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Title: New Year's Eve Thread
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Published: Dec 31, 2007
Author: none
Post Date: 2007-12-31 14:14:52 by robin
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Views: 1090
Comments: 105
Poster Comment: And a digital Doomsday Clock 
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 32.
#1. To: robin, TwentyTwelve, christine, Zipporah, Wudidiz, Peppa, Indie Tx, Pinguinite, all (#0)
This is going to be a momentous year. It is also going to be a chaotic year with tumult and rumours running rife. However, I have a growing sense that we will come through in the end. It will still take a couple more years to sort out but I think this will be the year upon which the future pivots.
Although we post a lot of negative worst case scenarios on 4um, I am mindful of the importance of keeping a positive attitude. Like my paternal grandmother, who was born in Oregon Territory in 1888, and lived 99 years, every year lived in the present. She had an excellent memory but enjoyed this year's peach crop looking ahead to the annual deer hunt (she went deer hunting with her siblings into her 80s). Like most of her generation, she kept herself occupied with something productive everyday, attended church every week and never dwelt on past misfortunes.
That is the spirit which built this nation. It wasn't done by glum naysayers wallowing in self pitty. The attitude can be summed up thusly: "Deal with it!" My own paternal grandfather, who lived to within ten days of his 100th birthday, retired from farming at 85 - the same year he quit smoking. In his 90's he would walk 5 miles each day down to the Boat Dock to work on his boat, and snooze in the sun, and was active and aware till his final day. They were a staunch spirit those who built our West. We can't let them down now. UP THE UNIVERSE!
They also took care of each other O_I, barn-raisings, taking in their neighbor's orphaned children, etc. (of course medical care was very basic and not very costly - no expensive lab tests, hospital bills or meds; everyone lost a sibling to something and there were lots of widowers and widows).
Much of which demonstrates no need for a government to do those things since people can, and do, do them without coercion and force. As for the affects of medical "science", implied in your comment, the reality is that public health measures had a much greater impact upon childhood mortality and longevity. Children are the most susceptible as their immune systems are not yet fully developed. As well when you have 11 kids in a family, as my father's, your odds of losing a family member to accident or disease is much higher. (Out of 11 kids in my dad's family 10 lived long lives and most died in their 70's or later. He had one brother who died from Pneumonia at age 13.) It would be an interesting study to see the percentage of people who die from prescription medications versus mortality from disease in the 1880's. The link between clean water and sewage treatment to decreased infant, and adult, mortality from disease is a proven matter and the numbers are a matter of public record. The Great Cholera, and Typhus, Epidemic of England in the early 1800's was linked directly to drinking water contaminated with human waste i.e., wells were dug, sometimes only feet, from cesspits. When the drinking water supply was cleaned up, and sewer system built, the epidemic disappeared. Prescription medicines are not the panacea claimed by their advertising and PR people. When one actually looks at the background data other factors begin stepping out of the mix. Certainly anti-biotics have had a good effect, but there is no need for most of them to be only by prescription - in most countries other than the U.S. they are not. It is the Medical Monopoly in this country which has rigged the laws to profit from people's needs and wants. As well improvements in diet, greater knowledge of what constitutes a healthful diet, acts as a preventative for disease. So, while the AMA would like to take all the credit, and try to, they were a lesser factor than simple public health measures and improved diet.
If only that were true. My argument has always been that the church has failed in its job here. Modern medicine has its pitfalls to be sure. Nevertheless, there have been miraculous advances in science and medicine in the last 100 years.
If only that were true. My argument has always been that the church has failed in its job here. Another Master's Thesis begging comment. Simply, if you dig into the history of American Philanthropy and self help - it began to die following the Depression. Prior to that it had been robust and most of the "Social Services" now run by government bureaucrats were handled by private charities. They began to die following the institutionalization of coerced charity, now called "entitlements" which began in earnest under FDR following the engieered collapse of the American Economy called the "Great Depression". The Depression by the way was not caused by the collapse of the Stock Market but, as Milton Friedman has pointed out, by tthe Federal Reserve by shreinking the Money Supply by a full third between 1931 and 1933. With the lack of liquidity in the economy the wheels of commerce ground to a halt because there was insufficient money in circulation to keep the machine greased and running. You should pay less attention to PR and pay more attention to actual results. As I pointed out earlier the greatest factors in disease reduction and increased longevity can be traced to public health measures and disease prevention rather than treatment. And among the miracles one can find Thalidomide, Vioxx, and Prozac Crazed Berserkers. Some miracle. Pardon my apparent cynicism but I have spent too much time reading and researching in the area to be impressed with the Medico-Pharmaceutical Complex's self serving PR campaigns any more. Have their been advances? Yes. Some have been substantial jumps forward, BUT they have not occurred with the frequency which the Medico-Pharmaceutical Complex's PR Agencies would like people to believe. For your edification: Why American's Will Believe Almost Anything
You make a good argument and I quite agree about Big Pharma, but I still wouldn't want to live in the Dark Ages. There is progress that is not about drugs that is very impressive.
#33. To: robin. everyone here (#32)
If we don't elect RP, we WILL go into the Dark Ages. We're close enough, already.
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#5. To: Original_Intent (#1)
#7. To: robin (#5)
Like my paternal grandmother, who was born in Oregon Territory in 1888, and lived 99 years, every year lived in the present. She had an excellent memory but enjoyed this year's peach crop looking ahead to the annual deer hunt (she went deer hunting with her siblings into her 80s). Like most of her generation, she kept herself occupied with something productive everyday, attended church every week and never dwelt on past misfortunes.
#14. To: Original_Intent (#7)
#16. To: robin (#14)
They also took care of each other O_I, barn-raisings, taking in their neighbor's orphaned children, etc. (of course medical care was very basic and not very costly - no expensive lab tests, hospital bills or meds; everyone lost a sibling to something and there were lots of widowers and widows).
#29. To: Original_Intent (#16)
Much of which demonstrates no need for a government to do those things since people can, and do, do them without coercion and force.
#30. To: robin (#29)
Much of which demonstrates no need for a government to do those things since people can, and do, do them without coercion and force.
Modern medicine has its pitfalls to be sure. Nevertheless, there have been miraculous advances in science and medicine in the last 100 years.
#32. To: Original_Intent (#30)
the greatest factors in disease reduction and increased longevity can be traced to public health measures and disease prevention rather than treatment. And among the miracles one can find Thalidomide, Vioxx, and Prozac Crazed Berserkers. Some miracle.
Replies to Comment # 32.
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