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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: Sibel Edmonds, Turkey and the Bomb - A Real 9/11 Cover-Up?
Source: ICH
URL Source: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19015.htm
Published: Jan 7, 2008
Author: DAVE LINDORFF
Post Date: 2008-01-07 17:54:40 by richard9151
Keywords: None
Views: 322
Comments: 36

07/01/08 "Counterpunch" -- -- If a new article just published Saturday in the Times of London based upon information provided by US government whistleblower Sibel Edmonds, a 37-year-old former Turkish language translator for the FBI, we have not only solid evidence of prior knowledge of 9-11 by high up US government officials, but evidence of treasonous activity by many of those same officials involving efforts to provide US nuclear secrets to America's enemies, even including Al Qaeda.

The story also casts a chilling light on the so-called "accidental" flight of six nuclear-armed cruise missiles aboard an errant B-52 that flew last Aug. 30 from Minot AFB in North Dakota to Barksdale AFB in Shreveport, Louisiana.

The Sunday Times reports that Edmonds, whose whistleblowing efforts have been studiously ignored by what passes for the news media in American news media, approached the Rupert Murdoch-owned British paper a month ago after reading a report there that an Al-Qaeda leader had been training some of the 9-11 hijackers at a base in Turkey, a US NATO alley, under the noses of the Turkish military.

Edmonds, who was recruited by the FBI after 9-11 because of her Turkish and Farsi language skills, has long been claiming that in her FBI job of covertly monitoring conversations between Turkish, Israeli, Persian and other foreign agents and US contacts, including a backlog of untranslated tapes dating back to 1997, she had heard evidence of "money laundering, drug imports and attempts to acquire nuclear and conventional weapons technology." But the Turkish training for 9-11 rang more alarm bells and made her decide that talking behind closed doors to Congress or the FBI was not enough. She had to go public.

Edmonds claims in the Times that even as she was providing evidence of moles within the US State Department, the Pentagon, and the nuclear weapons establishment, who were providing nuclear secrets for cash, through Turkey, to Pakistan's intelligence agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, agencies within the Bush administration were actively working to block investigation and to shield those who were committing the acts of treason.

Pakistan's ISI is known to have had, and to still maintain close contacts with Al-Qaeda. Indeed, the Times notes that Pakistan's nuclear god-father, General Mahmoud Ahmad, was accused of sanctioning a $100,000 wire payment to Mohammed Atta, one of the 9/11 hijackers, immediately before the attacks.

Edmonds claims, in the Times article, that following the 9-11 attacks, FBI investigators took a number of Turkish and Pakistani operatives into custody for questioning about foreknowledge of the attacks, but that a high-ranking US State Department official repeatedly acted to spirit them out of the country.

Edmonds was fired from her FBI translating job in 2002 after she accused a colleague of having illicit contact with Turkish officials. She has claimed that she was fired for being outspoken, and in 2005 her position was reportedly vindicated by the Office of Inspector General of the FBI, which concluded that she had been sacked for making valid complaints.

One of those whom Edmonds claims in the Times report was being investigated in connection with the nuclear information transfers was Pentagon analyst Lawrence Franklin. Franklin was convicted and jailed in 2006 for passing US defense information to American Israel Public Affairs Committee lobbyists and sharing classified information with an Israeli diplomat. Franklin, in 2001, was part of the Pentagon Office of Special Plans, a kind of shadow intelligence unit set up by the Bush administration inside the Pentagon whose job it was to gin up "evidence" to justify a war against Iraq. In that capacity, he (along with several other OSP members and arch neocon schemer Michael Ledeen) was also identified by Italian investigative journalists working for the newspaper La Republican, as having been at a crucial meeting in December 2001 in Rome with the Italian defense and intelligence service ministers. La Republicca reports that at that meeting a plan was hatched to fob off forged Niger embassy documents as evidence that Iraqi strongman Saddam Hussein was trying to buy uranium ore from Niger.

If Edmonds' story is correct, and Al-Qaeda, with the aid of Turkish government agents and Pakistani intelligence, with the help of US government officials, has been attempting to obtain nuclear materials and nuclear information from the U.S., it casts an even darker shadow over the mysterious and still unexplained incident last August 30, when a B-52 Stratofortress, based at the Minot strategic air base in Minot, ND, against all rules and regulations of 40 years' standing, loaded and flew off with six unrecorded and unaccounted for nuclear-tipped cruise missiles.

That incident only came to public attention because three as yet unidentified Air Force whistleblowers contacted a reporter at the Military Times newspaper, which ran a series of stories about it, some of which were picked up by other US news organizations.

An Air Force investigation into that incident, ordered by Defense Secretary Robert Gates, claimed improbably that the whole thing had been an "accident," but many veterans of the US Air Force and Navy with experience in handling nuclear weapons say that such an explanation is impossible, and argue that there had to have been a chain or orders from above the level of the base commander for such a flight to have occurred.

Incredibly, almost five months after that bizarre incident (which included several as yet unexplained deaths of B-52 pilots and base personnel occurring in the weeks shortly before and after the flight), in which six 150-kiloton warheads went missing for 36 hours, there has been no Congressional investigation and no FBI investigation into what happened.

Yet in view of Edmonds' story to the London Times, alleging that there has been an ongoing, active effort for some years by both Al Qaeda and by agents of two US allies, Turkey and Pakistan, to get US nuclear weapons secrets and even weapons, and that there are treasonous moles at work within the American government and nuclear bureaucracy aiding and abetting those efforts, surely at a minimum, a major public inquiry is called for.

Meanwhile, there is enough in just this one London Times story to keep an army of investigative reporters busy for years. So why, one has to ask, is this story appearing in a highly respected British newspaper, but not anywhere in the corporate US media?

Dave Lindorff is the author of Killing Time: an Investigation into the Death Row Case of Mumia Abu-Jamal. His n book of CounterPunch columns titled "This Can't be Happening!" is published by Common Courage Press. Lindorff's newest book is "The Case for Impeachment", co-authored by Barbara Olshansky.

He can be reached at: dlindorff@yahoo.com

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#1. To: richard9151 (#0) (Edited)

Outrageous BS! I knew she was a plant!

Israel and Neocons did 9/11, Sibel is a joke.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-01-07   18:28:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: RickyJ (#1)

Israel and Neocons did 9/11, Sibel is a joke.

Since Turkey is an Israeli client state, and we all know, esp. now, what Pakistan is, what is your point?

She said; Israel and Neocons did 9/11. End of story.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-01-07   19:36:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: richard9151 (#0) (Edited)

If Edmonds' story is correct, and Al-Qaeda, with the aid of Turkish government agents and Pakistani intelligence, with the help of US government officials, has been attempting to obtain nuclear materials and nuclear information from the U.S.,

Do you even know what and who Al-Qaeda is? They are an imaginary group made up by the CIA. They don't exist. Sibel is peddling propaganda.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-01-07   19:53:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: RickyJ, palo verde (#3)

Sibel is peddling propaganda.

Aside from your specifics, I have raised this concern, as well. She has 'information' which could mean anything.

buckeye  posted on  2008-01-07   20:03:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: buckeye (#4)

When was Valerie Plame outed?

I think Plame was about to out same group Sibel was translating.

'Tis a shame we're left to rely solely on Israeli intel, but what the hell...

"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2008-01-07   20:07:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: RickyJ (#3)

Al-Qaeda is

Means the base. The words, that is. As to if Al-Qaeda exists, I think it certainly does, as a CIA front. That does not detract from the existance of Air America or any of the other fronts that the CIA maintains/has used over the last 60 years; they are real, and, they do real damage.

If you would simply read the paragraph above correctly, it would come clear for you;

If Edmonds' story is correct, and Al-Qaeda CIA front organization, with the aid of Turkish government agents and Pakistani intelligence, with the help of US government officials, has been attempting to obtain nuclear materials and nuclear information from the U.S.,

After all, there is not that much unknown about the CIA ties into Pakistan and Turkey, not to mention Israel. Makes perfect sense to me. But if you are confused, simply do an internet search on the CIA and drugs in the US. With the record of the CIA, it is not that hard to understand that they would do anything their masters wanted done.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-01-07   20:20:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: richard9151 (#6)

After all, there is not that much unknown about the CIA ties into Pakistan and Turkey, not to mention Israel.

Turkey and Israel are very very close. Have been that way before Izzy was established - the Young Turks were not all Turkish...

scrapper2  posted on  2008-01-07   20:31:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: scrapper2 (#7) (Edited)

the Young Turks were not all Turkish...

LOL!! Excellent way to put it! And I am quite sure, without bothering to research it, that the Brits had more than a little to do with the who/what/when of how the current power structure in Turkey was formed.

And by-the-way, that also explains why the US was so low key when the Turks just recently bombed the US 'allies' in Iraq. (That is for those of you who did not understand what was going on.)

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-01-07   20:39:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Dakmar (#5)

When was Valerie Plame outed?

"Robert Novak identified "Wilson's wife" publicly as "an agency operative on weapons of mass destruction" named "Valerie Plame" in his syndicated column in The Washington Post." -- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

As Ron Paul says, we have spent a lot of money on intelligence, but we need intelligent people to interpret it.

buckeye  posted on  2008-01-07   22:32:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: RickyJ, richard9151, buckeye, scrapper2 (#1)

from Cannonfire:

The former FBI translator has named all the individuals who -- she says -- played a role in the convoluted tale of treasonous activity that she uncovered while working for the Bureau. The information comes to us in an interesting way: She provided photos, and lukery provides names. As added value, I'm including a few biographical details. (Larisa Alexandrovna offers her own list here.)

Here they are:

1. Pentagon and State Department officials...

Richard Perle: Chairman of the Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee (2001- 2003), leading member of neocon groups PNAC, JINSA and WINEP.(He's a registered Democrat, believe it or not, out of respect for Scoop Jackson.)

Douglas Feith: Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, 2001-2005; head of the Office of Special Plans (Pentagon intel/propaganda unit accused of using forged evidence); JINSA.

Eric Edelman: Principal Deputy Assistant to the Vice President for National Security Affairs (2001-2003); former U.S. Ambassador to Turkey (2003-2005); current Under Secretary of Defense for Policy.

Marc Grossman: United States Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs (2001-2005) Met with Pakistan's notorious intelligence head, General Mahmoud Ahmed, just before September 11, 2001.

Brent Scowcroft: Chairman of the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (2001-2005). Founder of the Scowcroft Group and The Forum for International Policy.

Larry Franklin: Officer in the Office of Special Plans, guilty to disclosing classified information to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)

2. Congress- critters...

Dennis Hastert: R-IL. House Speaker 1999-2005. (The only Speaker to last longer in the job than -- urp! -- Joseph Cannon.) Connected to Abramoff scandal.

Roy Blunt:
R-MO. House member from 1997; current House Minority Whip. Heavily tied to the tobacco industry nand to Tom Delay; considered one of the most corrupt members of Congress.

Dan Burton: R- IN. House member since 1983. Notorious for going on lobbyist-funded golf junkets and for voting against bills that would prevent lobbyist bribery. (He once recommended placing an aircraft carrier off the coast of Bolivia, a land- locked country.)

Tom Lantos: D-CA. Representing San Mateo in the House since 1981; will soon step down due to illness. Holocaust survivor and fighter in the anti-Nazi underground. Chairman of the United States House Committee on Foreign Affairs.

Bob Livingston: R- LA. House Member 1977-1999; resigned over revelation of extramarital affairs. Since then, he has been a lobbyist, operating on behalf of Turkey.

Stephen Solarz: D- NY. House member 1975–1993; National Democratic Institute for International Affairs; Intellibridge.

3. Think tankers -- primarily the Washington Institute on Near East Policy, WINEP...

Graham E. Fuller: RAND. (I'm not sure of the role played by RAND in Sibel's story, but Larisa has advised readers to pay special attention here.) From this bio: "an independent writer, analyst, lecturer and consultant on Muslim World affairs and Adjunct Professor of History at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver."

David Makovsky: WINEP. CFR. American scholar and Israeli journalist. Former editor of The Jerusalem Post. Bio here. "In March 1995, with assistance from U.S. officials, Mr. Makovsky was given unprecedented permission to file reports for an Israeli publication from Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

Alan Makovsky: WINEP. (Not sure of his relationship to David.) State Department veteran; specialist in Turkish affairs.

Yusuf Turani:
This bio is pretty fascinating. He grew up under harsh conditions in a labor camp in Eastern Turkistan, which was under the control of China. He later stayed in Saudi Arabia and Turkey, then moved to the United States, where he became a physics teacher and a musician. He has devoted himself to freeing his homeland.

Professor Sabri Sayari: Georgetown, WINEP, RAND. Executive Director of the Institute of Turkish Studies and a Research Professor in the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University.

Mehmet Eymur: Connected to the MIT, Turkey's National Intelligence Organization (Turkey's CIA). Lukery incorrectly labels him the former head of the MIT; he actually directed the Department for Counter-Espionage. Forced out in 1987. Accused of involvement in the bloody Taksim Square Massacre of May 1 1977 and the March 30, 1972 Kizildere massacre. Linked with Operation Gladio, the Grey Wolves and other Turkish ultra-nationalist groups; see here, where he is accused of heading an "illegal group" within MIT. (I'm not nearly as informed on Tukish history as I ought to be; however, I am reminded of the parallel situation in Italy's SISMI.)

No American publication has touched the story. You can't even get the internet publications to talk about this stuff -- not Salon, not Slate, not TPM, not the larger bloggers.

Yet the story has been covered by Haaretz in Israel, by the Times of India, by The Australian, and even by Pakistan's Daily Times.

I guess Americans aren't supposed to know about treason committed by American officials.

"We shall have world government whether or not you like it - by conquest or consent." - International financier and CFR member James Warburg Feb. 7, 1950

j.sulli  posted on  2008-01-08   0:07:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: RickyJ, richard9151, buckeye, scrapper2 (#10)

Israel, Turkey and Pakistan, she says, have planted moles in ultra-secure United States institutions involving our nuclear security -- including Los Alamos. (According to Joseph Trento, Pakistan has acted as something of a "cut out" for Saudi Arabia on nucelar matters.)

“If you made public all the information that the FBI have on this case, you will see very high-level people going through criminal trials,” she said.

Her story shows just how much the West was infiltrated by foreign states seeking nuclear secrets. It illustrates how western government officials turned a blind eye to, or were even helping, countries such as Pakistan acquire bomb technology.

The wider nuclear network has been monitored for many years by a joint Anglo- American intelligence effort. But rather than shut it down, investigations by law enforcement bodies such as the FBI and Britain’s Revenue & Customs have been aborted to preserve diplomatic relations.

The moles were not just protected -- they were aided by high-ranking U.S. personnel.

The Turks and Israelis had planted “moles” in military and academic institutions which handled nuclear technology. Edmonds says there were several transactions of nuclear material every month, with the Pakistanis being among the eventual buyers. “The network appeared to be obtaining information from every nuclear agency in the United States,” she said. They were helped, she says, by the high-ranking State Department official who provided some of their moles – mainly PhD students – with security clearance to work in sensitive nuclear research facilities.

Why would Americans do such thing? Good old-fashioned bribery plays a large part...

In one conversation Edmonds heard the official arranging to pick up a $15,000 cash bribe. The package was to be dropped off at an agreed location by someone in the Turkish diplomatic community who was working for the network. The Turks, she says, often acted as a conduit for the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), Pakistan’s spy agency, because they were less likely to attract suspicion. Venues such as the American Turkish Council in Washington were used to drop off the cash, which was picked up by the official.

Sibel brings in a name that should be very familiar

The Pakistani operation was led by General Mahmoud Ahmad, then the ISI chief. Intercepted communications showed Ahmad and his colleagues stationed in Washington were in constant contact with attachés in the Turkish embassy. Intelligence analysts say that members of the ISI were close to Al-Qaeda before and after 9/11.

Ahmad -- or Ahmed, the transliteration more often seen -- has been persuasively accused of funneling $100,000 to Mohammed Atta. Although he no longer controls the Pakistani equivalent of the CIA, Ahmed has been called the major player in Pakistan's enormous drug trade.

More than any other Pakistani, Ahmed was responsible for the creation of the Taliban. There are those who say that he arranged the escape of Osama Bin Laden and comrades into his country; others say that Ahmed is the real leader of Al Qaeda.

Benazir Bhutto blamed Ahmed for the first assassination attempt against her. We may never know if he engineered the attack that succeeded.

How the hell could Ahmed get away with all of this? This man's name should be as notorious as Osama Bin Laden's -- yet few Americans have heard of him. Why?

The series of bribes outlined by Sibel Edmonds goes some ways toward offering an explanation. But the strange fact is that Ahmad has also maintained strong ties to the American neoconservative movement.

The ISI Director worked closely with the CIA for many years, and it is known that he met with Richard Armitage, a key player in the Reagan, Bush I and Bush II administrations. (Armitage helped stop Valerie Plame's efforts against nuke proliferation, and signed the infamous PNAC letter which laid the groundwork for the Iraq debacle.)

Back to the Times story:

The results of the espionage were almost certainly passed to Abdul Qadeer Khan, the Pakistani nuclear scientist. Khan was close to Ahmad and the ISI. While running Pakistan’s nuclear programme, he became a millionaire by selling atomic secrets to Libya, Iran and North Korea. He also used a network of companies in America and Britain to obtain components for a nuclear programme.

Get the picture? Valerie Plame was trying to stop Khan in his tracks. But Armitage stopped Valerie Plame in her tracks. Armitage and his neocon comrades are good buddies with Mehmood Ahmad, who was engineering this trade in nukes.

Edmonds was later to see the scope of the Pakistani connections when it was revealed that one of her fellow translators at the FBI was the daughter of a Pakistani embassy official who worked for Ahmad. The translator was given top secret clearance despite protests from FBI investigators.

The FBI's behavior cannot be excused as mere sloppiness.

The times received substantial confirmation of Edmonds' story from CIA and FBI sources:

One of the CIA sources confirmed that the Turks had acquired nuclear secrets from the United States and shared the information with Pakistan and Israel. “We have no indication that Turkey has its own nuclear ambitions. But the Turks are traders. To my knowledge they became big players in the late 1990s,” the source said.

Some of the most intriguing material appears at the beginning of the Times piece.

She approached The Sunday Times last month after reading about an Al-Qaeda terrorist who had revealed his role in training some of the 9/11 hijackers while he was in Turkey.

The reference almost certainly goes to Louai al-Sakka, whom we have dealt with before. As we detailed in our earlier post, Sakka (or Sakra) was almost certainly giving information to Western intelligence in 2001, at which point he was in Germany. Later, in 2005, while he languished in a Turkish prison, he was visited by a group of Americans who promised him freedom if he testified falsely against Syria -- or so he has claimed.

The strange pattern keeps repeating itself: The terrorists have ties to factions within the American security apparat.

The Times has not published all of Sibel Edmonds' story. She fingers one well- known State Department official as a recipient of Turkish bribes. The accused individual strongly denies the claim, and the Times will not publish his name. (Libel laws are more stringent in the U.K.)

However, Edmonds said: “He was aiding foreign operatives against US interests by passing them highly classified information, not only from the State Department but also from the Pentagon, in exchange for money, position and political objectives.” She claims that the FBI was also gathering evidence against senior Pentagon officials – including household names – who were aiding foreign agents.

Who can the mystery man be? I'm thinking either Armitage -- who is second-in- command at State -- or Marc Grossman, who was United States Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs from 2001. Grossman also played a still-nebulous role in Plame-gate. Not only that: He met with General Ahmed on or around September 11, 2001!

"We shall have world government whether or not you like it - by conquest or consent." - International financier and CFR member James Warburg Feb. 7, 1950

j.sulli  posted on  2008-01-08   0:27:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: j.sulli (#10)

named all the individuals who -- she says --

Excellent, excellent post and additional information.

The one thing I would add is to the above; named all the individuals who -- she says -- that she knows of

I am quite sure that this is simply the tip of the iceburg.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-01-08   10:09:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: richard9151 (#0) (Edited)

Would the governments -- or at least powerful elements within the governments -- of Pakistan, Turkey, Israel, and Saudi Arabia (the London Times article doesn't mention this last country) have participated in an operation on U.S. soil like 9/11 without a green light from Washington?

CORRECTION: The Times story does mention two Saudi businessmen playing a minor role in all of this at one point, but that is all.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-01-08   11:05:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Dakmar (#5)

When was Valerie Plame outed?

I think Plame was about to out same group Sibel was translating.

'Tis a shame we're left to rely solely on Israeli intel, but what the hell...

bump that

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
The Revolution will not be televised!

robin  posted on  2008-01-08   11:06:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: RickyJ (#1)

Outrageous BS! I knew she was a plant!

Israel and Neocons did 9/11, Sibel is a joke.

The Times of London story makes perfectly clear that there was a prominent Israeli role in all this. Most of the people Sibel Edmonds names (although the article doesn't quite name names) are neocons.

If anyone was trying to cover up an Israeli/neocon role, they would tell a different story.

It is Saudi Arabia that the Times of London story conspicuously fails to mention (except at one minor point.)

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-01-08   11:08:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: aristeides (#15)

If another power faction is trying to loosen the grip of the Bush Regime by printing this story, who would it be, that is allowed to use Murdoch's paper as a vehicle? (and as you pointed out the Times also printed the Downing Street Memos)

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
The Revolution will not be televised!

robin  posted on  2008-01-08   11:14:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: robin (#16)

George Soros is one name that comes to mind.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-01-08   11:19:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: j.sulli (#11)

Who can the mystery man be? I'm thinking either Armitage -- who is second-in- command at State -- or Marc Grossman, who was United States Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs from 2001.

Other sources have made it clear that the mystery man is Grossman. Look, for example, at BRAD BLOG's page on the Times of London story.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-01-08   11:22:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: aristeides, ALL (#18)

Other sources have made it clear that the mystery man is Grossman

I read somewhere that Sibel Edmonds did name Marc Grossman somewhere
I too think he is the mystery man

palo verde  posted on  2008-01-08   12:03:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: j.sulli (#11)

Who can the mystery man be?
I'm thinking either Armitage -- who is second-in- command at State --
or Marc Grossman, who was United States Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs from 2001.
Grossman also played a still-nebulous role in Plame-gate. Not only that: He met with General Ahmed on or around September 11, 2001

I have heard that Sibel Edmonds named Marc Grossman as the mystery man

palo verde  posted on  2008-01-08   12:06:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: palo verde, j.sulli (#20)

Not only that: He met with General Ahmed on or around September 11, 2001

Gen. Ahmad met with a lot of people during that visit to D.C. He met with Tenet. He was meeting with the chairmen of the congressional intel committees on Capitol Hill the very morning of 9/11.

Busy man.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-01-08   12:08:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: j.sulli, aristeides, ALL (#20)

(Palo) I found this posted on another forum yesterday, while I was lurking there
I hope it helps
Love, Palo

Sibel Edmonds names Marc Grossman!
Credibility Attested to by Sen. Grassley!

See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cm-uRQmfUU

I watched this great interview with Sibel when it was first posted on net
I had not remembered she named Marc Grossman in it
but poster says she did, anyone can watch it for themselves
Love, Palo

palo verde  posted on  2008-01-08   12:16:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: aristeides (#15) (Edited)

Nuclear secret role, not a 9/11 role. She is not saying they did 9/11, just that they didn't stop it. She is going along with the official story that AlQueda did 9/11. Sorry, I will never buy that. 9/11 had to be an inside job. It was not allowed to happen, it was planned and carried out by our own damn government!

You can believe Sibel if you want to. I find nothing credible about her or her story.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-01-09   4:38:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: richard9151 (#0) (Edited)

The Sunday Times reports that Edmonds, whose whistleblowing efforts have been studiously ignored by what passes for the news media in American news media, approached the Rupert Murdoch-owned British paper a month ago after reading a report there that an Al-Qaeda leader had been training some of the 9-11 hijackers at a base in Turkey, a US NATO alley, under the noses of the Turkish military.

No one can prove that there were any hijackers that day. No one can prove that those flights even hit the towers or the Pentagon. We only have proof that two jet airplanes hit the towers, we have no idea what hit the Pentagon, if anything, they won't release the videos.

Anyone that thinks a group by the name of Al-Queada did 9/11 is not thinking clearly. They couldn't have done it. They couldn't have given orders for our airforce to stand down. They couldn't have placed the explosives in those three buildings to bring them down. If they somehow were able to place the explosives in the buildings to bring them down then it would make no sense whatsoever for the government to cover that up. Yet they did! They covered it up becasue they did it! Yes the Israeli government had something to do with 9/11, the Federal reserve had something to do with it too, but our own government, which is largely controlled by the Fed and Israel, also had a very significant involvement in it as well.

This nuclear secret story thrown in with the propaganda that Al-Queada had something to do with 9/11 is only meant to take the heat off of the real culprits of 9/11. No one is going to believe this nuclear secret story anyway. It makes no sense. Pakistan has their own nuclear weapons, as does Israel, they don't need our secrets. Turkey doesn't have nukes so why would they be trying to get secrets for Al-Queada when they could use the info themselves? It just doesn't add up to anything but propaganda to me. I have always wondered why so many were waiting to hear what this woman had to say. To me it was obvious she was a dis-info agent.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-01-09   5:21:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: j.sulli (#11)

....The world's conspiracy buffs are too dazzled by their beloved pseudoscience to follow this tale of spookery. Frankly, most buffs simply lack the intelligence to follow any complex storyline. Alex Jones and other "low-IQ, high-paranoia" types fetch the big audiences, while the extraordinary work of Paul Thompson remains largely ignored......

Great post and good to see you drop in. The above I took from one of your links. This is how one finds out the who, what and why behind 911.

Mark

If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower

Kamala  posted on  2008-01-09   7:10:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Kamala (#25)

....The world's conspiracy buffs are too dazzled by their beloved pseudoscience to follow this tale of spookery. Frankly, most buffs simply lack the intelligence to follow any complex storyline. Alex Jones and other "low-IQ, high-paranoia" types fetch the big audiences, while the extraordinary work of Paul Thompson remains largely ignored......

Great post and good to see you drop in. The above I took from one of your links. This is how one finds out the who, what and why behind 911.

That's how you find it? Only if you believe it. What makes you believe this tale?

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-01-09   7:35:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: RickyJ, Kamala (#26)

Crypto Jews and Crypto Zionists

"You can not save the Constitution by destroying it."

Itisa1mosttoolate  posted on  2008-01-09   7:49:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: RickyJ (#26)

No, Ricky, why don't YOU explain the REAL how, why and the who behind 911.

I've stated on recent previous threads what 911 is really about. Lets see YOUR thumbnail breakdown.

Mark

If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower

Kamala  posted on  2008-01-09   7:53:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: RickyJ, Kamala (#26)

Will you help expose the corruption?

Here are some videos and ideas to introduce people to the corruption we suffer from.

Short videos:

Israel is not the Ashkenazi Homeland
www.erichufschmid.net/TFC...el-not-their-Homeland.wmv

If Korea had attacked on 9/11; Jews need to back off!
www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/video/Back-Off-Jews.wmv

Ernst Zundel, Mike Rivero, and the Holocaust
www.erichufschmid.net/TFC...locaust-Zundel-Rivero.wmv

The Northwoods Document , Jon Stewart, propaganda
www.erichufschmid.net/TFC...orthwoods-Jon-Stewart.wmv

Dr. Bill Deagle is typical of 'truth seekers'; he lies!
www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/video/Doctor-Bill-Deagle.wmv

What is a False Flag?
www.erichufschmid.net/TFC.../What-is-a-False-Flag.wmv

Why is slavery the fastest-growing industry?
www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/video/Slavery-is-growing.wmv

Victor Ostrovsky; an ex-mossad agent?
www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/video/Victor-Ostrovsky.wmv

I have a more information about Ostrovsky here:
www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/deception.html#Victor

"You can not save the Constitution by destroying it."

Itisa1mosttoolate  posted on  2008-01-09   8:57:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Kamala (#28)

No, Ricky, why don't YOU explain the REAL how, why and the who behind 911.

I've stated on recent previous threads what 911 is really about. Lets see YOUR thumbnail breakdown.

I asked you why you believe that tale.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-01-09   9:03:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: RickyJ (#24)

This nuclear secret story thrown in with the propaganda that Al-Queada had something to do with 9/11 is only meant to take the heat off of the real culprits of 9/11.

Richy, please, grow up. No one says that a bunch of camel/goat hearders from Afganistan pulled this off. There is no doubt that Al-Queda is a CIA front, as I have already stated. In another thread in 4um, it was talked about that in Annapolis (the military school), an analysis was done of Al-queda in Iraq, and they came up with a number of between 6,000 and 8,000 members. Whooppee!!! That should be enough to tie down 160,000 US troops and countless mercenaries, right?

So just get over it, OK? As little overall understanding as there is in 4um, how would you expect this woman to 'get it?' I suggest, for your assignment today, that you review the post I just did;

Debtor Nation -- The Hijacking of America’s Economy

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-01-09   11:18:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Itisa1mosttoolate, kamala, christine (#29)

Here are some videos and ideas to introduce people to the corruption we suffer from.

Here, add this in for better understanding, just posted today;

Debtor Nation -- The Hijacking of America’s Economy

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-01-09   11:20:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Kamala (#25)

....The world's conspiracy buffs are too dazzled by their beloved pseudoscience to follow this tale of spookery. Frankly, most buffs simply lack the intelligence to follow any complex storyline. Alex Jones and other "low-IQ, high-paranoia" types fetch the big audiences, while the extraordinary work of Paul Thompson remains largely ignored......

Thanks Mark.
You should add cannonfire to your reading list. There is some great research buried in there.
Check out the new WTC7 post....

"We shall have world government whether or not you like it - by conquest or consent." - International financier and CFR member James Warburg Feb. 7, 1950

j.sulli  posted on  2008-01-09   21:57:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: richard9151 (#31)

So just get over it, OK?

Get over what? A tall tale by a dis-info artist? Please, there is nothing to get over.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-01-10   4:26:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: j.sulli (#33) (Edited)

....The world's conspiracy buffs are too dazzled by their beloved pseudoscience to follow this tale of spookery. Frankly, most buffs simply lack the intelligence to follow any complex storyline. Alex Jones and other "low-IQ, high-paranoia" types fetch the big audiences, while the extraordinary work of Paul Thompson remains largely ignored......

Thanks Mark. You should add cannonfire to your reading list. There is some great research buried in there. Check out the new WTC7 post....

Did you read what was just under that paragraph?


By endlessly repeating the baseless mantra that Al Qaeda had nothing to do with 9/11, the infantile CD-ers have successfully diverted journalists and the public from inquiring about the complicated links between Al Qaeda and various factions within western intelligence.

Al Queada did have nothing of significance to do with 9/11. How do I know this? No investigation of the causes of the WTC towers collapse, that's how. If Al-Queada somehow did set up the explosives in those buildings then there would be no reason to cover it up, since that would only make the war more justifiable against them. They covered it up becasue it wasn't Al-Queada that did it, powerful elements within our own government did it themselves. I know that is hard for most Americans to comprehend, but it is what all the known evidence points to from the facts of that day.

Why is it important that Al-Queada take the blame even if Sibel says certain people in our government and military allowed them to do it? Because it still justifies the war against them, that's why. That's what 9/11 was all about to start with, the damn endless war against the mysterious bogey men terrorists.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-01-10   4:44:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: j.sulli (#33)

http://www.chris-floyd.com/Artic...and_the_Way_of_the_World/

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re...gi?ArtNum=58810&Disp=9#C9

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re...Num=64773&SC=42&EC=81#C42

Check these links out and I'm going to have to disagree with Cannonfires take on WTC7.

There was no massive damage or large fires. The physical improbabilities of WTC7 and the other two towers point to explosives. This is what brought me to question the surrounding events of 911, but I have moved on to try and follow the people/paper trail of 911.

My real point is, where has chasing molten metal and explosives gotten 911Truth? It has awakened many people, but as far as revealing the true perpetrators, it has completely failed and stalled. It has people chasing their tails, and endlessly "debating".

There never was any independent investigation. The 911 Commission and NIST are a complete whitewash cover up. The agencies and people involved got medals, raises, retired to fat corporate jobs, wrote ridiculous books, etc..

Paper, people and funding is an important part of any real independent investigation. I believe patsy organizations like Al Qaeda do exist. They are invented then they are controlled by informants and operatives. Is there a worldwide terrorist network organization? There is no evidence of one.

Following the people and paper trail takes time, concentration and an attention span. Its dry, boring and complicated. Paul Thompson, Nafeez Ahmed and others lay out a trail of people and funding to start. 911 doesn't start and end in NY, or with Dr Steven Jones. That research is just a small piece of the whole.

911 has to do with stealing multi trillions of dollars and protecting the global corporate-government players involved in war, oil, drugs, slavery, military hardware/secrets, and smuggling. It about washing money through banks, governments and corporations with the use of PTECH/PROMIS software and the world financial markets.

All the SEC investigations were stored in WTC7, among other interesting offices, HUD, banks, intelligence and private security firms. The very area of the Pentagon damage, is where the Navy investigation of the missing Pentagon trillions by was being conducted.

Guys like Bush, Feith, Dov Z., Silverstein, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Grossman, Watson, Frasca are just bit puppet players and instruments to be used.

The 911 cover is slight of hand, misdirection. Hey, look over here, 19 Arabs did it. Hey, look over here, Silverstein did it. So on, and so on.

I think it maybe easier to convince another citizen of how aspects of 911 leads its way through intelligence agencies, multi national global banks, corporations, Saudi Arabia, the ISI of Pakistan with ties to individuals in the US government.

Many citizens are never going to grasp steel temps, free fall times, thermite, etc.., but explain to them the events/coincidences running up to 911, and you may spark an interest.

911 is over, but the wholesale worldwide criminal thievery continues.

Mark

If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower

Kamala  posted on  2008-01-10   6:37:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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