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Title: Live Iowa Caucus Thread
Source: Live CSPAN Republican Caucus Coverage
URL Source: http://play.rbn.com/play.asx?url=cs ... n2v.asf&proto=mms?mswmext=.asx
Published: Jan 3, 2008
Author: Me, I guess
Post Date: 2008-01-03 19:53:13 by Critter
Keywords: None
Views: 14214
Comments: 554

I figured we should have an official caucus thread, no?

Click here to view live CSPAN coverage


Poster Comment:

Let the discussion begin!

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 377.

#20. To: Critter, robin, who knows what evil, lizza76, TwentyTwelve, FormerLurker, lodwick, christine, Zipporah (#0)

justin tv is on the air!

Dakmar  posted on  2008-01-03   20:14:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Dakmar (#20)

justin tv is on the air!

www.justin.tv/ronpaul

Thanks.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-01-03   20:27:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: TwentyTwelve (#39)

see #24, eh

Dakmar  posted on  2008-01-03   20:31:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Dakmar (#43)

Hey, I think it's starting.

It's hard to tell, with the overtalking. But , maybe, nowwwwww GO!

Peppa  posted on  2008-01-03   20:34:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Peppa (#45)

pledge allegiance...

Dakmar  posted on  2008-01-03   20:35:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Dakmar (#46)

Liberty and Justice for all ... Bwahahahahahahahahaha !!!

noone222  posted on  2008-01-03   20:35:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: noone222 (#48)

Wow, what a great premise for a sitcom.

Dakmar  posted on  2008-01-03   20:37:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Dakmar (#55)

She's probably related to half the town, which is related to the other half.

robin  posted on  2008-01-03   20:38:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: robin, Peppa (#58)

She's probably related to half the town, which is related to the other half.

Yeah, but the real question is what is the year of the Pick-up on blocks in the front yard?

Well?

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-01-03   20:47:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Original_Intent (#86)

mccain has the longest pro life voting record? WHAT?

lizza76  posted on  2008-01-03   20:49:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: lizza76 (#88)

mccain has the longest pro life voting record? WHAT?

He supports War. What about pro-life confuses you?/s

Peppa  posted on  2008-01-03   20:50:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Peppa (#89)

Pro-life in the womb ... after 18 anything goes !

noone222  posted on  2008-01-03   20:51:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: noone222 (#93)

Pro-life in the womb ... after 18 anything goes !

Well, I'm not so sure.

Peppa  posted on  2008-01-03   21:00:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: Peppa (#110)

McCain doesn't support the right to life for any Muslims or American kids over 18.

noone222  posted on  2008-01-03   21:02:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: noone222 (#113)

MSNBC is projecting Huckabee as the winner

lizza76  posted on  2008-01-03   21:03:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: lizza76 (#116)

I just hope RP gets 3rd

noone222  posted on  2008-01-03   21:05:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: noone222, all (#121)

You guys watching the paper thingy's?

Peppa  posted on  2008-01-03   21:06:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: Peppa (#123)

looks like a pretty muddled up system to me

lizza76  posted on  2008-01-03   21:08:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: lizza76 (#125)

looks like a pretty muddled up system to me

It's what government healthcare would look like.

Peppa  posted on  2008-01-03   21:14:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: Peppa (#133)

It's what government healthcare would look like.

You wanna see what government health care would look like? Imagine going through the TSA screening at an airport...only more thuggish.

orangedog  posted on  2008-01-03   21:25:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#155. To: orangedog (#144)

You wanna see what government health care would look like? Imagine going through the TSA screening at an airport...only more thuggish.

Free colonoscopy!

Peppa  posted on  2008-01-03   21:32:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#164. To: Peppa, orangedog (#155)

65% reporting - Benito back to 4%, Ron still at 10%

Dukie  posted on  2008-01-03   21:36:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#172. To: Dukie (#164)

65% reporting - Benito back to 4%, Ron still at 10%

I think there might be more to what went on than we actually know at this point, but, it's been a nail biter.

Idiot talking now... CONSERVATISM WORKS EACH TIME IT'S TRIED? BOT!!!!!!!

Yeah, murder is the key componenet of both party policies.

Peppa  posted on  2008-01-03   21:42:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#182. To: Peppa (#172)

CONSERVATISM

The term "conservatism" today implies regimentation, order, hammering down every nail standing up, conformity, intolerance of individual thinking, and the state is your friend.

Dukie  posted on  2008-01-03   21:48:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: Dukie (#182)

The term "conservatism" today implies regimentation, order, hammering down every nail standing up, conformity, intolerance of individual thinking, and the state is your friend.

God willing we "Paleos" may soon be able to drop the loathsome prefix and put a true conservative face back on the Republican Party.

iconoclast  posted on  2008-01-03   22:01:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#209. To: iconoclast (#201)

Whoever dreamed up the paleo/neo dichotomy ? In my mind there are conservatives and then there are faux-conservatives ( FOXconservatives ?? )

Dukie  posted on  2008-01-03   22:05:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#236. To: Dukie (#209)

In my mind there are conservatives and then there are faux-conservatives ( FOXconservatives ?? )

My friend Peppa is opening the bar.

I just poured my second martini. But, I ain't celebrating.

Fourth or fifth placings don't feed the the bulldog.

For an eye opener, Google .... Ron Paul Campaign Manager.

We have the best message but its being lost in fringe ideology.

"Nice" and "healing" and "change" are winning tonight.

We have the nicest and the best change candidate in the race but that is being submerged in ideological fringe non-issues.

iconoclast  posted on  2008-01-03   22:33:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#246. To: iconoclast (#236)

My friend Peppa is opening the bar.

I have indeed.

We have the nicest and the best change candidate in the race but that is being submerged in ideological fringe non-issues.

I'm convinced they could not take instructions on putting a nickel in the gum machine and turning the knob.

Peppa  posted on  2008-01-03   22:42:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#248. To: Peppa (#246)

Long way to November.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-01-03   22:43:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#261. To: Cynicom (#248)

Long way to November.

We must have a good showing in NH.

Peppa  posted on  2008-01-03   22:51:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#279. To: Peppa (#261)

New Hampshire is worth ten Iowas.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-01-03   23:02:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#280. To: Cynicom (#279)

I'm with you: 10% is good tonight, I think. And the message is resonating...

buckeye  posted on  2008-01-03   23:03:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#283. To: buckeye (#280)

Iowa was open to manipulation. New Hampshire is not.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-01-03   23:04:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#301. To: Cynicom (#283)

Iowa was open to manipulation. New Hampshire is not.

Is it fair to say that the media "chatter" was nervous anyway?

Peppa  posted on  2008-01-03   23:13:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#307. To: Peppa (#301)

Paul himself was not optimistic on Iowa. Take a reasonable showing and go with it.

New Hampshire will go a long ways to setting Pauls future effort.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-01-03   23:16:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#324. To: Cynicom (#307)

Paul himself was not optimistic on Iowa. Take a reasonable showing and go with it.

New Hampshire will go a long ways to setting Pauls future effort.

I thought he would truly rattle the house in Iowa.

I didn't realize it was a nut-house.

But he showed up, as did our wonderful young 'Vacation in Iowa' kids, and God Bless them, they tried.

I'm not comfortable painting Iowans or any state with a broad brush. But, a bat would be fine.

Peppa  posted on  2008-01-03   23:31:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#325. To: Peppa, Cynicom (#324)

I thought he would truly rattle the house in Iowa.

I think he told the Iowans at the straw poll that he wasn't for corn subsidies. What we're seeing here could be a reaction to that.

buckeye  posted on  2008-01-03   23:32:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#335. To: buckeye (#325)

I think he told the Iowans at the straw poll that he wasn't for corn subsidies.

Precisely.

A good campaign would have anticipated the issue and would have had an honest but nuanced reply at the ready.

A campaign is not a Political Science lecture.

iconoclast  posted on  2008-01-03   23:45:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#341. To: iconoclast (#335) (Edited)

I think he told the Iowans at the straw poll that he wasn't for corn subsidies.

Precisely.

A good campaign would have anticipated the issue and would have had an honest but nuanced reply at the ready.

A campaign is not a Political Science lecture.

A good response could have been something along the lines of:

"It is not the Federal Government's job to tell Farmers what crops to grow, and that is exactly what a subsidy does - it locks farmers into raising those crops which attract the highest subsidies out of someone else's pocket. It is unfair to the farmer and to the person whose pocket is being picked for the subsidy, and it is NOT one of the Federal Government's Constitutionally defined duties. I do favor lower taxes which do not penalize farmers for being successful."

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-01-03   23:50:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#352. To: Original_Intent (#341)

A good response could have been something along the lines of:

"It is not the Federal Government's job to tell Farmers what crops to grow, and that is exactly what a subsidy does - it locks farmers into raising those crops which attract the highest subsidies out of someone else's pocket. It is unfair to the farmer and to the person whose pocket is being picked for the subsidy, and it is NOT one of the Federal Government's Constitutionally defined duties. I do favor lower taxes which do not penalize farmers for being successful."

You're a great "straight man".

That's sounds right out of Ron's (political science) play book.

Try this one on for size for a "contendah":

"I do not believe corn based ethanol is a good economic answer to the energy crisis (big Huckabee smile) but if I were your Congressman, I would most certainly forward your wishes to the floor in the form of a bill. (Another big Huckabee smile).

iconoclast  posted on  2008-01-04   0:08:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#355. To: iconoclast (#352)

It really depends on what you are trying to accomplish. There is a difference between a political answer and an honest answer. Ron Paul is what he is, and I am what I am. The reason I like him, and was a supporter long before this campaign was even hinted at, is that willingness to stand on principle and tell it the way it is.

Farm subsidies are not a favor to the farmer. It is nothing more than welfare farming. That suckers can't, or don't, get it is why they are suckers and will remain chattels. As long as you play to their ignorance they will remain ignorant. Of course one can't put is so bluntly, but you can only go so far and remain true to your principles.

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-01-04   0:16:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#371. To: Original_Intent (#355)

It really depends on what you are trying to accomplish. There is a difference between a political answer and an honest answer.

I'm trying to draw the distinction between a schoolmarm approach and an honest but non hectoring approach.

A spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down ... Mary Poppins.

I don't disagree with you on principles OI, but what good did preaching to the choir ever do?

iconoclast  posted on  2008-01-04   0:44:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#376. To: iconoclast (#371)

I'm trying to draw the distinction between a schoolmarm approach and an honest but non hectoring approach.

Point granted, and you are most correct - in that making someone wrong is not going to win their support - in most cases it'll just make'em stubborn.

I think buckeye has a point too - in that you could phrase eliminating subsidies as a positive - which I was trying to do.

I know though, realistically, that eliminating farm subsidies in the "Farm Belt" is about as popular as a Skunk at a Square Dance. However, all the subsidies do is reward farmers for an inefficient use of their time and land. I know farmers do not like to change crops, but if over production exists then, failing subsidies, they are forced to learn a new crop - or more than one.

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-01-04   1:05:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#377. To: Original_Intent (#376)

in that making someone wrong is not going to win their support - in most cases it'll just make'em stubborn.

You must have read "How To Win Friends And Influence People" by Dale Carnegie, a classic to this day in people skills.

X-15  posted on  2008-01-04   1:12:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 377.

#378. To: X-15 (#377)

Truthfully - I learned it from a friend, but experience has taught me that it is true.

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-01-04 01:16:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 377.

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