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(s)Elections
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Title: Diebold Voting Machine Failures Found Across State During New Hampshire Primary
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5553#more-5553
Published: Jan 13, 2008
Author: Dori Smith of Talk Nation Radio
Post Date: 2008-01-13 08:42:28 by angle
Keywords: None
Views: 706
Comments: 38

Early research into New Hampshire wards and towns which used Diebold's AccuVote Optical-Scan voting machines during last week's Primary reveals that chronic problems continue with the company's infamous paper-ballot voting machines.

As well, the preliminary investigation reveals a great deal of confusion and conflicting information from local election clerks and a high-ranking official in the state Attorney General's office regarding protocols and security procedures for voting systems and memory cards, and how they are to be handled during Election Day failures.

All four counties I contacted on January 10th that had used Diebold's electronic machines last week reported problems during the election with the machines. Two other calls that same day turned out to have been to areas where electronic voting is not in use, where hand counts are done instead. If the small sampling is any indication, a statewide study would likely reveal that voting machines failed many times during the 2008 Presidential Primary across the entire state.

Problems with the systems were quickly revealed during all of my calls to officials who had used the optical-scan systems in Hanover, Exeter, Nashua, and Manchester.

"LHS provides back-up memory cards. But if a memory card failure were to occur during the election...they bring you another one, you just put it in. There's no problem." - Exeter, NH, Town Clerk Linda Hartson Little reporting or inquiry into such problems has been done so far by the mainstream media. Reports of machine failures in Stratham, leading to hand counting of votes after a "glitch" was discovered in the optical-scan systems used there, were buried in a local article on Primary results in SeaCrestOnline on Thursday. The bulk of media reporting on the anomalous results from the election has focused, instead, on speculation as to what might have gone wrong with pre-election polls. Little if any coverage has been given to whether the results themselves were correct as reported, or whether voting machine errors or tampering may have occurred.

The paper ballots cast by 80% of the state's voters have never been examined by anyone to determine the mechanical vote-counting accuracy. The computer counting of those ballots is overseen by a single, private company which is routinely granted extraordinary access to the systems, and interviews with a number of state officials indicate they all seem to have different understandings of what, if any, rules exist to regulate that access...

LHS Associates of Methuen, MA, the private vendor which handles all programming, sales, and service for the Diebold voting machines, oversees the tabulation of those 80% of ballots cast last week. The company is heavily relied on by town officials across the Granite State. The officials trust the company, and their representatives are relied upon to step in to take care of crucial voting machine problems which crop up during elections. They are like copy machine repair staff in a frantic law office. Little would move without them.

Yet access to such systems, and their vulnerable memory cards, has been revealed as particularly dangerous by numerous independent academic and state studies over the last several years, all of which have shown that elections can be tampered with, and results manipulated, via such access.

If a statewide recount of New Hampshire, as requested by Democratic candidate Dennis Kucinich and little-known Republican candidate Albert Howard, proceeds as currently scheduled [PDF] to begin on January 16th, any irregularities revealed could be cross-referenced to towns where machines failed. However, whether irregularities are discovered or not, voting machine failures need to be compiled.

No such compilation of Election Day problems with Diebold voting machines has so far occurred in New Hampshire, to my knowledge. Such data, combined with a top-down investigation into the performance of all electronic voting machines in general, could help to make the 2008 Presidential Election far more secure.

Of interest would be the number of times that voting machines and vulnerable memory cards were repaired, replaced, or in any way handled by town officials or LHS Associates, a company which, as I've reported previously, has a less than stellar reputation and, frequently, little regard for local election laws.

Additionally, new information concerning the criminal background of a senior LHS executive has also recently been unearthed, adding to concerns about the company which has nearly complete control over every aspect of 80% of New Hampshire's votes. It is unclear whether the New Hampshire Secretary of State or those of any of the other states across New England --- where LHS also serves as Diebold's sole vendor and service provider --- are aware of that particular aspect of the company's background.

Last-minute repairs and replacements made to voting machines by LHS in advance of, or during, elections are prime opportunities for fraud, a time when the systems are in their most vulnerable state. A now-infamous hack of the exact same machine used last week across New Hampshire in its Primary was seen in HBO's Hacking Democracy (video of hack here). The hack in Leon County, Florida, in late 2005, is seen as completely flipping the results of a mock election such that only a manual hand-count of the paper ballots would reveal the tampering that had been done to the system's memory cards.

There are no routine audits or spot-checks of the state's paper ballots of the sort that would protect against the hack described above.

Total Access for LHS Associates

Given the sensitive vulnerability of these systems, it's troubling that in New Hampshire last week, reports indicate that LHS employees had regular access to memory cards and voting machines, and even replaced them during the course of the day as failures occurred.

Officials I spoke with in New Hampshire were unclear whether LHS was working under any strict written security protocols other than those procedures that clerks and other officials are told to follow concerning set-up and use of the machines on Election Day. Such procedures would include the fact that town officials are told to hold the keys and open machines for LHS staff members when they arrive to make any Election Day repairs, breaking the security seals on the systems in the process of such repairs.

Computer scientists we spoke with in Connecticut (where LHS also oversees Diebold voting), such as Professor Michael Fischer of Yale University's Computer Science Department and Professor Alex Shvartsman of the University of Connecticut's Voting Research Team, recommend tight written legal protections to govern the way voting machine failures are handled. Connecticut officials continue to work on problems that have arisen since they purchased the Diebold AccuVote Optical Scan machines in 2006.

My interviews with New Hampshire officials, however, revealed a consistent lack of concern about security protocols that would restrict a vendor from coming in to replace parts or repair machines during all phases of elections.

I followed up with a few more phone calls to New Hampshire on January 11th, and when I asked the Rochester Clerk of the Election, Cheryl Eisenberg, to go over the voting machine security protocols that would apply to LHS staffers she said, "I don't think there is anything in writing as to how the situation would be handled. We rely on them, we trust them". Her remark typifies the way Town Clerks described their relationship with LHS during my initial interviews.

Overview of Trouble Reports Documented on January 10, 2008

Of five of the towns called over two days, four had problems with their machines...

Betsy McClain, Deputy Town Clerk in Hanover, New Hampshire, reported that their optical-scan machine broke down during the election and LHS Associates came out to make repairs. This same machine had just been repaired by LHS for the same problem. A deflector, or visor, that guides ballots into a bin for write-in votes versus regularly marked ballots, was malfunctioning. The write-ins were being directed into the regular vote bin. The LHS staffer was allowed to reach into the machine during the course of election day in order to connect a cable, McClain told me. Linda Hartson, Town Clerk of Exeter, New Hampshire, also reported that LHS Associates came out and fixed the deflector or visor inside the mechanism during the primary race on January 8th. This was again the deflector or visor that guides votes with write-ins to one bin and regularly marked ballots to another bin. Paul Bergeron, Clerk of the Election in Nashua, New Hampshire, oversees elections in nine different voting wards. He said he did have a bad memory card on set-up and testing and he burned a new one and provided it to one of the wards. He did so under direction of LHS with their software on his laptop. Trisha Piecuch, Town Clerk of Manchester, New Hampshire, said she oversaw all of the phases of elections including set-up and testing and the election itself. She said they had one memory card failure in Ward 3 and they used their back-up card on hand to burn a new one for that ward under the supervision of LHS. Also, one week prior to the primary race there was a problem with one of Manchester's AccuVote machines and an LHS Associates employee named Tina came out to repair it. She replaced a "chip and a reader" according to Piecuch. "I'm not sure what chip it is," she said. "It's the chip that I'd say accepts the codes and everything like that. So they [LHS] again err on the side of caution and where it looked like it was a reader problem they decided to be safe and replace both because they didn't want us having any problems."

In some areas where town officials are not equipped to burn or code their own back-up cards, the Town Clerks indicated that if memory cards failed during the election they would call LHS to come and change the card. This is consistent with what LHS staff members have told me about their routine practice in the past where memory card failures have occurred.

Piecuch confirmed that LHS employees would provide new memory cards in the event that backup cards had failed.

"Normally if we have to call LHS in, it means that we've gone through our spare [cards] and we need spares," she said. "We will break the [machine's security] seals, allow them to fix whatever the problem may be inside the machine, whether it's a reader or a chip, and then we will reseal the machine. Somebody from our office is with them at all times."

Though an official may be present, he or she would not likely have the capacity or resources to read the data on the card, and ensure it's validity.

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#1. To: angle, robin, TwentyTwelve, Original_Intent, Critter, christine, buckeye, ALL (#0)


“The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists” ~ J. Edgar Hoover

wudidiz  posted on  2008-01-13   15:00:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: wudidiz, *Ron Paul for President 2008* (#1)

If a statewide recount of New Hampshire, as requested by Democratic candidate Dennis Kucinich and little-known Republican candidate Albert Howard, proceeds as currently scheduled [PDF] to begin on January 16th, any irregularities revealed could be cross-referenced to towns where machines failed. However, whether irregularities are discovered or not, voting machine failures need to be compiled.

We'll be watching.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
The Revolution will not be televised!

robin  posted on  2008-01-13   15:02:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: robin (#2)

I read where the recount could also be compromised so as to then put a nail in the coffin of questions about Diebold. Happened to Nader in NH in 2004.

Live free or die.

angle  posted on  2008-01-13   15:07:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: angle, wudidiz (#3)

I read where the recount could also be compromised so as to then put a nail in the coffin of questions about Diebold. Happened to Nader in NH in 2004.

hmmmmm...

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today!
The Revolution will not be televised!

robin  posted on  2008-01-13   15:47:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: angle (#3)

I read where the recount could also be compromised

of course, because they've still got control of the end machine.

christine  posted on  2008-01-13   15:48:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: christine, angle (#5)

I read where the recount could also be compromised

of course, because they've still got control of the end machine.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-01-13   15:52:54 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: wudidiz. The Thread (#1)

Visiting with a prospective tenant this afternoon, the conversation turned to politics and the election, and this fella, and everyone he knows, will be voting for Dr.Paul.

Fraud is the only thing that can stop RP...

Join the Ron Paul Revolution
Freedom*Peace*Prosperity

Lod  posted on  2008-01-13   16:07:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: christine, twentytwelve, james deffenbach (#5)

Bev harris has been on Dr Katherine Albrecht's show several times last week. have you listened to her show on WTPRN? It's one of my favorite radio shows. she's great. I will often listen on the cell phone via their call-in line, when driving or walking the dog, etc. their call in listen line is 512-485-9010. the good thing is most cell phones have free calls before 9 and after 9, and on weekends. Dr Albrecht's show comes on at 7-9 am Pacific time weekdays. her site is SPYCHIPS.COM

"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2008-01-13   16:09:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: lodwick (#7)

I met several new friends this week by wearing my RON PAUL 08 botton. it's small, but people notice it and strike up conversations. i would never have known they were Paul supporters otherwise. One couple i met at church last week after the wife saw my button. now we are gonna distribute CATHOLICS FOR RON PAUL material outside (on the public sidewalk) after Mass, on our own initiative -since church's do not endorse candidates it's merely us doing it. and no one can stop us. ;-) they also had not heard of CATHOLICS FOR RON PAUL. Thomas Woods, Joe Sobran, among others write for the site. They have pdf's to download and distribute.

"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2008-01-13   16:14:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Artisan, christine, , james deffenbach, Original_Intent (#8)

Bev harris has been on Dr Katherine Albrecht's show several times last week. have you listened to her show on WTPRN? It's one of my favorite radio shows. she's great. I will often listen on the cell phone via their call-in line, when driving or walking the dog, etc. their call in listen line is 512-485-9010. the good thing is most cell phones have free calls before 9 and after 9, and on weekends. Dr Albrecht's show comes on at 7-9 am Pacific time weekdays. her site is SPYCHIPS.COM

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-01-13   16:19:49 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Artisan (#9)

Nice work (if wearing gear or a button can be called 'work') and thanks for the information.

Do we know if there's a 'SexTradeWorkersforRonPaul' website up yet? Is there any identifiable group of folks who are not for Dr.Paul?

Join the Ron Paul Revolution
Freedom*Peace*Prosperity

Lod  posted on  2008-01-13   16:26:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Artisan (#8)

Bev harris has been on Dr Katherine Albrecht's show several times last week. have you listened to her show on WTPRN?

I don't think I have ever heard her.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-01-13   17:04:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: James Deffenbach (#12)

she's the lady always interviewed about RFID chips. has a doctorate from harvard, and she was the one russo interviewed on the RFID issue in freedom to fascism. She has a very enjoyable & informative show, i highly recommend it. free archives are available in mp3 at wtprn.com. she is the author of SPYCHIPS. she also fights the supermarket saver cards, NOCARDS.ORG . she exposes a lot of the elite's shenanigans. She exposed the fact that walmart and gilette secretly put microchips in products then photograpohed and videotaped consumers without their consent. they lied and denied it then had egg on their face later. She is a Christian libertarian lady and a true patriot.

"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2008-01-13   19:39:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Artisan, FOH (#13)

Thanks for those details.

buckeye  posted on  2008-01-13   19:55:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Artisan, buckeye, James Deffenbach (#13)


Aaron Russo ~ 1943-2007
In your name we continue your heroic fight



_______  posted on  2008-01-13   20:07:44 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: angle, Wudidiz, TwentyTwelve, christine, all (#0)

"Though an official may be present, he or she would not likely have the capacity or resources to read the data on the card, and ensure it's validity."

"Though an official may be present, he or she would not likely have the capacity or resources to read the data on the card, and ensure it's validity."

"Though an official may be present, he or she would not likely have the capacity or resources to read the data on the card, and ensure it's validity."

"Though an official may be present, he or she would not likely have the capacity or resources to read the data on the card, and ensure it's validity."

"Though an official may be present, he or she would not likely have the capacity or resources to read the data on the card, and ensure it's validity."

"Though an official may be present, he or she would not likely have the capacity or resources to read the data on the card, and ensure it's validity."

Additionally, new information concerning the criminal background of a senior LHS executive has also recently been unearthed, adding to concerns about the company which has nearly complete control over every aspect of 80% of New Hampshire's votes. (Note: It was a FELONY conviction for Cocaine Trafficing - he copped a plea and turned "State's Evidence".)

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-01-13   21:10:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: lodwick (#7)

Fraud is the only thing that can stop RP...

Don't underestimate the power of ignorance.

The U.S. Constitution is no impediment to our form of government.--PJ O'Rourke

DeaconBenjamin  posted on  2008-01-13   21:28:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Original_Intent (#16)

_______  posted on  2008-01-13   21:43:17 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: _______ (#18)

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-01-13   21:45:43 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: TwentyTwelve (#19)

--

Ron Paul: Who Owns You (Narrated By George Carlin)

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-01-13   22:20:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Original_Intent, angle, TwentyTwelve, christine, robin, all (#16)

LOL

Nice effect.

Now, my question is:

WTF does Ron Paul mean by,

"I carefully considered the arguments for and against a recount before instructing my campaign staff not to pursue it. Without a firm belief that vote fraud had taken place, and without the possibility that a recount would have increased the chances for success of our campaign, a recount would have diverted campaign resources, time, and energy away from crucial battles elsewhere."

?????????????????

He lost the vote.

How could a recount, which could have shown that he won, not increase the chances of his success?


“The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists” ~ J. Edgar Hoover

wudidiz  posted on  2008-01-14   2:03:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: wudidiz, angle, TwentyTwelve, christine, robin, all (#21)

Because there is no clear chain of custody for the Ballots. We will get a recount regardless, but there were 2 good reasons for him to be publicly magnaminous:

1. No chain of custody on the ballots. Thus ballots can, and may already have been, substituted in to ensure the recount "matches" the original reported result. Bev Harris of BlackBoxVoting.org was quite clear about this when I heard her interviewed on the Radio Friday.

2. The recount is done privately by the same people who produced the first fraudulent result.

A possible third is that the media would have used it as a way to harpoon him as being a crybaby and that it was "just sour grapes".

The recount will be done. The challenge has been registered and the money has been raised to pay for it.

We'll see where it goes from there. However, the fraudsters will try to rig the recount as well. All of the votes that were "erroneously reported" in hand count districts have already been wiped away as "human error".

However, people will remember this.

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-01-14   2:14:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Original_Intent, angle, TwentyTwelve, christine, robin, FormerLurker, Ferret Mike, all (#22)

Thank you O_I for once again helping to put this into clear and proper perspective.

I still have a hard time understanding the part about 'Without a firm belief that vote fraud had taken place...'

That doesn't sit well, sorry.


“The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists” ~ J. Edgar Hoover

wudidiz  posted on  2008-01-14   2:59:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Ferret Mike (#20)

great video.

"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2008-01-14   3:53:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Artisan (#23)

I still have a hard time understanding the part about 'Without a firm belief that vote fraud had taken place...'

That doesn't sit well, sorry.


“The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists” ~ J. Edgar Hoover

wudidiz  posted on  2008-01-14   3:59:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: wudidiz (#25)

you know how it goes., as die-hard libertarians such as Paul know, govt is inherently corrupt and evil... yet they dont ever really do anything too bad, such as false flag terra or vote rigging. ;-)

"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2008-01-14   4:08:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Artisan (#26)

LOL

I think you might be right and

I hope you're wrong.

Thank you.


“The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists” ~ J. Edgar Hoover

wudidiz  posted on  2008-01-14   4:14:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Artisan (#13)

Thank you very much for the info. I have a friend who gets those store saver cards but gets them in "unusual" names like Daffy Duck and Bugs Bunny and things like that. Give them a phony name and address and watch their computer go nuts trying to track you, ahaha.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-01-14   7:44:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: _______ (#15)

Aaron Russo ~ 1943-2007 In your name we continue your heroic fight

Now THERE was a man! We need far more like him and far fewer like Sean Scammity and Blowhard O'Really.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-01-14   7:46:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: James Deffenbach (#29)

Now THERE was a man! We need far more like him and far fewer like Sean Scammity and Blowhard O'Really.

Here here!


My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. -- Winnie the Pooh

farmfriend  posted on  2008-01-14   8:24:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Ferret Mike (#20)

Outcome Based Education, of course, leaps to mind.

Pulling back the curtain by putting toxic lipstick on a pig.

Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?

iconoclast  posted on  2008-01-14   11:22:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: angle (#0)

A now-infamous hack of the exact same machine used last week across New Hampshire in its Primary was seen in HBO's Hacking Democracy (video of hack here). The hack in Leon County, Florida, in late 2005, is seen as completely flipping the results of a mock election such that only a manual hand-count of the paper ballots would reveal the tampering that had been done to the system's memory cards.

Unexamined, unquestioned expensive boondoggles continue to lead technology enraptured ill educated sheeple and their "throw money at the problem" pols over the cliff.

Current examples .... these accursed machines and ethanol.

Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?

iconoclast  posted on  2008-01-14   11:31:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: wudidiz (#21)

WTF does Ron Paul mean

Please folks, can we resist piling on RP?

He's the solution, not the problem.

He hasn't won 10 elections to Congress by being a dolt.

Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?

iconoclast  posted on  2008-01-14   11:37:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: _______ (#15)

Very interesting:

www.jews4ronpaul.org/advisors.html3

Republicans (Democrats for that matter) ....... HAD ENOUGH?

iconoclast  posted on  2008-01-14   11:56:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: James Deffenbach (#28)

That's an option. but if you ever even once use the bugs bunny card with any ATM or credit card, bugs bunny and all his purchase history is now yours. so bugs bunny must always use cash.

"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2008-01-14   13:03:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Artisan, FOH, wudidiz, All (#35)

WHAM Presidential Straw Poll!

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-01-14   13:25:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Artisan (#35)

That's an option. but if you ever even once use the bugs bunny card with any ATM or credit card, bugs bunny and all his purchase history is now yours. so bugs bunny must always use cash.

The friend I was talking about is a very smart man. I am sure he knows better than to use credit cards with bugs bunny purchases.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-01-14   13:36:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: iconoclast (#33)

Please folks, can we resist piling on RP?

Of course.

He's the solution, not the problem.

His excellent ideas are definitely part of the solution.

Dishonesty is never part of the solution.


“The individual is handicapped
by coming face-to-face
with a conspiracy so monstrous
he cannot believe it exists”
~ J. Edgar Hoover


wudidiz  posted on  2008-01-14   21:32:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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