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Title: One More Hate Letter
Source: Davidduke.com
URL Source: http://www.davidduke.com/index.php?p=309#more-309
Published: Jun 16, 2005
Author: David Duke
Post Date: 2005-06-16 12:43:15 by Zoroaster
Keywords: Letter, More, Hate
Views: 2527
Comments: 129

6/14/2005 One More Hate Letter Posted under: General— @ 8:51 am

Hate Letters Department

The following is an excerpt from another Hate Letter from one of my obviously not-so-enamored admirers. I thought you might enjoy my response so I will share it with you.

Dear Mr. Duke:

I commend to you the article by Paul Johnson, the prominent historian, in the June issue of Commentary magazine concerning Anti-Semitism being a persistent mental disease. This confirms what I wrote you several years ago, concerning getting help from a psychiatrist.

Incidentally,while you are in the Ukraine, I suggest you visit Babi Yar.

I am sure you are making a lot of money from your skinhead and anti-semitic followers, but you evidently do not believe in the fatherhood of God, and the brotherhood of men. How sad.

R. Ginson

Your letter is typical of the absolute blind sightedness of the Jewish supremacism mental illness that YOU are infected with. Why do you mention Babi Yar in Ukraine, why no mention of the 7 million men, women and children murdered by the Jewish Bolshevik Kaganovich and his other Bolshevik henchmen. You obviously only value Jewish lives. To you only the Jews who died at Babi Yar are even worth mentioning, the 7 million Gentiles are just goyim to you!

Don’t tell me about supremacism and racial hatred, go tell that to the NPR and Likud Party and the mass murderer Ariel Sharon and all of you damned Jewish supremacist accessories to his and Israel’s ethnic cleansing, torture and murder. If anti-Semitism is a disease, then what is anti-Gentilism, what is the Chosen People (master race) genocide boasted about in the Torah and Talmud? ( “and they killed every man, women, child, and spared not a thing that breathes")

In fact the three main holidays are about genocide of Jewish enemies. Passover, the Passing of the evil spirit over the Jewish homes and striking down the first born of all Egyptians; Purim, the slaughter of Haman and 75,000 persians; and Hannakuk, the bloody massacre of the Greeks and the capture of the temple in Jerusalem. It seems your whole favored religion is rooted in genocide while Christianity is based on love and forgiveness. Not to even understand this tells me that you may well be the sick one, and you are the one who needs some help.

Give your canned “Brotherhood of Man” speech to Jewish supremacists that you dare not oppose.

I believe all people deserve respect and all people have a right to exist and have societies based on their own values and heritage. But, I really don’t take kindly to Jewish supremacists and their defenders who are trying to destroy my own heritage and freedom as well as every other people on the planet.

If you want an example of the “Brotherhood of Man” launched by those wonderful supremacists such as Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, Crystal and Wurmser take a look at our 1700 dead American patriots in Iraq, and 20,000 maimed Americans there as well as the 100,000 Iraqis who died and the hundreds of thousands who have been maimed and hurt in this bloody, insane war for Israel. Are you so stupid as not to know that this was a war created by the Jewish supremacists for Israel’s benefit?

As for your suggestion about me making money opposing the Jewish extremists. Nothing is more costly and hard than going against the Jewish supremacist powers. As one Jewish observer said, “There is no business like Shoah business!” Holocaust mania and praising the Jewish supremacists can land you the media appearances and publishing contracts and the really big bucks. Opposing them causes a constant struggle to financially survive.

As for going to a psychiatrist, remember that the father of psychiatry, Freud himself, was a vicious hater of Gentiles who wrote of his desire to destroy Europeans (see the quotations of Freud cited and fully footnoted in my book).

I am sure a Jewish psychiatrist will pronounce anyone who opposes Jewish hatred to be mentally ill. Maybe you should go see your Jewish psychiatrist, pay him a few shekels and I am sure he will tell how you how loving and wonderful you are to worship the Jewish supremacists and blind your eyes to the oceans of blood found in their wake.

Sincerely,

David Duke

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 41.

#6. To: Zoroaster, christine, RickyJ, Robin, Zipporah, Fatidic, Diana, Barak (#0)

then what is anti-Gentilism,

Just another fabricated straw man argument. There is no anti-Gentilism. Arrogance, disdain, and conceit amongst Jewish leaders, probably. Hostility towards sworn enemies, most definitely. But no agenda to hate, destroy or subject all Gentiles.

what is the Chosen People (master race) genocide boasted about in the Torah and Talmud? ( "and they killed every man, women, child, and spared not a thing that breathes")

God "chose" the descendants of Jacob (Israel) to be God's people to fulfill God's purpose. God chose Israel. God's purpose was that Israel be a living testimony to God and also bear the Messiah. Israel did not choose God or decide why God chose them. Further, God's choosing was not to establish a master race (Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;) nor for genocide (the killing of any particular race).

The quote seems to be a misquote of Deut 20:16. Here it is correct and in context:

Deu 20:16-18 (NASB)
"Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. (17) "But you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the LORD your God has commanded you, (18) so that they may not teach you to do according to all their detestable things which they have done for their gods, so that you would sin against the LORD your God.

Now, you may argue God is "harsh" or "genocidal", but take that up with God - He was giving the orders for His reasons in His omnipotence and sovereignty. The Israelites were being instructed by God to obey Him. They didn't decide on their own to kill indiscriminatly.

In fact the three main holidays are about genocide of Jewish enemies. Passover, the Passing of the evil spirit over the Jewish homes and striking down the first born of all Egyptians; Purim, the slaughter of Haman and 75,000 persians; and Hannakuk, the bloody massacre of the Greeks and the capture of the temple in Jerusalem.

Passover is the Jewish celebration of when God's angel of death (who was punishing Egypt for Egypts slavery of Israel and defiance of God's instructions to free them) "passed over" Jewish homes who so marked themselves as "covered under" the blood of the paschel lamb. The Israelites didn't cause the deaths, God did.

Purim is a minor festival (not a main holiday - but David Duke already knew that) celebrating, not the death of Hamaan who was trying to have all Jews killed:

Est 3:5-6 (NASB) (5) When Haman saw that Mordecai neither bowed down nor paid homage to him, Haman was filled with rage. (6) But he disdained to lay hands on Mordecai alone, for they had told him who the people of Mordecai were; therefore Haman sought to destroy all the Jews, the people of Mordecai, who were throughout the whole kingdom of Ahasuerus.

Hannakuk (actually Hanukkah or Chanukkah) is the Festival of Lights, another minor (not major) festival and celebrates the rededication of the Jewish Temple (recently desecrated by Antiochus IV) when it and Jerusalem and Judea were freed by the Maccabean revolt from the Greek occupying forces subsequent to Alexander the Great's invasion and occupation in 332 BC. Yes Greeks were massacred, but then they were Greek military occupying a land not their own. Occupation forces that desecrate a locals religious temples tend to get bloodied, do they not?

It seems your whole favored religion is rooted in genocide while Christianity is based on love and forgiveness.

And just where precisely is this Christian love and forgiveness David Duke exhorts when he was compelled to distort as many facts as required to target the man/country he hates?

If David Duke were to adhere to his Christian teachings, he would hate what Ariel Sharon and others do but love the man himself as well as stop hating everyone who merely has a genetic or geographic affiliation with Sharon. And where is Duke's Christian love in hating Jews because they're Jewish and distorting the bible and history?

Hate Ariel Sharon for his own behavior if you like. Hate Israel for their politics if you like. But don't paint God and all Israelites as if they are to blame.

Judge the fruit, such as it is, for yourselves, but hopefully with open eyes.

Starwind  posted on  2005-06-16   14:58:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

God "chose" the descendants of Jacob (Israel) to be God's people to fulfill God's purpose. God chose Israel. God's purpose was that Israel be a living testimony to God and also bear the Messiah. Israel did not choose God or decide why God chose them. Further, God's choosing was not to establish a master race (Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;) nor for genocide (the killing of any particular race).

Actually, way back when, a tribe from the Desert wastes decided to concoct an explanation of their place in the cosmos, they made themselves the universal center and the big sky deity's favorite children. Imagine that.

Dude Lebowski  posted on  2005-06-16   15:15:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

they made themselves the universal center and the big sky deity's favorite children

lol - then they sure botched it because their 'self-chosen fabrication by a fabricated deity' gameplan doesn't match what their 'fabricated deity' actually says in their 'fabricated' playbook.

How can they be in control of all the fabrication parts and still get their own complete fabrication all wrong?

Starwind  posted on  2005-06-16   15:27:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

How can they be in control of all the fabrication parts and still get their own complete fabrication all wrong?

They planted the seeds of fabrication and thousands of permutations have since sprouted by opportunists that wish to wield a moral Damacles sword.

You seem to be well versed in the scripture, if you'll allow me to digress a moment then maybe you can solve a question that's been nagging me lately. The tower of Babel was destroyed because man was building too high and thus encroaching on God's Kingdom, correct? God's Kingdom is eternal, timeless and immovable, correct? Then how come mankind is now able to traverse God's kingdom in Aircraft at will? Or launch satellites, capsules and people into space? Has he become much more lenient since the Old Testament and doesn't mind airplane noise interfering with the fanfare of his angle's chorus. There are many, many other examples of Biblical stories which are farcical in the face of modern science but rather than answering for their inaccuracy, at that point they become interpretations which you aren't supposed to read literally. Right?

Dude Lebowski  posted on  2005-06-16   21:06:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

There are many, many other examples of Biblical stories which are farcical in the face of modern science but rather than answering for their inaccuracy, at that point they become interpretations which you aren't supposed to read literally. Right?

You have to actually understand the bible (even if you don't agree with it) to know what it intended as history, as doctrine, as spiritual, as physical, as literal, or symbolic. There are differing views among theologians regarding interpretive systems, and they would disagree in their personal interpretive views, but they would agree on the need for correctly interpreting the different kinds of passages.

To be fair in any question or criticism you might care to raise, you must first be 'in the right ballpark' insofar as knowing what God intended to be conveyed. For example, just because the bible records slaughter in historical accounts does mean the bible "teaches" God expects one to go out and likewise slaughter.

Genesis 1 is one of those "biblical stories" as you put it, that is literal and physical and even supported by modern science. Consider The Age of the Universe by Dr. Gerald Schroeder, in which he describes a possible reconciliation of the scientifically measured age of the universe (some 15B years) with the Genesis account of six days. Not "farcical" but a trustworthy physical literal account that can be disected and studied and aligned with what science measures and understands (albeit imperfectly as yet). If the article at all interests you, I further recommend Dr. Schroeder's book "Genesis and the Big Bang" for an intriguing elucidation of how the original Hebrew text conveyed to the ancient sages what cosmologists are now begining to understand about how the universe began.

The tower of Babel was destroyed because man was building too high and thus encroaching on God's Kingdom, correct?

Not quite.

The builders were essentially guilty of pride and a desire to obtain or reach God's domain on their own effort or merit, by their own hand. Human hubris being what it is, anything they imagined they could achieve they assumed they would in fact achieve - that is overreaching ego, not confidence. God destroyed it not because God was threatened by their civil engineering skill, but to put an end to their collective pride.

God's Kingdom is eternal, timeless and immovable, correct? Then how come mankind is now able to traverse God's kingdom in Aircraft at will?

A false premise. God's kingdom is also infinite. Where has man been able to traverse God's Kingdom? If by Kingdom you mean "heaven", clearly no aircraft has traversed it (well, outside of the Bermuda triangle anyway - lol). If by "kingdom" you really meant "creation", well then man has traversed the earth, moon and nearby planets, not nearly so much as the infinite extent of God's entire creation, no?

A kingdom is also the domain of a King - where the King reigns or lives. Jesus would live and reign in our hearts, spiritually, and likewise no aircraft has traversed our "hearts" either. And most often in the bible "heart" does not mean the blood pumping organ, but the place from which love, feeling and belief emanate - clearly more a mental concept but not purely intellectual either as feeling and instinct are involved as well.

The key to understanding the bible is properly interpreting it and such rules of interpretation are known as a "hermeneutic", the benefit of a consistently applied hermeneutic is to always correctly differentiate between what is history, doctrine, spiritual, physical, literal, or symbolic. A few more examples:

• The "lampstands" of Rev 1 are symbolic - the text of Rev 1:20 in fact tells us what the meaning (the symbology) is.
  
• The chain, abyss and Satan of Rev 20:1-3 are literal (real, not symbolic) but also spiritual (not physical). Satan is really bound in an abyss but Satan is spirit and is bound with spiritual "chains".

Before you presume the bible is farcical, ask yourself, if it were true, if God is real and wanted to prepare His creation for an eternal life in His presence or outside of His presence, what does God accomplish by nuturing and cultivating humanity as He did and thus writing the bible the way it is? Or asked another way, assume it is correct and then seek to understand and verify it, reserving your own judgement to dismiss it after you've 'mastered' it all. And bring your brain. God delights in sincere questions and sincere truth seekers.

(ping to others who may have an interest)

Starwind  posted on  2005-06-16   22:22:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

what does God accomplish by nuturing and cultivating humanity as He did and thus writing the bible the way it is?

Ah, He wrote it? With a word processor?

And bring your brain.

That's the problem. I do. And the scripture doesn't reconcile with the natural world. Animals don't talk for instance. People can't live in the belly of a whale. Weather patterns are not such that they can encompass the entire world in a flood. And the one remaining family, biologically speaking cannot replenish the whole population.

We know from the fossil record, there were bipedal hominids, which were never accounted for in the creation story (that I'm aware of). We are told Man was made in God's image, but what about Homo Erectus? We have in our bodies remenants of an evolutionary past. The human tailbone, the now-useless appendix (God had extra parts lying around, or what?). Wisdom teeth often grow in impacted because the jawbone used to be longer.

An entire molecular world which science didn't know about is now unmitigated fact. And nothing about this essential universe was alluded to in the scripture. Dihygrogen Oxide molecules, for instance, must function a certain way and the reality is they cannot stray from their nature even if Jesus walks on a mess of them. Why would God go to the painstaking effort of creating such balance only to make a mockery of it to amaze us with miracles?

God delights in sincere questions and sincere truth seekers.

He might, but his dogma doesn't seem to.

Dude Lebowski  posted on  2005-06-17   1:22:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

And the scripture doesn't reconcile with the natural world.

Did you even try to read and understand the one link I provided? Did you actually bring your brain as you claim or did you just bring presumption and attitude?

An entire molecular world which science didn't know about is now unmitigated fact. And nothing about this essential universe was alluded to in the scripture.

And why should it? The bible is the story of what God did and why. God has left it to us (using the brains He gave us) to figure out how He did it. Your complaint is that the bible isn't believable, and your argument is because in spite it's having provided the accurate cosmological answer, 3000 years before science even knew there was a question, it is silent (not wrong, just merely silent) on the subject of molecular physics.

Instead of investigating for accuracy what the bible does say, you have dismissed it because of something it did not say. Is that the standard of truth you would want applied to what you write in your posts? Would you want to be judged not on the accuracy of what you did write, but your failure to include mention of every topic in which every lurker has some interest?

To be believable the bible merely has to be truthful on everything it does say. And neither archeology nor science have sufficiently advanced to have full grasp of every subject the bible does cover.

Dihygrogen Oxide molecules, for instance, must function a certain way and the reality is they cannot stray from their nature even if Jesus walks on a mess of them.

That is precisely the 'Tower of Babel' kind of hubris that God detests. To presume that you know all that can be known not only about water, its phases, surface tension, molecular forces, gravity, bouyancy, etc but also whether Jesus was supported by water tension, bouyancy, null-gravity field, tractor beams, or whatever, and to further presume that God is limited to the same extent as your understanding, ie, that God can only do what you understand is possible, is unscientific. Even science allows for what it doesn't yet understand, but not you?

Why would God go to the painstaking effort of creating such balance only to make a mockery of it to amaze us with miracles?

Because we need the balance for our physical survival and existance , and the miraclulous is provided as demonstrable evidence that God does not. That God is in fact beyond it all and in control of it all. God is not a prisoner of His creation and the miracluous reveals to us (well, to anyone with eyes to see) that He is in fact "God".

Starwind  posted on  2005-06-17   10:30:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Instead of investigating for accuracy what the bible does say, you have dismissed it because of something it did not say.

I did. It says animals used to talk and people used to live to be several hundred years old. Along with many other stretches of the imagination that the faithful gloss over or claim those can't be read literally.

did you just bring presumption and attitude?

I'm not grilling anyone or trying to be an asshole. I'm on a search for faith too, but I insist on a docrtine that jibes with the world as it presents itself. Not a compendium of Asiatic fairy tales.

And neither archeology nor science have sufficiently advanced to have full grasp of every subject the bible does cover.

Because they're at odds. For God to have made the Earth and humanity his special project, it used to be believed that we were at the very center of the universe. As we've learned that's not remotely the case, we've dragged religion with us kicking and screaming. When it comes to critical questions abour creation, Religion is inflexible. It insists on not being questioned (and this excercise seems to irritate you - not my intention) because the answers show it in a bad light or make it look downright ridiculous. Science thrives on "heresy" towards it's subjects. More questions and more doubts lead it's students further toward real truths about our structural makeup. Others are always stuck on ancient and irrelevant "Begats, begets and begones".

I notice you glossed over my sentence about "We have in our bodies remenants of an evolutionary past. The human tailbone, the now-useless appendix (God had extra parts lying around, or what?). Wisdom teeth often grow in impacted because the jawbone used to be longer." We have (or had ;) tails for crying out loud, like animals. So it God a comedian? I would buy that explanation.

Dihygrogen Oxide molecules, for instance, must function a certain way and the reality is they cannot stray from their nature even if Jesus walks on a mess of them. That is precisely the 'Tower of Babel' kind of hubris that God detests.

Right, the faithful don't like questioning by scientific facts. They don't like explaining why the Earth is strewn with the fossils of creatures never mentioned in the creation account. Our how the immortal soul can be captured and tortured relentlessly when the central nervous system, a necessity for feeling pain remains here on terra firma to rot after death. Or how human beings, with a physical makeup we know a lot about can live to be 700 years old. Joints, cartilage, eyesight, the respiratory and circulatory systems; these things give out after 70 years or so on average. How did they used to last hundreds as repeatedly stated in the Bible? Did God at some point start making budget humans?

Yeah, I know what you're going to say. That I should take it on faith that every mind boggling impossibility happened and it's our science that is lacking here. Bullfeathers!

Dude Lebowski  posted on  2005-06-17   14:55:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Yeah, I know what you're going to say. That I should take it on faith that every mind boggling impossibility happened and it's our science that is lacking here. Bullfeathers!

And yet, I did not ask you to take on faith the earth is 6 days old, did I.

No, in fact I actually offered you a scientific article based on relativity and an expanding universe which establishes an agreement between the biblical account and modern cosmology:

The calculations come out to be as follows:

The first of the Biblical days lasted 24 hours, viewed from the "beginning of time perspective." But the duration from our perspective was 8 billion years.

The second day, from the Bible's perspective lasted 24 hours. From our perspective it lasted half of the previous day, 4 billion years.

The third 24 hour day also included half of the previous day, 2 billion years.

The fourth 24 hour day -- one billion years.

The fifth 24 hour day -- one-half billion years.

The sixth 24 hour day -- one-quarter billion years.

When you add up the Six Days, you get the age of the universe at 15 and 3/4 billion years. The same as modern cosmology. Is it by chance?

I'm on a search for faith too, but I insist on a docrtine that jibes with the world as it presents itself.

Actually, you were offered one above, but what you have insisted on is ignoring it and shifting to new targets. And should you be offered answers to those too, will you ignore them as well and shift yet again to other targets?

Religion is inflexible. It insists on not being questioned (and this excercise seems to irritate you - not my intention) because the answers show it in a bad light or make it look downright ridiculous.

You're the one that seems so inflexibile as to be incapable of acknowledging answers and questions posed back to you. But what is irritating about this exchange is your hypocrisy in ignoring those answers and questions while complaining that a couple questions were "glossed over" out of the dozen that were in fact answered with detail and clarity - enough so that you ducked them.

And incidently, I do in fact believe it is your intention to provoke and irritate. Your first post to me alluded to the "big sky deity" and deliberate fraud in the biblical account, and every post since has been strewn with sarcasm and derision, but oddly, no acknowledgements or response to answers given.

I notice you glossed over my sentence about "We have in our bodies remenants of an evolutionary past. The human tailbone, the now-useless appendix (God had extra parts lying around, or what?). Wisdom teeth often grow in impacted because the jawbone used to be longer." We have (or had ;) tails for crying out loud, like animals. So it God a comedian? I would buy that explanation.

I didn't gloss over it. It didn't even exist in your first question to me about the 'Tower of babel' which I did answer fully. Here then is your post #24 to me in it's entirety:

They planted the seeds of fabrication and thousands of permutations have since sprouted by opportunists that wish to wield a moral Damacles sword.

You seem to be well versed in the scripture, if you'll allow me to digress a moment then maybe you can solve a question that's been nagging me lately. The tower of Babel was destroyed because man was building too high and thus encroaching on God's Kingdom, correct? God's Kingdom is eternal, timeless and immovable, correct? Then how come mankind is now able to traverse God's kingdom in Aircraft at will? Or launch satellites, capsules and people into space? Has he become much more lenient since the Old Testament and doesn't mind airplane noise interfering with the fanfare of his angle's chorus. There are many, many other examples of Biblical stories which are farcical in the face of modern science but rather than answering for their inaccuracy, at that point they become interpretations which you aren't supposed to read literally. Right?

And here in your post #35 you (not I) "glossed over" every answer I gave you, and instead shifted targets and asked about the human tailbone, wisdom teeth, the bible being silent on molecular physics, and God's ability and purpose in the miraculous.

In response, in my post #36, I asked if you had read the link I provided and pointed out the illogic in criticising the bible for being silent on molecular physics and explained why God does miracles.

Did you acknowledge or respond to any of that? No. You instead have shifted targets yet again and complain I glossed over one of your questions, when you have glossed over every answer you have been previously given.

But I didn't gloss over it so much as I didn't address it at all, wasting my time (apparently) instead on a what I thought you'd appreciate was a bigger biblical/cosmological issue.

While I reserve judgement on your premise that an "evolutionary past" is the only explanation for a "human tailbone", I don't have an explanation. [BTW, that's what honesty looks like.] And if on the basis of one person not having one explanation you wish to declare victory, then by all means do so.

Likewise, if your "trump card" is always going to be the bible didn't discuss every scientific topic you imagined, then declare victory and walk away.

Right, the faithful don't like questioning by scientific facts.

Question all you like, but at least have the common intellectual courtesy to respond to the answers you are given. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you clearly understood that the answer you were given exposed a false presumption that Jesus' weight had to be supported by molecular surface tension and that science understands perfectly all the physics involved, and all required information and data is known and there are and never will be any other mechanism, thus the only conclusion is that God can not walk on water.

You clearly understood that science has no explanation for the miraculous (as yet anyway). But rather, for the sake of your argument, you instead take the position that science is at present sufficiently all-knowing to declare any not-understood biblical account as false.

There was a time (about 40 years ago) when science "knew" the universe had no beginning that it always was, and the Genesis account of a universe created from nothing was patently absurd. Well, the biblical account hasn't changed, but science matured to the point it now understands something it did not understand previously. That maturation will continue. Perhaps likewise there will be a day when science will understand how God might be able to walk on water.

But for you to pretend you weren't offered a solid explanation showing alignment between the world as it presents itself (15 3/4 Billion years old) and the biblical account (6 days old) is simply dishonest.

Perhaps when you acknowledge and respond to the points made in the answers you have been given, we can move on to whatever you believe to have been glossed over. Otherwise we're just sucking up bandwidth without communicating, with no chance to intelligently agree or disagree.

Starwind  posted on  2005-06-17   18:07:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#46. To: Starwind (#41)

Perhaps when you acknowledge and respond to the points made in the answers you have been given

The answers you've given are basically "nothing is impossible if God wills it". That's conjecture and frankly an insult to my intelligence. God hasn't willed anything for the entire world's amazement in a very long time (2 millenia maybe?), barring the occasional appearance of the savior's countenance in various potato chips. He altogether stopped communicating through burning bushes which don't get consumed by the fire (as SCIENCE WOULD DICTATE!), nor does he seem to revel in the pleasant odor of a bull burned on the altar of sacrifice (Lev. 1:9). He's relaxed now man, to the point of almost complete withdrawl compared to his persona way back when. No more fanfare these days. That's uncharacteristic of a tribal Deity addicted to worship and acknowledgement. Wouldn't you say?

What's happening here is common. When you subscribe in totality to a doctrine as 100% truth, you're left defending it tooth and nail no matter how opposed it is to the natural world.

For instance, if the scriptures had stated that verily Moses broke a mighty wind and thereby filled a passenger balloon with its contents and yea he flew his people to safety in the first ever trans-sea balloon flight, the faithful wouldn't bat an eye. Religious scholars would be calculating the trajetory of his flight path, artists would paint their renditions and the faithful would be making pilgramages and attempting recreations. The rest of us would be shaking our heads in incredulity. But that's what is happening.

I like you SW. You punked Badeye on LP like I've never seen done on a forum. And I don't want for us to have a sour acquaintance here.

Again, I'm not trying to be a contrarian, but I understand your defensive posturing. But you're right, nothing is getting done. If presented with sincere questions such as how Noah's Arc could hold a pair of every animal in existence, millions of species including those native to far away regions which none of the biblical authors even knew about or how people used to live to be several hundred years old or snakes and donkeys used to talk with human voices, you would casually brush it off as a matter of faith or link to god-knows-what. That doesn't go very far for legitimacy or the burden of proof, which is on you, not me. Arguing religion is one of the most futile things possible because faith preempts common sense, so I'll likely leave it at this and whatever last words you want to say.

Dude Lebowski  posted on  2005-06-17 22:01:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The calculations come out to be as follows:

The first of the Biblical days lasted 24 hours, viewed from the "beginning of time perspective." But the duration from our perspective was 8 billion years.

The second day, from the Bible's perspective lasted 24 hours. From our perspective it lasted half of the previous day, 4 billion years.

The third 24 hour day also included half of the previous day, 2 billion years.

The fourth 24 hour day -- one billion years.

The fifth 24 hour day -- one-half billion years.

The sixth 24 hour day -- one-quarter billion years.

When you add up the Six Days, you get the age of the universe at 15 and 3/4 billion years. The same as modern cosmology. Is it by chance?

No it's not by chance. Science and nothing else determined the age of the Earth. With core sampling, calculations of tectonic plate and glacier movements, fossil deposits. And heck, this wasn't even pinpointed to a very accurate age until the 20th century. So how long did religion fumble around without the answer? Thousands of years. Once religion knew the truth, I'm sure it didn't take long to break down your day 1 was x millions years calculation. But it doesn't add to legitimacy of the creation story because somebody simply extrapolated data provided by science into a neat little matrix.

The bigger problem for you is during those billions of years, things happened that the biblical authors weren't wise to. Giant animals were the undisputed stewards of the land, not man as the bible states. After their extinction simple hominids came to being, then intermediate hominids, then advanced hominids. Which one's were created in God's image? The Neanderthal? The Erectus? The Sapiens? If the latter represent God's image, what were the former? Beta tests?

Or as some of the religious folks claim, the fossils were planted by Satan in order to test people's faith. Of course that's ridiculous, but it's more of any explanation you've provided which are along the lines of "Science just doesn't understand God's awesome work yet". That's no kind of answer for an honest inquiring brain.

Dude Lebowski  posted on  2005-06-17 22:35:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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