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Title: Live Iowa Caucus Thread
Source:
Live CSPAN Republican Caucus Coverage
URL Source: http://play.rbn.com/play.asx?url=cs ... n2v.asf&proto=mms?mswmext=.asx
Published: Jan 3, 2008
Author: Me, I guess
Post Date: 2008-01-03 19:53:13 by Critter
Keywords: None
Views: 14597
Comments: 554
I figured we should have an official caucus thread, no? Click here to view live CSPAN coverage
Poster Comment: Let the discussion begin!
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#502. To: palo verde (#501)
The problem is that the MSM has people convinced that they do not need to boil the ocean, or that they already are. I think we have to crack this nut to win.
I think so. Please pay attention to this: Obama and Huckabee have alerted the media that they ARE the revolution. Do you understand this? I hadn't heard this, but I had heard about Huck stealing RP's message. First, this whole process is a show to keep the sheep believing in a two-party system. I can see where this is leading and it isn't going to be pretty. The fact that I too am a non-violent peaceful sort, doesn't mean I'm going to put my head between my knees and kiss my butt goodbye. I prefer a peaceful world and there is no harm in working as hard as possible to bring about change no matter how small, through it. We are used to practicing war. We are not used to practicing Peace. So we stick to what is familiar, yet creates the most carnage. There is a better way, but we must also work to learn how to get to levers that can create it. I know people will think that is an absolutely nutty position to take. But it hurts no one to try.
Yes, I agree. I think Ron Paul's campaign (and we independently) need to show that there are simple, if not a little difficult, steps to take to change the country for the better that will not be done under any other candidacy. 1. Show the people that the "media-backed rebels" are false. I don't know what else to do, but this should help.
Hi palo, Most of the Ron Paul meetups I've attended involved holding signs and passing out slim-jims (campaign fliers). We get a good response, maybe one in thirty will honk, and maybe one in one hundred will wave and shout in approval.
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
First, this whole process is a show to keep the sheep believing in a two-party system. Yes, I agree. I think Ron Paul's campaign (and we independently) need to show that there are simple, if not a little difficult, steps to take to change the country for the better that will not be done under any other candidacy. 1. Show the people that the "media-backed rebels" are false. 2. Show the people that Ron Paul has a non-revolutionary set of changes that are positive, and that he's honest. I don't know what else to do, but this should help. How would you approach #1? As for #2, I think we already have a very good guide to work from, and RP's record stands solid.
How do the elites do this? Well how do they keep one of these splinters alive? The use fear, uncertainty, doubt, religious appeal, and heart-strings appeals. No doubt they have industrial psychologists advising Obama and Huckabee right now on this very ploy. People will actually vote for Huckabee because they are worried about immigration and he promises to do something about it. I am not kidding! Are we intelligent enough to counter this form of manipulation honestly? Tancredo was the anti-immigration candidate and he got nowhere I am not concerned right now that Obama is being billed as the anti- establishment candidate What we found out in Iowa is all voters now want the anti-establishment candidate We knew from the get-go media would not help us, and would do everything in their power to sabotage us So it comes down to Ron Paul has to get out his message to ALL I don't know what we can do to help Ron Paul get out his message I have no talent in this department that site links to DIGG I just wish I could help in the brainstorming of how his message could reach everyone
Well as I've said, ads are not going to work because the people expect to be told about their candidates by talk programs on TV and radio. And guess who owns that? But here's the general idea:
Huckabee is really Anyone But Ron Paul, so when he speaks of dismantling the IRS the smart GOP operatives see this as a way to co-opt free thinking.
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
Most of the Ron Paul meetups I've attended involved holding signs and passing out slim-jims (campaign fliers). We get a good response, maybe one in thirty will honk, and maybe one in one hundred will wave and shout in approval. excellent Dakmar, that is great I will say the only yard-signs I have seen in Tucson are for Ron Paul
You're wrong about this Palo. Americans are very afraid of illegal immigration. Their fears are easy to use against them though. Consider the fear that was raised about terrorism after 9/11. Americans decided to give Bush a pass on the Iraq invasion, which would not prevent any future terror, and might have encouraged more. See the pattern? Illegal immigration has been tolerated by the Establishment much to the harm of America. Yet the very fears it has raised will be easily coopted by the splinter "pseudo-rebels." You and I know that Ron Paul's views of illegal immigration are more sophisticated than that, and he wants to solve the problem with real economic reforms. Again, the proper formula is to go on the attack. Change the debate! Point out that someone is stealing the terms of the debate, if necessary. We would be foolish to expect anything from the media now This is wrong, Palo. Without the media, your true peaceful revolution will not happen. You can take that to the bank. But we have something on our side. It's a secret weapon. And you are one of the best people to wield it. Journalists and educators love to think that they are very fair. I heard Gretta Sustern complaining that she thought that Ron Paul deserved airtime, and that was the American way. We used to think of ourselves as a very fair people, before your time. We still are, and journalists go into their fields to uphold these values. Someone else comes along and takes that love away from them. We can awaken it. I think you are a MASTER at awakening a sense of fairness in people. I'm going to give you an assignment, if you are willing to accept. Why don't you pick three top journalistic media personalities each of whom you believe has a strain of fairness, or the potential to have it awakened, and make it your personal mission to contact their offices with the idea of persuading them to give Ron Paul effective, honest, and critical coverage? No need for their flattery. No need for them to hide anything. Just give him coverage. I think you can do it.
That is their formula. With the media driving their message for them, we will lose. I say again, we will lose.
I'm glad you came back to brighten up the Ron Paul threads around here. There can't be any doom and gloom with Palo around. hehehe
Tag Line For Rent
1. Show the people that the "media-backed rebels" are false. I don't know what else to do, but this should help. that was the other insight I had last week it is important what you say about Ron Paul's honesty I personally don't think it is possible to show anyone anything
awwww Critter, what a honey bunch you are
Caucusing at malls and berms isn't everyone's idea of a good time, I get it. Have you given any thought to helping with letter writing campaign?
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
Of course it is! But keep in mind that the SHOWING is done via the media, to a large extent. This is why we need to keep a very strong focus on encouraging them to cover the story of the century.
That vid is outstanding and heartbreaking. Whoever put it together did an excellent job. It does drag, so how can this be reassembled for max impact to match the attention span of voters. That's the question. I like a total picture of his record, but in snapshots rather than novel form. A few alternate versions of the same with added information. I can almost see it in my mind with a Huck v Paul bullet to bullet montage (I hate that word). But the imagery behind it can carry the message farther than the words. I'm thinking.
People will only see it when they are ready to wake up.
I think you can do it. Brit Hume is honest and fair Altho in the midde of the bombardment of emails about this, I did say to him that he gives the best interviews of everyone Brit Hume is the news director at Fox I don't know who else to write to, because so many of the others lost my trust during the clinton Impeachment Of course I have not watched TV since I went on net in Jan 2000 Love, Palo
Whoops, forgot to add you Palo! Sorry.
Goodnight all!
Not that I know. They probably won't. And in any case, that's symptomatic of a larger set of issues. You're an articulate person with a lot of persuasive power. I think you can strike a chord in the conscience of one or more senior journalist/editors and persuade him/her to take strong action.
Good night to you, too!
(buckeye) Of course it is! (Peppa) People will only see it when they are ready to wake up. I agree with you Peppa
good night darling Peppa
The voters have to KNOW who Ron Paul is, first. Ads alone won't do it. The Internet alone won't do it. I'm not being dark and gloomy, I'm problem-solving here. I'd rather talk details and situations, and plan effective action than dream.
(buckeye) Of course it is! it's the story of the millennium Big media, both Parties, and the military industrial complex are all in bed with each other I will think about this some more, but right now I don't see how big media will give Ron Paul a fair shake? Glen Beck did a nice interview with Ron Paul on New Years Day Are you committed to the idea we can't win without big media
As I've suggested, persuasive, enchanting, and sweet people like you should sign up to persuade them that they are being unfair and conspiratorial if they don't cover Ron Paul's story. Are you committed to the idea we can't win without big media Not at all. I'm an optimist, otherwise you would never have encountered me on these boards.
Hi sweetheart I am sorry to be such a couch potato for Ron Paul now I have Ron Paul bumper stickers front and back bumpers on both truck and 2nd hand car the election season has just begun
I don't particularly think I'm ready for 'grocery cart chic', Well he claims he actually lives in a tree stump so I have to suppose the grocery cart is his holiday recreational vehicle. He is however a good retirement financial specialist.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I'm not being dark and gloomy, I'm problem-solving here. I'd rather talk details and situations, and plan effective action than dream. I agree with you Ron Paul has a ton of dough now why is that not a good idea? Love, Palo
We gave out 50 or so last Saturday at gun show, and some on Sunday too I'd guess but wasn't there. If you show up at a meetup someone will likely have a spare sign, otherwise they can be ordered, but it costs less to buy in bulk.
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
It's fine, but Americans have always believed that the press was the fourth estate. They don't trust infomercials. That's how phony weight loss and get rich schemes are sold. We need compelling talk show and 6pm coverage. By the way, a special on PBS earlier tonight was talking about how Obama's campaigners are using beauty salons to spread the word about their candidate. You might have similar clues about your world.
leading up to the clinton Impeachment I wrote letters, real letters not email to every journalist every single day when I tried to stop the bombing of Yugoslavia, again I wrote letters (snail mail) every day now I think there must be a willingness first, before a letter can communicate
I'm not sure that letters are the best. Phone calls are a way to say, "Let me come to your office and meet you for 30 minutes and talk about this."
(Dakmar) We gave out 50 or so last Saturday at gun show, and some on Sunday too I'd guess but wasn't there. If you show up at a meetup someone will likely have a spare sign, otherwise they can be ordered, but it costs less to buy in bulk. thanks Dakmnar I have been wanting a Ron Paul yardsign with all my heart since he announced his candidacy
Ron Paul has a ton of dough now why not go for ads and infomercials paid tv time It's fine, but Americans have always believed that the press was the fourth estate. They don't trust infomercials. That's how phony weight loss and get rich schemes are sold. We need compelling talk show and 6pm coverage. By the way, a special on PBS earlier tonight was talking about how Obama's campaigners are using beauty salons to spread the word about their candidate. You might have similar clues about your world. no one heard of women's liberation till women's libbers protested the Miss America Contest and burnt their bras but of course the media loved it, it was so much fun as you pointed out, this (Ron Paul) is the story of the century but you are right some creative thinking into action should happen now I will start to put my thinking cap on
Doesn't smell right to me, but he is a Zionist supporter so........
"Satan / Cheney in "08" You are correct on that PV. I went to HS with Mike and he is (was?)a good guy person to person, but is a state loving authoritarian. If you like the way things have been going Mike's the man for you. And a apostate Christian.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" Think hard out there - after the bras, what else is there to burn? Once the puppies are freed, is much else left tethered?
Join the Ron Paul Revolution I have the answer, but it would take REAL men to carry out the plan.
Tag Line For Rent
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#503. To: buckeye (#500)
Are we intelligent enough to counter this form of manipulation honestly?
#504. To: Peppa (#503)
First, this whole process is a show to keep the sheep believing in a two-party system.
2. Show the people that Ron Paul has a non-revolutionary set of changes that are positive, and that he's honest.
#505. To: palo verde (#501)
#506. To: buckeye (#504)
To: Peppa
#507. To: buckeye, Peppa, who knows what evil, ALL (#500)
Please pay attention to this: Obama and Huckabee have alerted the media that they ARE the revolution. Do you understand this? I came to understand this sinister effect on TOS. People are led to believe that the "MSM" is in charge, and that small pockets of resistance (e.g. TOS) are leading the velvet junta to throw off the chains. Splinters of leadership are broken away from the "Establishment" to resurface behind these new "movements." They are fake. But they work. People still at TOS think they're the vast right wing conspiracy.
so that issue is not decisive in this election
I will deal with that when Ron Paul has to run against Obama in general election
(both Dem and Pub voters)
We know Ron Paul is the only real McCoy
We would be foolish to expect anything from the media now
they won't help us
because we found out voters want that message and will want him
Love, Palo
it was thought giving him all the money would do it
but obviously it isn't doing it
because the money has to be used to get out his message effectively to ALL
and we don't know if his campaign staff has the talent to do that
but others do
they should post their two cents
and post it on the Ron Paul official site too
but there are others on this forum who do have good ideas on this
I have read their posts
Peppa has some good ideas, and who knows what evil has good ideas too
and so do many others
I am the only one who is not good at this...
#508. To: Peppa (#506)
#509. To: buckeye (#500)
People are led to believe that the "MSM" is in charge, and that small pockets of resistance (e.g. TOS) are leading the velvet junta to throw off the chains. Splinters of leadership are broken away from the "Establishment" to resurface behind these new "movements."
#510. To: Dakmar (#505)
Hi palo,
my Ron Paul meet-up group has been indefatigable
altho I am not a good member
they have an action every week-end
they work non-stop to elect Ron Paul
mostly they hold up signs too, in front of the mall, etc
Love, Palo
#511. To: palo verde (#507)
Tancredo was the anti-immigration candidate and he got nowhere so that issue is not decisive in this election
#512. To: Dakmar (#509)
Anyone But Ron Paul, so when he speaks of dismantling the IRS the smart GOP operatives see this as a way to co-opt free thinking.
#513. To: palo verde (#480)
#514. To: buckeye, Peppa, Dakmar, lodwick, ALL (#504)
(buckeye) I think Ron Paul's campaign (and we independently) need to show that there are simple, if not a little difficult, steps to take to change the country for the better that will not be done under any other candidacy.
2. Show the people that Ron Paul has a non-revolutionary set of changes that are positive, and that he's honest.
you didn't buy my first insight that there is an ocean of support for Ron Paul out there
the second inisght is Ron Paul is the only candidate who cannot be bought off
this is crucial, because it is the one thing needed
I am going by my own experience on this
I was unwilling to be shown anything by anyone
I had to be willing to see it on my own
but once I was willing to see truth, it jumped out at me, it couldn't be missed
#515. To: Critter (#513)
thank you
Love, Palo
#516. To: palo verde (#510)
#517. To: palo verde (#514)
I personally don't think it is possible to show anyone anything
#518. To: buckeye (#508)
This video beats around the bush, though. It should QUOTE Huckabee saying that he's not linked to the elites or the establishment, and then show that taxes are FOR the Establishment, and FOR elite agendas.
#519. To: buckeye (#517)
I personally don't think it is possible to show anyone anything Of course it is!
#520. To: buckeye (#511)
...I'm going to give you an assignment, if you are willing to accept. Why don't you pick three top journalistic media personalities each of whom you believe has a strain of fairness, or the potential to have it awakened, and make it your personal mission to contact their offices with the idea of persuading them to give Ron Paul effective, honest, and critical coverage? No need for their flattery. No need for them to hide anything. Just give him coverage.
I don't know if I can get his ear again, I bombarded him with emails last week
when Ron Paul was excluded from the Fox GOP debate on January 6th
Has Fox reversed that decision yet?
and I would very much like him to interview Ron Paul
he is fair, he is honest
Only Brit Hume held onto it
I became addicted to posting on political forums
maybe there are are new journalists around who are honest and trustworthy
I'll start to watch TV again
#521. To: buckeye, Palo Verde (#519)
I personally don't think it is possible to show anyone anything Of course it is! People will only see it when they are ready to wake up.
#522. To: All (#521)
#523. To: palo verde (#520)
Has Fox reversed that decision yet?
#524. To: Peppa, palo verde (#522)
Goodnight all!
#525. To: Peppa, buckeye, ALL (#519)
(Palo) I don't think it is possible to show anyone anything
People do what they want to do, if they want to see they will see, if they don't want to see they won't
No one can deceive us, we can only deceive ourselves
The truth is always out there to be seen
if we put some other value ahead of truth, we will not see truth
IMHO
Love, Palo
#526. To: Peppa (#522)
Love, Palo
#527. To: palo verde (#525)
People do what they want to do, if they want to see they will see, if they don't want to see they won't
No one can deceive us, we can only deceive ourselves
#528. To: buckeye, Dakmar, critter, all (#517)
(Palo) I personally don't think it is possible to show anyone anything
But keep in mind that the SHOWING is done via the media, to a large extent.
This is why we need to keep a very strong focus on encouraging them to cover the story of the century
but I don't think they will cover it
The military industrial complex sets the foreign policy for our government now to serve their greed
Ron Paul will change all that
and of course Brit Hume is a GREAT interviewer, I would love him to do an interview with Ron Paul. Brit is the best
I say we will win, no matter what big media does do or doesn't do
Love, Palo
#529. To: palo verde (#528)
I will think about this some more, but right now I don't see how big media will give Ron Paul a fair shake?
#530. To: Dakmar (#516)
Caucusing at malls and berms isn't everyone's idea of a good time, I get it. Have you given any thought to helping with letter writing campaign?
I was a political activist in my early twenties
I loved it
I had a ball
political activism is a lot of fun
altho they do say when minds join for truth, nothing can stop it happening
isn't that what we are doing on net together
and I want a Ron Paul yardsign but haven't figured out how to get one
maybe I will be more activist
I hope so
Love, Palo
#531. To: Peppa, yertle turtle (#333)
I was so 'in' until the Yertle Turtle part. ;)
#532. To: buckeye (#527)
The voters have to KNOW who Ron Paul is, first. Ads alone won't do it. The Internet alone won't do it.
the one thing needed now is for everyone to know who Ron Paul is
how to accomplish that I do not know
that is why I am on this thread
to hear others ideas
why not go for ads and infomercials
paid tv time
#533. To: palo verde (#530)
I want a Ron Paul yardsign but haven't figured out how to get one
#534. To: palo verde (#532)
Ron Paul has a ton of dough now why not go for ads and infomercials paid tv time
#535. To: buckeye (#529)
I was on first name basis at post office
I learned a great deal from that experience
which is people do what they want to do, and don't do what they don't want to do
after that I stopped wasting my breath
(I wanted clinton impeached and removed from office with all my heart)
this time just to congressmen and to Brit Hume
but I only wrote to those who were willing to stop it
to urge them on
no?
#536. To: palo verde (#535)
#537. To: Dakmar (#533)
(Palo) I want a Ron Paul yardsign but haven't figured out how to get one
I will show up at the next meet-up action, maybe they will have a sign to give me then
Love, Palo
#538. To: buckeye (#534)
women's lib did a lot of actions after that, but that was the most effective one
and they are deliberately not covering it
#539. To: Peppa (#444)
Does the degree of the Hickabee win make sense to you?
#540. To: palo verde (#467)
A Huckabee win, would not change a thing government would continue to be run for special interests
#541. To: palo verde (#538)
Freedom*Peace*Prosperity
#542. To: palo verde (#538)
but you are right some creative thinking into action should happen now
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