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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: THE CRASH IS COMING: Bush Convenes Plunge Protection Team
Source: Telegraph
URL Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/ma ... money/2008/01/07/ccview107.xml
Published: Jan 8, 2008
Author: By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Post Date: 2008-01-09 06:49:27 by Uncle Bill
Keywords: Going, Going, Gone
Views: 850
Comments: 60

Note: Plunge Protection Team.


What Do The "Experts" Say?


Go, Ron, Go!!


Bush convenes Plunge Protection Team

Telegraph
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, International Business Editor
08/01/2008

Bears beware. The New Deal of 2008 is in the works. The US Treasury is about to shower households with rebate cheques to head off a full-blown slump, and save the Bush presidency. On Friday, Mr Bush convened the so-called Plunge Protection Team for its first known meeting in the Oval Office. The black arts unit - officially the President's Working Group on Financial Markets - was created after the 1987 crash.

It appears to have powers to support the markets in a crisis with a host of instruments, mostly by through buying futures contracts on the stock indexes (DOW, S&P 500, NASDAQ and Russell) and key credit levers. And it has the means to fry "short" traders in the hottest of oils.

The team is led by Treasury chief Hank Paulson, ex-Goldman Sachs, a man with a nose for market psychology, and includes Fed chairman Ben Bernanke and the key exchange regulators.

Judging by a well-briefed report in the Washington Post, a mood of deep alarm has taken hold in the upper echelons of the administration. "What everyone's looking at is what is the fastest way to get money out there," said a Bush aide.

Emergency measures are now clearly on the agenda, apparently consisting of a mix of tax cuts for businesses and bungs for consumers. Fiscal action all too appropriate, regrettably.

We face a version of Keynes's "extreme liquidity preference" in the 1930s - banks are hoarding money, and the main credit arteries of the financial system remain blocked after five months.

"In terms of any stimulus package, we're considering all options," said Mr Bush. This should be interesting to watch. The president is not one for half measures. He has already shown in Iraq and on biofuels that he will pursue policies a l'outrance once he gets the bit between his teeth.

The only question is what the president can manage to push through a Democrat Congress.

The Plunge Protection Team - long kept secret - was last mobilised to calm the markets after 9/11. It then went into hibernation during the long boom.

Mr Paulson reactivated it last year, asking the staff to examine "systemic risk posed by hedge funds and derivatives, and the government's ability to respond to a financial crisis", he said.

It seems he failed to spot the immediate threat from mortgage securities and the implosion of the commercial paper market. But never mind.

The White House certainly has grounds for alarm. The global picture is darkening by the day. The Baltic Dry Index has been falling hard for seven weeks, signalling a downturn in bulk shipments. Singapore's economy contracted 3.2pc in the final quarter of last year, led by a slump in electronics and semiconductors.

The Tokyo bourse kicked off with the worst New Year slide in more than half a century as the Seven Samurai exporters buckled. The Topix is down 24pc from its peak. If Japan and Singapore are stalling, it is a fair bet that China's efforts to tighten credit are starting to bite. Asia is not going to rescue us. On the contrary.

Keep an eye on Japan, still the world's top creditor by far, with $3 trillion in net foreign assets. The Bank of Japan has been the biggest single source of liquidity for the global asset boom over the last five years. An army of investors - Japanese insurers and pension funds, housewives and hedge funds borrowing at near zero rates in Tokyo - have sprayed money across the Antipodes, South Africa, Brazil, Turkey, Iceland, Latvia, the US commercial paper market and the City of London.

The Japanese are now bringing the money home, as they always do when the cycle turns. The yen has risen 13pc against the dollar and 12pc against sterling since the summer. We are witnessing the long-feared unwind of the "carry trade", valued by BNP Paribas in all its forms at $1.4 trillion.

The US data is now relentlessly grim. Unemployment jumped from 4.7pc to 5pc - or 7.7m - in December, the biggest one-month rise since the dotcom bust and clear evidence that the housing crunch has spread to the real economy.

"At this point the debate is not about a soft land or hard landing; it is about how hard the hard landing will be," said Nouriel Roubini, professor of economics at New York University.

"Financial losses and defaults are spreading from sub-prime to near-prime and prime mortgages, to commercial real estate loans, to auto loans, credit cards and student loans, and sharply rising default rates on corporate bonds. A severe systemic financial crisis cannot be ruled out. This will be a much worse recession than the mild ones in 1990-91 and 2001," he said.

Sovereign wealth funds stand ready to rescue banks, as they have already rescued Citigroup and UBS. But as Moody's pointed out this week, the estimated $2,500bn in lost wealth from the US house price crash is more than the entire net worth of all the sovereign wealth funds in the world.

Add fresh losses as the property bubbles pop in Britain, Ireland, Australia, Spain, Greece, The Netherlands, Scandinavia and Eastern Europe, as they surely must unless central banks opt for inflation (which would annihilate bonds instead, with equal damage), and you can discount $1,500bn in further attrition.

Not even a Bush New Deal can hold back the post-bubble tide that is drawing in across the globe. What it can do is buy time. Fortunately for America - and the world - the US budget deficit is a healthy 1.2pc of GDP ($163bn). Washington has the wherewithal to fund a fiscal blitz.

Britain has no such luxury. Our deficit is 3pc of GDP at the top of the cycle. Gordon Brown has shut the Keynesian door.


CONGRESS IGNORING LOOMING FINANCIAL CATASTROPHE

The Left:

Speeches ignore impending U.S. debt disaster - No mention of fiscal gap estimated as high as $72 trillion

The Right:

Heritage Foundation President Edwin J. Feulner - National Debt Now $72 trillion


"Social Security, Medicare and other retirement benefits promised to baby boomers will drive the government into insolvency"
David M. Walker, General Accounting Office Chief - April 16, 2004, Washington Times, GAO Chief Sounds Alarm Bells On Debt.

"To put $72 trillion into perspective: On July 15, at luncheon event in the Rayburn House Office Building of the U.S. Capitol, Social Security Trustee Thomas R. Saving told an audience that Congress would have to devote "73 percent of all income taxes from now until eternity" in order to pay for the two entitlement programs. ...Referencing the former Soviet Union, he questioned whether Americans would still be willing to work under the future tax burden. Jokingly, I asked him whether it was time to move to a different country, and he said every country is facing similar demographic problems."

Brother, can you spare $65 trillion?


Walter E. Williams:

"According to several respected authorities, including the Concord Coalition (co-chaired by former Sens. Warren Rudman and Robert Kerrey), the Congressional Budget Office, U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow, and the Social Security Administration, the estimated present value of the unfunded liability of Social Security and Medicare ranges between $61 trillion and $75 trillion dollars. ..Social Security and Medicare will consume all federal revenues.


"The burden of debt is as destructive to freedom as subjugation by conquest."
Benjamin Franklin

SECRETS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE
On September 30, 1941, before the same Committee, Governor Eccles was asked by Representative Patman:

"How did you get the money to buy those two billion dollars worth of Government securities in 1933?

ECCLES: We created it.

MR. PATMAN: Out of what?

ECCLES: Out of the right to issue credit money.

MR. PATMAN: And there is nothing behind it, is there, except our Government’s credit?

ECCLES: That is what our money system is. If there were no debts in our money system, there wouldn’t be any money."

On June 17, 1942, Governor Eccles was interrogated by Mr. Dewey.

ECCLES: "I mean the Federal Reserve, when it carries out an open market operation, that is, if it purchases Government securities in the 167 open market, it puts new money into the hands of the banks which creates idle deposits.

DEWEY: There are no excess reserves to use for this purpose?

ECCLES: Whenever the Federal Reserve System buys Government securities in the open market, or buys them direct from the Treasury, either one, that is what it does.

DEWEY: What are you going to use to buy them with? You are going to create credit?

ECCLES: That is all we have ever done. That is the way the Federal Reserve System operates.

The Federal Reserve System creates money. It is a bank of issue."

At the House Hearing of 1947, Mr. Kolburn asked Mr. Eccles:

"What do you mean by monetization of the public debt?

ECCLES: I mean the bank creating money by the purchase of Government securities. All is created by debt--either private or public debt.

FLETCHER: Chairman Eccles, when do you think there is a possibility of returning to a free and open market, instead of this pegged and artificially controlled financial market we now have?

ECCLES: Never. Not in your lifetime or mine."



GAO REPORT: 61% of US Corporations Paid No Taxes - 71% of Foreign-Controlled Corporations Paid No Taxes From 1996 to 2000


The Bankruptcy of The United States
Note: Congressional Record

If anybody ever tells you that government can't go bankrupt, especially in America, just hand them this:

http://www.ppic.org/c on tent/pubs/rb/RB_498MBRB.pdf


In Case Of Bankruptcy

The Washington Times
By Richard W. Rahn
Published July 27, 2006

If you knew the U.S. government was going bankrupt primarily because of spending on Social Security and Medicare, and the only solutions were the following, which one would you pick?

(1) Doubling individual and corporate income tax rates.
(2) Immediately cutting Social Security and Medicare benefits by two- thirds.
(3) Immediately cutting all federal discretionary spending (including defense) by 143 percent.
(4) Reforming Social Security and Medicare by moving from the current defined benefit plans to a program of individual investment accounts, like the current 401(k) and Medical Savings Account (MSA) plans.

Many leading economists of the political right and left have concluded the U.S. government will not be able to pay its creditors, including its current and future retirees, the full value of promised benefits, unless current policies are radically changed. (Most recently, Professor Laurence J. Kotlikoff in a paper for the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, and Lawrence A. Hunter, former chief of staff for the Joint Economic Committee in a paper for the Institute of Policy Innovation, using different models, each concluded the U.S. is on its way to bankruptcy. The above alternative solutions were taken from these papers.)

Simply, government spending, in particular Social Security and Medicare, is growing faster than real economic growth. Obviously, it is a mathematical truism that this trend cannot continue indefinitely -- and when something cannot continue forever, it will not.

When governments go bankrupt, they pay off their debts by running the printing presses, which results in high inflation and perhaps hyperinflation. Under the condition of bankruptcy/hyperinflation, everyone gets poorer, including both workers and retirees. Argentina is a good example of a country that has been going through bouts of bankruptcy. A century ago, it had the world's third- highest per capita income and was on par with the U.S. But Argentina now ranks about No. 70 in the world with a per capita income of only around $13,000 per year as contrasted with the U.S. and Ireland with per capita incomes of about $41,000 yearly.

Increasing the tax rates by the magnitude necessary would make U.S. tax rates even higher than most European nations, and lead to economic stagnation, or worse. The French, Germans and Italians are trying the high tax rate route, and it is not working. Cutting current Social Security and Medicare benefits would not be fair to those who are retired, or near retirement, and cutting other government spending by the necessary amount would not be politically acceptable.

When the AARP folks, or most Democrats and many Republicans in Congress, tell you the Social Security and Medicare problems can be solved by minor tweaks, they are either ignorant or lying. Most AARP members are at retirement age. If you look at the AARP position on Social Security and Medicare reform, you can only conclude these people don't really care about their grandchildren.

Fortunately, if Congress acts quickly, there is a relatively painless way out, which will avoid the U.S. going the way of Argentina (and France). It involves both tax and entitlement reforms. Tax reform means either moving to a sales tax or flat tax system in which taxes on capital are removed. Such reform will increase both capital and labor, thus increasing productivity growth. Entitlement reform means moving from the current pay-as-you-go defined benefit systems for Social Security and Medicare to defined contribution systems with individual retirement and medical accounts, as most private companies have been forced to do.

The transition to individual accounts will entail some transition costs that can be covered through some temporary increase in government borrowing and/or sales of government assets such as federal land (the federal government owns more than 40 percent of the land in the U.S.).

Serious and responsible people both right and left understand the national debate over the defined contribution plans should be about the size and the extent of government versus individual control. This debate is not happening -- to the necessary degree to get reform -- because most Americans still do not understand the magnitude of the problem (as shown by the polls). There is also no need to reduce the real promised benefits to current and near-retirees -- but only if Congress acts soon.

The Bush administration made a strategic mistake by failing to educate the American people to the nature and extent of the problem before launching its partial solution. Given the irresponsibility and the inability of much of the political class and media to explain the real problem and lead the country to the solution, private parties will have to do it. The only salvation is for well motivated individuals to invest the time and resources to do the necessary educational effort -- or in a few decades the U.S. will look like Argentina.

Richard W. Rahn is director general of the Center for Global Economic Growth, a project of the FreedomWorks Foundation.


"With the decline of society begins, indeed, the bellum omnium in omnia war of all against all, which some philosophers observing to be so general in this world, have mistaken it for the natural, instead of the abusive state of man. And the fore horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression."
Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816. ME 15:40 (3 images)

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#1. To: christine (#0)

Ron Paul Video

Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation

Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”

Uncle Bill  posted on  2008-01-09   8:46:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Uncle Bill (#0)

"Social Security, Medicare and other retirement benefits promised to baby boomers will drive the government into insolvency" David M. Walker, General Accounting Office Chief - April 16, 2004, Washington Times, GAO Chief Sounds Alarm Bells On Debt.

No, bogus wars are what has driven the government into insolvency.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2008-01-09   8:58:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: RidinShotgun, Uncle Bill (#2)

"Social Security, Medicare and other retirement benefits promised to baby boomers will drive the government into insolvency" David M. Walker, General Accounting Office Chief - April 16, 2004, Washington Times, GAO Chief Sounds Alarm Bells On Debt.

No, bogus wars are what has driven the government into insolvency.

That bogus wars have contributed significantly to America's debt crisis cannot be debated. However, the abject inability of the federal government to fulfill fiscally insane promises/programs as well cannot be discounted as a major factor.

The bottom line is that the federal government has spent this country into financial oblivion--in several ways.

They are very of afraid of Ron Paul. Good.

wbales  posted on  2008-01-09   9:24:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: wbales (#3)

That bogus wars have contributed significantly to America's debt crisis cannot be debated. However, the abject inability of the federal government to fulfill fiscally insane promises/programs as well cannot be discounted as a major factor.

The bottom line is that the federal government has spent this country into financial oblivion--in several ways.

You are correct, however IF the social security paid into the federal government by workers had been held in a separate fund, as was promised, that alone would not have bankrupted this country. Matter of fact, the government was bankrupt long before SS and welfare programs were twinkles in uncle sam's eye.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2008-01-09   9:29:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: RidinShotgun, wbales (#4)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-01-09   10:44:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: ghostdogtxn (#5)

If people hadn't gotten so distracted by baubles and bangles and big mortgages and stayed with traditional methods of caring for their elders ... by themselves ... social security and such "assistance" would have died a bornin'. Now its boot granny into the warehouse and accuse our leaders of being cold and uncaring. Besides, it costs the taxpayer one hell of a lot more to take care of granny than it would cost any individual to care for her. WE let that happen.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2008-01-09   11:03:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: RidinShotgun (#6)

My parents cared for three out of four of their parents during the 1940s. There were no homes for the elderly that I recall. We cared for two out of three of our parents.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-01-09   11:09:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Cynicom (#7)

Good for you!! My grandmother lived with us until she died when I was a child and its hard to think what all I would have missed if she hadn't been there. But I know it's a hard row to hoe because I did it with my own parents.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2008-01-09   11:17:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: RidinShotgun (#6)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-01-09   11:20:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: RidinShotgun (#2) (Edited)

Bogus wars are the result of the fiat dollar.

Live free or die.

angle  posted on  2008-01-09   11:24:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: ghostdogtxn (#5)

If the decline of the dollar is seen in this sense as deliberate sabotage, doesn't the present policy of the Fed in collusion with the government make a lot more sense?

It's no doubt deliberate.

Live free or die.

angle  posted on  2008-01-09   11:32:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Uncle Bill (#0)

Keywords: Going, Going, Gone

The talking heads said the concerns about the economy helped Hillary because the sheeple remember the Clinton years with fondness.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
The Revolution will not be televised!

robin  posted on  2008-01-09   11:33:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: angle (#10)

Bogus wars are the result of the fiat dollar.

They are part of a vicious circle that seems neverending. I think we could snip one section of that circle like a ribbon if we wanted to and straighten it all out, but we won't.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2008-01-09   11:42:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: ghostdogtxn (#9)

None of my grandparents or parents are going to have to rely on SS, I guarandamntee ya.

You have to be careful because the medical establishment will do all it can to force you into putting them into a care facility.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2008-01-09   11:46:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: RidinShotgun (#14) (Edited)

the medical establishment will do all it can to force you into putting them into a care facility.

They're thinking it'll be like publik edjewkashun...you'll need them to authorize a home care exemption. Like the TSA people, only more edjewkated.

Live free or die.

angle  posted on  2008-01-09   12:04:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: robin (#12)

the Clinton years with fondness

Yeah, kinda like the casinos...they give ya back a bit more of your money with a meal before they hose ya but good.

Live free or die.

angle  posted on  2008-01-09   12:06:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: RidinShotgun (#13)

It's collapsing under its own weight. What can we do in the meantime?

Live free or die.

angle  posted on  2008-01-09   12:11:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: angle (#15)

Its kind of that way already. And just like homeschooling, its getting to the point where you have to prove your "ability", to bigdaddieos satisfaction, before you can teach your own kids. Can't have you abusing gramma or the kiddies, ya know, they're better at it.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2008-01-09   12:12:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: angle (#17)

What can we do in the meantime?

I don't know what we can do except to take NOTHING they say as evidence of anything and to act according to what we believe is best.

RidinShotgun  posted on  2008-01-09   12:14:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: christine, Zipporah (#19)

Real budget deficit: $4 trillion
"It's only a matter of time until the public realizes that the government is truly bankrupt and no taxes are being held in reserve to pay in the future the Social Security and Medicare benefits taxpayers are earning today. The federal government is 'bankrupt.' In a post-Enron world, if the federal government were a corporation such as General Motors, the president and senior Treasury officers would be in federal penitentiary,"


The following was 1984. Think how much worse it is now.

THE GRACE COMMISSION
"100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government."

Reagan, utililizing Peter Grace, probably gave us the best, and only, close look at what is really going on. Back in 1984 and before, every tax dollar stolen from us goes to pay the international banking cabal interest on the debt. That simply means we are BORROWING EVERY DIME that goes to EVERY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PROGRAM each and every day. I knew the country was over that long ago. If the government continues to spend more than it steals from us, I will say with 100% certainty that the Federal Government will go broke. Also, our borrowing power will fade away. It will then be all over, except the riots, anarchy, martial law, dictatorship, slavery, serfdom, and death.

Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation

Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”

Uncle Bill  posted on  2008-01-09   16:33:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: robin (#12)

"The talking heads said the concerns about the economy helped Hillary because the sheeple remember the Clinton years with fondness."

I bet the talking heads didn't mention the following and the sheeple have never heard of it. 8-)

$3,400,000,000,000 (Trillion) of Taxpayers' Money Is Missing

THE WAR ON WASTE - Rumsfeld Says Pentagon Can't Find 2.3 Trillion Dollars

Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation

Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”

Uncle Bill  posted on  2008-01-09   18:59:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Uncle Bill (#21)

Didn't Rums announce that on Set.10, 2001?

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2008-01-09   19:06:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: tom007 (#22)

Didn't Rums announce that on Set.10, 2001?

Yes. Late in the afternoon of September 10th. Just UNCANNY timing, wasn't it? Almost as if he had some notion that perhaps something would be happening the next day that would blow that story right off the headlines and back onto page 43...

Gold and silver are REAL money, paper is but a promise.

Elliott Jackalope  posted on  2008-01-09   19:10:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: tom007 (#22)

Yep

Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation

Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”

Uncle Bill  posted on  2008-01-09   19:22:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Uncle Bill (#24)

_______  posted on  2008-01-09   19:23:59 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: RidinShotgun (#4)

These guys will be used tomorrow.

Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation

Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”

Uncle Bill  posted on  2008-01-21   17:28:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Uncle Bill, Cynicom, iconoclast, FOH (#26)

We need Ron Paul's wisdom and like minded intellectuals right now.

buckeye  posted on  2008-01-21   17:30:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Uncle Bill (#0)

The government should just declare bankruptcy and get it over with.

Kittens aren't biscuits just because a cat gives birth in an oven.

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-01-21   17:39:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: YertleTurtle (#28)

Turtle...

That very thing has long been in government planning, long long ago. This is just posted elsewhere...

In Fiscal Year 2006, the U. S. Government spent $406 Billion of your money on interest payments* to the holders of the National Debt.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-01-21   17:44:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: buckeye (#27)

"We need Ron Paul's wisdom and like minded intellectuals right now."

Absolutely, I agree.

Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation

Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”

Uncle Bill  posted on  2008-01-21   17:51:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Uncle Bill, buckeye (#30)

"We need Ron Paul's wisdom and like minded intellectuals right now."

Too late gentlemen, the horse is out of the barn, the barn is burning and there is no insurance.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-01-21   17:53:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: YertleTurtle (#28)

The government should just declare bankruptcy and get it over with.

True, but if spoken, they just throw you in prison.

Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation

Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”

Uncle Bill  posted on  2008-01-21   17:54:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Uncle Bill (#30)

What would Ron Paul do as President? What should Congress do?

buckeye  posted on  2008-01-21   17:55:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Cynicom (#31)

"Too late gentlemen"

Yeah, I agree with that too. I'll still be doing whatever I can personally for Ron Paul, but it is, too late, and it has been for some time. I'm real stubborn though, and never give up. I guess it's a family curse or something.

Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation

Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”

Uncle Bill  posted on  2008-01-21   17:56:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: buckeye (#33)

Perhaps you should pose the question this way..What would President Paul HAVE to do?

Cynicom  posted on  2008-01-21   17:58:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Uncle Bill (#34)

I'm real stubborn though, and never give up. I guess it's a family curse or something.

I am in to the end with Paul...The alternative is too ugly to accept.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-01-21   18:00:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Cynicom (#36)

He's going to have more Americans asking themselves if he might just be the right candidate after tomorrow.

buckeye  posted on  2008-01-21   18:01:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: buckeye (#37)

He's going to have more Americans asking themselves if he might just be the right candidate after tomorrow.

Some of our hi flying 4um investors just may be willing to look outside of Wall St. into the real world.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-01-21   18:02:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: buckeye (#33)

I believe we both have a good idea on what he would like to do. And Congress would not approve of any of it. Thus, I concluded some time ago, I would accept Ron Paul vetoing every thing those bastards did for at least one term, unless they try to impeach him, or worse, kill him. I still remember one black congressman in 1994 in the House of Representaives, during the government shutdown, screaming on the House floor: They're coming for the children, they're coming for the children, we will be in poverty everlasting if they get their way, you, I will not have a life, My God, they are coming for the children. The individual socialist trough slurpers and corporate parasites would scream like a scalded pig, but maybe Americans would begin the long process of actually becoming serious about the state of the government. But in reality, this federal government is going to collapse, and as I see it, under the current circumstances, the current culture, and the apathy and ignorance of the American people, not to mention just the scientific and mathmatical calculations of the staggering debt numbers with interest, our country, or, well, our federal government is going to collapse.

Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation

Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”

Uncle Bill  posted on  2008-01-21   18:11:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Uncle Bill (#39)

But in reality, this federal government is going to collapse, and as I see it, under the current circumstances, the current culture, and the apathy and ignorance of the American people, not to mention just the scientific and mathmatical calculations of the staggering debt numbers with interest, our country, or, well, our federal government is going to collapse.

The question is when, in chaos and blood, or long drawn out misery for the masses.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-01-21   18:14:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Uncle Bill (#39)

Declare the federal reserve null and void.
Link present dollars to their exact gold price.
Immediately inventory and safeguard the gold we should have, if we still have it.
Give the order to ship every troop home from every corner of the planet.
Tell OPEC and the Asians "we'll get back to you, but we will pay."
Dismantle 95% of the federal government by order.
One more thing: offer homesteading to Americans who can leave their foreclosures and hold a claim in several major regions of our national parks.

I don't know what Ron Paul would do about the home owner foreclosure crisis. Most of the solutions that others are proposing are collectivist.

buckeye  posted on  2008-01-21   18:17:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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