself with curiosity. I'm curious. What will I do. I do not have a plan for my curiosity. I will have to think about this more. Focus on a plan. I wonder if other people have plans. I'm curious. I think I will write a lot about my curiosity. I was curious before other elections, I think. But I didn't take the time to write it down. I should've though, so I could remember to note what happened after I found out the result. I'm sure I heard it on TV. Not the radio. I'm really stretching my memory at this point, but I am certain I was no longer curious. I treated it like, well, news. I generally don't have a plan for other news I hear. I'm not curious about it enough I guess. I wonder if other people are curious about it. I mean, I like to know what the news is, and if it's bad, I hope someone else will fix it. I only have time to listen to part of it anyway.
Pep... Good morning. Vast even added a touch of immorality to Pauls bid for the presidency. If one wants to look at morality they would learn that the entire system is corrupt, immoral if you will. However it is the only system there is, we either work within the corruption or we stay on the sidelines and whine.
Good morning. Vast even added a touch of immorality to Pauls bid for the presidency. If one wants to look at morality they would learn that the entire system is corrupt, immoral if you will. However it is the only system their is, we either work within the corruption or we stay on the sidelines and whine. Good Morning Cyni. Yes, I caught that yesterday as well. I hang on every word. Without such brilliance, I really don't know how we can continue anything. Someone has a screw loose. I have never seen such a ridiculous obession play out like this. Maybe, it's best for Obi Wan Kenobe there to stay on the curb.
I have yet to see a comparable political situation. Ron Paul has support from every quarter of society and the unique position of having a 20 year track record of excellence. He also has the internet communications network supplying more energy, contributing more dollars and converts than the competition. Kennedy had the Catholic Church network with its publications, sermons, organizations, Bingo and millions of energetic supporters when he made his run, and I saw that as a child. There were posters everywhere, people in the streets talking about it, people attending conferences and meetings etc., similar to what appears to be happening with Ron Paul. Ron Paul is hated by his own party. He will have more problem getting nominated than he would have getting elected. I think the secret to his success lies in the nomination process. Get him nominated and he will be elected. That's my 2 cents worth !
"We are much beholden to Machiavelli and others, that write what men do, and not what they ought to do." --- Francis Bacon
I have been preaching that for a long time but to no avail. Glad you share the view.
What can we do to help get him nominated?
Personally I think the people have to get in the streets everywhere across the country so much so that their numbers are obvious and cannot be disputed. The people of other countries have benefited greatly from getting in the street, my view is that's the only message able to prevail against the embedded oligarchy. The young people, college students and others will make or break this fight for freedom. It looks like they see the importance of it and many have joined the fight. The oppressive and invasive nature of current government policy hasn't gone unnoticed by them.
"We are much beholden to Machiavelli and others, that write what men do, and not what they ought to do." --- Francis Bacon
Glad you asked. Money is always the prime need but it alone will not accomplish the job. It takes thinking and doing, big and small, by many people, such as the money bombs and the blimp and the 4um ad. Waiting for someone else to do it has gotten this country into this mess.
Let me add that I have not seen a better opportunity to tear down or at least significantly impede the progress of the ruling war mongers in my lifetime.
"We are much beholden to Machiavelli and others, that write what men do, and not what they ought to do." --- Francis Bacon
I've been thinking that there's a half-life to tyranny. Without drastic measures to enforce it, the mechanisms used lose their effect. This generation of American youth coming up has experienced brainwashing like none other before it. Perhaps they are waking up to the reasons behind that.
The MSM will not get the message out, and advertisements can only do so much. Some people will google Ron Paul and learn what he stands for, but many more will have to be reached one-on-one. Discuss him with family, friends, co-workers, associates. Show how he has credible arguments for eliminating the income tax, People will start to look and think for themselves.
The U.S. Constitution is no impediment to our form of government.--PJ O'Rourke
In that vein, I asked a friend if he could support Ron Paul. His answer... "I am a democrat".
Not every approach will be successful. But discussions -- particularly issue-driven -- can plant seeds. Perhaps you could ask your friend if they believe Hillary or Obama will end the war in Iraq and bring the troops home.
The U.S. Constitution is no impediment to our form of government.--PJ O'Rourke
One cannot over-emphasize the importance of this election. The vulchers from both parties are hovering above the corpse of our country, and can't wait to claim a mandate to imprison us and our descendants in a feudal system ... forever !
"We are much beholden to Machiavelli and others, that write what men do, and not what they ought to do." --- Francis Bacon
Democrats are going to have to face the facts: do they want to war to end, or do they want Fed-funded welfare. They can have welfare a little longer under Ron Paul, but he'll lead us away from both war and socialism. I wish I could teach them what I know: a big federal welfare state requires an empire to pay for its excesses. They can't be unlinked.
He thinks the war is fine and that Bush is doing a good job there, but, everything else Bush does is bad so we need a democrat President. Sounds like a dummy?? Not at all. He has full faith in the two party system. On the other hand I have friends that are pubs and scoff at Paul and are supporting McLame and Il Rude.
The overwhelming advantage to genuine Constitutional Government is that it isn't biased in favor of anyone or any group. I think Ron Paul already enjoys a good deal of "democrat" support. This country hasn't had an open, honest leader in a hundred years or more. It's time we did.
"We are much beholden to Machiavelli and others, that write what men do, and not what they ought to do." --- Francis Bacon
Join a Ron Paul Meetup Group.
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! I am so olde that I remember when the Federal Government was a bunch of squirrels that lived in a swamp somewhere down South in MD and VA. And then FDR and the fellow travelers found out the way to eternal power was via the US Treasury. Having lived that part of history, it is indeed difficult to get the younger people to understand that his monster of a government has not always been so. We lived just fine without it.
Your musings about squirrels reminded me of Pogo's famous quote. "We have met the enemy, and he is us."
You would have loved Rutherford B. Hayes. No, I was not olde enough to vote for him. Hayes promised two things, he would serve one term and go away and there would be no corruption. He delivered on both. His wife promised no booze in the Whitehouse and she delivered on that.
How can we broadcast that meme? I think it's correct, it's honest, and it's why we need Ron Paul the most. On our own and in our respective "groups" (whatever those are from moment to moment) we would do so much better on our own. When "groups" get control, we all lose. The individual has rights given by the Creator. The rest are dealing with the devil when they put their collective controls on our government.
I am a Green and support Dr. Paul. Sounds like your neighbor doesn't understand that under the sheep skin of most Democratic leaders is a 'Republicrat' wolf. There is no real two party system anymore in Bush's America where the Constitution is treated like a "God damn piece of paper."
I understand you labeling yourself a green. I have been so sick of labels that I am just an American, nothing else. I use to be a conservative but that has fallen into disgrace so I am just an olde bald headed American. Everything else no longer matters to me.
This country hasn't had an open, honest leader in a hundred years or more. It's time we did. Justin Raimondo agrees. The sheer breadth of the anti-Paul Popular Front is an astonishing sight to behold, extending all the way from avowed Nazis to radical Zionists, from Noam Chomsky to Glenn Beck. Both Fox News and the International Socialist Organization are out for Paul's scalp – and you can tell an awful lot about people by their enemies. What this tells me about Ron Paul is that he's just what many people on both sides of the political spectrum have been waiting and hoping for. Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! The thing I personally think is imperative as a country consisting of free peoples is to comprehend and obtain an understanding that the collective cannot vote themselves a superior position to that of the individual with respect to fundamental rights.
"We are much beholden to Machiavelli and others, that write what men do, and not what they ought to do." --- Francis Bacon
No shit, when you see those that should be for him instead villifying him at every opportunity ... the hypocrisy becomes nauseating. (Glenn Beck immediately comes to mind notwithstanding his pretty fair interview).
"We are much beholden to Machiavelli and others, that write what men do, and not what they ought to do." --- Francis Bacon
hehehe..teasin' ya...i do believe that's the first time i've ever seen you misspell a word!
Communist coward Kristol called Paul a crackpot and said he hated everything American.
Heh, I am registered as a Pacific Green. But I consider myself an American first. I was a Democrat for a long time. I even was a Precinct Committee person where I vote and always worked deeply in the local party structure to get Democrats elected. Clinton cured me of that, I learned through him the lie the two party system is. My actual registration denotes the fact I am very committed to the environment and opposed to how society on a fundamental level destroys and damages it foolishly and to their detriment. I wouldn't read my registration as being the same thing as that affiliation of your neighbor to his precious Democratic Party. It like the Republican party has become facades for corporate fascism.
oops ... vultures ... That's funny ... must've been excited !
"We are much beholden to Machiavelli and others, that write what men do, and not what they ought to do." --- Francis Bacon
Sorry, friend, but I don't take these things personally and I make no effort to remember who said what about me because online identities matter little. If you said something and you were wrong, I don't really care. Some day you will be aware of your wrongness or... not. It doesn't mean a thing to me. Now, on this particular situation, reality is going to hit you in the face in about 2 weeks so, enjoy your fantasy while it lasts. By the way, it's funny that you state the 'one-party' situation in this country, something about which I agree but, illogically, you advocate that RP stays confined within the one-party system and play by the rules that are written so that they take him nowhere. Oh, well. Good luck and enjoy the Xmas.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
According to President Rutherford Hayes, who issued no formally designated “executive orders”: The executive power is large because not defined in the Constitution. The real test has never come, because the Presidents have down to the present been conservative, or what might be called conscientious men, and have kept within limited range. And there is an unwritten law of usage that has come to regulate an average administration. But if a Napoleon ever became President, he could make the executive almost what he wished to make it. The war power of President Lincoln went to lengths which could scarcely be surpassed in despotic principle. The U.S. Constitution is no impediment to our form of government.--PJ O'Rourke
From Washington on, men did not desire to be president for life. Had Lincoln lived there might have been a different turn of events. Hayes has been my hero for a long time. A man that serves one term and then walks away has my greatest respect. Few men ever display a spurning of power, indeed we have seen the opposite embodied in FDR.
The original post analysis is correct. But I would encourage a look at the RP phenomenon from a different perspective. The only reason we have the Bill of Rights at all is because of those RP type supporters from 1787 who took one look at the new constitution and said "that's well and good for all you rich bastards, but what about the freedoms from an oppressive government we fought for?" That small contingent of loud mouthed activists is the ONLY reason we have a Bill of Rights. Throughout our history, the movements on the fringe do affect the main body of politics. Traditionally, this happens as third party issues typically promoted by a figure running for president under said banner. Even though the third parties fail in getting a president, they impact the body politic and influence the direction of the country. Therefore I ask that people see what is really taking place with the RP phenomenon. Millions of Americans are moved by the things RP is saying. They are rallying around his banner that our constitution matters, that it's not just a piece of paper, it's how we define who we are as a people. This core group of people are proving that they will be heard, that they are savvy at getting media exposure, and that they can and will spend vast sums of money to get the message out there. The people who have been inspired by RP are a force inside the political landscape, and I will not be surprised to see many of them appearing again as issue advocates down the road. Let's put it this way: Without the Ron Paul candidacy, there would be no discussion in this presidential election about the limitations of government under the constitution. And as long as he has money and support, he's in the primaries all the way to the convention, unlike all but a couple of other Republican candidates. As guys like Tancredo and Hunter fall away, the Ron Paul message will become more important. Winning is not the point. Being heard is the point.
The people who have been inspired by RP are a force inside the political landscape, and I will not be surprised to see many of them appearing again as issue advocates down the road Well said. Regarding Paul winning or losing, 'duty is mine, consequences are God's'. We can do what our conscience dictates as to promoting a decent man and his righteous message of freedom. Let the chips fall where they may. Even if the masses embraced Ron Paul's message, which in murika 2007 is debatable, I'm still concerned about the voting machines. Also, i think paul makes a good point- we need more of the Ron Paul folks to make a run for congress in their own districts! take the country back one district at a time. It will be interesting to see where this momentum leads after the elections. It is also great to see the mainstream press being forced to discuss issues such as the fed reserve, pre-emptive undeclared wars and defense of individual liberties. nearly unheard of in recent years. Whatever the outcome, Paul's campaign has been a great boost to libertarianism., and brought these issues into the public's minds eye. I salute Ron Paul for making the run.
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him" They are. So why the push to change to 3rd party.
Are you related to Palo Verde?
God is always good!
They might not do that. But we can encourage them to do that and if that fails, we can do something for them in exchange for their vote for Ron Paul. I know it sucks to have to buy votes, but we need Ron Paul as President now really bad and the other candidates have no problem whatsoever buying votes. It may already be too late to save this nation, but if it isn't, then Ron Paul must be elected now or it will be too late for sure.
God is always good!
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#41. To: aristeides (#40)
He also said people should be taking Ron Paul's candidacy a lot more seriously.
#42. To: aristeides (#40)
stands maybe a 10% chance to win the presidency if he quits the GOP
#43. To: Peppa (#42)
(Edited)
I only have time to listen to part of it anyway.
#44. To: Cynicom (#43)
Pep...
#45. To: christine (#37)
your opinion?
#46. To: noone222 (#45)
He will have more problem getting nominated than he would have getting elected.
#47. To: Cynicom, noone222 (#46)
#48. To: buckeye (#47)
(Edited)
#49. To: buckeye (#47)
What can we do to help get him nominated?
#50. To: buckeye (#47)
#51. To: noone222, Cynicom (#48)
The oppressive and invasive nature of current government policy hasn't gone unnoticed by them.
#52. To: Cynicom, buckeye (#49)
bringing the troops home -- discuss how many countries we have troops posted in --
discuss that there is a credible economic answer to the inflation of $3-4/gas and $4-5/milk and $4 hamburger.
#53. To: DeaconBenjamin (#52)
#54. To: Cynicom (#53)
#55. To: DeaconBenjamin (#52)
Discuss him with family, friends, co-workers, associates.
#56. To: Cynicom, DeaconBenjamin (#53)
#57. To: DeaconBenjamin (#54)
#58. To: buckeye (#56)
#59. To: buckeye (#47)
The Revolution will not be televised!
#60. To: buckeye (#56)
(Edited)
a big federal welfare state requires an empire to pay for its excesses. They can't be unlinked.
#61. To: Cynicom (#60)
(Edited)
#62. To: noone222 (#58)
This country hasn't had an open, honest leader in a hundred years or more. It's time we did.
#63. To: noone222, Cynicom, robin (#58)
The overwhelming advantage to genuine Constitutional Government is that it isn't biased in favor of anyone or any group.
#64. To: Cynicom (#57)
#65. To: Ferret Mike (#64)
#66. To: noone222 (#58)
I think Ron Paul already enjoys a good deal of "democrat" support.
The Revolution will not be televised!
#67. To: buckeye (#63)
#68. To: robin (#66)
#69. To: noone222 (#55)
vulchers ?
#70. To: noone222 (#68)
villifying him at every opportunity
#71. To: Cynicom (#65)
#72. To: christine (#69)
(Edited)
#73. To: Cynicom (#39)
Dont be cowardly, name names...
#74. To: Cynicom (#62)
#75. To: DeaconBenjamin (#74)
what might be called conscientious men,
#76. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, all (#0)
(Edited)
#77. To: Paul Revere, a vast rightwing conspirator (#76)
Therefore I ask that people see what is really taking place with the RP phenomenon. Millions of Americans are moved by the things RP is saying. They are rallying around his banner that our constitution matters, that it's not just a piece of paper, it's how we define who we are as a people. This core group of people are proving that they will be heard, that they are savvy at getting media exposure, and that they can and will spend vast sums of money to get the message out there.
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#78. To: Paul Revere (#76)
Therefore I ask that people see what is really taking place with the RP phenomenon.
#79. To: Peppa (#42)
#80. To: DeaconBenjamin (#52)
People will start to look and think for themselves.
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